If Brits were 3% less stupid there would be no Brexit.

[oldhippy]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Where are the Malvinas?

 

They never were/are a British protectorate AFIAK.

Galtieri bad.

Twin brother Pinochet good.

 

Yours insincerely, Maggie.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

Galtieri bad.

Twin brother Pinochet good.

 

Yours insincerely, Maggie.

 

So where ARE the Malvinas?

 

I know where the Falkland Islands are not to mention the oil etc around there but the only bit that I remember about the Malvinas is when they were invaded by the Argentine in 1982 and retaken by the UK a few months later.

 

They are STILL the Falkland Islands and NOT the Malvinas.

[lungbing]

And shall remain so, by their own wish.

[oldhippy]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Where are the Malvinas?

 

They never were/are a British protectorate AFAIK.

I believe the Malvinas are somewhere close to a cemetery called "Belgrano".

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SheungWan]

On 8/9/2017 at 3:46 AM, bert bloggs said:

Well ,i had a public school education ,then Grammar school ,got my GCE,s had a very good job ,made quite a bit of money ,and voted Brexit , God i must be one of the thicko's .

should have been imtelimgent and voted rumain .

Yes. You should have been more imtelimgent and voted rumain.

[ELVIS123456]

Seems to me that these academics have (as all academics do) equated intelligence to education. My experience is that it doesn't matter how much education an idiot gets, they are still an idiot.  But the problem is that educated idiots always equate their education 'level' to their intelligence and believe that they are 'better' and 'smarter' than joe/sue average. 

 

Wonder why something is so obviously wrong and stupid?  That was because an educated idiot (or many) was involved.  When I was a lad the "D' classer became Tradies/Roadworkers/Postal etc. Now they have abolished A B C D classes, and we now send idiots to University. Many become teachers, creating what has been since the 1970s an ever growing number of educated idiots. 

 

[Rancid]

Always amuses me that those that lose a vote always blame it on the ignorance of the other side. As both sides of politics get voted in by turn then I guess that means all of the electorate are ignorant?

 

As to politicians I think it was Plato that said that those that want power should be never given it. They figured that out thousands of years ago but we keep doing it.

[salavan]

On 09/08/2017 at 1:34 AM, samsensam said:

 

brit bashing, makes a change from thai bashing i guess.

These a lot to bash

[salavan]

22 hours ago, Rancid said:

Always amuses me that those that lose a vote always blame it on the ignorance of the other side. As both sides of politics get voted in by turn then I guess that means all of the electorate are ignorant?

 

As to politicians I think it was Plato that said that those that want power should be never given it. They figured that out thousands of years ago but we keep doing it.

UK is an autocratic democracy

[nong38]

In 1975 I was asked if I would like to join the EEC, on the information given I said yes. If I had been told at the time that it would evolve into the EU that I see today I would never have voted that way. From some on the continent at the time they knew the plan and how it would play out over time but they never revealed it at the time.

I have seen history move since that time to where we are today and I now ask the question "If we were not members of the EU today but had to vote on whether we should join?" what would be your answer today be?

I was a young voter in 1975 and I consider that at best I was given duff information and worst I was lied to about the future of the EEC and the direction it was going in.

There are those who say that the EU has kept the peace for the last 70 years and therefore a price worth paying for, really?

Tony Blair gave away part of Thatchers rebate in exchange for a CAP reform, the reform never happened and the rebate continued to be lost, why should I believe that the EU can/would ever reform itself?

The EU came into being in 1999 how could they have kept the peace for 70 years?

Remember the Balkan crisis? The Europeans were not able to stop it, NATO had to do that.

The EU remainers peddle lies hoping that no one will notice and question.

If a referendum does not vote the right way they have asked for another until they get it right, democracy is ok for the EU so long as it delivers the right result. Remember Holland and their immigration policy?

THe British referendum was different, a simple question in or out and the EU did not like the result, they are going to have a big hole in their budget.

I have heard some people say ( after the result went against them) that "uneducated people from the "North" were the reason for the decision to leave because they did not understand the question, often this comes from people who consider themselves to be rather clever, rather rich and have had a priveleged upbringing, a result that has had a bad effect on their personal finances, people who did not forsee the exchange rate dip for a period. Its all a bit like a football match, the game is played it ends with a result but the losing side is still trying to change the result 18 months later.

It would be much better if everyone accepts what has happend, as in a General Election, and then gets on with making things happen for the benefit of the country, uncharted waters yes, a period of uncertainty yes but I have faith in the Britsh people to overcome these difficulties even if there is a "no deal" and to prosper in the world, for those who dont think that is the case and want to stay in the EU they can always move to a country that wishes to remain in the EU but choose wisely, when it comes to 2025 and the remaining countries have to accept the Euro or leave will have a choice to make as well then.

Edited October 28, 2017 by nong38
spelling, missing words and gaps

[oldhippy]

QUESTION from a poster: The EU came into being in 1999 how could they have kept the peace for 70 years?

 

ANSWER: The EU is the son of the EEC which is the son of the ECSC - European Coal and Steel Community, born in 1951.

The explicite aim of the ECSC was to end the centuries  old tradition of European wars.

And it worked!

It worked so well that most people now no longer see the Germans / French as their arch enemies.

 

As for the conspiracy theory that from the start Evil European politicians planned the EU to be what it is now.

Well, actually, it is the Klingons that are behind it all.

[oldhippy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Coal_and_Steel_Community

[billd766]

13 hours ago, oldhippy said:

QUESTION from a poster: The EU came into being in 1999 how could they have kept the peace for 70 years?

 

ANSWER: The EU is the son of the EEC which is the son of the ECSC - European Coal and Steel Community, born in 1951.

The explicite aim of the ECSC was to end the centuries  old tradition of European wars.

And it worked!

It worked so well that most people now no longer see the Germans / French as their arch enemies.

 

As for the conspiracy theory that from the start Evil European politicians planned the EU to be what it is now.

Well, actually, it is the Klingons that are behind it all.

 

But the EU in whatever guise or name you wish to give it still did not keep the peace in Europe. How could it? It still has no military forces, they are still provided by NATO. It had no political mandate to keep the peace. There were only 6 states at that time, Belgium, France, West Germany, Italy, The Netherlands and Luxemberg and only one of them, France had anything like a military force.

 

Those 6 states certainly did not comprise all of Europe even during that time.

 

When the ECSC became the EEC it was merely a change of name but still didn't comprise all of the countries of Europe.

 

Can you explain exactly how those six countries prevented any European war when they had and still have no joint military forces belonging to the ECSC or the EEC?

 

The military forces of those countries NATO was founded in 1949 and was comprised of the USA, UK, Canada, Belgium, Denmark, France, Iceland, Italy, Luxemburg, The Netherlands, Norway and Portugal. West Germany did not become a member until 1955, 3 years after Greece and Turkey.

 

Nato itself was formed in 1949 and the ECSC was not formed until 1950, the EEC was formed in 1957, and the EU was not formed until 1993, so how could it have kept the peace in Europe?

Edited October 29, 2017 by billd766
Added extra text

[oldhippy]

QUESTION: Can you explain exactly how those six countries prevented any European war when they had and still have no joint military forces belonging to the ECSC or the EEC?

 

ANSWER: WoooooooooooW!

 

Are you seriously suggesting that peace can be achieved by armies?

The only way peace can be achieved is by economics: make it mutually beneficial to have trade rather than war.

 

International trade will also lead to personal contacts with the "evil foreigners", who will then turn out not to be evil at all.

Why do you think differently about Germans than your grandfather?

Because the army told you so, or because you actually met Germans?

 

And please do not confuse this issue by referring to some muslim countries: the brexit vote was about the UK wanting to leave the EU, not about leaving Muslimland.

 

[Thongkorn]

On 8/23/2017 at 2:11 PM, oldhippy said:

I believe the Malvinas are somewhere close to a cemetery called "Belgrano".

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that remark hits the bottom .

[nong38]

Its interesting how things have developed since the vote to leave the EU, claims and counter claims as you would expect but all the polls since the vote all say the same thing that the people want the country out of the EU and in increasing numbers, not just 52-48 now its well over 60-40 now and yet remainers still will not accept the will of the people, there is something really rather sad about being a bad loser. In any contest that you take part in you may win or you may lose and you need to understand that before you take part, if you are afraid that you might lose and lose face into the bargain best not to take part.

I dont know what we are going to have as our subject once we leave but leave we certainly are going to for those who cannot accept the result who stand with such luminaries as Tony Blair, Gina Miller, Michael Heseltine and the like who are rather rich and vested interests to stay in the EU for that reason then I suspect they will have to apply for an EU passport or stay in the UK and suck it up.

In the end however many pages are written here about whether we are in or out of the EU we have decided to leave and there is no going back, even Jolly Claude Juncker has admitted that. No one will ever convince me differently that voting to leave was thr right course of action and the people who voted to stay in the EU, well I will never be able to convince them that they were wrong so we should perhaps just leave it at that and accept that position.

There are people who are consumed by this subject, its the only thing on their mind everyday, to them I would say you need to get out more, whatever the future holds we as individuals cannot influence the result that has taken place or the future outcome of what will happen between now and the end of March 2018, or for that matter what happens after that date so dont let it stres your out and raise your blood pressure, there is more to life than that so enjoy it and getting yourselves into a tizzy!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

QUESTION: Can you explain exactly how those six countries prevented any European war when they had and still have no joint military forces belonging to the ECSC or the EEC?

 

ANSWER: WoooooooooooW!

 

Are you seriously suggesting that peace can be achieved by armies?

The only way peace can be achieved is by economics: make it mutually beneficial to have trade rather than war.

 

International trade will also lead to personal contacts with the "evil foreigners", who will then turn out not to be evil at all.

Why do you think differently about Germans than your grandfather?

Because the army told you so, or because you actually met Germans?

 

And please do not confuse this issue by referring to some muslim countries: the brexit vote was about the UK wanting to leave the EU, not about leaving Muslimland.

 

 

Firstly please do not tell me how to respond to your post.

 

Secondly my grandfather probably never met a German in his life. he was too old to fight in WW1 and far too old to fight in WW2.

 

Thirdly I was never in the Army but I was in the RAF from 1960 until 1984.

 

Fourthly, yes I have met a lot of Germans as I was stationed in Germany from 1973 to 1976 and I worked with a German company for 18 months in 2000 to 2001.

 

Fiftly, you are the one bringing in

 

quote" And please do not confuse this issue by referring to some muslim countries: the brexit vote was about the UK wanting to leave the EU, not about leaving Muslimland."

 

Not me or anybody else AFAIK.

 

If you want to believe that "international trade" saved Europe from wars and not the military then go ahead.

 

I don't believe you but why should I care.

[oldhippy]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Firstly please do not tell me how to respond to your post.

 

Secondly my grandfather probably never met a German in his life. he was too old to fight in WW1 and far too old to fight in WW2.

 

Thirdly I was never in the Army but I was in the RAF from 1960 until 1984.

 

Fourthly, yes I have met a lot of Germans as I was stationed in Germany from 1973 to 1976 and I worked with a German company for 18 months in 2000 to 2001.

 

Fiftly, you are the one bringing in

 

quote" And please do not confuse this issue by referring to some muslim countries: the brexit vote was about the UK wanting to leave the EU, not about leaving Muslimland."

 

Not me or anybody else AFAIK.

 

If you want to believe that "international trade" saved Europe from wars and not the military then go ahead.

 

I don't believe you but why should I care.

QUOTE: If you want to believe that "international trade" saved Europe from wars and not the military then go ahead.

 

Strange.

France and Germany fought wars for centuries. Yet they had armies to save them from wars. Then they started to cooperate (ECSC), and no more wars.

What a coincidence!

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

On 10/27/2017 at 8:45 PM, Rancid said:

Always amuses me that those that lose a vote always blame it on the ignorance of the other side. As both sides of politics get voted in by turn then I guess that means all of the electorate are ignorant?

 

As to politicians I think it was Plato that said that those that want power should be never given it. They figured that out thousands of years ago but we keep doing it.

"As to politicians I think it was Plato that said that those that want power should be never given it. They figured that out thousands of years ago but we keep doing it."

 

I'm ignorant enough to not know this Plato quote - but have been saying the same thing for decades.

 

The problem is that those with no interest in power, have no interest in politics as a career.  A 'Catch 22' dilemma .

[Grouse]

You kept this thread hidden from me didn't you! Go on, admit it!

 

Well I found out! Ha?

[Grouse]

On 24/10/2017 at 7:45 AM, ELVIS123456 said:

Seems to me that these academics have (as all academics do) equated intelligence to education. My experience is that it doesn't matter how much education an idiot gets, they are still an idiot.  But the problem is that educated idiots always equate their education 'level' to their intelligence and believe that they are 'better' and 'smarter' than joe/sue average. 

 

Wonder why something is so obviously wrong and stupid?  That was because an educated idiot (or many) was involved.  When I was a lad the "D' classer became Tradies/Roadworkers/Postal etc. Now they have abolished A B C D classes, and we now send idiots to University. Many become teachers, creating what has been since the 1970s an ever growing number of educated idiots. 

 

Aww, never mind...horses for courses I guess ?

[Grouse]

On 28/10/2017 at 11:32 PM, oldhippy said:

QUESTION from a poster: The EU came into being in 1999 how could they have kept the peace for 70 years?

 

ANSWER: The EU is the son of the EEC which is the son of the ECSC - European Coal and Steel Community, born in 1951.

The explicite aim of the ECSC was to end the centuries  old tradition of European wars.

And it worked!

It worked so well that most people now no longer see the Germans / French as their arch enemies.

 

As for the conspiracy theory that from the start Evil European politicians planned the EU to be what it is now.

Well, actually, it is the Klingons that are behind it all.

Yes, correct.

 

The fools just "don't get it"

 

Someone explained on another thread the difference between ostive peace and negative peace.

 

Since the 50s trade and cultural bonds have created a positive peace with no need for war.

 

The negative peace between NATO and the Warsaw Pact was due to a stand off and that thankfully is no longer required to keep the two halves of Europe apart.

 

NATO didn't stop a war within Western Europe, we already had a positive peace.

 

I guess it requires a certain IQ to understand that! Sir!

[SheungWan]

On 10/24/2017 at 8:45 AM, ELVIS123456 said:

Seems to me that these academics have (as all academics do) equated intelligence to education. My experience is that it doesn't matter how much education an idiot gets, they are still an idiot.  But the problem is that educated idiots always equate their education 'level' to their intelligence and believe that they are 'better' and 'smarter' than joe/sue average. 

 

Wonder why something is so obviously wrong and stupid?  That was because an educated idiot (or many) was involved.  When I was a lad the "D' classer became Tradies/Roadworkers/Postal etc. Now they have abolished A B C D classes, and we now send idiots to University. Many become teachers, creating what has been since the 1970s an ever growing number of educated idiots.

Yes, Brexit offers the infinitely more elevated experience of flaunting the superior attributes of being an uneducated idiot.

Edited November 6, 2017 by SheungWan

[CG1 Blue]

On ‎05‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 11:15 AM, Grouse said:

I guess it requires a certain IQ to understand that! Sir!

It really isn't necessary to assert that anyone with an opposing opinion has a low IQ.  I see that type of comment so often on these EU debates. I have to wonder if the 'low IQ' card is used whenever someone feels they are losing the argument.

 

I understand completely why some people still want the UK to remain in the EU. I don't think those people are stupid.  I just think they have different priorities and a different mind set to me.  

 

I reckon that means I have a higher IQ than you.

 

(Joke)

[CG1 Blue]

On ‎29‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 2:48 PM, oldhippy said:

QUOTE: If you want to believe that "international trade" saved Europe from wars and not the military then go ahead.

 

Strange.

France and Germany fought wars for centuries. Yet they had armies to save them from wars. Then they started to cooperate (ECSC), and no more wars.

What a coincidence!

 

 

Could the wars have stopped as a result of the human race becoming more civilised over the years, with the West leading the way? I mean in 17th century England we used to pull people's intestines out as they watched as a punishment. These days we lock people up and give them satellite TV and Playstations.

[oldhippy]

44 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Could the wars have stopped as a result of the human race becoming more civilised over the years, with the West leading the way? I mean in 17th century England we used to pull people's intestines out as they watched as a punishment. These days we lock people up and give them satellite TV and Playstations.

And why did people change so fast in Europe? Why did the same quick evolution not take place in the Middle East, Asia or Africa?

 

Arch enemies became trade partners, made personal contacts, benefitted mutually of integration. That is what caused peace.

 

 

 

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

6 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Arch enemies became trade partners, made personal contacts, benefitted mutually of integration. That is what caused peace.

Your argument carries some weight.  But then why have European / Western nations formed trade partnerships, and the nations in the Middle East etc. have not.  What came first, the progressively civilised thinking, or trade partnerships?

 

[oldhippy]

Just now, CG1 Blue said:

Your argument carries some weight.  But then why have European / Western nations formed trade partnerships, and the nations in the Middle East etc. have not.  What came first, the progressively civilised thinking, or trade partnerships?

 

The ECSC was the grandfather of the EU.

 

From Wiki:

The ECSC was first proposed by French foreign minister Robert Schuman on 9 May 1950 as a way to prevent further war between France and Germany. He declared his aim was to "make war not only unthinkable but materially impossible"^[3] which was to be achieved by regional integration, of which the ECSC was the first step. The Treaty would create a common market for coal and steel among its member states which served to neutralise competition between European nations over natural resources, particularly in the Ruhr.

 

Or to keep it simple: Why do you think differently about Germans than your grandfather did? Surely your grandfather was not an intestines extracting barbarian? But I am 99% sure he hated Germans, unless he was an exception to the rule.

Funny story:

Some 45 years ago  I found hitchhiking in Norway was just about impossible. Then a Norwegian told me "it is because of that Belgian flag on your backpack, people think it is a German flag". I removed the flag, and hitchhiked happily ever after....

 

[oldhippy]

Obviously, we need a bit of both.

 

Enlightened true statesmen such as Schuman (FR) and Adenauer (DE). And believe it or not, I will even mention Churchill.

 

Winston Churchill, a former army officer, war reporter and British Prime Minister (1940-45 and 1951-55), was one of the first to call for the creation of a 'United States of Europe'. Following the Second World War, he was convinced that only a united Europe could guarantee peace. His aim was to eliminate the European ills of nationalism and war-mongering once and for all. (Source:https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/history/founding-fathers_en).

 

Israelis and Palestinians, or Asians never had such people. Africa of course had Mandela, but his struggle was against apartheid.

 

But yes we also need an educated population.

 

What I dislike about brexit, without singing the praise of the present EU, is that brexit is a move back in history.

Many things are wrong with the present EU, but the idea is correct.

Many things are understandable about brexit, but the idea is wrong.

 

 

[ELVIS123456]

On 11/6/2017 at 9:52 PM, SheungWan said:

Yes, Brexit offers the infinitely more elevated experience of flaunting the superior attributes of being an uneducated idiot.

143

Bachelor of Economics

MBA

Diploma Marketing

 

You??

Dont bother - libtards are mentally challenged liars (and shoot people in Churches) - blocked.