New Slant On Over Charging?

[cutethaigirl]

Anyone who has eaten out or stayed in a Hotel in Thailand should be familiar with the following::

XX Dish 300B, YY dish 179B and so on. At the bottom of the menu it may say one or both of the following.

+10% Service Charge, +7% VAT.

or

450 Baht ++ taken as meaning the same as above.

As an example the Bayoke Sky advertises its buffer at 395 Baht

When the bill comes it is broken down to show the various taxes but the total is as advertised 395B.

OK so what is my point?

Went to a restaurant in Pattaya last week where the menu had absolutely none of the two options shown above on it nor anywhere in the premises.

When the bill came it was for the 800 baht i expected PLUS Sales Tax at 7% some 50.65 baht (rounded up) quote - 51 baht making a rather different 851 baht.

Of course the issue was raised and i was told tha that it was sales tax (vat) and "we do not keep it, it goes to the government......... all restaurants in Thailand have to do it"

Now i reckon...

A. Not true. All restaurant HAVE to show additions.

B. Is this a scam and the Government know nothing. Are there any checks made like European VAT inspectors.

Would like to hear your comments, especially if this is unlawful and i am happy to name the place after a while.

unniest bit was when i kinda slapped another 50 baht down and there as a huge, one sided fuss over the remaining one baht:-))

How would it have been if i only had the money to physically pay for what i had ordered? ie 800 baht?

CT

[davethailand]

you always seem to eat in the wrong places.

[cutethaigirl]

Nice One Dave.

Start selling food

What do you know about the legalities. Would you EVEr do it? I am certain not.

CT

[Darknight]

it's that what pisses me off the most in los. Be it either fake service charges or vat or additions to the bill you didn't get, or miscalculations in your change ...

IT's 95 percent of the time wrong...anywhere else in europe or america it's 95 percent of the time right.

I always wonder

1. Can't they count or substract ??

2. do they do it on purpose?

3. Don't they realise they don't get repeat customers like that?

I'm actually insulting people when i come back to europe because i look at their bill for 5 minutes

[Bad News]

New Slant On Over Charging?

It is obvious that the 'SLANT' in the title of this topic

is a racial slur and has nothing to do with overcharging.

Shameful.

[davethailand]

CTG

i agree if the charge is not mentioned on the menu or anywhere for that matter, then why should we have to pay it?

in a way it is racist, against farangs

[tuky]

um,

whats a coupla baht?

TiT....

seriously

[cutethaigirl]

It is obvious that the 'SLANT' in the title of this topic

is a racial slur and has nothing to do with overcharging.

Excuse me??

What are you on about?

My title is valid and absolutely nothing to do with racial issues.

By definition a new slant means a new way, new method.

I simply enquired if the group knew if it was legal or had any knowledge. I really do not expect to be getting insulted

My experience was absolutely genuine and i believe illegal.

Can you tell me where in my post i actually mentioned what type of restaurant it was?? Meaning owned by a Australian, larger Thai Corporation, street cafe.

I merely asked astraightforward question.

um,

whats a coupla baht?

TiT.... 

seriously

Are you for real???

How do you define right from wrong then? I have seen many posts about overcharging. Mine is not about overcharging It is IS IT LEGAL. Thailand has a lot of very adequete laws and i am asking if my experience is LEGAL practice?

As a point of interest to your whats a couple of baht, where do you draw the line?

51 Baht is approximately 30% of the National Minimum Wage! Or two and a half plates of food at a street stall. Get the point.?

As a further part of my original question.

Who said i am not thai, who said it was a thai establishment.

Respectfully if you could answer the question if you have the answer and avoid personal insults or (imo) crazy views.

To review

Is adding to a fully printed menu a charge of 7% sales Tax without any notice to the customer accepted paractice , legal?

CT

[kurgen]

Nice One Dave.

Dave you nicker sniffer, how do you always come up smelling of roses?

[cutethaigirl]

Dave you nicker sniffer

Sorry i thought a 'nicker' was some uk and us slang for the police as the 'nick' people.

Why is this 'Dave' sniffing police. and why do the make him smell of flowers?? confused

CT

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Dave runs a bar Cute

[monty]

I'm here to long to start making a fuss over something like 50 Baht. I just let them know and vote with my feet! Places like that won't see me again!

This said I haven't had this happen to me yet in Pattaya. All places I've been to adding the tax and service had it mentioned on their menu's!

And mostly these places are on the expensive side so I'm not going there to much

It certainly would be illegal, but so is speeding, driving without a helmet and prostitution When they suddenly start enforcing the law to the letter, most of us would be out of here in no time

I can assure you they still have laws on the books which would raise an eyebrowe on even the most puritanical person

[GuestHouse]

This, I'm afraid sums up the attitude of too many foreigners in Thailand.

When they suddenly start enforcing the law to the letter, most of us would be out of here in no time

OP I believe that there is an office of fair trading in Pattaya, iif I recall correctly I read something about them and their work in the Pattaya Mail a few weeks back. You might want to bring this to their attention.

The fact is, this kind of behaviour pisses people off, that is not good for an individual business and it is not good for Thailand's travel industry.

You might find the address of the fair trading office and write to them to ask them to look at this problem. It might be advisable to get your letter translated to Thai as this will help them understand your report.

The Campaign against dual pricing in Thailand

[Axel]

Since 1992 every company but for some small private ones, below a minimum sales, have to charge VAT.

Generally, this means on top of the price for merchandise and service, VAT has to be added. Whatever the company, i.e. the restaurant collects as VAT must be shown seperately and such amount is to be paid to the tax-office, whereby VAT paid by the company for their own purchases, can be deducted.

For restaurants it should be common to show a remark on the menu + 10% + 7% VAT, or to say it's an all in offer. If it is not clear, why not ask before ordering?

When paying, ask for an official receipt or tax-invoice and you can be sure the amount specified there will be paid to the government, and yes, the government is checking on this. Of course, it is not uncommon, that restaurants might wish NOT to issue receipts in order to avoid payuing VAT as well as other taxes.

When the bill came it was for the 800 baht i expected PLUS Sales Tax at 7% some 50.65 baht (rounded up) quote - 51 baht making a rather different 851 baht.

Not sure, how to calculate above. You expexted Baht 800 and they added Baht 51.

Hardly can be the 'sales tax' which should be the value added tax, VAT, but does not make sense to me, as 7% off 800 equals Baht 56.

[astral]

I expect that all restaurants are expected to pay VAT, but only the bigger ones,

and hotels really do.

I agree with the poster.

If they are selling food they should quote the entire price.

It is not like a retail or wholesale business where some people may be able to

purchase at the base price.

In a restaurant we all have to pay.

So be honest and tell us the WHOLE price.

This practice was outlawed in Malaysia some 14 years ago, but even there the hotels ignore the law

[Dutchy]

Now i reckon...

A. Not true. All restaurant HAVE to show additions.

B. Is this a scam and the Government know nothing. Are there any checks made like European VAT inspectors.

Would like to hear your comments, especially if this is unlawful and i am happy to name the place after a while.

Yep, You've been scammed, I wouldn't have paid the tax if it's not mentioned on the menu. If all people make a fuss about these scams they will stop, it's people with "it's only 50 baht" attitudes that make the Thais continue with these practises...

Dutchy

[davethailand]

CTG

on a pesonal note, are you in pattaya or chiang mai?

[Dutchy]

CTG

on a pesonal note, are you in pattaya or chiang mai?

"Went to a restaurant in Pattaya last week where the.."

You sure can say what you want to say but apparently do not read what you read....

Dutchy

[cutethaigirl]

Yep, You've been scammed, I wouldn't have paid the tax if it's not mentioned on the menu. If all people make a fuss about these scams they will stop, it's people with "it's only 50 baht" attitudes that make the Thais continue with these practises...

Wholeheartedly agree. Thank You.

To be honest i think i was a bit stunned. Overcharging is normal and usually avoided in say market eateries by asking first as suggested above.

But as also mentioned above to go to place such as this was, like i have never paid 800+ for food with a very flashy decor and equally impressive menu, should i be expected to say. Oh and by the way are there any hidden extras like tax, vat, sitting down charge, breathing in the air, subsidising the aircon by the time spent etc.... I think to suggest "checking first" in a place like this was not reasonable.

As it has been mentioned i would like to point out that at no time have i said it was a Thai owned restaurant. Please can i make it clear that it is NOT a Thai restaurant.

I disagree with dual pricing and there are plenty of posts at the Forum about that. My question was , and remains Is it Legal? as it it is the first time i have EVEr come across such a thing.

Oh yes 800+7% is 856b but the bill was 850.60 rounded to 851. So sorry if i made an error , maybe it was 795 or whatever, or maybe their computer that adds this scandalous (IMO) charge was a bit out?:-)

[alex100]

it's that what pisses me off the most in los. Be it either fake service charges or vat or additions to the bill you didn't get, or miscalculations in your change ...

IT's 95 percent of the time wrong...anywhere else in europe or america it's 95 percent of the time right.

I always wonder

1. Can't they count or substract ??

2. do they do it on purpose?

3. Don't they realise they don't get repeat customers like that?

I'm actually insulting people when i come back to europe because i look at their bill for 5 minutes

They might no be able to count but I bet they can spell better than you - stop complaining about monopoly money you numb nuts

[cutethaigirl]

They might no be able to count but I bet they can spell better than you - stop complaining about monopoly money you numb nuts

They might NO....... is that Scottish??

I think my spelling is very accurate.

I rather believe that my posting was about legalities not quantities? Forgive me if i am correct.

Is it possible to have a reasonable 'debate' here without someone popping up with personal attacks....

"numb nuts" As 'M' in a Bond movie said "at least i don't have to think with mine".

Please post nicely.

CT

[davethailand]

CTG

on a pesonal note, are you in pattaya or chiang mai?

"Went to a restaurant in Pattaya last week where the.."

You sure can say what you want to say but apparently do not read what you read....

Dutchy

i actually know cutethaigirl personally and i also know that they live in chiang mai.

smart arse

[stumonster]

you probably were not scammed....just done over, I doubt it all goes to the govt

easy fix is just do not go back..

as for the vat, when I go and pay the electricity,phone or water bill at the 7/11 I get charged an extra 10 baht , which is broken down to 9.35 + 0.65vat

[bartender100]

I get annoyed when they add 10% service charge then DONT give it to the staff,but thats a whole new topic

[Up2U]

If they are selling food they should quote the entire price.

In a restaurant we all have to pay.

So be honest and tell us the WHOLE price.

This practice was outlawed in Malaysia some 14 years ago, but even there the hotels ignore the law

Not just hotels - last week went into 'The Old Siam' in KL and ordered a meal, with my wife. She was missing decent Thai food.

We got poor apologies of Thai food, then a bill that added service charge and VAT to an already pricy meal. And 10 ringgit for a small Tiger beer. (Plus VAT plus Service). What I had expected to be a reasonably-priced meal turned out to be expensive.

Luckily we found a place just down the road from there (off Bukit Bintang) that served decent Thai food at half the price of the Old Siam, with Tiger at 4.50 ringgit, all included. So instead of paying 80 ringgit per night for a shabby meal, we paid 26-30 ringgit for something enjoyable.

[Darknight]

They might no be able to count but I bet they can spell better than you - stop complaining about monopoly money you numb nuts

O look , MR alex millionaire with oxford english written all over his sorry *ss.

[alex100]

i enjoy being ripped off in thailand it makes me feel special

[snowleopard]

New Slant On Over Charging?

It is obvious that the 'SLANT' in the title of this topic

is a racial slur and has nothing to do with overcharging.

Shameful.    

The word "slant" seen as being racial slur might be biased and only in the eye of the beholder!

Cheers!

Snowleopard.