Best way to do this is ?

[John Richards]

Hello,

         After 6 years of annual visitor visas to the UK for my thai gf and the absurd amount of paperwork each time, we're getting married early next year in Thailand. With my romantic head on one reason is to cut down on the 'kin paperwork I thought this would result in. Initial investigations however seem to suggest that if we're not sure where we want to live (we change our minds every month) I am going to have to carry on visitor visas for my WIFE for the foreseeable future as a spouse visa is only issued if you intend to live in the UK right ? Is there nothing else we can apply for ? We just want to come and go as we please with a house in both countries.

 

We were even mulling 6 months UK summer, 6 months Thailand like that - but sounds like that would hit the buffers pretty soon ?

 

Any advice/suggestions welcome

 

 

[cornishcarlos]

I used to be indecisive too but I'm not so sure now ?

[John Richards]

1 hour ago, cornishcarlos said:

I used to be indecisive too but I'm not so sure now ?

Brilliant - thanks for all your help Mo !

[cornishcarlos]

Have you considered the 10yr multiple entry visit visa ?

[John Richards]

17 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

Have you considered the 10yr multiple entry visit visa ?

Nope - hadn't heard of it but just looked it up on here - thanks

 

Helps me but isn't going to help on the paperwork front for her coming into UK and the insane hoops you have to jump through. Plus if we did it every year its surely a matter of time before they start rejecting them I would have thought. Thing is we don't want to live permanently in either country !

Edited August 25, 2017 by John Richards
Update

[theoldgit]

No there isn't another visa type that really fits in with your needs, this is a question that's often asked, it will be no consolation to you but there are many that are in the same position of considering our options, including us, my wife went as far as taking the English test when we were in the UK a couple of years ago, but we're still here.

 

You've suggested continuing to use the regular visit route, and cornishcarlos suggests applying for the longer term visit visa, that's fine but, as you've indicated, you might encounter problems.

 

The six months here and six months in the UK is fine, especially if your wife was granted a longer term visit visa, though your wife would need to satisfy the Border Force Officer every time she presented herself at the UK Border that she remained a genuine visitor, and was not using the visit visa for extended periods to live in the UK, six month visits could be seen either way.

 

The longer term visit visa that CC suggests is designed for those who can demonstrate that they have a compelling reason to visit the UK over an extended period, I understand that the UKVI are often content to issue visas for applicants in a similar position as your wife, but it's not a given. Longer term visas are expensive,  US$832 for a five year visa and US$1043 for a ten year, and if the ECO only decides to issue a six month visa there is no rebate of the extra cost. The plus side is that she can travel at short notice and there would be no need to go through the process every time she wishes to travel.

[cornishcarlos]

2 hours ago, John Richards said:

Nope - hadn't heard of it but just looked it up on here - thanks

 

Helps me but isn't going to help on the paperwork front for her coming into UK and the insane hoops you have to jump through. Plus if we did it every year its surely a matter of time before they start rejecting them I would have thought. Thing is we don't want to live permanently in either country !

 

It's a 10 year multi entry, so why would you be doing it every year ??

Maybe do more research before coming on here...

[John Richards]

48 minutes ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

It's a 10 year multi entry, so why would you be doing it every year ??

Maybe do more research before coming on here...

Apologies - I'll ask for your permission next time I want to post something

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by John Richards

[John Richards]

3 hours ago, theoldgit said:

No there isn't another visa type that really fits in with your needs, this is a question that's often asked, it will be no consolation to you but there are many that are in the same position of considering our options, including us, my wife went as far as taking the English test when we were in the UK a couple of years ago, but we're still here.

 

You've suggested continuing to use the regular visit route, and cornishcarlos suggests applying for the longer term visit visa, that's fine but, as you've indicated, you might encounter problems.

 

The six months here and six months in the UK is fine, especially if your wife was granted a longer term visit visa, though your wife would need to satisfy the Border Force Officer every time she presented herself at the UK Border that she remained a genuine visitor, and was not using the visit visa for extended periods to live in the UK, six month visits could be seen either way.

 

The longer term visit visa that CC suggests is designed for those who can demonstrate that they have a compelling reason to visit the UK over an extended period, I understand that the UKVI are often content to issue visas for applicants in a similar position as your wife, but it's not a given. Longer term visas are expensive,  US$832 for a five year visa and US$1043 for a ten year, and if the ECO only decides to issue a six month visa there is no rebate of the extra cost. The plus side is that she can travel at short notice and there would be no need to go through the process every time she wishes to travel.

Cheers - appreciate the reply. Money isn't a massive consideration at those levels so will look into that

[cornishcarlos]

2 minutes ago, John Richards said:

What ? 

 

Maybe READ and understand the question before telling me what I can and can't do !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I read the question and gave you 1 option that would take 2 mins to find yourself...

Good luck

[John Richards]

Found this oldgit which concurs with you

 

And along with the premise, the person has built up a history of performance over a long period of time, like 10 years or so. You have had 3 visas over the course of 8 years, but to have an application taken seriously you would need about a dozen over that time and all for the same reason.

Based upon what you wrote you will have difficulty establishing both premise and performance, so it's fair to be pessimistic about the outlook.

You can always apply however; it's simply a matter of checking the appropriate box and paying the fee. If they decide you do not qualify for a 10 year visa, they will work their way down the line looking for something you do qualify for until they get to the standard 6 month visa. If you qualify, you'll get the standard 6 month visa and they will keep the difference in fee.

 

I did find something that says if you own an aircraft that's registered in the UK that's a reason to get a 10 year - so I'll look out for an old battered tiger moth on my travels ! 

 

Wouldn't it be a great system if there was an interview process where they then told you what they were willing to allow and the fee is 'x' !

[John Richards]

I realise I may be talking to myself now, no change there, but this has confused me 

 

Your visa may be cancelled and you may get a long-term ban on visiting if your travel history shows you’re repeatedly living in the UK for extended periods.

 

Yet it appears to be a requirement that you have built up a history of (up to) 6 month visits over a shortish time to be taken seriously for a longer visa ! Appears to be a dangerous tightrope walking exercise !

[theoldgit]

Yes, there is always a danger of over reading or thinking, I do it all the time.

 

The guidance to ECO's says:

 

Frequent or successive visits: how to assess if an
applicant is making the UK their main home or place of
work
See paragraph V 4.2(b) of the visitor rules.
You should check the applicant’s travel history: how long are they spending in the
UK and how frequently are they returning? You must assess if they are, in effect,
making the UK their main home.
You should look at:
• the purpose of the visit and intended length of stay stated
• the number of visits made over the past 12 months, including the length of stay
on each occasion, the time elapsed since the last visit, and if this amounts to
the individual spending more time in the UK than in their home country
Page 11 of 52 Published for Home Office staff on 08 January 2016
• the purpose of return trips to the visitor’s home country and if this is used only
to seek re-entry to the UK
• the links they have with their home country-consider especially any long term
commitments and where the applicant is registered for tax purposes
• evidence the UK is their main place of residence, for example
o if they have registered with a general practitioner (GP)
o send their children to UK schools
• the history of previous applications, for example if the visitor has previously
been refused under the family rules and subsequently wants to enter as a
visitor you must assess if they are using the visitor route to avoid the rules in
place for family migrants joining British or settled persons in the UK
There is no specified maximum period which an individual can spend in the UK in
any period such as ‘6 months in 12 months’. However, if it is clear from an
individual’s travel history that they are making the UK their home you should refuse
their application.

 

It's worth noting that a Border Force Officer wouldn't be able to deny landing and subsequent cancel a visa on their own, they would need to convince their manager, Chief Immigration Officer in old speak now at least a Border Force Higher Manager, that your wife is attempting to use visit visas in an attempt to circumnavigate the settlement route and make the UK her home. You would be given the opportunity to put the case, which you would have done in the original application.
 

[John Richards]

Cheers oldgit - thats very interesting and has sort of comforted me we are sailing the right side of the line - I did on one visit have to really bite my tongue when the guy checking her passport scared the crap out of her by walking off with it, leaving a piece of paper saying denial of entry (found out later this is just admin while he has her passport) then wandered off for half hour.

 

He then called me over as I was waiting behind the passport checks in the terminal, proceeded to ask me 3 or 4 aggressive sounding questions and then told her to have a nice holiday. If I hadn't so happened I had her return ticket on me I swear we could have been doomed!

 

Fighting the urge to thump the scrot - I did ask him why he would have doubts that the British Embassy didn't have but decided not to pursue it for obvious reasons.

 

Still there will be a 10 month gap between visits next time so should be ok and of course a marriage certificate !!

 

Same old problem, give someone a uniform .....

 

PS I'm shocked I've mentioned several times marrying a Thai and I haven't been hit with a barrage of she's going to sell your kidneys, buy a lambo, purchase 2,000 buffaloes yet - the forum must be maturing ! 

[7by7]

20 hours ago, John Richards said:

Fighting the urge to thump the scrot - I did ask him why he would have doubts that the British Embassy didn't have but decided not to pursue it for obvious reasons.

A visa simply allows the holder to travel to a UK port of entry, where UK Border Force make the final decision whether to allow entry or not. Even nationalities who do not require a visit visa in advance, e.g. Australians, can be denied entry if UK Border Force decide they do not meet the requirements for visitors.

 

The officer who saw your wife for some reason decided that further checks were needed before he could grant her entry. This may have been due to her being a frequent visitor travelling with her British husband, so he considered she may have been using frequent and regular visits for de facto UK residence, possibly because of the way she answered his initial questions, as you say you weren't there at that point; it may simply have been a random check; it may have been some other reason.

 

I'm sure that you and your wife had, and have, no intention of breaking the rules; but the Border Force officer did not know that.

 

As theoldgit says, he could not have made a decision to deny entry on his own, but had to check with his superior; hence his 'wandering off' to discuss her case with his superior so they could make a joint decision on whether to allow or deny entry. Fortunately common sense prevailed and they allowed.

 

20 hours ago, John Richards said:

He then called me over as I was waiting behind the passport checks in the terminal,

As an aside, I suggest that next time you and your wife pass through UK immigration together. That way you will be with her if she is questioned and will know exactly what is said by whom, and also be able to assist her with her answers. As she is travelling with you, she can join the UK/EU line with you, or you can join the Non UK/EU line with her; whichever is the shorter.

 

 

[rasg]

21 hours ago, John Richards said:

PS I'm shocked I've mentioned several times marrying a Thai and I haven't been hit with a barrage of she's going to sell your kidneys, buy a lambo, purchase 2,000 buffaloes yet - the forum must be maturing ! 

Maturing? Not really. Probably busy after the Bank holiday.