What type of savings or investment do you recommend for a Brit abroad?

[mat999]

Firstly, apologies if this is the wrong forum. It looks like this may just be for Thai related finance, but it seemed more relevant to post here than in the General Forum.

 

I am currently on an education visa in Thailand. I make a little money from passive income in the Middle East (I am not working in Thailand). I don't spend enough time in the UK to pay tax there and I have no connections to the Middle East, I just get paid from a bank account there. I have never had savings before and I am baffled at what the best options are. I bought a book about personal finance, but it is too generic- it is more about the overall mindset of personal finance and has made me realise I should begin with an emergency fund rather than dabbling in risky investments.

 

Browsing for things on Google is confusing with there being lots of options. I was thinking of just calling my bank and asking what they recommend, but that seems silly as the money wouldn't keep up with inflation according to their Savings Accounts and ISAs. So maybe there is something else to look at? 

 

Please, can you recommend a good option for me to start saving a little money each month? Just a direct debit so that I have an emergency fund for the future.  It needs to be at least fairly low risk, not taxed by anyone and ideally at least keeping up with inflation. I get paid in any currency I like, so it doesn't matter to me which country I do this in. I can set the direct debit to go out of my UK bank or Thai bank.

 

I know this is a very broad question but it is something I have been putting off for far too long. I want to get started today so that tomorrow I don't forget about it and then leave it for another 6 months or years. Thanks.

[chingching]

Ethereum

[davidst01]

59 minutes ago, chingching said:

Ethereum

I second this idea. Also, buy bitcoin and sit on it for 5 yrs. I own both and think that I will double my money or more. 

[scubascuba3]

Start reading citywire forum and get your knowledge up. With little knowledge you may get mislead or worst of all scammed.

http://moneyforums.citywire.co.uk

[roquefort]

Buy a small amount of gold each month. Not paper gold (ETFs or gold funds) but the actual physical metal. Store it offshore in a secure vault in your own name. Gains are usually not taxable and it is historically the best hedge against inflation there is. If you want more details of how to do this, PM me.

[scubascuba3]

In case people try to tell you gold is risk free. I've heard it before

[chingching]

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by chingching
remove duplicate

[roquefort]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

In case people try to tell you gold is risk free. I've heard it before

Nice try, but why don't you post a chart from 2001? Tells a completely different story.

[scubascuba3]

Nice try, but why don't you post a chart from 2001? Tells a completely different story.

The particular app i use only shows a maximum of 5 years, happy for you to post longer. The point is gold has risk, and people claiming its relatively risk free which i read the other day should be ignored.

[roquefort]

5 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

5 hours ago, roquefort said:

Nice try, but why don't you post a chart from 2001? Tells a completely different story.

The particular app i use only shows a maximum of 5 years, happy for you to post longer. The point is gold has risk, and people claiming its relatively risk free which i read the other day should be ignored.

I agree, there's no such thing as risk free in any investment. But gold has stood the test of time for thousands of years. A good suit costs the same in ounces of gold as it did in Roman times. Here's the 20 year chart:

 

[chingching]

35 minutes ago, roquefort said:

I agree, there's no such thing as risk free in any investment. But gold has stood the test of time for thousands of years. A good suit costs the same in ounces of gold as it did in Roman times. Here's the 20 year chart:

 

 

I've heard the comparison of gold to the price of a good suit often,  and it is true.  But is that what you want from an "investment" ? Invest the price of a suit today,  and in 20 years,  you can cash in your investment, and buy one suit.    

I'd rather invest in something that is going to GROW, not stay stagnant or keep par with an inflationary fiat.
 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2017 by chingching
remove attachment

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Stay far away from digital currencies. Just a single announcement from china yesterday sent them all crashing. Imagine if they ever get serious cracking down.

[mat999]

Well, I have been playing around with Bitcoin and a few others. On strong recommendations from 2 people I am steering clear of Ethereum, despite it being amazingly profitable for so many this year. Bitcoin is good for long term, probably. Then it is fun dabbling in smaller ones in case they jump like Ethereum did. Also getting a basic savings account in the UK, so I always have a guaranteed fund for emergencies. Other things required me to be living in the UK, whereas for a savings account I think they just want confirmation of my tax country.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am sure I will start to look at gold after I get over the newbie period in cryptocurrency. The above mentioned China news is awesome. I bought more Bitcoin when it dropped, it only affects certain coins so the drop is almost certainly going to recover soon. The volatility makes cryptocurrency rather exciting.

[scubascuba3]

. The volatility makes cryptocurrency rather exciting.

If i wanted excitement maybe I'd do horse racing or something

[suzannegoh]

I agree, there's no such thing as risk free in any investment. But gold has stood the test of time for thousands of years. A good suit costs the same in ounces of gold as it did in Roman times. Here's the 20 year chart:

 

That's a popular statement that a suit costs the same now in terms of ounces of gold as it did in Roman times and it sounds good if you don't think about it too deeply. The problem is that's like investing by stuffing money in your mattress - if that Roman had sold his ounce of gold and put the money in equities, or land, or bonds, or anything else that earns a return, how much money would he have today?

 

[Chivas]

On 9/4/2017 at 10:40 AM, roquefort said:

Buy a small amount of gold each month. Not paper gold (ETFs or gold funds) but the actual physical metal. Store it offshore in a secure vault in your own name. Gains are usually not taxable and it is historically the best hedge against inflation there is. If you want more details of how to do this, PM me.

comedy gold buddy simple as

[suzannegoh]

Nice try, but why don't you post a chart from 2001? Tells a completely different story.

Likewise, why not start the chart in 1980? In terms of inflation adjusted dollars, gold has still never risen back to the peak that it achieved in 1980.

[partington]

On 9/5/2017 at 4:22 AM, roquefort said:

I agree, there's no such thing as risk free in any investment. But gold has stood the test of time for thousands of years. A good suit costs the same in ounces of gold as it did in Roman times. Here's the 20 year chart:

 

  You say this as if it's a good thing, but you are just revealing gold to be not an investment but merely a way of keeping cash protected (sometimes) from inflation and nothing more. Bonds or a decent fixed term account would do that, with less of the cyclical price changes and uncertainty of gold.

 

You have to factor in the opportunity costs of buying gold as well in your calculations. That is how much money do you lose by buying gold, as opposed to say buying an equity index fund?

 

This makes you think:

 

According to University of Pennsylvania finance professor Jeremy Siegel in his seminal book Stocks for the Long Run, here's what a dollar invested in various things would have grown to, from 1802 to 2001. (Amounts have been adjusted for inflation.)

Stocks: $599,605 

Bonds: $952 

Bills: $304 

Gold: $0.98

[suzannegoh]

Pretty much any advice to invest in only one thing - be it Ethereum, gold, stocks, or whatever, is bad advice.  The only free lunch comes from diversification.

[mat999]

On 10/09/2017 at 9:32 PM, scubascuba3 said:

If i wanted excitement maybe I'd do horse racing or something

 

Bitcoin broke $7,000 today. Double what I paid for my second round. Lots more fun and profitable than gambling on midgets riding horses in silly silk costumes. 

[chingching]

6 hours ago, mat999 said:

Bitcoin broke $7,000 today. Double what I paid for my second round. Lots more fun and profitable than gambling on midgets riding horses in silly silk costumes. 

iF Some one were holding bitcoin for the last month or so, they would also have gotten value from a.) the bitcoin-cash fork and b.) the bitcoin-gold fork, The 3 together are now ~ 7800. (usd).  

[fletchsmile]

OP,

 

If it's an emergency fund and something you may need to access then you really don't want to be investing in investments based on equities/bonds/commodities/gold/property etc . In fact you probably don't want to be "investing" at all, but simply "saving" in cash. Most of those investments have (market) risks to capital which generally isn't appropriate for emergency funds.

 

Yes rates are poor and may not  keep up with inflation. Although that said inflation rates are low in Thailand.

 

Most banks have some form of saving by installment accounts on smaller amounts - you mentioned up front you want to save a small amount. TMB for example has a "Dream Saver" account:

- you save between 500 baht to 25,000 baht each month. This is taken the same date each month from a main account and put into the Dream Saver

- you can withdraw the money any time/ move it back to the main account

- interest rate is up to 2.5% p.a. which is about one of the best for this type of access with no fixed term

 

https://www.tmbbank.com/en/accounts/savings/dream-saving.html

 

The above link is to TMB's "English website". Most of this part is in Thai though LOL - a reflection of TMB's generally not being geared to foreigners. Google translate would give a decent summary though if you look at the "account details" part

 

Once you have built up your emergency funds you can start looking at a wider investments, eg mutual funds etc. This is the point you are likely to get returns that exceed inflation. Until then though your priority is an emergency fund, and you will need to accept that cash rates are currently poor, where safety of capital is concerned

 

You may also get offered insurance based products if you ask a bank. Often they are not good value. While they may be useful for a medical style emergency or death, they are also most likely not suitable for an emergency fund of the style where you just fall on hard times/ need cash etc. So be careful of the bank hard sells for their commissions on these.

 

Cheers

Fletch :)

 

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

On 9/10/2017 at 7:24 PM, mat999 said:

Well, I have been playing around with Bitcoin and a few others. On strong recommendations from 2 people I am steering clear of Ethereum, despite it being amazingly profitable for so many this year. Bitcoin is good for long term, probably. Then it is fun dabbling in smaller ones in case they jump like Ethereum did. Also getting a basic savings account in the UK, so I always have a guaranteed fund for emergencies. Other things required me to be living in the UK, whereas for a savings account I think they just want confirmation of my tax country.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am sure I will start to look at gold after I get over the newbie period in cryptocurrency. The above mentioned China news is awesome. I bought more Bitcoin when it dropped, it only affects certain coins so the drop is almost certainly going to recover soon. The volatility makes cryptocurrency rather exciting.

Bitcoin isn't suitable for an emergency fund. Short or long term punts and speculation maybe, settling certain transactions or transferring money maybe. Not for an emergency fund though. Emergency funds shouldn't be volatile. Save the volatility and excitement for the next step after the basic emergency fund, when you are actually looking at investments and more risk for more reward.

[mat999]

I fully agree that Bitcoin is 100% unsuitable for an emergency fund. I will get a savings account with my bank for that. But my UK bank want to send me something to confirm my tax country, so I had a dabble in Bitcoin in the meantime, which is going very well.

Nice to know that Thai banks have savings options too, I hadn't thought about that, thanks @fletchsmile. I shall see what Bangkok Bank offers. 

[lamyai3]

On 11/4/2017 at 11:57 PM, mat999 said:

I fully agree that Bitcoin is 100% unsuitable for an emergency fund. I will get a savings account with my bank for that. But my UK bank want to send me something to confirm my tax country, so I had a dabble in Bitcoin in the meantime, which is going very well.

Nice to know that Thai banks have savings options too, I hadn't thought about that, thanks @fletchsmile. I shall see what Bangkok Bank offers. 

How do you invest in bitcoin? Is it  better to do UK side than here in Thailand?

[chingching]

3 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

How do you invest in bitcoin? Is it  better to do UK side than here in Thailand?

By it's nature,  bitcoin is borderless and is outside the control of any country. If you want to buy bitcoin with pounds or baht is up to you. If you have fiat bank accounts in both countries you may get a better rate in UK because of liquidity. In Thailand there is bx.in.th ,  localbitcoins.com  ,  coins.co.th

Reportedly, in Zimbabwe BTC is selling for $10,000 usd, due to some govt. screw up

[The manic]

On 9/4/2017 at 3:29 PM, chingching said:

Ethereum

Dont touch Bit coins or any digital currency including Ethereum. Consider  P2P banking. I use funding circle, assetzcapital, and thincats get about 5% interest a year, my UK property is good investment. Do not invest in storage units containers, graveyards, carbon credits  etc. Consider stocks and shares check out the naked trader. I am not a financial adviser and not an expert. Check out government backed bond's and off shore bonds. Before you invest in anything check if it FSA protection. Also google word plus ripp or fraud. EG Google carbon credit investments fraud ripp offs and see what happens.

Edited May 7, 2018 by The manic