Gay Farangs In My Condo

[yoshiwara]

The over-riding issue is whether you are convinced you have a tenant who is a security risk for whatever reason. If that is the case then just don't renew his lease. Forget the other stuff.

[wilko]

I'm pretty sure those stats above are for murders committed by firearms...not armed robbery.

[RAMPAGE]

I am a member of my own condo's juristic person's committee and it has recently brought to my attention that there was an attempted burglary in my condo last month. And we have a reason to believe that the burglar was attempting to break in to the room of a farang resident/owner who's rumored to be a gay and appeared to have been awake in his room at 4AM in the morning, and the burglar was waiting for him to go to bed at the balcony of the unit next to his. Awaken and alarmed by the noise from the balcony, the Thai neighbor of his opened the curtain of her bedroom and came almost face to face with the burglar over the window, at which point the intruder immediately fled the scene by jumping off the balcony (2nd floor) and over the fence next to it and escaped.

This frightened Thai lady was brought to the nearest police station next morning and was shown an album of photographs of men known to have history of arrest for theft (in my area) from which she could positively identify the burglar whom the police knew as a man working as a bar boy at a gay bar called Babylon.

The farang man next door whose unit we believe the burglar was targeting at denied this having anything to do with him and refused to cooperate in investigation (so I heard) but it has been brought to my attention quite a few times before that this man is rumored to be a gay and has in the past on numerous times brought young Asian men whose appearance can only be described as bar boy (different men each time). Some of the committee members have already expressed dissatisfaction over farang tenants/residents (not only him) bringing bar boys and girls into our condo late at night, and letting them walk through the common area alone on their way home where even the security guards don't have the access (building hallways etc, beyond ground floor lobby).

Now, the committee will have a bimonthly meeting next week and this matter will surely be on the agenda. I have discussed this matter with our committee chairman the other day and learned he intends to suggest that we issue waring letters to each and every single suspected household in our condo not to invite any strangers and dubious characters they picked from the entertainment venues into the condo premises for one-night stand (or whatever, bar boy or bar girl). But I have warned him to be extremely careful with the wording of such a letter as they all have equal right to invite anyone just as we Thais invite our friends and families as we please, especially if they are unit owners, and we can't treat them as if they are sex tourists frequenting entertainment venues preying on young bar boys when we don't know who they are and what they do behind closed doors. Yet it has been reported more than once before those who are believed to be bar boy/girl types companions of the farang residents was seen in the condo parking lot as if s/he was picking on which car to burglarize (recorded on CCTV camera). So it seems our Thai committee chairman is adamant in issuing such warnings to farang residents whom we believe it may concern.

Now, how do I tell them not to bring bar boys (and girls) to the condo premises without offending them? Or for that matter is that a right thing to do (especially when we couldn't even convince those tenants/owners who keep dogs and cats against the condo pocliy to get rid of them, let alone humans)?

You have no right to act as judge and jury of your neighbour's morals. I am chairman of my condominium owner's association and were I faced with your problem I would insist that the security guards take the ID card of any person (Thai or otherwise) entering the building, either alone or accompanied by a tenant. This will act as a deterrent to the sort of shenanigans to which you refer.

Secondly, I would send a letter to ALL tenants/owners (not just the ones we suspect are gay) outlining to them the advantages of a good security system and the disadvantages of allowing persons unknown to them to wander about the premises unaccompanied. I daresay no one is willing to pay the price of losing a computer, camera, stereo, etc. just for the sake of 20 minutes in the sack. The people who invite boys or girls back are the ones most at risk and this should be pointed out to them,obvious though it may seem.

[mrdome]

...it has been brought to my attention quite a few times before that this man is rumored to be a gay and has in the past on numerous times brought young Asian men whose appearance can only be described as bar boy (different men each time) ...

Oh, the humanity!! And different men each time!!! What is this world coming to? I urge you to act quickly before this disease spreads and such 'people' post as members of our own families, co-workers, friends, etc. Perish the thought.

Yours in solidarity,

mrdome

[pkrv]

The over-riding issue is whether you are convinced you have a tenant who is a security risk for whatever reason. If that is the case then just don't renew his lease. Forget the other stuff.

But of course my Petits Pois the security risks are now absolutely understood, you little ravishing turnip you. (Turnips are of course forbidden).

For example if you allowed 14 million women to be butchered, their high priest apologise for it, and getaway with it what would you think?

These are difficult issues covering all cultures, security is now paramount. No one should be allowed to steal/rape any other of life, spirit or money.

PLEASE EXCUE THE MONTY PYTHON ESQUE RESONSE…

[DragonQuest]

i DONT MEAN TO BE A PEST BUT in my condo i see two guys living together, smoking together and working out together, does that mean they are gay? i havent seen them with any girls yet...... and there seems to be another 2 guys that live together also, just curious thx

[wilko]

I am a member of my own condo's juristic person's committee and it has recently brought to my attention that there was an attempted burglary in my condo last month. And we have a reason to believe that the burglar was attempting to break in to the room of a farang resident/owner who's rumored to be a gay and appeared to have been awake in his room at 4AM in the morning, and the burglar was waiting for him to go to bed at the balcony of the unit next to his. Awaken and alarmed by the noise from the balcony, the Thai neighbor of his opened the curtain of her bedroom and came almost face to face with the burglar over the window, at which point the intruder immediately fled the scene by jumping off the balcony (2nd floor) and over the fence next to it and escaped.

This frightened Thai lady was brought to the nearest police station next morning and was shown an album of photographs of men known to have history of arrest for theft (in my area) from which she could positively identify the burglar whom the police knew as a man working as a bar boy at a gay bar called Babylon.

The farang man next door whose unit we believe the burglar was targeting at denied this having anything to do with him and refused to cooperate in investigation (so I heard) but it has been brought to my attention quite a few times before that this man is rumored to be a gay and has in the past on numerous times brought young Asian men whose appearance can only be described as bar boy (different men each time). Some of the committee members have already expressed dissatisfaction over farang tenants/residents (not only him) bringing bar boys and girls into our condo late at night, and letting them walk through the common area alone on their way home where even the security guards don't have the access (building hallways etc, beyond ground floor lobby).

Now, the committee will have a bimonthly meeting next week and this matter will surely be on the agenda. I have discussed this matter with our committee chairman the other day and learned he intends to suggest that we issue waring letters to each and every single suspected household in our condo not to invite any strangers and dubious characters they picked from the entertainment venues into the condo premises for one-night stand (or whatever, bar boy or bar girl). But I have warned him to be extremely careful with the wording of such a letter as they all have equal right to invite anyone just as we Thais invite our friends and families as we please, especially if they are unit owners, and we can't treat them as if they are sex tourists frequenting entertainment venues preying on young bar boys when we don't know who they are and what they do behind closed doors. Yet it has been reported more than once before those who are believed to be bar boy/girl types companions of the farang residents was seen in the condo parking lot as if s/he was picking on which car to burglarize (recorded on CCTV camera). So it seems our Thai committee chairman is adamant in issuing such warnings to farang residents whom we believe it may concern.

Now, how do I tell them not to bring bar boys (and girls) to the condo premises without offending them? Or for that matter is that a right thing to do (especially when we couldn't even convince those tenants/owners who keep dogs and cats against the condo pocliy to get rid of them, let alone humans)?

You have no right to act as judge and jury of your neighbour's morals. I am chairman of my condominium owner's association and were I faced with your problem I would insist that the security guards take the ID card of any person (Thai or otherwise) entering the building, either alone or accompanied by a tenant. This will act as a deterrent to the sort of shenanigans to which you refer.

Secondly, I would send a letter to ALL tenants/owners (not just the ones we suspect are gay) outlining to them the advantages of a good security system and the disadvantages of allowing persons unknown to them to wander about the premises unaccompanied. I daresay no one is willing to pay the price of losing a computer, camera, stereo, etc. just for the sake of 20 minutes in the sack. The people who invite boys or girls back are the ones most at risk and this should be pointed out to them,obvious though it may seem.

Hear! Hear!

Of course the "logical" explanation that more males are burglars etc doesn't hold water either. Anyone you invite into your home could be casing the joint...in fact if you let your prejudices rule your thinking on this you will probably end up more at risk because you won't be checking out the bleeding obvious.

[jdinasia]

I am a member of my own condo's juristic person's committee and it has recently brought to my attention that there was an attempted burglary in my condo last month. And we have a reason to believe that the burglar was attempting to break in to the room of a farang resident/owner who's rumored to be a gay and appeared to have been awake in his room at 4AM in the morning, and the burglar was waiting for him to go to bed at the balcony of the unit next to his. Awaken and alarmed by the noise from the balcony, the Thai neighbor of his opened the curtain of her bedroom and came almost face to face with the burglar over the window, at which point the intruder immediately fled the scene by jumping off the balcony (2nd floor) and over the fence next to it and escaped.

This frightened Thai lady was brought to the nearest police station next morning and was shown an album of photographs of men known to have history of arrest for theft (in my area) from which she could positively identify the burglar whom the police knew as a man working as a bar boy at a gay bar called Babylon.

The farang man next door whose unit we believe the burglar was targeting at denied this having anything to do with him and refused to cooperate in investigation (so I heard) but it has been brought to my attention quite a few times before that this man is rumored to be a gay and has in the past on numerous times brought young Asian men whose appearance can only be described as bar boy (different men each time). Some of the committee members have already expressed dissatisfaction over farang tenants/residents (not only him) bringing bar boys and girls into our condo late at night, and letting them walk through the common area alone on their way home where even the security guards don't have the access (building hallways etc, beyond ground floor lobby).

Now, the committee will have a bimonthly meeting next week and this matter will surely be on the agenda. I have discussed this matter with our committee chairman the other day and learned he intends to suggest that we issue waring letters to each and every single suspected household in our condo not to invite any strangers and dubious characters they picked from the entertainment venues into the condo premises for one-night stand (or whatever, bar boy or bar girl). But I have warned him to be extremely careful with the wording of such a letter as they all have equal right to invite anyone just as we Thais invite our friends and families as we please, especially if they are unit owners, and we can't treat them as if they are sex tourists frequenting entertainment venues preying on young bar boys when we don't know who they are and what they do behind closed doors. Yet it has been reported more than once before those who are believed to be bar boy/girl types companions of the farang residents was seen in the condo parking lot as if s/he was picking on which car to burglarize (recorded on CCTV camera). So it seems our Thai committee chairman is adamant in issuing such warnings to farang residents whom we believe it may concern.

Now, how do I tell them not to bring bar boys (and girls) to the condo premises without offending them? Or for that matter is that a right thing to do (especially when we couldn't even convince those tenants/owners who keep dogs and cats against the condo pocliy to get rid of them, let alone humans)?

Well to address the inaccuracies first ... Babylon is a Sauna ... has no "Bar Boys" working there and never has. It has been known world wide for decades.

Second ... No you cannot tell people who they may allow into the property they own. You COULD ask security to copy everyone's ID's that are not residents but it would have to be applied evenly. Should you bring the CEO of a company you do business with to your home, he would have to provide ID too

So basically ... no it is not your job, nor your right, nor within your moral authority to tell adults what to do in their condo.

[thaigene2]

Strongly disagree with you jdinasia.

The people that live in that building have every right in the world to restrict entry and/or vett people coming in and out of THEIR condo building. Would you think it okay if the guy was bringing kids into his condo and then inviting pedophile friends over to 'party' with them? What if he was dealing drugs? Wouldn't you want a say?

Edited January 25, 2007 by thaigene2

[PeaceBlondie]

thaigene, you and jdinasia have different points, and your example is of a case that breaks Thai law far more than the opening post (bringing in questionable, adult, consenting sex workers, supposedly, allegedly, maybe). The OP appears to have been trolling, and jdinasia found yet more evidence of it just recently.

I put this thread into home ownership, so we could discuss the legalities, not the sex habits of the condo owners.

[ProThaiExpat]

Strongly disagree with you jdinasia.

The people that live in that building have every right in the world to restrict entry and/or vett people coming in and out of THEIR condo building. Would you think it okay if the guy was bringing kids into his condo and then inviting pedophile friends over to 'party' with them? What if he was dealing drugs? Wouldn't you want a say?

jdinasia certainly doesn't need me to defend his post, however, I have read his post more than once and yours as well and you don't seem to disagree in principle. jdinasia never said a condo board can control what goes on in an individaul unit.

To get pendantic and legal, the condo association/board has every right to control all common areas in a condo complex and regulate the activity there. Thus, sex in the common area whirlpool can be banned but not sex in an individual unit's whirlpool bath.

Since the rule making board is elected by the unit owners, if they get out of line or too restrictive, the remedy is voting them out of office.

Public scrutiny has a remarkable effect on public activity so I would use all means possible to apply access controls and common area cameras to regulate public behaviour, but once the individual unit door is closed, except for noise or smells eminating into public areas, anything goes. Of course, if the board detects illegal activity in an individual unit, such as child abuse, it has a duty to report it to the police.

When condo shopping, one is always discerning which are "good" buildings and this discernment is most often a relection of the quality of the boad and its ability to maintain the building, collect dues and regulate public area activity.

[astral]

i DONT MEAN TO BE A PEST BUT in my condo i see two guys living together, smoking together and working out together, does that mean they are gay? i havent seen them with any girls yet...... and there seems to be another 2 guys that live together also, just curious thx

Is it really any of your business????????

[elkangorito]

thaigene, you and jdinasia have different points, and your example is of a case that breaks Thai law far more than the opening post (bringing in questionable, adult, consenting sex workers, supposedly, allegedly, maybe). The OP appears to have been trolling, and jdinasia found yet more evidence of it just recently.

I put this thread into home ownership, so we could discuss the legalities, not the sex habits of the condo owners.

What's 'trolling'? I've seen this word used frequently on TV but still don't really know what it means.

BTW, I'm not being sarcastic...I genuinely want to know.

[pampal]

Hang on a moment. This is a security issue. I note that this topic is being heavily monitored and I can see why.

Gun crime in Thailand appears to be horriffic, security is paramount.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...arms-per-capita

#1 South Africa: 0.719782 per 1,000 people

#2 Colombia: 0.509801 per 1,000 people

#3 Thailand: 0.312093 per 1,000 people

#4 Zimbabwe: 0.0491736 per 1,000 people

#5 Mexico: 0.0337938 per 1,000 people

#6 Belarus: 0.0321359 per 1,000 people

#7 Costa Rica: 0.0313745 per 1,000 people

#8 United States: 0.0279271 per 1,000 people

#9 Uruguay: 0.0245902 per 1,000 people

#10 Lithuania: 0.0230748 per 1,000 people

If an apartment blocks security fails, and it appears to have done so not just here but also in shootings at a recent party, what recourse is there to fix the situation?

PKRV,

Look more closely at thailand's position in your post

#3 Thailand: 0.312093 per 1,000 people

Zimbabwe(0.0491736 per 1,000 people), Mexico(0.0337938 per 1,000 people), Belarus(0.0321359 per 1,000 people) and Costa Rica(0.0313745 per 1,000 people) have a higher average, but a lower ranking.

How can this be?

Serious doubts are raised about the validity of your source and the incorrect ranking of Thailand in 3rd place. Logically, Thailand would be ranked 7th and not 3rd.

[ashacat]

0

I just found this "zero", is anybody missing one?

Edited January 26, 2007 by ashacat

[pkrv]

0 I may have found that missing zero, possibly the data is correct?

IMO this is absolutely a distinct security issue. Perhaps another way of considering security is that it must apply to all equally.

For example some religions state "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Given that an individual may not subscribe in any way shape or form to a religion, yet be killed for worshiping one of the religions gods (normally one of the religions evil gods), we end up with situations where 14 million women are butchered. Not good news on the security front I think. Perhaps some people believe they are entitled to burst in and murder/intimidate people at will, and IMO some certainly seek justification for such actions.

In the above thread perhaps the new laws in the UK guaranteeing rights of Civil Partnership and provision of goods and services serves are example of thoughts and democratic argument in this area. If security is not guaranteed for all then it has failed for all (but a few), which I believe is the absolute intension of a few.

<I’ll add a personal comment which may be struck, but it is a point of security - If you say no to any religious point of view i.e. you do not consent, and that religious point of view is still imposed, are you not raped by those religion(s)? Security covers all or none, whether male, female, straight, gay, homeowner, tenant, religious, non-religious and anything else you can think of. Full stop>

[lomatopo]

Hang on a moment. This is a security issue. I note that this topic is being heavily monitored and I can see why.

Gun crime in Thailand appears to be horriffic, security is paramount.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...arms-per-capita

#1 South Africa: 0.719782 per 1,000 people

#2 Colombia: 0.509801 per 1,000 people

#3 Thailand: 0.312093 per 1,000 people

#4 Zimbabwe: 0.0491736 per 1,000 people

#5 Mexico: 0.0337938 per 1,000 people

#6 Belarus: 0.0321359 per 1,000 people

#7 Costa Rica: 0.0313745 per 1,000 people

#8 United States: 0.0279271 per 1,000 people

#9 Uruguay: 0.0245902 per 1,000 people

#10 Lithuania: 0.0230748 per 1,000 people

If an apartment blocks security fails, and it appears to have done so not just here but also in shootings at a recent party, what recourse is there to fix the situation?

PKRV,

Look more closely at thailand's position in your post

#3 Thailand: 0.312093 per 1,000 people

Zimbabwe(0.0491736 per 1,000 people), Mexico(0.0337938 per 1,000 people), Belarus(0.0321359 per 1,000 people) and Costa Rica(0.0313745 per 1,000 people) have a higher average, but a lower ranking.

How can this be?

Serious doubts are raised about the validity of your source and the incorrect ranking of Thailand in 3rd place. Logically, Thailand would be ranked 7th and not 3rd.

We've hashed through that NationMaster.com, murders by firearms statistic for Thailand extensively in another thread and the general concensus was that is was not accurate. It is based on a figure of 20,032 firearm murders in the measurement period (1998 - 2000), while the same site (from a U.N. report) reports a total of 5,140 murders. We assumed that later figure is correct and that the total number of firearm murders is perhaps no more than 50% (2,570) of that figure. That would put the per capita firearm murder rate in Thailand at ~ 0.0404/1,000, ranking Thailand #4, instead of #3, not that ranking is all that important.

Relevant to this thread, chances are if a murder is commmited during a burglary, and this would be extremely rare, it would not involve a firearm.

(Of course there was a recent burglary here in Bangkok, on New Years Eve, that did involve a firearm murder of a foreigner by a male Thai burgar!)

The per capita murder rate in Thailand ( 0.0800798 per 1,000 people), according to that report, is almost double that of the U.S.A.( 0.042802 per 1,000 people )

Who knows how accurate the original reporting and data were, or how things are currently?

[jdinasia]

Strongly disagree with you jdinasia.

The people that live in that building have every right in the world to restrict entry and/or vett people coming in and out of THEIR condo building. Would you think it okay if the guy was bringing kids into his condo and then inviting pedophile friends over to 'party' with them? What if he was dealing drugs? Wouldn't you want a say?

Apples and Oranges .. (not dismissing what else has been said by others). No the condo would not have the right to do anything to the person involved in your silliness ... OTHER than call the police. Try that because you think that the owner of a unit brought a hooker home from a bar .. they'll laugh their &lt;deleted&gt; off!

But remember the rest of my post ... Babylon does not employ sexworkers .. this is obvious trolling!

[DaveBKK]

PKRV,

Look more closely at thailand's position in your post

#3 Thailand: 0.312093 per 1,000 people

Zimbabwe(0.0491736 per 1,000 people), Mexico(0.0337938 per 1,000 people), Belarus(0.0321359 per 1,000 people) and Costa Rica(0.0313745 per 1,000 people) have a higher average, but a lower ranking.

How can this be?

Serious doubts are raised about the validity of your source and the incorrect ranking of Thailand in 3rd place. Logically, Thailand would be ranked 7th and not 3rd.

Pampal,

How do you figure .3 should be ranked below .04 and .03?

[pkrv]

Hang on a moment. This is a security issue. I note that this topic is being heavily monitored and I can see why.

Gun crime in Thailand appears to be horriffic, security is paramount.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_...arms-per-capita

#1 South Africa: 0.719782 per 1,000 people

#2 Colombia: 0.509801 per 1,000 people

#3 Thailand: 0.312093 per 1,000 people

#4 Zimbabwe: 0.0491736 per 1,000 people

#5 Mexico: 0.0337938 per 1,000 people

#6 Belarus: 0.0321359 per 1,000 people

#7 Costa Rica: 0.0313745 per 1,000 people

#8 United States: 0.0279271 per 1,000 people

#9 Uruguay: 0.0245902 per 1,000 people

#10 Lithuania: 0.0230748 per 1,000 people

If an apartment blocks security fails, and it appears to have done so not just here but also in shootings at a recent party, what recourse is there to fix the situation?

PKRV,

Look more closely at thailand's position in your post

#3 Thailand: 0.312093 per 1,000 people

Zimbabwe(0.0491736 per 1,000 people), Mexico(0.0337938 per 1,000 people), Belarus(0.0321359 per 1,000 people) and Costa Rica(0.0313745 per 1,000 people) have a higher average, but a lower ranking.

How can this be?

Serious doubts are raised about the validity of your source and the incorrect ranking of Thailand in 3rd place. Logically, Thailand would be ranked 7th and not 3rd.

We've hashed through that NationMaster.com, murders by firearms statistic for Thailand extensively in another thread and the general concensus was that is was not accurate. It is based on a figure of 20,032 firearm murders in the measurement period (1998 - 2000), while the same site (from a U.N. report) reports a total of 5,140 murders. We assumed that later figure is correct and that the total number of firearm murders is perhaps no more than 50% (2,570) of that figure. That would put the per capita firearm murder rate in Thailand at ~ 0.0404/1,000, ranking Thailand #4, instead of #3, not that ranking is all that important.

Relevant to this thread, chances are if a murder is commmited during a burglary, and this would be extremely rare, it would not involve a firearm.

(Of course there was a recent burglary here in Bangkok, on New Years Eve, that did involve a firearm murder of a foreigner by a male Thai burgar!)

The per capita murder rate in Thailand ( 0.0800798 per 1,000 people), according to that report, is almost double that of the U.S.A.( 0.042802 per 1,000 people )

Who knows how accurate the original reporting and data were, or how things are currently?

lomatopo - Unfortunately not amusing - In my county we discuss tens of thousands dying in recent events and the small pet (pootchy wotchy) making major headlines as it is suffering a shock, as its pet’s hair dressing appointment cannot be kept. (a flippant response but none the less in keeping see below, and better than comparing it to the few westerners who died)

I'm afraid a single westerner being shot dead, counts for little why is it that so many (even in your own estimates) are killed by firearms in Thailand? - What is wrong? - Is not true security paramont?

[Ijustwannateach]

I would like to let the members on this thread know that I am personally in contact with the OP, who is:

a. not gay,

b. not a native speaker of English, and

c. certainly not trolling.

While his opening post is perhaps not phrased in the best way, and he is not conversant with gay venues (leading to the "Babylon" mistake), he had a genuine concern and was trying to mediate between his building's Thai management (who were on the stronger, more interfering side of the issue) and the farang he mentioned. I myself misunderstood his initial intention and reacted angrily, but further discussion with him clarified the issue.

He has expressed great regret that his intentions were so misunderstood, and on my part I am sorry that the thread overall went so wrong, although I can't say that anyone was really at fault. As the OP has told me that he has received plenty of good advice on the matter and knows what he needs to do next, I will close the thread unless he requests that I re-open it.

"Steven"