Seven Bombs Go Off In Bangkok - New Year Countdown Cancelled

[hammered]

Thaksin denies Thai blasts link

(from Beijing)

""I strongly condemn this act [of bombing] and I swear that I never ever think of hurting the people and destroying the country's credibility for my own political gain," he said in a handwritten letter given to reporters."

source:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6225363.stm

which was updated "Tuesday, 2 January 2007, 15:48 GMT "

LaoPo

That is an interesting statement when considering all the extrajudicial killings that went on, which he at least gave tacit approval for while he was head of the government, but I digress.

[jasreeve17]

"Would anyone buy this logic - "return Thaksin so he won't bomb Bangkok again"?"

Well...

..... to hide why is he denying he is responsible. (Does THAT logic work?)

Blaze, excellent point, and well made.

There seems to be so many anti-Thaksin folk (like I mostly am) that are so ignorant of politics and the ridiculous games that all the parties play. Even though we really cannot know, and likely will never know, the true story but I'm more worried about the army getting more powers and becoming even less democratic. Just read some of the above threads from Jai Dee, it's very easy to see the way that this is / could be going.

In a year from now, then two, then three when we still haven't had elections and the army are deeply entrenched in the new "peoples democratic government house" I hope that some of these posters look back and think about the phrase out of the frying pan and into the fire.

- The main point for me is that conflict and doubts in Bangkok can most readily fall into the hands of a military that wants to keep and expand it's powers.

Of course, I'm only a very simple chap (ask Aussietraveller or Grover), I hope that I'm incorrect in my meagre analysis and that we move onto elections a.s.a.p. Really a solid date for elections could be set now, to show the good faith of the coup leaders and that they don't want power and did what was best for Thailand by ousting Thaksin.

[cclub75]

I believe whe should pray the striking ingenuity (or duplicity ?) of the Prime Minister.

"The investigation has not progressed at all," said Gen Surayud. "As of now, there's no evidence to bring the perpetrators for prosecution."

!!!!

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=115696

He's a soldier. And seems pretty straight forward. Refreshing ! With other politicians, it would have been : "we are making great progress... backward".

Anyway : it should sound like a prediction : we will never know the truth.

[blaze]

I believe whe should pray the striking ingenuity (or duplicity ?) of the Prime Minister.

"The investigation has not progressed at all," said Gen Surayud. "As of now, there's no evidence to bring the perpetrators for prosecution."

!!!!

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=115696

He's a soldier. And seems pretty straight forward. Refreshing ! With other politicians, it would have been : "we are making great progress... backward".

Anyway : it should sound like a prediction : we will never know the truth.

It would be MORE straight forward had he explained on the basis of what evidence he was able, within hours, to 'suggest' that the bombings were committed by Taksin and/or co and not by Southern rebels/local sympathizers.

Edited January 3, 2007 by blaze

[aaaaaa]

Anyway : it should sound like a prediction : we will never know the truth.

yes, it looks like it. here is fresh addition to this point:

Chavalit criticises CNS for linking him with New Year's bombings

Former prime minister Chavalit Yongchaiyudh lashed out at the Council for National Security (CNS) on Wedensday for trying to link him to the New Year bomb attacks.

"If the CNS is so good as to know the culprits behind the bombing, then why not arrest them all?" he asked, challenging authorities to issue an arrest warrant against him.

Chavalit made the acerbic remarks accusing the CNS for portraying him as a scapegoat for its incompetence to identify the real culprits behind the explosions.

"(CNS assistant secretary) Saprang Kalayanamitr claimed he already had pertinent information on the bombing, but he failed to take any action. This is gross incompetence," he said.

He said the CNS should examine among its ranks if it truly wanted to solve the case, alluding to speculation that the military had staged the bombing in order to justify its grab for power.

Younger military officers were inexperienced although they tried to act as if they knew everything, he said.

Even foreigners knew that the bomb attacks were an insider's job as rival Thais sought to destroy one another, he said.

when he was shown on TV and saying these things - he's been so emotional that he looked like almost crying.

he also said that he has evidence - who realy did it.

another thing not mentioned in the article above but was in his TV interview - he has chalenged officials, saying something like : "are you afraid that truth will surface?" also he suggested - police in Bkk has a lot of cameras for traffic control, why not show it? there were at least 8 cameras... reporter said - they are spoiled / damaged. Chavailt retorted: ALL of them, at the very same time or what?

[Gary A]

quote]

Being OLDER and speak VERY good English does not equate good logic and reasoning. We all know look can be deceiving. Just to point that out. It really depends who you are talking to.

I used the word astute because it has been quite a while since a Thai has impressed me with his knowlege of world politics including GW Bush, Iraq and the muslim problems. I was interested enough to try to buy him a beer and disappointed that he refused it. Anyways, it was just his opinion. I enjoyed talking with him about a variety of subjects.

[Plus]

If only new elections could solve Thailand's problems.... In fact all the recent problems started with elections as some very uncsrupulous people taken full advantage of them and no one could stop them from making complete mockery of democracy.

If elections worked we woldn't have generals running the country.

I can't help remembering Lee Kuang Yew advice that Thailand's population is simply not ready for democracy (without strong middle class).

The idea that Democrats are behind bombing spree in Bangkok is beyond ridiculous. That well dressed gentleman is a dangerous fellow if he knowingly spreads this kind of bullshit.

Perhaps the latest episode backfired on TRT the same way as the car bomb plot did.

Smart people do not bomb their own country, only desperate people, or extremely sinister people do that. The act itself is very unThai, but there's one another completely un-Thai thing that Thaksing and TRT were accused of - the forth reason.

[aaaaaa]

army getting more powers and becoming even less democratic. Just read some of the above threads from Jai Dee, it's very easy to see the way that this is / could be going.

it has been all over the local media (newpapers, TV etc) - discussions about this matter. the common opinion circulating nowdays and widely discussed in this or that form, directly or indirectly, that Thailand is encreasingly becoming more like Commie style state. which I doubt - perhaps more like Myanmar style.

[Plus]

Do they say this kind of things about their government in China, or Myanmar? I thought not.

[cclub75]

he also said that he has evidence - who realy did it.

It's in their genes...

I mean : on one hand Chavalit critizes CNS for having said "we know"... But Chavalit does the same !

If he has "evidences"... well show them !

[blaze]

"The idea that Democrats are behind bombing spree in Bangkok is beyond ridiculous. That well dressed gentleman is a dangerous fellow if he knowingly spreads this kind of bullshit.

Perhaps the latest episode backfired on TRT the same way as the car bomb plot did."

But not dangerous if he spreads the above?

Correct me if I'm wrong but has it been shown that the car bomb plot was NOT genuine? Has it been shown that elements in the army were NOT hostile to Taksin? Has it been shown that the 'hapless chauffer' had no relationship at all to people who detested Taksin? Has it been shown that the army would gain NO benefit from having Taksin blowed up? Has it been shown that the army would NOT step in to a power vaccuum created by an absent (or dead) PM?

[khunbill]

Update:

Seven Bombs Rock Bangkok, Kill two

BANGKOK: -- Seven explosives went off almost simultaneously in Bangkok, injuring at least 20 people as the revellers were about to start celebrating the New Year's eve.

I can't wait to hear from the jealous America haters as to why the USA and Bush are responsible for the bombing. Circular reasoning, rumour, conspiracy theorists, time to gear up and throw enough at the wall to see what sticks.

[Plus]

Correct me if I'm wrong but has it been shown that the car bomb plot was NOT genuine? Has it been shown that elements in the army were NOT hostile to Taksin? Has it been shown that the 'hapless chauffer' had no relationship at all to people who detested Taksin? Has it been shown that the army would gain NO benefit from having Taksin blowed up? Has it been shown that the army would NOT step in to a power vaccuum created by an absent (or dead) PM?

I don't quite follow you - are you saying that the car bomb plot WAS genuine? It's a bit too late to discuss now, but where were you when people were having a field day with all the loose ends in that story right here, on TV. Like how they changed the story from "wires and circtuits lying in the trunk" to "ready to go off at the push of a button".

General consensus is that Thaksin made it up to elicit sympathy to himself.

Are you going to revise that now?

[aaaaaa]

I can't wait to hear from the jealous America haters as to why the USA and Bush are responsible for the bombing. Circular reasoning, rumour, conspiracy theorists, time to gear up and throw enough at the wall to see what sticks.

now, this is a real TROLLING, dude ! you might get a "holiday" for that

[londonthai]

maybe not here - but the usa government is responsible for 99% of bombs and milions of people dieing every year because of it policies. Don't hate america - hate the oppressive state

[Gary A]

maybe not here - but the usa government is responsible for 99% of bombs and milions of people dieing every year because of it policies. Don't hate america - hate the oppressive state

Actually it was the British who are responsible for bombings. They were an overwhelming force and the IRA retaliated by developing terrorist tactics and teaching the world that bombing was effective against superior forces. Anyway you look at it, bombings and the killing of innocent people is the action of lunatics regardless of where they come from.

[younghusband]

If only new elections could solve Thailand's problems.... In fact all the recent problems started with elections as some very uncsrupulous people taken full advantage of them and no one could stop them from making complete mockery of democracy.

If elections worked we woldn't have generals running the country.

I can't help remembering Lee Kuang Yew advice that Thailand's population is simply not ready for democracy (without strong middle class).

The idea that Democrats are behind bombing spree in Bangkok is beyond ridiculous. That well dressed gentleman is a dangerous fellow if he knowingly spreads this kind of bullshit.

Perhaps the latest episode backfired on TRT the same way as the car bomb plot did.

Smart people do not bomb their own country, only desperate people, or extremely sinister people do that. The act itself is very unThai, but there's one another completely un-Thai thing that Thaksing and TRT were accused of - the forth reason.

Elections do not solve all the problems by any means, whether in Thailand or anywhere else.What elections do when conducted reasonably fairly is to give the people as a whole a voice as well as legitimising the operations of government.This is completely absent in THailand at the moment.Chris Baker, the locally based historian and very far from being sympathetic to the last PM, estimates that Thaksin still has the support of about 55% of the people of Thailand.I'm not sure how he arrived at this figure but its a working estimate that is more reliable than some of the wilder estimates bandied around by others.

The problem is following on from Thaksin's majority support is that it places all the incompetence and illegality of the junta in sharp relief.These generals seized power and by any reasonable standard lack legitimacy:certainly they are not accountable to the Thai people.Sadly a number of elder statesmen from whom we could have expected more have disgraced themselves at a time when democracy needed their championship.As far as the bombings are concerned I have a completely open mind. I would really suggest speculation be muted until there is some harder evidence available (although I would have to agree your comment on the Democrats).One group that has not been mention is the disaffected Bangkok/urban working class, not necessarily Thaksin supporters, but very hostile to the junta.

Thanks for the light relief of Lee Kwan Yew providing lessons on democracy.You appear not to be a historian but I can assure you that for the last 180 years there have always been those who argued that democracy wouldn't work without a strong middle class.Actually the middle class is growing very fast in Thailand and most Thais would consider democracy to be viable.The reality is that the present sad days will pass over, but I think the key lesson is the Bangkok power complex must understand that change is coming.It is at least partly up to them to decide how painful the transition will be to a more equitable society.

I have little doubt that the Bangkok power complex will use the recent unpleasant terrorism as a bolster for their own interests.They will certainly fail.What we need now is a commitment to the junta's timetable for democracy.

[chuchok]

maybe not here - but the usa government is responsible for 99% of bombs and milions of people dieing every year because of it policies. Don't hate america - hate the oppressive state

Actually it was the British who are responsible for bombings. They were an overwhelming force and the IRA retaliated by developing terrorist tactics and teaching the world that bombing was effective against superior forces. Anyway you look at it, bombings and the killing of innocent people is the action of lunatics regardless of where they come from.

Yep,and the money to support the IRA dried up after 9/11.I wonder why?

[Plus]

There are great number of countries where democracy did fail, mostly in Africa. Strong middle class is not actually the exact ingridient - it's more like a conscious and responsible voter base, middle class or not. Here, in Thailand, that voter base rejected Thaksin long ago, but they are still in minority.

Those Thais also want the government that is right, not just popular. In the West it's often taken for granted that what is popular is automatically right - you only need to have fair elections, but that doesn't always work there either. Look how popular Iraq war was three years ago, how everybody believed in WMD and 9/11 connection. Swaying popular opinion one way or another is relatively easy.

Back the point - speculations or not, but THERE ARE real murderers and REAL terrorists out there that MUST be stopped. It's not just a finger pointing exercise.

That well dressed genteman obviously doesn't care about dead and injured people, he's got his own agenda, and he's not alone - that is what is really scary about the situation right now. I'm afraind the fat lady hasn't even opened her mouth yet.

[chuchok]

There are great number of countries where democracy did fail, mostly in Africa. Strong middle class is not actually the exact ingridient - it's more like a conscious and responsible voter base, middle class or not. Here, in Thailand, that voter base rejected Thaksin long ago, but they are still in minority.

What voter base??You mean Bangkok?Didn't see too many protests in Issan......(If you can guage a few hundred people at a protest as being what the voters want that is>>>)

[Plus]

Politically mature voter base - yes, count Bangkok and urban centers, or count social groups like academics and middle class. Thaksin's base has been shrinking to uneducated and brain-washed, generally poor segments of society.

I'm not saying that academics or middle classes can't be brainwashed, but there are degrees of political insanity.

Let's not get too distracted. If the bombers don't get what they want from elections, and it's most likely they won't at the moment, there's no garantee that they stop their campaign.

It would be even worse if they DO get elected.

It's not about elections or democracy - they are killing people!!!

[Shoeboat]

Terrorism is becoming somewhat of a trend, is there anywhere left in the world where one can just live in peace without greed?

[aaaaaa]

...... If the bombers don't get what they want from elections, and it's most likely they won't at the moment, there's no garantee that they stop their campaign.

It would be even worse if they DO get elected.

It's not about elections or democracy - they are killing people!!!

all signs and analysts' predictions are - that it will be so, and that it will only get even worse:

EDITORIAL

Blasts shatter hopes for reconciliation

Sunday's bombings indicate that the battle between the old and new regimes is set to worsen in 2007.

National reconciliation is becoming even harder now. Over the next two to three months, we can expect more political volatility and possibly some violence as it will not be possible for this deep political conflict and confrontation to be resolved amicably. The stakes are very high and getting higher and higher for both, those in charge now, and the old regime. Thailand will face greater political risks over the medium term. The Surayud government will be subject to greater public pressure. The transition to democracy will be met by protests from vested interest groups. Moreover, the Surayud government can't afford to let its economic policy be derailed like the errors of the wholesale capital controls to rein in baht speculation.

Paying the price will be the tourism sector, which is being hit by the bomb blasts in the capital. The bombings might also take a toll on investment at a time when confidence is still recovering after the September 19 coup. Overall, Thailand's gross domestic product will have to shave off its growth to take into account the slowdown of business activities amid the gloomy political climate.

TRT counter-challenges present government:

The Thai Rak Thai Party yesterday challenged Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont and the Council for National Security (CNS) chief Sonthi Boonyaratglin to swear that they do not organise the bombs in Bangkok to overshadow reports of allegations against them.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/01/04...al_30023243.php

army bosses are challenged heavily to solve Souht problem, although I don't know is it ONLY in English newspaper or same kind of mood as easily expressed in some other Thai newspapers too:

Time for military to deliver in South

Armed forces have run out of excuses for their failures in fighting the insurgents and protecting the public.

Even casual observers can see that since the outbreak of violence in January 2004, the insurgents have gained the upper hand over the 300,000-strong military....

In the meantime, the demoralised military is too bogged down by incompetence and a general lack of professionalism to develop effective strategies and tactics to combat the insurgents. All of this adds up to an unwillingness to fight.

It is a disgrace for the military that incompetent commanders continue to make inane excuses for delayed reinforcements, including the fear that militants might strew the roads with spikes that will leave military vehicles with flat tyres. Soldiers, for fear of falling into traps, also never give a chase to the insurgents, who enjoy unimpeded freedom of movement. The military always finds convenient excuses to avoid putting its troops in danger. It may be true that the Thai public has never had high expectations of the armed forces, but surely no self-respecting member of the military wants to be accused of cowardice.

Earlier this month, the Defence Ministry, which complained bitterly about scarcity of resources during the nearly six years of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's rule, asked for a budget of Bt115 billion in 2007 - an almost 50 per cent increase over fiscal 2006 - and no lawmakers raised any objections.

It took Privy Council President Prem Tinsulanonda to remind the armed forces that all soldiers have made a solemn vow to defend the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Thailand with their lives.

With a dramatic increase in its budget, the military is running out of excuses not to put up a fight against insurgents. The raging insurgency in the deep South has been identified as the greatest threat to national security. As such, it calls for the armed forces to prove they are serious about the military oath they have taken to defend the country against its enemies and to make the ultimate sacrifice if it comes to that.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/01/03...on_30023142.php

all this gives a lot of doubts regarding - what's going on actually nowdays in LOS and who and why did all these bombings.

Edited January 3, 2007 by aaaaaa

[Artfullmover]

Maybe it was the country people who set off a few bombs to make a statement about their dispeasure of what Bangkok/ Thailand has become.

Remembering a lot of them came to town a while back and had a good look around and the bombs were not set for a maximum death count. They would not be that dumb to make it a full out attack on tourist either as they have seen first hand what the authorities have dished out on the war on drugs and do have a great fear the police and the armed forces.

I conceede this is far fetched but why stop only with the other rumors getting around.

[blaze]

Plus:

In an earlier post referring to the car bomb, you stated

"General consensus is that Thaksin made it up to elicit sympathy to himself.

Are you going to revise that now? "

Now you state,

"Look how popular Iraq war was three years ago, how everybody believed in WMD and 9/11 connection. "

In both cases general consensus was deemed evidence of fact.

And if general consensus was wrong in the case of WMD, surely you will grant that general consensus could be wrong re the car bomb.

Edited January 3, 2007 by blaze

[pap]

maybe not here - but the usa government is responsible for 99% of bombs and milions of people dieing every year because of it policies. Don't hate america - hate the oppressive state

I always love this logic. Instead of blaming the people that blow up the bomb lets blame someone else. Sorry the logic is flawed. The last person who can stop the killing is the person who actually does the killing yet they choose not to stop. Bombing in the name of peace. How is this different thatn what the US government does? Why not hold accountable those that made the choice to kill innocent people.

Brilliant deductive reasoning. This is not to say the US governments policies are any good but no matter how messed up the US government is they aren't the last ones who could have stopped the killing. So lets absolve everyone instead of holding people accountable for their own actions. That will make a better world. (Thats sarcasm by the way)

Cheers.

[Jai Dee]

This topic continues in this thread.

/Closed.