Need some help understanding my water tank & pump system.

[CrashTestDummy]

 

Greetings,

 

My Thai wife and I purchased a home recently and I'm trying to gain at least a basic understanding of how my water tank and pump system may work. I've never lived in a house with a water tank and I have no clue how this thing works. 

 

I've found that our water pressure is very inconsistent. Sometimes it's fine, sometimes it's terrible (same demand - just one shower running). 

 

The pump occasionally turns on, usually when water demand is high. At some point, water does get pulled from the tank. I know this because I can hear water being poured back inside the tank.

 

It seems that if water is being pulled from a full tank, our pressure shouldn't vary (assuming the demand is the same). This makes me think the tank is being bypassed, yet sometimes water is pumped into the tank.

 

I’m hoping someone can tell me… 

- What the heck do all these valves control? Can anyone advise? I labeled them to make this easier. 

- Why would my water pressure vary if water is being pulled from a full tank? Is it possible some sources draw from the tank while others don’t?

- Is there anything I can do to improve water pressure (other than buy a new pump)? Like I said, sometimes it’s fine. 

 

Any advice here would be appreciated.

 

[luk AJ]

A is line from well pump
B goes from buffer tank to pump
C pressurised water to house
D E F lines to different locations in your house
If you have pressure problems probably the pump in the alu housing needs to be replaced.
It would also be good to see where the pump is located which feed your A line? Deepwell pump? Submersible pump?


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[cmsally]

If this is well water and not mains water there could be pipe blockages (don't see a filter).

If there is a filter somewhere or it is mains water, then probably a pump issue. Needs to be reset or maybe faulty. The pumps with the air tanks on seem to be far more reliable.

[luk AJ]

Yes line A is probably from main street supply.


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[CrashTestDummy]

1 hour ago, cmsally said:

If this is well water and not mains water there could be pipe blockages (don't see a filter).

If there is a filter somewhere or it is mains water, then probably a pump issue. Needs to be reset or maybe faulty. The pumps with the air tanks on seem to be far more reliable.

It's mains water. 

[Artisi]

 

 

1 hour ago, luk AJ said:

Yes line A is probably from main street supply.


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is it?

Edited July 14, 2017 by Artisi

[Artisi]

if A comes from the town supply, how is the town supply stopped when the tank is full?

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Artisi

[luk AJ]

Simple really...


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[Artisi]

check back thru posts, this has been done to death - there are plenty of discussion, drawings and advice to read upon.

 

[luk AJ]

Poster was asking about his particular water set up. If you don't know anything about water supply systems, I suggest to leave the discussion


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[luk AJ]

Please


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[Artisi]

3 minutes ago, luk AJ said:

Simple really...


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so where is it located - seeing as how the inlet is at the tank bottom?

And no need to be a smart arse, "simple really"  

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Artisi

[Artisi]

2 minutes ago, luk AJ said:

Poster was asking about his particular water set up. If you don't know anything about water supply systems, I suggest to leave the discussion


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seems you should take some of your own advise

 

[luk AJ]

Pipe A goes inside tank up to the top where ballcock is mounted. But ok I take your advice, I am out, just wanted to help the poster not start a conflict..


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[Artisi]

3 minutes ago, luk AJ said:

Pipe A goes inside tank up to the top where ballcock is mounted. But ok I take your advice, I am out, just wanted to help the poster not start a conflict..


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Bye.

[sappersrest]

LUK is absolutely correct  save that you are using mains water, as it looks an oldish installation perhaps it may  prudent to get a local company come to check it out.

[Artisi]

43 minutes ago, CrashTestDummy said:

 

 

"check back thru posts, this has been done to death - there are plenty of discussion, drawings and advice to read up on."

 

I was suggesting to you to review what has gone before on how a house pump system is set up and operated to help you understand their operation, once armed with some knowledge you will be able to answer the many questions you are likely to get.

 

[lopburi3]

I suspect valve D (do not see any control) is also mains line to bypass pump when mains water pressure is higher than pump tank setting.  Easy fix would be to replace that with a normal on/off valve like others and keep off unless an electric outage and pump not work - rest of time use pump and its supply tank for your water supply.

 

You can check this by turing valve B off (crosswise) and turn off pump.  If water is still available after a few minutes (to drain what is under pressure in pump small tank) there is a mains pump bypass installed.

Edited July 14, 2017 by lopburi3

[Crossy]

This is my standard pump setup drawing, I suspect our OP has something very similar.

 

 

 

 

[CrashTestDummy]

23 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

I suspect valve D (do not see any control) is also mains line to bypass pump when mains water pressure is higher than pump tank setting.  Easy fix would be to replace that with a normal on/off valve like others and keep off unless an electric outage and pump not work - rest of time use pump and its supply tank for your water supply.

 

You can check this by turing valve B off (crosswise) and turn off pump.  If water is still available after a few minutes (to drain what is under pressure in pump small tank) there is a mains pump bypass installed.

This is helpful. Thank you. I'll try what you suggested and see what happens. 

[farcanell]

A simple valve diagnostic may be advised ( l labeled all my pipes post doing just this, on both the house and pool plumbing)

 

shut A.... this should stop water entering the tank 

shut B.... this should starve the pump

shut C.... master isolation.... it should deprive every outlet of water

D is a missing area isolation valve, replaced on the cheap with a PVC coupler verses a new valve ( which isn't a real issue, as D will isolate that area if you need to work on it) as evidenced by it being new and blue... it's been recently worked on

shut E... see what area/taps don't work

shut F... same as above

this should be done one valve at a time

 

if you have intermittent pressure problems, first check how many water outlets are open ( obvious perhaps, but some pools and ponds have auto fill valves), and if only one tap at a time, then your pump probably needs looking at.... there could be a simple blockage ( rubber grommet or similar partially covering outlet?) or even an airlock issue... otherwise get a plumber to check

 

and... some taps are fitted with outlet guauze filters, which may cause different pressures to different taps, if these are blocking up.

 

good luck

[Artisi]

33 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

I suspect valve D (do not see any control) is also mains line to bypass pump when mains water pressure is higher than pump tank setting.  Easy fix would be to replace that with a normal on/off valve like others and keep off unless an electric outage and pump not work - rest of time use pump and its supply tank for your water supply.

 

You can check this by turing valve B off (crosswise) and turn off pump.  If water is still available after a few minutes (to drain what is under pressure in pump small tank) there is a mains pump bypass installed.

Just expanding on this post,

OP -  can you confirm if that is a non-return valve on line D, if faulty you could be pumping back into the incoming line, fit an on/off valve and follow what Lopburi3 has suggested. Also check valve is oriented on the correct direction. 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Artisi

[lopburi3]

I was on next page so did not see control C - just turn that off is all you have to do to confirm a pump bypass - it should immediately stop water flow anywhere unless there is a bypass.  But I suspect D is the bypass and you will still have water.

[sfokevin]

Given the OP description of intermittent flow issues and the pump not coming on all the time... I would guess that the OP's tank and pump is a retrofit... when the house was originally built it did not have a pump & tank and was just serviced by city water... but the previous owners realized that the city water was not reliable or does not provide enough pressure to the house and had the tank and pump added as a secondary water pressure supply.... so the city water and the pump can both provide water to the house... when the city water pressure is low the pump kicks on to add pressure to the system... 

 

A way to confirm this is to turn off the electric power to the pump and then run a tap... if the water continues to run you can see that the city water is also providing pressure to the house...

 

[boooker]

What it looks so far ok...now what is not there the valve between pips which purposes is that water can not flow back this is not there in your picture.

If you need and verbal explaination pm me.

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by CharlieH
Tel no.removed

[CharlieH]

Whilst the help is appreciated, please do not post telephone numbers on the open forum.

 

Thanks.

[renevanb7]

Clean the small filters in each tap, also the one in the shower head (hose). The dirt in it can cause less water flow, what makes the automatic pump goes on and off all the time.  

[cliveshep]

Sounds like the pressure switch in your pump is faulty. They are open to water at one end, which pushes a diaphragm operating a switch that turns the pump on and off irrespective of pump type and whether or not it has an air-tank to minimise cycling over if only a small amount of water is drawn.

 

Over time sediment can build up in the end of the pressure switch which then has to be cleaned or replaced, An inspection of the pump will show you wires between the electrical inlet connection and the pump motor, one from the inlet connection goes to the pressure switch and from there one goes to the pump. There may also be a toc (Thermal Overload Cutout) but that will probably be on the pump side of the pressure switch. In any event it will be on the pump motor itself while the pressure switch will probably be on the pump impeller body close to the water outlet.

 

Turn off power, turn off water feed to pump and water outlet from pump, and then you can safely fiddle.

 

These pics are of what I have installed at my own home so you can see how the pipe layout goes. I don't worry if the main pressure goes up or down, by using tank and pump it remains constant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by cliveshep

[CrashTestDummy]

I appreciate the responses. Maybe this was bad timing for asking this since I'm leaving Thailand for a few days. I'll try the things that were suggested here soon and report back next week. 

[williamgeorgeallen]

it is unlikely line A is feeding into the top of the tank via an internal line and probably has a backflow valve on it. this is a bad system and did not work well in one of my houses. line A needs to be run externally and dump into the top of the tank with a ballcock shut off. as long as the tank stays full and your pump is functional you should be good to go. hope this helps.