Thailand's former PM Yingluck fled to Dubai - senior party members

[Kieran00001]

Just now, halloween said:

Well you skipped the corrupt computer contract and went straight to "granted a monopoly" like that happens every day, without corruption and bribes. Well done. Now if you accept that there was corruption involved, rather than being kissed by the Lucky Fairy, then look at the overcharging and over-pricing for handsets, you might get an idea what I am calling theft. 

 

No, it is you who suspect corruption, I called it cronyism like it was, and actually deals like that do go on between old friends every day, the bribes being your embellishment to the story, all over the world old boys help each other out without want for payment, have you never done anything for a friend without receiving a cash payment?  And as there are no anti monopoly laws in Thailand, the deal he recieved, like deals CP has received along with countless others in Thailand, are all perfectly legal. Cronyism alone is in no way considered corrupt in Thailand, just ask Prayut.  Anyway, I now see that you were calling something theft that actually wasn't, it was just the monopoly, not much point in having a monopoly if you not going to milk it, but that does not equate to theft in any ones mind but the desperate to disparage.

[jerome2]

great i hope she is safe 

the most beautifull and courageous chief of state

the ones who should have been jailed are the organizers of theses hateful demonstrations in front of her child school.

For a country that love children , it was a shame.

[jing jing]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

If you agree King Power, CP, Thai Bev and many others  are "stealing from the Thai people" then your argument might hold.I don't agree.Truth is all have legitimate businesses with real assets and P and L accounts doing useful stuff.Same applied to Thaksin.Yes Thailand business tends to be too monopolistic and business ethics are dubious.Corruption isn't uncommon.That's not the same as stealing from the Thai people.I suggest you focus on  bureaucrats and military people who have massive assets and tiny incomes:that's stealing from the Thai people in my book.

Thaksin's undoing was when he flatly refused to pay even a single satang of tax on the multibillion dollar sale of his monopolistic, state granted business concession.

 

I find it amusing when his acolytes go on about the Sino-thai elite and the amart, as if he wasn't a card carrying member of that club.  What got him kicked out was the megalomania, the absolute refusal to make any room at the trough for anyone but himself, his family, and his supporters.

 

He was admonished from "above" on a number of occasions but paid no heed.  Prior to his ouster he was in the process of dismantling the Constitution and rewriting it in such a fashion as to guarantee his clan a thousand year reign, and if you don't believe that, maybe best to go do a little more research.

Edited August 26, 2017 by jing jing

[halloween]

9 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

No, it is you who suspect corruption, I called it cronyism like it was, and actually deals like that do go on between old friends every day, the bribes being your embellishment to the story, all over the world old boys help each other out without want for payment, have you never done anything for a friend without receiving a cash payment?  And as there are no anti monopoly laws in Thailand, the deal he recieved, like deals CP has received along with countless others in Thailand, are all perfectly legal. Cronyism alone is in no way considered corrupt in Thailand, just ask Prayut.  Anyway, I now see that you were calling something theft that actually wasn't, it was just the monopoly, not much point in having a monopoly if you not going to milk it, but that does not equate to theft in any ones mind but the desperate to disparage.

So, kissed by the Lucky Fairy is your version. Here mate, I can see you're in debt for B50 million, here's a 20 year monopoly on the fastest growing industry in the world worth billions of dollars. Would I like to be DPM?

[Kieran00001]

4 minutes ago, halloween said:

So, kissed by the Lucky Fairy is your version. Here mate, I can see you're in debt for B50 million, here's a 20 year monopoly on the fastest growing industry in the world worth billions of dollars. Would I like to be DPM?

 

And he replied, yes you can be DPM but you have to wait 22 years and be my sisters, see the slight flaw in your reckoning?

[jayboy]

Thaksin's undoing was when he flatly refused to pay even a single satang of tax on the multibillion dollar sale of his monopolistic, state granted business concession.
 
I find it amusing when his acolytes go on about the Sino-thai elite and the amart, as if he wasn't a card carrying member of that club.  What got him kicked out was the megalomania, the absolute refusal to make any room at the trough for anyone but himself, his family, and his supporters.
 
He was admonished from "above" on a number of occasions but paid no heed.  Prior to his ouster he was in the process of dismantling the Constitution and rewriting it in such a fashion as to guarantee his clan a thousand year reign, and if you don't believe that, maybe best to go do a little more research.

I have often stressed that Thaksin is a card carrying member of the Sino Thai tycoon class.You have a point about his megalomania and taking up too much room at the trough.The amart is something rather different and Thaksin is certainly not a member.

Your last paragraph is just hysterical nonsense.Do some homework- that means reading respected authorities not Cartalucci type junk.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Kieran00001]

11 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

I have often stressed that Thaksin is a card carrying member of the Sino Thai tycoon class.You have a point about his megalomania and taking up too much room at the trough.The amart is something rather different and Thaksin is certainly not a member.

Your last paragraph is just hysterical nonsense.Do some homework- that means reading respected authorities not Cartalucci type junk.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

How is the son of a princess not amart?  Thailand only annexed their kingdom 100 years ago and only stripped them of their titles 60 years ago.

[rgraham]

Shocking, yawn!

 

[toddsaed]

the do nothing US is as criminal as the govt,  helping poor farmers

is a crime of course to these kleptocrats, bullies, war criminals, and shysters

[jing jing]

46 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

I have often stressed that Thaksin is a card carrying member of the Sino Thai tycoon class.You have a point about his megalomania and taking up too much room at the trough.The amart is something rather different and Thaksin is certainly not a member.

Your last paragraph is just hysterical nonsense.Do some homework- that means reading respected authorities not Cartalucci type junk.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Elite and amart (อำมาตย์) are essentially synonymous.

 

I admit to possibly using a bit of hyperbole in describing his Machiavellian attempts to assure an indefinite reign of power ... but not very much.

[sjaak327]

1 hour ago, jing jing said:

Thaksin's undoing was when he flatly refused to pay even a single satang of tax on the multibillion dollar sale of his monopolistic, state granted business concession.

 

I find it amusing when his acolytes go on about the Sino-thai elite and the amart, as if he wasn't a card carrying member of that club.  What got him kicked out was the megalomania, the absolute refusal to make any room at the trough for anyone but himself, his family, and his supporters.

 

He was admonished from "above" on a number of occasions but paid no heed.  Prior to his ouster he was in the process of dismantling the Constitution and rewriting it in such a fashion as to guarantee his clan a thousand year reign, and if you don't believe that, maybe best to go do a little more research.

 

Dismantling the 1997 constitution ? Can you present even the slightest shread of evidence to back up that claim. Complete and utter nonsense. The junta of 2006 and the current one did indeed just that, Thaksin never did, and never needed to do such a thing anyway, not with the support he enjoyed and probably still enjoys...

 

Oh and prior to his ouster he was in care taker status, he would not be able to do such a thing in any case...

 

He was ousted whilst elections were already scheduled, pretty much in the same way as Yingluck's government was ousted, with elections already scheduled. We all know why, can't have those pesky Thai's deciding who should run their country, much better to have a few incompetent corrupt generals run it...

Edited August 26, 2017 by sjaak327

[TheLobster]

32 minutes ago, toddsaed said:

the do nothing US is as criminal as the govt,  helping poor farmers

is a crime of course to these kleptocrats, bullies, war criminals, and shysters

Attempting to redistribute wealth is clearly a criminal offence according to the current regime.

 

Not all pigs are equal.

[bbpbbp]

Wish her the best and to never come back to this ridiculous country ! If I could cheat and rob as much as this family, I would escape and also never visit again !

 

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by bbpbbp

[observer90210]

15 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Good for her!

 

All through history people have fled when confronted with unfair persecution.

 

The interesting question is whether she will be activating her FB account...

Wonder if she filed for a re-entry permit before leaving?

[scunner]

So how much did that rice [support scheme / scam / boondoogle / whatever] end up costing the poor old taxpayer in the end?

 

I've been off the site for a number of years, but the last time I was here, the news section was full of reports of graft, sweetheart deals and thousands of metric tonnes of rice rotting in warehouses . So I assume we're talking billions of £'s here at the very least - right or wrong?

[sjaak327]

7 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Wonder if she filed for a re-entry permit before leaving?

She does not need a re-entry permit...

[nasanews]

Is this the way fair trials are made!

Shame on you Shinawatra basher.

[jing jing]

1 hour ago, sjaak327 said:

 

Dismantling the 1997 constitution ? Can you present even the slightest shread of evidence to back up that claim. Complete and utter nonsense. The junta of 2006 and the current one did indeed just that, Thaksin never did, and never needed to do such a thing anyway, not with the support he enjoyed and probably still enjoys...

 

Oh and prior to his ouster he was in care taker status, he would not be able to do such a thing in any case...

 

He was ousted whilst elections were already scheduled, pretty much in the same way as Yingluck's government was ousted, with elections already scheduled. We all know why, can't have those pesky Thai's deciding who should run their country, much better to have a few incompetent corrupt generals run it...

I will concede that "dismantle" is less accurate than "exploit" would be in describing Thaksin's treatment of the 1997 Constitution.  

 

Inthe words of researcher Bjoem Dressel:

 

Scholars have differed in their answers to the question of why 
the 1997 Constitution failed. Some consider the political reform 
coalition, which brought together an unusual mix of liberal academics, 
reform-oriented technocrats and civil society activists, to have 
been unstable. The coalition, which had to overcome considerable 
resistance from conservative elements, not only produced a somewhat 
contradictory draft but also failed to sustain the reform momentum 
after the Constitution was promulgated, leaving it with little support 
beyond the urban reform constituency.
Other scholars consider the institutional framework to have 
been too ambitious, if not an outright design failure. They cite the 
dysfunctional workings of oversight agencies, particularly the Senate, 
which though supposedly neutral quickly became home to the wives, 
children and relatives of leading politicians, a development that 
effectively neutralized any checks and balances on the executive 
branch.  Finally, a popular line of argument in Thailand blamed 
the personality of the executive, arguing that Thaksin and his 
brand of business populism showed little inclination to honour 
the constitutional rules. In actively seeking to undermine them, 
he demonstrated the weakness of democratic political culture in 
Thailand.
 

[sjaak327]

8 minutes ago, jing jing said:

I will concede that "dismantle" is less accurate than "exploit" would be in describing Thaksin's treatment of the 1997 Constitution.  

 

Inthe words of researcher Bjoem Dressel:

 

Scholars have differed in their answers to the question of why 
the 1997 Constitution failed. Some consider the political reform 
coalition, which brought together an unusual mix of liberal academics, 
reform-oriented technocrats and civil society activists, to have 
been unstable. The coalition, which had to overcome considerable 
resistance from conservative elements, not only produced a somewhat 
contradictory draft but also failed to sustain the reform momentum 
after the Constitution was promulgated, leaving it with little support 
beyond the urban reform constituency.
Other scholars consider the institutional framework to have 
been too ambitious, if not an outright design failure. They cite the 
dysfunctional workings of oversight agencies, particularly the Senate, 
which though supposedly neutral quickly became home to the wives, 
children and relatives of leading politicians, a development that 
effectively neutralized any checks and balances on the executive 
branch.  Finally, a popular line of argument in Thailand blamed 
the personality of the executive, arguing that Thaksin and his 
brand of business populism showed little inclination to honour 
the constitutional rules. In actively seeking to undermine them, 
he demonstrated the weakness of democratic political culture in 
Thailand.
 

A senate with a political agenda is the every day reality in my country (The Netherlands) and since all senators are elected (indirectly) this is no problem whatsoever. The same was true for the senate under the 1997 constitution. A constitution that cannot be changed or amended by people with a mandate is a design flaw. There was nothing wrong with the 1997 constitution, and the best thing that could happen to Thailand is a reinstatement of that constitution. 

 

I understand, in Thailand, a mandate is not respected, just because some people (we all know who) seem to think the electorate is "uneducated" or "being bought". I cannot think of a bigger insult and I cannot think of a bigger inacurrate description of the actual situation. Disgraceful.

 

In any case, a politician with a undisputed mandate (which Thaksin received twice) should certainly be allowed to amend the consitution, he never did what you claimed, that much is absolutely certain. There is not a single shred of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Edited August 26, 2017 by sjaak327

[thedivezone]

15 minutes ago, scunner said:

So how much did that rice [support scheme / scam / boondoogle / whatever] end up costing the poor old taxpayer in the end?

 

I've been off the site for a number of years, but the last time I was here, the news section was full of reports of graft, sweetheart deals and thousands of metric tonnes of rice rotting in warehouses . So I assume we're talking billions of £'s here at the very least - right or wrong?

RIGHT! But these days nobody is allowed to report anything anymore, whether supporting or unsupporting of the current regime , so please crawl back under your rock and consult us again in another . . . .ohhh say 100 years.

 

[jing jing]

11 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

A senate with a political agenda is the every day reality in my country (The Netherlands) and since all senators are elected (indirectly) this is no problem whatsoever. The same was true for the senate under the 1997 constitution. A constitution that cannot be changed or amended by people with a mandate is a design flaw. There was nothing wrong with the 1997 constitution, and the best thing that could happen to Thailand is a reinstatement of that constitution. 

 

I understand, in Thailand, a mandate is not respected, just because some people (we all know who) seem to think the electorate is "uneducated" or "being bought". I cannot think of a bigger insult and I cannot think of a bigger inacurrate description of the actual situation. Disgraceful.

 

In any case, a politician with a undisputed mandate (which Thaksin received twice) should certainly be allowed to amend the consitution, he never did what you claimed, that much is absolutely certain. There is not a single shred of evidence to suggest otherwise.

Reasonable persons may disagree, but I maintain that Thaksin - indisputably cunning, shrewd, ruthless, and ambitious as he is - had found ways to exploit all the flaws in the new constitution and game the system, if you will.  He was consolidating power in such a way that no one could ever have opposed him or his proxies through the usual electoral process.  Whether or not that would have led to a better or worse situation than the current one is open to speculation but I suspect the latter.

[sjaak327]

2 minutes ago, jing jing said:

Reasonable persons may disagree, but I maintain that Thaksin - indisputably cunning, shrewd, ruthless, and ambitious as he is - had found ways to exploit all the flaws in the new constitution and game the system, if you will.  He was consolidating power in such a way that no one could ever have opposed him or his proxies through the usual electoral process.  Whether or not that would have led to a better or worse situation than the current one is open to speculation but I suspect the latter.

His power base was based solely on an electoral basis. He would have been out of a job if someone would manage to gain more votes, that IS the reality. That no-one to date has managed to do just that, is not to be blamed on Thaksin, the opposition simply does not appeal to enough Thai citizens to make that difference. 

 

In any case, the situtation has become progressively worse, up to a point that it doesn't even really matter if someone defeats PT. The current constitution has made elections inconsequential. 

[jing jing]

2 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

His power base was based solely on an electoral basis. He would have been out of a job if someone would manage to gain more votes, that IS the reality. That no-one to date has managed to do just that, is not to be blamed on Thaksin, the opposition simply does not appeal to enough Thai citizens to make that difference. 

 

In any case, the situtation has become progressively worse, up to a point that it doesn't even really matter if someone defeats PT. The current constitution has made elections inconsequential. 

History is replete with despots who came to power more or less through democratic means.  One needn't go back all that far in European history to find an example.  I'm sure Thaksin's golfing buddy and political soulmate Hun Sen could put together an electoral majority too, if necessary.

 

Thaksin's populist programs were conceived not out of an altruistic desire to help the poor better their lot, but to guarantee his own stranglehold on power.  It was his plan, in my opinion, to become even more loved by the common people than anyone else in the Kingdom, and in Thailand, we all know what that means.  Any comparison to the Netherlands is simply preposterous.

 

 

[sjaak327]

16 minutes ago, jing jing said:

History is replete with despots who came to power more or less through democratic means.  One needn't go back all that far in European history to find an example.  I'm sure Thaksin's golfing buddy and political soulmate Hun Sen could put together an electoral majority too, if necessary.

 

Thaksin's populist programs were conceived not out of an altruistic desire to help the poor better their lot, but to guarantee his own stranglehold on power.  It was his plan, in my opinion, to become even more loved by the common people than anyone else in the Kingdom, and in Thailand, we all know what that means.  Any comparison to the Netherlands is simply preposterous.

 

 

Oh, nowhere did I claim he was a saint. Quite the opposite. However, things did most definitely improve under his tenure.

 

Much more than what we are currently seeing. Like it or not, I am a democrat, and I believe in the right of people to choose whoever they deem fit to run their country. Even if it is a corrupt bastard such as Thaksin.

 

One thing is for sure, the current lot are equally bad, but never obtained a mandate, they just took power at gunpoint. Liberties that were normal under previous goverments have vanished into thin air. 

 

There is ZERO accountability at the moment, and to round it all up, the amnesty bill that was introduced by Yingluck's governement, that never actually came into reality has been utterly and totally dwarfed by the amnesty the NCPO awarded themselves, all with not a single member of the Thai elecotorate casting a vote. Strangly the people screaming bloody murder about Yinglucks's amnesty bill, are suspiciously silent now. Especially since the current amnesty is targetting only a select number of people, and even includes future transgressions. A case of hypocricy that is just utterly shameful.

 

Are you really sure things have not become worse, if so, I think it is time to wake the hell up.

Edited August 26, 2017 by sjaak327

[jing jing]

2 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Oh, nowhere did I claim he was a saint. Quite the opposite. However, things did most definitely improve under his tenure.

 

Much more than what we are currently seeing. Like it or not, I am a democrat, and I believe in the right of people to choose whoever they deem fit to run their country. Even if it is a corrupt bastard such as Thaksin.

 

One thing is for sure, the current lot are equally bad, but never obtained a mandate, they just took power at gunpoint. Liberties that were normal under previous goverments have vanished into thin air. 

 

There is ZERO accountability at the moment, and to round it all up, the amnesty bill that was introduced by Yingluck's goverement, that never actually came into reality has been utterly and totally dwarfed by the amnesty the NCPO awarded themselves, all with not a single member of the Thai elecotorate casting a vote. 

 

Are you really sure things have not become worse, if so, I think it is time to wake the hell up.

For me personally, the corruption was working to my advantage.  Nothing lasts forever.  I do rather miss the way it was :-)

[kiwikeith]

18 hours ago, seajae said:

the only ones that flee are the criminal elements that are guilty and do not want to be locked up, has nothing to do with being innocent. This was all about money and jail time, she is the same as thaksin, think they are above the law and will never accept any guilt for what they have done, can only hope karma gets both of them

And meanwhile, the show goes on, corruption thrives, the only difference is the divvy up might be altered .

Personally, things seem to have got worse under the regime, corruption is a world wide problem in all governments-- politicians are puppets for the giant corporations that run havoc amongst us 

[inThailand]

6 hours ago, srchino said:

Let's be honest with ourselves, if Thailand were actually a land where justice and morals were applied fairly and consistently, or at all for that matter, none of us would probably be here. On average, we all benefit handsomely and often from the relativistic application of law and morality here in Thailand.

I for one am thoroughly enjoying the season finale to Thai Justice Theatre, what a twist!

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming of Thai Democracy/Security Theatre....

I too enjoy Thai Game of Thrones. The true reality comedy show.

[Grumpy Duck]

13 hours ago, eggers said:

Reported was assisted to leave country by Gov't, to avoid possible problems if found guilty & jailed...

 

 

Would seem the Shinawatra rein in Thailand has finished & Pheu Thai party will struggle to survive, as supporters will feel cheated & let down by this criminal pair they trusted!!

 

I doubt the people of Thailand feel let down by the Shinawatras I am certain they understand the underhanded meathods of the present leaders. And when elections are again postponed it will be even more obvious. 

[thedivezone]

46 minutes ago, inThailand said:

I too enjoy Thai Game of Thrones. The true reality comedy show.

Of course you do, neither of you two blokes have kids growing up in this h.....e.

[Thechook]

2 minutes ago, Grumpy Duck said:

I doubt the people of Thailand feel let down by the Shinawatras I am certain they understand the underhanded meathods of the present leaders. And when elections are again postponed it will be even more obvious. 

There is absolutely no excuse to postpone an election now unless Thaksin's grandchildren are giving Prayuth nightmares.