On official (F class) visa dating Cambodian on non-B. Legal advice for permanent residence?

[bkk7]

I'm looking for a lawyer to have a first consultation on possibilities. I'm a late 30s American male on an official F class visa. She's a Cambodian on a B visa working as a maid. She did not finish school, I have 2 graduate degrees (if that matters). We both speak, read and write Thai. She has been here for 8 years. I've been here much shorter. Our lingua franca is Thai. We'd like to make a plan to stay here long term, especially with permanent residence or citizenship. If it is possible, even if it means changing jobs for me, for example, we'd like to talk to a lawyer and set up a strategy for this. Thanks!

[ubonjoe]

You would have to have a minimum salary of 80k baht and be paying taxes for 3 years to apply for permanent residency.

To apply for citizenship you would have to be on permanent residency for 5 years and meet the same salary requirement.

[blackcab]

3 hours ago, bkk7 said:

She's a Cambodian on a B visa working as a maid.

 

I think you need to carefully check this. I think you will find she actually had a Non-LA visa and then got her extensions of stay/work permit based on that.

 

As UJ said, she would need to have been paid a minimum of 80k per month, of which she had to pay the correct taxes for 3 full years. The same applies to you and anyone else who wants to apply for PR.

 

Do you have a work permit with your F visa?

[bberrythailand]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You would have to have a minimum salary of 80k baht and be paying taxes for 3 years to apply for permanent residency.

To apply for citizenship you would have to be on permanent residency for 5 years and meet the same salary requirement.

 

Can you get 80k salary from our own company ?

 

[Briggsy]

4 minutes ago, bberrythailand said:

 

Can you get 80k salary from our own company ?

 

Do you have an established company in Thailand?

[blackcab]

8 minutes ago, bberrythailand said:

 

Can you get 80k salary from our own company ?

 

 

If you have a work permit then why not. However unless you are American or have BOI privileges it's not your company.

 

From memory I believe extra documents are required to be submitted if you are a shareholder in a Thai company - but I'm not 100 per cent on that.

[bberrythailand]

Just now, Briggsy said:

Do you have an established company in Thailand?

 

Yes of course.

 

 

[bkk7]

5 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

I think you need to carefully check this. I think you will find she actually had a Non-LA visa and then got her extensions of stay/work permit based on that.

 

As UJ said, she would need to have been paid a minimum of 80k per month, of which she had to pay the correct taxes for 3 full years. The same applies to you and anyone else who wants to apply for PR.

 

Do you have a work permit with your F visa?

She does have a work permit. She *just* had it renewed 3 weeks ago. I've seen that. Ministry of Foreign Affairs has her passport so I will know after that which type of visa it is.

 

She makes 20k per month but she is 100% legal.

 

I do not have a work permit because it's a diplomatic visa. I have a permit to stay, however. I make 220k per month. I am also tax exempt. So this is why I am thinking one of us may need to change work. We'd like to figure out has the best chances or if we have the best chance together, etc.

 

 

[bkk7]

9 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You would have to have a minimum salary of 80k baht and be paying taxes for 3 years to apply for permanent residency.

To apply for citizenship you would have to be on permanent residency for 5 years and meet the same salary requirement.

I exceed the salary requirements but I am tax exempt. I can't even pay taxes if I want to. She makes 20k per month. She is 100% legal and has been the entire time she has been here.

[kiwiaussie]

I suspect your girlfriend is on an LA visa for migrant labour from neighbouring countries.

 

as you are on a F Visa, you do not need a work permit. If you work for an embassy or a UN linked organisation, or something along the lines of the IFC you will be tax free. 

 

However if you work for what broadly are called 'international organisations' or some sort of foreign aid funded organisation (eg research institute or a USAID initiative) sponsored by TICA (who give you a F Visa) you will not be tax free - officially. For all intents and purposes you do pay tax to the revenue department but what really happens is TICA refunds that taxable amount to you so you are no worse off. 

 

If you are in this latter category of F visa holder then a tax return will exist. Ask your HR about it.

[blackcab]

2 hours ago, bkk7 said:

I exceed the salary requirements but I am tax exempt. I can't even pay taxes if I want to. She makes 20k per month. She is 100% legal and has been the entire time she has been here.

 

As things currently stand, the fundamental rule is that all applicants for PR must have paid tax on minimum earnings of 80k per month for the previous 3 years.

 

Your partner does not receive the minimum required salary. This makes her ineligible to apply.

 

You have not paid tax on your salary for a minimum of 3 years (in fact you have not paid income tax at all). This makes you ineligeable to apply.

 

To become eligible to apply for PR you each need to:

 

1. Be employed

2. Earn a minimum salary of 80k per month

3. Pay income tax for a full 3 year period

 

Please be aware that the quickest you would receive PR would be about 2 years after a successful application. Some people, however, have waited several years longer. The current government has speeded things up considerably. 

[bberrythailand]

So easy, if he really likes to mess with these troubles (not enough THAI women in Thailand to choose...) he can just make a company and employ her for 80k ! Anyway, the full story being crazy nothing can be stupid enough to surprise me !

 

 

[gk10002000]

well, I don't know if this will work, but you could get a Thai Elite Visa for yourself as a starter.  I don't know if you could get that and keep your F visa, or if you would even want to. 

[ozmeldo]

20k for a maid? How is this possible?

[THAIJAMES]

I myself got permanent residence under the "special" category which does not require the same tax return minimums like business or marriage.  Unfortunately with special cases, it becomes much harder as Thai bureaucracy has problems with dealing with anything not by the book.

 

I would go to immigration and give them your information.  You may be able to apply for permanent residency as per your circumstances now.

 

There are two categories available:

 

• Expert / academic category
• Other categories as determined by Thai Immigration

Then after you have received PR, your wife can apply for PR under your PR.

[bkk7]

13 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

20k for a maid? How is this possible?

 

Yes, it's a lot, but she has had the same employer for several years, and the employer is well-off, so she's generous. She also works 6 days a week, 12 hours a day, 9am-9pm.

[bkk7]

21 hours ago, kiwiaussie said:

I suspect your girlfriend is on an LA visa for migrant labour from neighbouring countries.

 

as you are on a F Visa, you do not need a work permit. If you work for an embassy or a UN linked organisation, or something along the lines of the IFC you will be tax free. 

 

However if you work for what broadly are called 'international organisations' or some sort of foreign aid funded organisation (eg research institute or a USAID initiative) sponsored by TICA (who give you a F Visa) you will not be tax free - officially. For all intents and purposes you do pay tax to the revenue department but what really happens is TICA refunds that taxable amount to you so you are no worse off. 

 

If you are in this latter category of F visa holder then a tax return will exist. Ask your HR about it.

you are most probably right about the LA visa. her passport isn't back yet for me to check, but it's a safe working assumption. as i said, she does have a work permit though. i've examined it closely myself - both her old blue book permit and the new ID card style one she has now.

 

yes, i know i don't need the work permit and yes, my status is completely tax exempt in Thailand (UN).

[bkk7]

19 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

As things currently stand, the fundamental rule is that all applicants for PR must have paid tax on minimum earnings of 80k per month for the previous 3 years.

 

Your partner does not receive the minimum required salary. This makes her ineligible to apply.

 

You have not paid tax on your salary for a minimum of 3 years (in fact you have not paid income tax at all). This makes you ineligeable to apply.

 

To become eligible to apply for PR you each need to:

 

1. Be employed

2. Earn a minimum salary of 80k per month

3. Pay income tax for a full 3 year period

 

Please be aware that the quickest you would receive PR would be about 2 years after a successful application. Some people, however, have waited several years longer. The current government has speeded things up considerably. 

yeah, it does make it clear that she doesn't qualify under #2 and i don't qualify under #3.

 

i realize that it would be a long climb. it sounds like the timeline here would be... 5 years for PR for,  most likely, me?

[bkk7]

16 hours ago, bberrythailand said:

So easy, if he really likes to mess with these troubles (not enough THAI women in Thailand to choose...) he can just make a company and employ her for 80k ! Anyway, the full story being crazy nothing can be stupid enough to surprise me !

 

 

this has nothing to do with not having enough Thai women. we met and fell in love. simple. i have nothing  but love for Thai women.

[bkk7]

14 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

well, I don't know if this will work, but you could get a Thai Elite Visa for yourself as a starter.  I don't know if you could get that and keep your F visa, or if you would even want to. 

that wouldn't work because i still wouldn't meet the qualifications @blackcab mentioned: 1) be employed and 3) paying taxes. i'm required to keep my F visa for my employment status and i can't just decide to pay taxes. i'm sure the government would take my money willingly, but legally it's just not an option.

[bkk7]

12 hours ago, THAIJAMES said:

I myself got permanent residence under the "special" category which does not require the same tax return minimums like business or marriage.  Unfortunately with special cases, it becomes much harder as Thai bureaucracy has problems with dealing with anything not by the book.

 

I would go to immigration and give them your information.  You may be able to apply for permanent residency as per your circumstances now.

 

There are two categories available:

 

• Expert / academic category
• Other categories as determined by Thai Immigration

Then after you have received PR, your wife can apply for PR under your PR.

that's really, really interesting. but i do know that while i'm under an F visa, i'm specifically not eligible for citizenship, and i would assume permanent residency as well. i'd like to look into this though. i'm not sure i would qualify. this is a really interesting option.

 

until now i was thinking about quitting my job and applying for a private sector position - and going the 3 years of taxes + 2 years of waiting route... i'm wondering what the qualifications are for 'special cases' and if i'd still be eligible if i had a non-B and work permit.

[baansgr]

14 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

20k for a maid? How is this possible?

Very possible and quite likely. Just because minimum wage is 300 Bath a day, dosnt mean everyone only earns that. Minimum wage usually paid to uneducated labourers. Anyone with education and experience will quite easily earn 20k and more....even as a maid

[blackcab]

51 minutes ago, bkk7 said:

that's really, really interesting. but i do know that while i'm under an F visa, i'm specifically not eligible for citizenship, and i would assume permanent residency as well. i'd like to look into this though. i'm not sure i would qualify. this is a really interesting option.

 

until now i was thinking about quitting my job and applying for a private sector position - and going the 3 years of taxes + 2 years of waiting route... i'm wondering what the qualifications are for 'special cases' and if i'd still be eligible if i had a non-B and work permit.

 

3 full years, then you have to wait for applications to open (could be another 6 months - it just depends on the timing). As I said, 2 years is possible at the minute but please don't pin your hopes on it. Some people have waited years longer.a

 

Special cases? I think you have to substantially help or benefit Thailand or Thai people to the extent that it made a noticeable difference.

 

Think about your own country. If the situation was reversed, what would a foreign national have to do to be rewarded with the same level if privaledge (assuming such privaledged exists in your country)?

[blackcab]

@bkk7 Have you thought about marrying her then continuing doing diplomatic or consular work for your government?

 

Where you go, she could go. That's got to be more enjoyable than being a maid. Your salary would easily cover things.

 

Just thinking of options for you.

[bkk7]

3 hours ago, blackcab said:

@bkk7 Have you thought about marrying her then continuing doing diplomatic or consular work for your government?

 

Where you go, she could go. That's got to be more enjoyable than being a maid. Your salary would easily cover things.

 

Just thinking of options for you.

yes, we have thought about that, but if my appointment changes and i need to move to a new post, we will then need to live in a new country where she doesn't speak the language and it would make things considerably different and difficult. she also does not speak English, so it would really isolate her with no language ability or family or friends if we needed to move. right now, we communicate entirely in Thai - although we've planned for her to learn English in the future - but again, that's planning ahead. if i'm posted to, say, Indonesia, she wouldn't be able to learn English in Indonesian when she isn't even literate in a Latin-based alphabet. the hurdles there would be substantial.

 

she also doesn't have any desire to be far away from her family - 1 older brother and 2 older sisters married Thais.

 

so really, in the long run, those factors and others are our motivation for why we want to do our best to plan to be here. and marriage is part of that plan, but it just won't help us long term for me to marry her for my temporary status. we'd like to find the most direct path for 1 of us to PR first, and support that person to get it. and it sounds like that may involve me leaving my job for a private sector position, which i've started to look for. she and our future are more important to me than my job.

 

i really do appreciate your advice and thoughts. i'm definitely looking for creativity.

[blackcab]

The only other option I can think of is the Elite visa. Expensive, but long term.