Donald Trump Jr. hires lawyer for Russia probes

[Silurian]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

Very one sided for sure.  But impossible to defend the Trump family now.  The truth is out.  Enough with the lies from this family.  Hopefully his supporters will wake up and see what's really going on.  Sadly, a few never will.

 

Oh, the defense is starting already. The spin on this is trying to move the story to be about Hillary. It will be shown that Don Jr. was trying to protect the USA from evil Hillary. Don Jr. wanted to help the US by finding out if Hillary was either a Russian spy or had illegal Russian dealings. This story will be spun several ways (as the administration always does) until the water is so muddied that nothing makes sense.

 

Don Jr. - Protector of the USA against the evil that is Hillary! Oh yeah...right.

 

[Silurian]

Links upon links. 

 

 

[PattayaJames]

8 minutes ago, Silurian said:

 

Oh, the defense is starting already. The spin on this is trying to move the story to be about Hillary. It will be shown that Don Jr. was trying to protect the USA from evil Hillary. Don Jr. wanted to help the US by finding out if Hillary was either a Russian spy or had illegal Russian dealings. This story will be spun several ways (as the administration always does) until the water is so muddied that nothing makes sense.

 

Don Jr. - Protector of the USA against the evil that is Hillary! Oh yeah...right.

 

Unfortunately, while I understand your glee at finally having an actual Russian in the collusion story, it looks likely to amount to nothing.

A single meeting set up under a false pretense, to push their own agenda (some adoption policy).

No info, no followup, no collusion. 

 

 

 

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, Silurian said:

Links upon links. 

 

Please stop!  It's just a big nothing burger! LOL

 

That is a very telling graphic...wow.

[Silurian]

1 minute ago, PattayaJames said:

Unfortunately, while I understand your glee at finally having an actual Russian in the collusion story, it looks likely to amount to nothing.

A single meeting set up under a false pretense, to push their own agenda (some adoption policy).

No info, no followup, no collusion. 

 

 

 

 

Hmm. So if a thief breaks into a house with intent to steal but doesn't take anything because there isn't anything of value must mean no crime was committed, right?

 

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, PattayaJames said:

Unfortunately, while I understand your glee at finally having an actual Russian in the collusion story, it looks likely to amount to nothing.

A single meeting set up under a false pretense, to push their own agenda (some adoption policy).

No info, no followup, no collusion.

Collusion for sure.  The emails specifically state it was a Russian government attorney offering up dirt on Hillary to help Trump win.  Which they said they were interested in doing.

 

A reply by The Junior clearly saying he liked it and understood it.  Copied to the head of the Trump campaign.

 

Impossible to say this is nothing.  There is no glee among us.  Disgust would be more accurate.

 

The real problem will be perjury.  Which will be looked at immediately.

[Pinot]

2 minutes ago, PattayaJames said:

Unfortunately, while I understand your glee at finally having an actual Russian in the collusion story, it looks likely to amount to nothing.

A single meeting set up under a false pretense, to push their own agenda (some adoption policy).

No info, no followup, no collusion. 

 

 

 

It does open the Trump administration to wanting to collude with the Russians. It's just that Jr. is so incompetent it was unsuccessful...as usual. It was just the first step. 

 

It's all so sordid. Republicans don't care. Their agenda is the only thing that matters. The Republicans are going to have to start losing some elections before any action by the deplorables. It hasn't happened yet so they continue to defend the indefensible. 

 

Cheeto Jesus is a disaster for America. 

[PattayaJames]

1 minute ago, Silurian said:

 

Hmm. So if a thief breaks into a house with intent to steal but doesn't take anything because there isn't anything of value must mean no crime was committed, right?

 

Meeting someone who says they have info on your opponent in politics is not a crime. Thus far that is all we have here, and all there looks to be.

The Clinton campaign were offering cash rewards for dirt on Trump.

[Opl]

14 minutes ago, PattayaJames said:

Unfortunately, while I understand your glee at finally having an actual Russian in the collusion story, it looks likely to amount to nothing.

A single meeting set up under a false pretense, to push their own agenda (some adoption policy).

No info, no followup, no collusion. 

 

 

 

Negotiating with a foreign power involved in hostile maneuvers is a mere detail... The Trump family has now given a whole new dimension to the terms "incompetence", "corruption" and "treason".

Edited July 12, 2017 by Opl

[boomerangutang]

It brings to mind Peter the Great of Russia. Peter had a son, Alexis, who Peter hated, because Alexis was effeminate (that's not the issue between Trump Sr. and Jr., but read on....).  Alexis got tired of being beaten up every day by his dad, so he ran away to Italy.  Peter sent an emissary to Italy to bring Alexis back to Russia, telling the boy, "Don't worry. Your father loves you.  All is forgiven."    When Alexis got back, his dad greeted him by beating him to a pulp (Peter was 6.5 ft tall).  A short while later, Alexis was accused of treason and executed.

[boomerangutang]

37 minutes ago, Silurian said:

Oh, the defense is starting already. The spin on this is trying to move the story to be about Hillary. It will be shown that Don Jr. was trying to protect the USA from evil Hillary. Don Jr. wanted to help the US by finding out if Hillary was either a Russian spy or had illegal Russian dealings. This story will be spun several ways (as the administration always does) until the water is so muddied that nothing makes sense.

Don Jr. - Protector of the USA against the evil that is Hillary! Oh yeah...right.

When blaming it on HRC and Obama doesn't stick, the dufuses in the WH will try another tactic: They'll say they were trying to protect HRC.   "You see, we were doing good for America. We were trying to protect the US and Hillary's campaign from Russian interference!"

 

.....similar to how Trumpsters first tried to justify firing Comey, "We did it because Comey treated Hillary's campaign unfairly, 7 months ago.  You gotta believe us.   We're really trying to do good things for America!   We would never lie to the American people, would we?"

[craigt3365]

18 minutes ago, PattayaJames said:

Meeting someone who says they have info on your opponent in politics is not a crime. Thus far that is all we have here, and all there looks to be.

The Clinton campaign were offering cash rewards for dirt on Trump.

It is a crime.  It's part of the election laws. As for your last comment, credible links, please.  Otherwise it's a conspiracy theory.

[JHolmesJr]

sounds to me like most of you should be on the prosecuting team…..what you have set up here is the basis for collusion….whether any actual collusion took place remains to be seen. Keep fanning the nothing burger grill.

[iReason]

White House aides feeling ‘helpless’ as Trump Jr. scandal blossoms

As West Wing staff grapples with the latest Russia controversy, the president is fuming about the negative coverage. (sub-title)

 

"White House aides feel blindsided by the bombshell revelations around Donald Trump Jr.’s campaign meeting with a Russian lawyer, while the president is using his relatively light schedule to watch TV and fume about the latest scandal, according to interviews with half a dozen White House officials and advisers."

 

"But top West Wing aides are exasperated by their limited ability to steer the damage control and the risk

that more damaging news has yet to emerge."

 

One Trump adviser said the White House was "essentially helpless" because the conduct happened during an "anything goes"

campaign that had few rules."

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/11/trump-junior-white-house-scandal-russia-240433

 

It's hitting the fan...

[iReason]

11 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

sounds to me like most of you should be on the prosecuting team…..what you have set up here is the basis for collusion….whether any actual collusion took place remains to be seen. Keep fanning the nothing burger grill.

 

Meanwhile,  the wheels of justice are turning. 

 

And the White House is under investigation for obstruction of justice, collusion, fraud, racketeering, 

money laundering and espionage.

 

Bon appétit.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by iReason

[PattayaJames]

21 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

It is a crime.  It's part of the election laws. As for your last comment, credible links, please.  Otherwise it's a conspiracy theory.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/democratic-super-pac-pay-trump-dirt-n648591

 

No doubt you will point out that this is a super PAC, and not the Clinton campaign directly. However:

 

"Correct the Record, one of the well-funded super PACs Brock founded, is creating a WikiLeaks-style project to pay anonymous tipsters for scoops, which they’re calling Trump Leaks.

Correct the Record, which is allowed to directly coordinate with the Clinton campaign, has set no financial cap on what they’re willing to pay."

 

Directly, or via a 3rd party it amounts to the same thing.

 

 

 

[Thakkar]

50 minutes ago, PattayaJames said:

Meeting someone who says they have info on your opponent in politics is not a crime. Thus far that is all we have here, and all there looks to be.

The Clinton campaign were offering cash rewards for dirt on Trump.

 

1. Not illegal for a campaign to offer reward for info on your opponents. Many campaigns do so openly.
2. It wasn't the Clinton Campaign that offered the rewards, it was a person who contacted a Super PAC to offer rewards.
3. You can argue that Super PACs are a sleazy business and I agree. Please take it up with the Republicans, who, despite opposition from many Democrats, passed the laws allowing Super PACs
4. Once Super PACs were made legal, everyone had to play by the new rules, or be thrown by the wayside.

 

It is however CLEARLY illegal to work/attempt to work/work unsuccessfully with any foreigners against your American political opponent. There is no ambiguity.

 

T

 

[craigt3365]

11 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

sounds to me like most of you should be on the prosecuting team…..what you have set up here is the basis for collusion….whether any actual collusion took place remains to be seen. Keep fanning the nothing burger grill.

This isn't just about collusion. And who knows what's coming next. The hits just keep coming the more they did.

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, PattayaJames said:

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/democratic-super-pac-pay-trump-dirt-n648591

 

No doubt you will point out that this is a super PAC, and not the Clinton campaign directly. However:

 

"Correct the Record, one of the well-funded super PACs Brock founded, is creating a WikiLeaks-style project to pay anonymous tipsters for scoops, which they’re calling Trump Leaks.

Correct the Record, which is allowed to directly coordinate with the Clinton campaign, has set no financial cap on what they’re willing to pay."

 

Directly, or via a 3rd party it amounts to the same thing.

 

 

 

Glad you understand the difference between a PAC and direct involvement by campaign officials the candidate's family and potentially the candidate himself. No comparison. 

[iReason]

Gowdy fumes at Trump administration over latest Russia controversy

 

"House Oversight Chairman Trey Gowdy lashed out at the Trump administration Tuesday over the “drip, drip” in the ongoing Russia controversy, sarcastically suggesting that officials get checked for amnesia about any contacts with Russia."

 

“If you had a contact with Russia, tell the special counsel about it! Don’t wait until the New York Times figures it out!”

an exasperated Gowdy said in a brief interview outside the Capitol Tuesday."

 

"Gowdy is helping lead the House Intelligence Committee’s probe of Russia’s interference in the election

and whether there was any collusion between Moscow and Trump aides. But he said he’d never seen the email."

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/11/trey-gowdy-trump-russia-240432

 

From "Mr Benghazi Nothing Burger".

Wow!

[janclaes47]

2 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

1. Not illegal for a campaign to offer reward for info on your opponents. Many campaigns do so openly.
2. It wasn't the Clinton Campaign that offered the rewards, it was a person who contacted a Super PAC to offer rewards.
3. You can argue that Super PACs are a sleazy business and I agree. Please take it up with the Republicans, who, despite opposition from many Democrats, passed the laws allowing Super PACs
4. Once Super PACs were made legal, everyone had to play by the new rules, or be thrown by the wayside.

 

It is however CLEARLY illegal to work/attempt to work/work unsuccessfully with any foreigners against your American political opponent. There is no ambiguity.

 

T

 

So it is illegal for the Trump campaign but not for the Clinton campaign.

 

Got it now.

 

 

it was a person who contacted a Super PAC to offer rewards No it was not, it was the Super PAC creating the project

 

It is however CLEARLY illegal to work/attempt to work/work unsuccessfully with any foreigners against your American political opponent. Where did they work together? They listened to what the person had to offer, and when it waqs clear she didn't have to offer anything of value it was ended.

Is it illegal to listen to what someone has to say?

 

 

[Thakkar]

1 hour ago, Silurian said:

 

Oh, the defense is starting already. The spin on this is trying to move the story to be about Hillary. It will be shown that Don Jr. was trying to protect the USA from evil Hillary. Don Jr. wanted to help the US by finding out if Hillary was either a Russian spy or had illegal Russian dealings. This story will be spun several ways (as the administration always does) until the water is so muddied that nothing makes sense.

 

Don Jr. - Protector of the USA against the evil that is Hillary! Oh yeah...right.

 

 

It is a tried and true tactic perfected by Putin in Russia when it became clear that, in the modern connected world, news suppression wasn't enough. When you can't win an argument, simply throw dirt hither and thither until the waters become so muddied that people are turned off by the whole business of discussing the issue.

 

A few years ago, I read a lengthy article (maybe in The Guardian?) that detailed how the Putin propaganda machine implemented such plans.

 

T

[iReason]

12 minutes ago, PattayaJames said:

"Correct the Record, one of the well-funded super PACs Brock founded, is creating a WikiLeaks-style project to pay anonymous tipsters for scoops, which they’re calling Trump Leaks.

Correct the Record, which is allowed to directly coordinate with the Clinton campaign, has set no financial cap on what they’re willing to pay."

Directly, or via a 3rd party it amounts to the same thing.

 

But, but, but, Hillary...

Classic Trumpeteer deflection of reality.

 

Yawn.

[iReason]

7 hours ago, dunroaming said:

JHolmesJr  seems to be the only one here defending his hero.  Surely he needs some back up?  You can't expect him to keep batting away on his own.  Far too one sided at the moment.

 

The Trumpeteer stragglers here are a stark example of the small minority  of those who support the inept one and his crew. 

 

Pitiful and very telling...

 

[JHolmesJr]

13 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

Where did they work together? They listened to what the person had to offer, and when it waqs clear she didn't have to offer anything of value it was ended. Is it illegal to listen to what someone has to say?

way too much logic can mess up the recipe for a nice but fictitious kremlin burger.

Edited July 12, 2017 by JHolmesJr

[Thakkar]

33 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

sounds to me like most of you should be on the prosecuting team…..what you have set up here is the basis for collusion….whether any actual collusion took place remains to be seen. Keep fanning the nothing burger grill.

First it was a "nothing burger"

Then a "circumstantial burger"

Now "just a basis for collusion, but no actual collusion"

 

What I see is you walking backwards into a kitchen stacked high with juicy burgers.

 

T

[iReason]

Trump Jr. delivers ‘smoking gun’ to Mueller

The email chain released by the president’s son shows an intent to collude with Russia, veteran prosecutors and white-collar defense attorneys say.(sub-title)

 

"The smoking gun, according to the attorneys, is the wording throughout the emails that Trump Jr. exchanges with a broker for one of his father’s former Russian business partners."

 

“Extremely damaging,” said former Justice Department prosecutor Peter Zeidenberg. “Certainly shows an intent to collude with Russian government.”

 

"Samuel Buell, a former federal prosecutor who worked with one of Mueller’s top deputies prosecuting Enron executives in the early 2000s, wrote in an email that the email chain "is very significant legally as it at least opens up the question of illegal campaign benefits from Russian sources, and the email is quite strong evidence of DJT Jr's intent toward Russia."

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/11/donald-trump-jr-emails-smoking-gun-robert-mueller-240414

[Thakkar]

22 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

So it is illegal for the Trump campaign but not for the Clinton campaign.

 

Got it now.

 

 

it was a person who contacted a Super PAC to offer rewards No it was not, it was the Super PAC creating the project

 

It is however CLEARLY illegal to work/attempt to work/work unsuccessfully with any foreigners against your American political opponent. Where did they work together? They listened to what the person had to offer, and when it waqs clear she didn't have to offer anything of value it was ended.

Is it illegal to listen to what someone has to say?

 

 

Are you even following the story? The Don Jr. emails reveal that he knew prior to the meeting that it was a meeting with a foreigner who had dirt on Clinton. Agreeing to such a meeting with a foreigner with regard to an on going American election in which you have a vested interest is attempted collusion. THAT is already illegal.

 

Furthermore, we only have the guilty party's say-so that nothing came of that meeting.

 

T

[janclaes47]

3 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Are you even following the story? The Don Jr. emails reveal that he knew prior to the meeting that it was a meeting with a foreigner who had dirt on Clinton. Agreeing to such a meeting with a foreigner with regard to an on going American election in which you have a vested interest is attempted collusion. THAT is already illegal.

 

Furthermore, we only have the guilty party's say-so that nothing came of that meeting.

 

T

 

42 minutes ago, PattayaJames said:

"Correct the Record, one of the well-funded super PACs Brock founded, is creating a WikiLeaks-style project to pay anonymous tipsters for scoops, which they’re calling Trump Leaks.

Correct the Record, which is allowed to directly coordinate with the Clinton campaign, has set no financial cap on what they’re willing to pay."

I'm following the story, so you say that the project the super PAC set up is not illegal then? Everyone know that super PAC's are set up by the presidential candidate, therefore represent the presidential candidate.

 

Same same but different.

[Thakkar]

1 minute ago, janclaes47 said:

 

I'm following the story, so you say that the project the super PAC set up is not illegal then? Everyone know that super PAC's are set up by the presidential candidate, therefore represent the presidential candidate.

 

Same same but different.

 

Again, even if the campaign directly offered rewards for info, it would not be illegal unless foreigners were involved.

 

In this case, it wasn't the campaign, it was the Super PAC. By law, PACs cannot corordinate with campaigns. This Chinese Wall is flimsy and a joke, but that's the fault of the Republicans who set it up. Take up your complaints with them. The Clinton campaign was following the rules. The Trump campaign, by talking to foreigners, wasn't.

 

T