Multi-Point Water Heaters

[ellathai]

Hi all,  reading 

Been reading about multipoint water heaters, the threads l was were 2012 threads well now it's 2017 and am in the process of building our house, l got 2 showers that l want to run independant with Panasonic 6kw heaters, then l would like a multipoint for the 2 bathroom sinks, kitchen and laundry, was wondering what help members can give me, ie brands, and hints of right and wrong ways.

 

Cheers

Bruce

[VocalNeal]

I had a small bathroom with, in addition to a shower, had a sink and a proper bath. Both with hot water. The instant water heater lived in a cavity under the sink. Began with an S if I remember and had no controls on the front. There will be a couple at any decent Homepro. 

[Crossy]

Ours are Redring by Mazuma. Each runs a shower and the associated sink.

 

These https://www.homepro.co.th/product/257576

Been in for 5 years with no issues. They do an 8kW version too if you need a little more oomph.

[ellathai]

What type of pipe do you use for a multi point to distribute around the house?

[Crossy]

Just now, ellathai said:

What type of pipe do you use for a multi point to distribute around the house?

 

We used the green stuff, HDPE I think, or you could use copper.

 

Longest hot run is only about 2.5m.

[David B in Thailand]

Green PPR pipe is available for running hot water from the multi point unit.  Generally a 6,000 watt unit can go to two points, while an 8000 watt unit can go to three points. Be very aware of the proper size grounded electrical cable and safety breaker for such water heaters. 

[ellathai]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Ours are Redring by Mazuma. Each runs a shower and the associated sink.

 

These https://www.homepro.co.th/product/257576

Been in for 5 years with no issues. They do an 8kW version too if you need a little more oomph.

How do you find the shower with this unit? Even flow of warm water easy to adjust. I'm thinking this could be a better way to go?

As in one in each bathroom and one in the kitchen.

Edited July 23, 2017 by ellathai
Forgot to mention. water will be delivered from tank via pump. If that makes a difference

[Crossy]

29 minutes ago, ellathai said:

How do you find the shower with this unit? Even flow of warm water easy to adjust. I'm thinking this could be a better way to go?

As in one in each bathroom and one in the kitchen.

 

We run it through a mixer tap, hot tap on full, adjust temperature with the cold not quite so hot water.

 

At this time of year we have the heater on No2 (about 4.5kW IIRC), plenty of flow from our 750W Grundfoss pump 1 floor down.

 

If you're one of these people who likes the shower hot enough to take your skin off at 4,000 L/s then get the 8kW unit

 

[ellathai]

7 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

We run it through a mixer tap, hot tap on full, adjust temperature with the cold not quite so hot water.

 

At this time of year we have the heater on No2 (about 4.5kW IIRC), plenty of flow from our 750W Grundfoss pump 1 floor down.

 

If you're one of these people who likes the shower hot enough to take your skin off at 4,000 L/s then get the 8kW unit

 This is

Sorry for all the questions, where did you place the unit? In the shower or elsewhere? This is all a first time for me.Do you think the same unit would be good for kitchen sink? as in 3 units all together?

Thanks 

Bruce

 

[Crossy]

It's in the cupboard under the sink in the main en-suite

 

 

and just under the sink in the guest bathroom

 

 

6kW may be a bit of overkill for the kitchen sink, depends how hot you want the dish washing water.

 

You may be able to find a smaller unit for the kitchen, but don't be tempted to use a shower heater.

 

Our build was a first time for me too, although I'm an engineer my major was Electrical and Electronic Engineering.

 

The saga is here:-

 

 

[ellathai]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

It's in the cupboard under the sink in the main en-suite

 

 

and just under the sink in the guest bathroom

 

 

6kW may be a bit of overkill for the kitchen sink, depends how hot you want the dish washing water.

 

You may be able to find a smaller unit for the kitchen, but don't be tempted to use a shower heater.

 

Our build was a first time for me too, although I'm an engineer my major was Electrical and Electronic Engineering.

 

The saga is here:-

 

 

 

[ellathai]

Thanks for that,so the shower has a mixing tap as  well which is connected to the same unit as the sink?

[Crossy]

13 minutes ago, ellathai said:

Thanks for that,so the shower has a mixing tap as  well which is connected to the same unit as the sink?

 

Yup, if you look at the outlet side of the heater (left hand pipe) you can see the flexies, one to the sink, the other to the wall for the shower (no they don't need a tap it's just how Mr Pipe fitted them).

 

[ellathai]

9 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Yup, if you look at the outlet side of the heater (left hand pipe) you can see the flexies, one to the sink, the other to the wall for the shower (no they don't need a tap it's just how Mr Pipe fitted them).

 

I'm risking being very dumb here, if you don't have a tap how do you turn the shower on

[Crossy]

Just now, ellathai said:

I'm risking being very dumb here, if you don't have a tap how do you turn the shower on

 

It's ok, we all sometimes miss the point (me included)

 

The tap I'm referring to is the one on the hot from the heater into the wall which goes to the shower (near the yellow label in the second photo) since the other end is the shower mixer there's no need for that tap, nothing comes gushing out when you remove the pipe, a simple 90^o fitting would work.

[ellathai]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

It's ok, we all sometimes miss the point (me included)

 

The tap I'm referring to is the one on the hot from the heater into the wall which goes to the shower (near the yellow label in the second photo) since the other end is the shower mixer there's no need for that tap, nothing comes gushing out when you remove the pipe, a simple 90^o fitting would work.

Now l get it, thanks for being patience.

Was it you l saw somewhere on this forum working out amps and things for someone?

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, ellathai said:

Was it you l saw somewhere on this forum working out amps and things for someone?

 

Possibly

 

For a 6kW heater you should install  4mm² cable on a 30A breaker.

 

For a 8kW heater you should install  6mm² cable on a 40A breaker (you could just squeeze it on to 4mm² cable on a 40A breaker, but if it's a new install best to go to the next cable size up).

[ellathai]

Just now, Crossy said:

 

Possibly

 

For a 6kW heater you should install  4mm² cable on a 30A breaker.

 

For a 8kW heater you should install  6mm² cable on a 40A breaker (you could just squeeze it on to 4mm² cable on a 40A breaker, but if it's a new install best to go to the next cable size up).

Thanks for all that, Can l ask what amperage you have coming into your house, Where we are building, right next door some other people are building a mattress place we see all over the area. They approached my wife, said do we want to go half in the costs of the box which would save us both money, l asked them how many amps and they said 30 at 15 amps each. l don't know what any of that means but i'm worried it won't be enough. 

[Crossy]

9 hours ago, ellathai said:

Thanks for all that, Can l ask what amperage you have coming into your house, Where we are building, right next door some other people are building a mattress place we see all over the area. They approached my wife, said do we want to go half in the costs of the box which would save us both money, l asked them how many amps and they said 30 at 15 amps each. l don't know what any of that means but i'm worried it won't be enough. 

 

We have the "normal" 15/45 single-phase meter (50A incoming breaker). We have a fairly large home but not much aircon load (only the bedrooms) so it's rarely over about 30A.

 

I'm assuming that the "box" they are talking about is a transformer and the supply being suggested is 15/45 3-phase (which should be more than adequate).

 

To ensure that's going to be enough you need to do a prospective load calculation. Let me know how many bedrooms, living rooms and bathrooms you have and I can do a (very) rough calculation.

 

Do talk to PEA before committing to anything with the neighbours, you may be able to get an adequate supply without significant outlay.

 

Why not start a new thread over in Electrical to keep the subject separate.

 

[ellathai]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

We have the "normal" 15/45 single-phase meter (50A incoming breaker). We have a fairly large home but not much aircon load (only the bedrooms) so it's rarely over about 30A.

 

I'm assuming that the "box" they are talking about is a transformer and the supply being suggested is 15/45 3-phase (which should be more than adequate).

 

To ensure that's going to be enough you need to do a prospective load calculation. Let me know how many bedrooms, living rooms and bathrooms you have and I can do a (very) rough calculation.

 

Do talk to PEA before committing to anything with the neighbours, you may be able to get an adequate supply without significant outlay.

 

Why not start a new thread over in Electrical to keep the subject separate.

 

i will do that that now Crossy

[cheeryble]

On July 23, 2017 at 2:34 PM, ellathai said:

What type of pipe do you use for a multi point to distribute around the house?

If you use a flexible S/S braided hose to connect the heater to your hot distribution pipe be aware to ask for a a HOT rated hose (nam un) most are for cold only.

as for the cold feed hose pay for quality fi it's in the bathroom under the sink the steam from the shower will condense on it and it will tend to get rusty if S/S braid poor quality,

Edited July 26, 2017 by cheeryble

[eyecatcher]

Well, now that Cheeryble has gatecrashed the 40 post twosome I will jump in and offer my support to the jeermans.

I have a Stiebel Eltron at home, and went for it simply becasue we have the same unit in my spa feeding three showers without any glitch for 7 years.

 

the latest model we have a t home has 3 heat settings 6kw/6.5kw and 7.1kw.

the 6.5 now is very hot indeed but in winter (dec/feb) i have to take it up to notch 3 to counter act the cooler water coming into the house.

 

it also feeds my kitchen sink but the water travels about 6m so it does take 2 minutes to get hot enough but bear in mind the heat setting you have for your shower will be the same for the kitchen sink (which is a disadvantage)

 

my stiebel Dca6 cost 7k but they are on sale most places for 8k. be very careful if you are interested in stiebel, most of their models like similar and the reference numbers are different here than in the west so you could very easily end up buying a shower instead of the multipoint.

but its attractive enough not to be put under a sink or in a cupboard; and of course all my sinks and showers operate with mixer taps.

 

Also be aware that the internal diameter of the green ppr pipe is actually smaller than the blue pipe so you can not mix and match fittings at all and of course you need the right heat tool to do the job in the first place.

 

I am all for British products but quite often they are waaaayy behind Jeerman technology.................and football

 

[ellathai]

Would 5 metre outlet hose be too long?

l have read the instruction book but says nothing about length

Have emailed Panasonic but no answer

 

Any ideas

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, ellathai said:

Would 5 metre outlet hose be too long?

l have read the instruction book but says nothing about length

Have emailed Panasonic but no answer

 

Any ideas

On a multi-point the length of the outlet run shouldn't be limited other than by the time you're prepared to wait for hot water to get to the end of the pipe.

 

Which heater did you get?

 

[ellathai]

Just now, Crossy said:

On a multi-point the length of the outlet run shouldn't be limited other than by the time you're prepared to wait for hot water to get to the end of the pipe.

 

Which heater did you get?

 

That was my thinking, but was a bit worried. Waiting for the hot water is something i'm used to in Aus so no problem.

Ended up getting the Panasonic DH-6GM4. (On special)

[cheeryble]

I had a Stiebel crap the bed....far from new but not super old

Replacement necessary.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

[ellathai]

Typical Thai answer.

From Panasonic

Dear Customer, No limit for outlet pipe length but should be less than 5 meters and the outlet pressure must be at least 3 liters per 1 minute