Quick way to get Aus residency for Thai defacto

[miksak]

 

Hello,

I have recently been offered a new residential job in Aus and am looking at moving my family over

i have been in Thailand since 2011 and we have two kids 3.5 and 6 months old both with Aus passports
My gf has been to Australia multiple times on a A600 visa
I thought this was a straight forward process for bring partners over to Aus

As i have been told that you can bring your GF,wife over on a tourist visa A600 and apply for a subclass 820/801on arrival

I am yet to 100% commit to this position as the more i enquire the more things you need to consider ie 8503 "no further stay waiver" also by applying for another visa when you are currently on a visa you fail to adhere tourist visa conditions which would be a issue 
Is this something that is possible? as applying outside Aus and waiting 12-18 months isn't a option 
I have spoken to a Migration agent who basically do all the work and submit your application to immigration, but they charge a 4k fee which i want to avoid if possible
Would this be recommended?
My plan was to come to Aus and in 2 months once im set up bring the family over

I need to give a answer by the 21st on my new position

 

Ps i had a scan through threads but wasnt able to find anything

 

Cheers in advance,

 

 

 

 

[simple1]

As you say the got you is if a no further stay condition is applied to the visitors visa. However, I assisted a Thai friend (Australian citizen) with his Thai wife.  Wife entered Oz on a tourist visa without no further stay, valid for three months, then applied online for a spouse visa. The application was acknowledged within 24 hours which granted stay until temporary PR application was granted - time lapse was about nine months. They had a child with dual citizenship which I understand was helpful as generally Immi do not like splitting up families. BTW a few months back wife was granted Permanent Residency, but now has to wait four years to apply for citizenship. 

 

Recently assisted his Thai Mother-in-Law to extend by three months her visitor visa online, extension granted within a few days.

 

EDIT: Doesn't cost too much to apply for a visitor visa and processed within days and valid for three months for entry, so why not apply now to see if no further stay applied, which I doubt as you have children together.

Edited August 18, 2017 by simple1

[miksak]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

As you say the got you is if a no further stay condition is applied to the visitors visa. However, I assisted a Thai friend (Australian citizen) with his Thai wife.  Wife entered Oz on a tourist visa without no further stay, valid for three months, then applied online for a spouse visa. The application was acknowledged within 24 hours which granted stay until temporary PR application was granted - time lapse was about nine months. They had a child with dual citizenship which I understand was helpful as generally Immi do not like splitting up families. BTW a few months back wife was granted Permanent Residency, but now has to wait four years to apply for citizenship. 

 

Recently assisted his Thai Mother-in-Law to extend by three months her visitor visa online, extension granted within a few days.

 

EDIT: Doesn't cost too much to apply for a visitor visa and processed within days and valid for three months for entry, so why not apply now to see if no further stay applied, which I doubt as you have children together.

Hello,

This is a option but due to time restraint may not be possible

The whole "no further stay" option is a confusing one 

I just got off the phone to immigration officer and she said the 8503 no further stay is issued to countries who are deemed to be high risk countries ie (Thailand) and for people who have previously breached visa conditions before, I asked if this would be relevant in my case and she said that it is determined by a case by case bases and it totally up to the officer processing the application. Im still unsure why there is a option to apply for a partner visa from Aus, and who this applies to 

Surely if you stated on your A600 visa that when you arrived you would apply for a subclass 820/801 visa your application would be 100% denied

There is a risk here that it could all go balls up

But am not sure if there is even a issue to be worried about 

Is there any one out there who had a A503 no further stay issued on there tourist visa?

It would have been good to check my applications previously but the Gf decided to bin all the old docs

 

FYI no further stay refers to applicant unable to apply for a visa once you have entered Aus under a A600 tourist visa

 

Cheers

Edited August 18, 2017 by miksak

[Surin13]

38 minutes ago, miksak said:

Hello,

The whole "no further stay" option is a confusing one 

I just got off the phone to immigration officer and she said the 8503 no further stay is issued to countries who are deemed to be high risk countries ie (Thailand) and for people who have previously breached visa conditions before, I asked if this would be relevant in my case and she said that it is determined by a case by case bases and it totally up to the officer processing the application. 

Confusing how? it seems to have been explained pretty well to you by the immigration officer. 

 

Its unfair, but it is what it is.

 

38 minutes ago, miksak said:

 Im still unsure why there is a option to apply for a partner visa from Aus, and who this applies to 

People from first world countries is the simple answer, i.e US, UK, EU etc don't have this condition normally applied (that's even if they need a visa) + a heap of other types of visa's.

 

38 minutes ago, miksak said:

Surely if you stated on your A600 visa that when you arrived you would apply for a subclass 820/801 visa your application would be 100% denied

There is a risk here that it could all go balls up

But am not sure if there is even a issue to be worried about 

No not 100% denied, but it's a risk, as its circumventing the system.

 

You have 3 options, each with its own risk.

 

Be upfront and honest and explain the situation and that you intend to apply for a partner visa in Australia,  having young Australian kids would be taken into account.

 

Be upfront and explain your situation, but don't mention applying for the partner visa, i.e let them make the conclusion without admitting it, an kids would be taken into account.

 

Just apply for a tourist visa and hope you don't get an 8503 condition.  

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Surin13

[Will27]

50 minutes ago, Surin13 said:

Confusing how? it seems to have been explained pretty well to you by the immigration officer. 

 

Its unfair, but it is what it is.

 

People from first world countries is the simple answer, i.e US, UK, EU etc don't have this condition normally applied (that's even if they need a visa) + a heap of other types of visa's.

 

No not 100% denied, but it's a risk, as its circumventing the system.

 

You have 3 options, each with its own risk.

 

Be upfront and honest and explain the situation and that you intend to apply for a partner visa in Australia,  having young Australian kids would be taken into account.

 

Be upfront and explain your situation, but don't mention applying for the partner visa, i.e let them make the conclusion without admitting it, an kids would be taken into account.

 

Just apply for a tourist visa and hope you don't get an 8503 condition.  

 

I'd be going for option 3.

[miksak]

45 minutes ago, Surin13 said:

Confusing how? it seems to have been explained pretty well to you by the immigration officer. 

 

Its unfair, but it is what it is.

How it is up to the officer to determine if you require the 8503 no further stay subclass

If it was clear cut it would be easier to plan around ie your from a high risk area you will have 8503 issued with your visa

 

As you say it is what it is

From what i understand this is how alot of people come into Aus

And just because you are applying from Aus doesnt garantee your visa will be granted

 

Cheers

[miksak]

1 minute ago, Will27 said:

I'd be going for option 3.

I think so 

I was leaning towards that way also 

 

[Surin13]

53 minutes ago, miksak said:

How it is up to the officer to determine if you require the 8503 no further stay subclass

If it was clear cut it would be easier to plan around ie your from a high risk area you will have 8503 issued with your visa

Have a read of my post here, for more details

 

 

But the section you are asking about is this

 

it is open to the decision maker to impose an 8503 if residual concerns exist and the decision maker is concerned that the applicant may try to change their immigration status onshore without compelling reasons to do so.

 

Imposition of condition 8503 is, however, likely to be unnecessary in such cases given that the applicant has been upfront and already lodged a permanent visa application offshore — and may be unlikely to lodge again onshore and pay a second VAC. See PAM3: Sch 8/8503 for further information.

 

All applicants, other than subclass 303 holders, who have made a Partner (subclass 309) visa, must be outside of Australia in order for the 309 visa to be granted. Visitor Policy Section does not support delaying decisions on Visitor applications pending the outcome of a Partner visa application.

 

However, case officers should ensure that applicants are aware that, if they satisfy all the criteria for grant of the 309 visa, they will be required to be outside of Australia at the time of the 309 visa grant.

 

46.3 No permanent visa application lodged

 

Similar factors, as listed above, should be taken into account if a Tourist visa applicant is in a relationship with an Australia citizen, or permanent resident and eventually may intend to reside permanently in Australia, but has not yet made a final decision to do so and/or lodged a permanent visa application offshore. In these circumstances, decision makers must give careful consideration as to whether the applicant meets the genuine visitor requirement.

 

The possible eventual intention of the applicant to stay permanently in Australia should not, in itself, be considered ground to refuse a Tourist visa. Decision makers should consider the applicant's current intentions and whether the applicant is attempting to circumvent proper migration channels.

 

For example, if an applicant seeks to travel to Australia to meet future parents in law and determine whether they wish to live in Australia with their partner, but has a history of abiding by visa conditions and will be returning home to complete a university degree prior to lodging a Partner visa application there may be no concerns about the genuine nature of the visit.

 

Decision makers may consider imposing an 8503 if they have residual concerns about the applicant’s intentions.

 

[Surin13]

The other option is to apply for a partner visa and then visitor visa. As you can get a longer and or multiple entry tourist visa to go to Australia while waiting for a partner visa to be processed.

 

The disadvantage to this is they may not grant you a long enough visa or you may get a 12 month multiple entry visa where your wife would have to leave Australia every 3 months.    

 

Your wife will have to leave Australia for a decision to be made on the partner visa as well when the time comes.

 

The advantage? is that its the correct way to do it. 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Surin13

[simple1]

15 hours ago, Surin13 said:

The other option is to apply for a partner visa and then visitor visa. As you can get a longer and or multiple entry tourist visa to go to Australia while waiting for a partner visa to be processed.

 

The disadvantage to this is they may not grant you a long enough visa or you may get a 12 month multiple entry visa where your wife would have to leave Australia every 3 months.    

 

Your wife will have to leave Australia for a decision to be made on the partner visa as well when the time comes.

 

The advantage? is that its the correct way to do it. 

From my experience of assisting Thais (for free) in Oz no issue to apply for a spouse visa whilst on a tourist visa within Oz. As soon as the application is received, tourist visa superseded & mother has right of residency until temporary PR visa granted. Of course may be a risk, but can always return to Thailand to apply if not granted.

[Surin13]

That's correct, no issue with applying for another visa whilst in Australia if you don't have a 8503 condition, the OP could apply for a permanent residency visa (no need to apply for a temporary in the OP's case) and will be granted a bridging visa until the decision is made.

 

But we have been talking about avoiding the 8503 condition, which is the harder part. 

[simple1]

On 19/08/2017 at 1:52 PM, Surin13 said:

That's correct, no issue with applying for another visa whilst in Australia if you don't have a 8503 condition, the OP could apply for a permanent residency visa (no need to apply for a temporary in the OP's case) and will be granted a bridging visa until the decision is made.

 

But we have been talking about avoiding the 8503 condition, which is the harder part. 

To clarify, yes the person I assisted applied for PR and was granted a bridging visa, then onto a temporary partner visa (820) for two years, then granted PR.

[miksak]

On 18/08/2017 at 3:08 PM, Surin13 said:

On 18/08/2017 at 4:58 PM, Surin13 said:

Have a read of my post here, for more details

 

 

Wow you know your stuff....

 

Cheers,

 

 

[sammycic]

My Thai girlfriend was refused a second tourist visa just yesterday as they said she spent too much time in Australia and was trying to circumvent proper migration channels.

I too had hoped for a multiple entry visa without condition 8503 imposed so that we could lodge permanent residence in Australia.

Reading all of the above it appears that we have no other option than to apply for a 309 visa in Thailand.

 

[miksak]

13 minutes ago, sammycic said:

My Thai girlfriend was refused a second tourist visa just yesterday as they said she spent too much time in Australia and was trying to circumvent proper migration channels.

I too had hoped for a multiple entry visa without condition 8503 imposed so that we could lodge permanent residence in Australia.

Reading all of the above it appears that we have no other option than to apply for a 309 visa in Thailand.

 

Yes it seems to be case by case basis as my friend also had his wife visa issues with a 8503 (not that it was a issue as it was only for a holiday) clause as they are also bringing his wifes adopted grandson to Aus this week, But another friend of mine last year bought his family to Aus through this way ie tourist then applying for a residency visa. I think it depends on your circumstance and if Australian children are involved they are more likely to be leanient. Wish me luck ! 555 

[sammycic]

1 minute ago, miksak said:

Yes it seems to be case by case basis as my friend also had his wife visa issues with a 8503 (not that it was a issue as it was only for a holiday) clause as they are also bringing his wifes adopted grandson to Aus this week, But another friend of mine last year bought his family to Aus through this way ie tourist then applying for a residency visa. I think it depends on your circumstance and if Australian children are involved they are more likely to be leanient. Wish me luck ! 555 

I wish you good luck in that you don't have 8503 imposed as I believe this is the best way to apply in AUS. 

I should have stated this on her tourist visa this was our intention and taken my chances.

At the moment I am still deciding on whether  reapplying for tourist visa stating our true intentions or just applying for 309.

Then apply for a tourist visa as Surin13 says in an above post.

[Surin13]

1 hour ago, sammycic said:

I am still deciding on whether  reapplying for tourist visa stating our true intentions or just applying for 309.

My advice in regards to stating your true intentions only applies if you have young children together and in regards to the OP circumstance, it will work against you if you don't have these considerations. 

 

 

 

[sammycic]

32 minutes ago, Surin13 said:

My advice in regards to stating your true intentions only applies if you have young children together and in regards to the OP circumstance, it will work against you if you don't have these considerations. 

 

 

 

Lucky I didn't state my true intentions on the tourist application.

I will go to the 309 way and hopefully she will receive PR and we can stay in AUS as planned.

Cheers

[AustralianVisa]

I will try and keep this is brief because I could write a book on this topic, but as an Australian lawyer and Registered Migration Agent I have a lot of real experience, not pub talk or one off beliefs.

While many comments are useful, they lack the basic legal knowledge as to why certain conditions are placed on a visa and are not accurate.

 

Firstly, the Migration law states clearly that you can not ask for an 8503 Waiver - so don't even try.

 

Secondly, the 8503 is imposed based on the circumstances of the applicant - if the applicant is sponsored and requires financial support etc it will 100% be imposed.

 

If the applicant can apply in their own right then they may have a chance of a visa without an 8503 - it is then up to the discretion of the case officer. I would also like to debunk the myth about if children are involved they will not add the 8503 condition - that appears be neither fact or policy. So how your 600 visa is presented is critical.

Surin13 provides some solid information and advice above. Once the 309 is lodged the 600 will normally be approved and 12 month multiple entry, generally without the 8503. An onshore extension can then be applied for. The downside - no work rights or Medicare so travel insurance should be a must.

 

Finally, $4,000 seems a lot for a Partner Visa, not sure where you are getting charged that but about 33% too high!

[Jteam]

On 8/26/2017 at 10:42 AM, sammycic said:

My Thai girlfriend was refused a second tourist visa just yesterday as they said she spent too much time in Australia and was trying to circumvent proper migration channels.

 

 

Just wondering what amount of time is too much?

I have been with my partner 7 years and existed on rolling multiple entry visitor visas 12 months each (3mth max stays).

We've maintained about 60-40 ratio and not had  refusal yet.

In all this time I haven't been able to find a reference for a time scale, other than something on the dfat website to effect of 'a requirement to spend extended periods in your own country'.

However we all know it exists.

If you still have the letter of refusal are you able to upload the reasoning?

[Will27]

6 hours ago, Jteam said:

Just wondering what amount of time is too much?

I have been with my partner 7 years and existed on rolling multiple entry visitor visas 12 months each (3mth max stays).

We've maintained about 60-40 ratio and not had  refusal yet.

In all this time I haven't been able to find a reference for a time scale, other than something on the dfat website to effect of 'a requirement to spend extended periods in your own country'.

However we all know it exists.

If you still have the letter of refusal are you able to upload the reasoning?

You won't find a time scale because there is none.

 

When you say you maintain a 60/40 ratio, do you mean 40% of your time per

year is spent in Australia?

 

If so, that's pushing it. A lot depends on the Immigration officer at the airport.

They will usually give you a warning that no more tourist visas will be issued

if they're concerned she is living in Australia.

[Jteam]

Its actually not that much, more 30 like 70. see below visual timeline.

 

She carries a letter and all documentation specifically for customs officers if queried, although never been an issue in Oz. 

 

I'd still be interested in the seeing the words used in the refusal letter. There is an interesting ombudsman's report into decision making from 10 years ago, much of it which explains the why's and wherefores of today. 

 

https://www.ombudsman.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0013/26203/investigation_2007_15.pdf

[Will27]

3 hours ago, Jteam said:

Its actually not that much, more 30 like 70. see below visual timeline.

 

She carries a letter and all documentation specifically for customs officers if queried, although never been an issue in Oz. 

 

I'd still be interested in the seeing the words used in the refusal letter. There is an interesting ombudsman's report into decision making from 10 years ago, much of it which explains the why's and wherefores of today. 

 

https://www.ombudsman.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0013/26203/investigation_2007_15.pdf

 

Well, 3 or 4 months a year in Australia isn't a problem.

 

If you can be bothered to search, there have been a few refusal letters

posted previously where the decision maker has just written something 

like "Ms X has spent 210 days out of the last 280 days in Australia. I believe

she is living in Australia blah blah blah".

 

You cannot appeal an offshore tourist visa refusal anyway so the Ombudsman isn't much help.

[Jteam]

Thank you for that. It's more an interest in the process rather than my own situation touch wood. 

 

I'll do a search on the forums

[Jteam]

On 8/18/2017 at 5:30 PM, miksak said:

Hello,

This is a option but due to time restraint may not be possible

The whole "no further stay" option is a confusing one 

I just got off the phone to immigration officer and she said the 8503 no further stay is issued to countries who are deemed to be high risk countries ie (Thailand) and for people who have previously breached visa conditions before, I asked if this would be relevant in my case and she said that it is determined by a case by case bases and it totally up to the officer processing the application. Im still unsure why there is a option to apply for a partner visa from Aus, and who this applies to 

Surely if you stated on your A600 visa that when you arrived you would apply for a subclass 820/801 visa your application would be 100% denied

There is a risk here that it could all go balls up

But am not sure if there is even a issue to be worried about 

Is there any one out there who had a A503 no further stay issued on there tourist visa?

It would have been good to check my applications previously but the Gf decided to bin all the old docs

 

FYI no further stay refers to applicant unable to apply for a visa once you have entered Aus under a A600 tourist visa

 

Cheers

We've had multiple 600 visas over 7 years and only once was an 8503 not attached 

That was 2015. 

 

If you get an 8503 you can't even submit a 820 partner application and immiaccount won't process 309 unless she is offshore.  The system won't let you get past 3rd page until she exits Australia 

 

 

 

 

 

[Surin13]

On 2/20/2018 at 6:58 PM, Jteam said:

Just wondering what amount of time is too much?

There is no time limit as such, the visa requirement is to be a genuine tourist, if you spend the majority of your time staying in Australia compare to your home country, then it's hard to justify that you are a tourist and not trying to circumvent the visa requirements.

 

But as a general rule of thumb, it gets looked at if you spend more than 18mths in a 2 year period. But each case is decided on its own merits.