Bitcoin’s Ups and Downs Doesn’t Deter Digital Miners in Thailand

[rooster59]

Bitcoin’s Ups and Downs Doesn’t Deter Digital Miners in Thailand

By Teeranai Charuvastra, Staff Reporter

 

A booth selling equipment for mining cryptocurrency at Commart expo in Bangkok on June 22.

 

BANGKOK — A month ago, when it was trading at 96,000 baht per unit, bitcoin was the digital currency that launched a thousand geeks to snatch up equipment at a computer expo to “mine” it.

 

Since then, its value has steadily dropped, plummeting as low as 80,000 baht this week. Its decline has also dragged other major cryptocurrencies along with it. 

 

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2017/07/15/bitcoins-ups-downs-doesnt-deter-digital-miners-thailand/

 

 

-- © Copyright Khaosod English 2017-07-16

[KittenKong]

Money for nothing. An offer no Thai can refuse.

[edwinchester]

The popularity and huge rise in price of Bitcoin these last few years is incredible but has also spawned several fake cryptocurrencies that are pure mlm ponzi schemes. Several of my Thai friends have been roped into one of them and stand to lose very large amounts of money.

Do your research before investing in any crypto's.

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, edwinchester said:

The popularity and huge rise in price of Bitcoin these last few years is incredible but has also spawned several fake cryptocurrencies that are pure mlm ponzi schemes.

 

As far as I know all cryptocurrencies are intrinsically worthless and created out of nothing, which as far as I can see makes them all if not Ponzi schemes then at least "greater fool" schemes.

 

Even at the height of the tulip bubble you did get a tulip. With cryptocurrencies you just get a couple of prime numbers.

[Pdaz]

Tell that to the guys who bought at $45 and sold at $2500......

[NoBrainer]

Seems that we are in the infancy of a new digital revolution. It may not be one of the current digital coins, but have a single universal currency, that can not be manipulated by people or governments

is the best idea ever in our evolution as a species.

I predict that Bitcoin will become more useful as a payment form over the next decade, and as more & more merchants accept it, there will be no need to keep converting it back to other currencies, you will just receive Bitcoin for

payment of your goods/Services and use the same Bitcoins to purchase the things you need from other vendors.

 

As KittenKong above says    "As far as I know all cryptocurrencies are intrinsically worthless and created out of nothing". the same can be said of all paper currencies currently in use.

 

So really the only difference between paper & digital currency based on a block chain method, is that governments can not print money whenever they want to. It takes the power away from

governments and corporations that control governments.

 

 

 

 

[retarius]

I wonder what it costs in electricity to mine one bitcoin?

[MW72]

43 minutes ago, Pdaz said:

Tell that to the guys who bought at $45 and sold at $2500......

Its great for those who got in at the start but there seems to be a lot of speculators jumping on board now. Are we in bubble territory? Only time will tell.

The idea is great but if governments clamp down on what businesses accept bitcoin then the demand will tail off and so will the value. If more businesses accept it then it may reach a tipping point where everyone else will get on board or risk losing income to those businesses do accept it then the value could sky rocket.

[Bob12345]

57 minutes ago, retarius said:

I wonder what it costs in electricity to mine one bitcoin?

Thats a good question.

Plus, how much does a mining rig cost and how long can you use it before it becomes too slow (too expensive to run while not having enough processing power to make a profit)?

 

There is a reason there are huge mining farms in countries like China where electricity is cheap.

Not sure how Thailand compares but I am pretty sure that individuals buying a single rig and operating it at home will not make a profit.

Its a race against all other "players" to have the quickest mining equipment with low operating costs, and individuals will not be able to compete.

 

But when you ask around everybody will tell you how much profit they make.

Just as on the stockmarket, where everybody wins (or never talks about it anymore).

[Time Traveller]

Did I miss something, I thought Bitcoins was illegal in Thailand?

[Bob12345]

52 minutes ago, MW72 said:

Its great for those who got in at the start but there seems to be a lot of speculators jumping on board now. Are we in bubble territory? Only time will tell.

The idea is great but if governments clamp down on what businesses accept bitcoin then the demand will tail off and so will the value. If more businesses accept it then it may reach a tipping point where everyone else will get on board or risk losing income to those businesses do accept it then the value could sky rocket.

I think its more a question of public trust.

Like how the USD was backed by gold in the "good old days". After decades of being exchangable into gold they let the gold standard go and only because trust was high enough the USD didn't collapse and became worthless.

 

In the news you sometimes read stories about admins of websites accepting bitcoins making a run with the money which damages the trust in bitcoins. 

Or what if hackers start stealing passwords and people start losing all their Bitcoin savings? A central bank will not reimburse you.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

The article is not telling you the real reason the prices are down and that is that on 1st August Bitcoin may split in to two. If that should happen the price movements of Bitcoin is uncertain. As Bitcoin serve as the gold standard for other crypto's, their prices are correlated with that of Bitcoin. Good buying opportunity coming up. 

 

As for those who say these currencies values are based on a Ponzi scheme, I want to  ask on what is Facebook or many IT/social media company valuation/share price based on or for that matter Uber. Most assets in this world is based on sentiment/potential/hope/the future not on tangible assets. That is why you must own assets that's real/tangible for insurance/stability and fake/new generation/hype/sentiment based assets for profit. 

[Time Traveller]

1 hour ago, KittenKong said:

 

As far as I know all cryptocurrencies are intrinsically worthless and created out of nothing, which as far as I can see makes them all if not Ponzi schemes then at least "greater fool" schemes.

 

Even at the height of the tulip bubble you did get a tulip. With cryptocurrencies you just get a couple of prime numbers.

Yep.  Intrinsically worthless, but it offers anonymity. On the other hand, the Dollar is backed by the US Treasury's ability to levy taxes on individuals and companies, however the dollar offers little in the way of anonymity except in small value cash transactions.

 

Ultimately, Bitcoins value is primarily driven by criminal money launderers, and the late-to-the-party  dumb money from the retail bandwagon speculators. 

Either way it's pure Ponzi. 

[Bob12345]

7 minutes ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

The article is not telling you the real reason the prices are down and that is that on 1st August Bitcoin may split in to two. If that should happen the price movements of Bitcoin is uncertain. As Bitcoin serve as the gold standard for other crypto's, their prices are correlated with that of Bitcoin. Good buying opportunity coming up. 

Could you please explain how the real reason that prices are down is the chance of Bitcoin splitting in two?

 

My basic economics teaches me that a 1:2 split would mean no influence on the price till the moment the split happens. 

The second that happens the price halves while the total number of Bitcoins doubles.

The total value you have therefore stays exactly the same.

 

(i am not that up-to-date with Bitcoin, so its a serious question)

[rocketman777]

Bitcoin and digital coins are no more then digital gold and about as useful for the means of exchange for goods and services.

 

Apart from being extremely volatile they (both gold and Bitcoin) need to be valued in  terms of a  National Currency ie USD. in order to useful in the marketplace.

 

Those who wish to  see the wide-scale use of Digital or  a return to Gold  fail to understand their limitations on a Macro economic scale.

 

Regarding Digital, and in particular Bit Coin , these are nothing more then an elaborate scam constantly being hyped up by parties of interest. Take one look at the chart below and it is obviously a massive bubble had developed and  has now burst with the weekly reversal from $3000

 

The Chart is typical of a bubble market and to me the whole affair is reminiscent  of the Tulip Mania of 1636-1637

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

1 hour ago, Bob12345 said:

Could you please explain how the real reason that prices are down is the chance of Bitcoin splitting in two?

 

My basic economics teaches me that a 1:2 split would mean no influence on the price till the moment the split happens. 

The second that happens the price halves while the total number of Bitcoins doubles.

The total value you have therefore stays exactly the same.

 

(i am not that up-to-date with Bitcoin, so its a serious question)

There are two groups that claim control of Bitcoin and each wants to impose its view on how Bitcoin should be managed. You are thinking old school (like me), this split is not like a share split. This will be a split in the Bitcoin market which could render some Bitcoins worthless over time. There are articles about it, you can read the whole story. Although this event is scheduled to be decided on 1st August I believe that it is a good time to buy Ethers as they should not be influenced by Bitcions split. My limited knowledge tells me Ethers is a subsitute for Bitcoin and when Bitcoin runs into trouble the value of Ethers should go up not down. I think its time to put  in some money when it reach $150 to 170 mark. 

[thaibaz]

1 hour ago, Bob12345 said:

Could you please explain how the real reason that prices are down is the chance of Bitcoin splitting in two?

 

My basic economics teaches me that a 1:2 split would mean no influence on the price till the moment the split happens. 

The second that happens the price halves while the total number of Bitcoins doubles.

The total value you have therefore stays exactly the same.

 

(i am not that up-to-date with Bitcoin, so its a serious question)

Because the split itself also brings uncertainty, doubt, fear into the equation. Those things have a negative effect on value

Edited July 16, 2017 by thaibaz

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

37 minutes ago, rocketman777 said:

Bitcoin and digital coins are no more then digital gold and about as useful for the means of exchange for goods and services.

 

Apart from being extremely volatile they (both gold and Bitcoin) need to be valued in  terms of a  National Currency ie USD. in order to useful in the marketplace.

 

Those who wish to  see the wide-scale use of Digital or  a return to Gold  fail to understand their limitations on a Macro economic scale.

 

Regarding Digital, and in particular Bit Coin , these are nothing more then an elaborate scam constantly being hyped up by parties of interest. Take one look at the chart below and it is obviously a massive bubble had developed and  has now burst with the weekly reversal from $3000

 

The Chart is typical of a bubble market and to me the whole affair is reminiscent  of the Tulip Mania of 1636-1637

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The chart looks like the US stock market. Whats the difference ? Name me one asset thats not in a bubble ? Although gold have limitations, the lack of limits of creating fiat currencies has brought the world to a point where debt has been created that can and will never be repaid. The game of fiat currencies has always been to create debt to stimulate consumer demand and repay it through silent devalution of these currencies by inflation. The lack of inflation however has now caught up with the over leveraged system. Why do you think Merkel is allowing in all those dead beats. It is to create demand (they need housing, clothes and food even if paid by tax payers) and through this try to increase inflation. Without inflation wages dont increase, demand is stagnant and repayment capacity stay  the same or decrease thereby decreasing demand for new debt which lead to a spiral of the debt fueled economy. By the way the USD has decreased 100% in value against gold in the last 100 years. The value of gold is that it is the only currency thats lasted 5000 years all the others that tried to compete with it is gone. The next one will be the USD. 

[thaibaz]

"This will be a split in the Bitcoin market which could render some Bitcoins worthless over time."

Thats not really true and stateents like this are part of the problem which is driving the price down. IF bitcoin splits, there will be two "brands" of bitcoin. What happens to their value is speculative, most people expect bitcoin core (original) to reign supreme and stay the popular, valuable bitcoin, and the "bitcoin ultimate" brand to quickly become close to worthless.  
If you hold 1 bitcoin and bitcoin splits, you will get 1 bitcoin of each brand, 2 total. What happens to their values then is speculative.

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, Pdaz said:

Tell that to the guys who bought at $45 and sold at $2500......

 

They just found the greater fool I mentioned.

[Kabula]

My opinion....

 

Another bubble and a math asset that an owner can't touch and has no control over.

 

Some allege a set up...

 

Not one competent trends forecaster or financial expert with a 20 year spot on track record recommends them.

 

The large corporations that buy the most controls them all.  If sell orders start pouring in for millions creating panic, and no one is buying most sell orders that follow will not be filled until buy order positions are taken.

 

Then there is the competition against Bit Coin.  Most people don't realize there are 600+ competing crypto currencies. And a few of the new ones are better and cheaper.  It makes sense to sell expensive cryptos now, buy tokens for new ICOs for pennies and make big money.

 

Then there are the war drums beating around the world.  Try to sell when the power is taken down or cities go broke.

 

Around the world job losses are accelerating and people are going broke. More and more will be selling crypto currency's to make ends meet while unemployed.  

 

I see see them as being very risky now.

 

However, if one can get in an new ICO with money they don't mind losing, the upside in a few months could be rewarding.  But, to follow the sheep up the hill now and over the cliff with Bit Coin at the current price is asking for pain.

[thongplay]

6 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

As far as I know all cryptocurrencies are intrinsically worthless and created out of nothing, which as far as I can see makes them all if not Ponzi schemes then at least "greater fool" schemes.

 

Even at the height of the tulip bubble you did get a tulip. With cryptocurrencies you just get a couple of prime numbers.

And what of fiat currency. That's just paper printed and sold by the governments. No intrinsic value.

Edited July 16, 2017 by thongplay
Spelling error

[KittenKong]

1 minute ago, thongplay said:

And what of fiat currency. Thats just orinted paper sold by the governments. No intrinsic value.

 

Indeed. Which is why their value has not gone from virtually nothing to 3000USD.

 

There is nothing wrong with Bitcoin per se, only with the ridiculous increasing values it generates.

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, SOUTHERNSTAR said:

As for those who say these currencies values are based on a Ponzi scheme, I want to  ask on what is Facebook or many IT/social media company valuation/share price based on or for that matter Uber. Most assets in this world is based on sentiment/potential/hope/the future not on tangible assets.

 

Not so. Many quoted companies sell real services and goods, and earn real money and pay real dividends. Are FB and other such ethereal start-ups ridiculously overvalued? Of course they are. But most of the constituents of the top stock indexes do indeed show a real and definable profit, and return on average around 3% of value as dividends. They also generally increase in capital value based on what they actually do rather than what they may do one day. There are indeed exceptions as you mention, and personally I avoid those just as I avoid Bitcoin.

[KittenKong]

5 hours ago, retarius said:

I wonder what it costs in electricity to mine one bitcoin?

 

Early on it requires very little resources to "find" bitcoin. As more and more are found it becomes progressively more and more difficult to find them. Difficulty equates to more processing power and higher energy costs over a longer time.

[MadMac]

Tulip market....fantastic correlation....but it changed something. There is more value inherited in each coin than in fiat, leaving the beauty of tulips alone :)

[peterpop]

Isaac Newton struggled with the same problem whilst Master of the Mint at the Tower of London in 1690 [or thereabouts].  The attractiveness of Bitcoin is that it makes all transactions essentially transparent.  That is why Governments will try to stop it.

[vaultdweller0013]

4 hours ago, thongplay said:

And what of fiat currency. That's just paper printed and sold by the governments. No intrinsic value.

As Time Traveler pointed out, the value of fiat currency derives from the ability of the issuing government to levy taxes that are only payable in the fiat currency. 

 

The value of bitcoin comes from its ability to be a convenient form of transferring "value". Which should cause some pause, because right now a lot of the talk is around "investing" and holding bitcoin as opposed to actually using it as a means of transferring value.

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, peterpop said:

The attractiveness of Bitcoin is that it makes all transactions essentially transparent.  That is why Governments will try to stop it.

 

I believe you mean opaque rather than transparent. Governments object to cryptocurrencies because they are hard to trace. I'm inclined to agree with them. It's hard to imagine that anyone using cryptocurrencies for payments does so for any reason other than to hide something (their identity, tax liability, responsibility etc.).

[timendres]

13 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

Either way it's pure Ponzi.

In the strictest sense, it is not a Ponzi scheme. It is an abstract asset that appears to be in bubble territory.