Interview With Immigration Inspector

[sabaijai]

Last month the Immigration Police Bureau announced that foreigners from nations that qualify for the 30-day visa exemption could only 90 days of every six months in Thailand under the exemption – the end of the ‘visa run’ system. Calm and collected in spite of the whirlwind of confusion and media distortion, Daniel Cooper sat down for an exclusive interview with Police Major Suppachai Paladech, Inspector of the Immigration Detention Centre in Bangkok.

First, to clear a few things up, the new regulation, which mirrors clauses in the Immigration Act from 2002, only affects people entering Thailand on the 30-day visa exempt stamp. The regulation stipulates that visitors can only spend 90 days out of every six months on the visa-exempt stamp. However, days spent in Thailand on any other kind of visa do not count towards that 90-day total. Further, Immigration only counts the days actually spent within Thai borders, so as long as you don’t exceed 90 days in a six-month period, the number of visa-exempt entries are unlimited.

This regulation takes effect on October 1, meaning that foreigners entering on the first have until about the end of the year before using up their six-month allotment.

The regulation is squarely aimed at visa-runners, who travel to a border each month, get stamped out and immediately re-enter, receiving another 30-day stay. The exact number of visa-runners is unknown but Colonel Suppachai estimates that there are more than 100,000 in Thailand at any one time.

Visa runs are not new and have been tolerated with a sort of benign neglect for the ten years since the visa exemption has existed. Many visa runners don’t qualify for a work permit or other visas that allow them to stay long-term in Thailand, or it’s just too hard to get a ‘proper’ visa. While this loophole probably needs closing, the motivation for the new regulation is a simple one.

Thailand maintains a ‘blacklist’, which Colonel Suppachai supervises. Different from the traditional Persona Non Grata designation, people can be on the list for as little as six months, and may not even be aware they are listed. The trouble is that the list takes time and technology to check, neither of which are available at border posts. However, Thai consulates do have the technology to check, and visas take 24-hours to issue, allowing time to screen ‘undesirables’.

At a recent informal Q&A session at Sabah Café on Samsen Road, Banglamphu, Colonel Suppachai reassured concerned visa-runners that there would be no limit on the number of tourist visas issued, which allow visitors to stay for 60 days, extendable by 30 days for a total of 90. Do the math: Anyone can get two tourist visas, two extensions and six visa-exemptions a year and stay in Thailand for 12 months.

This shifts the power to grant or deny entry to Thailand to her consuls abroad, who issue the visas. So while Colonel Suppachai assures us that consulates will issue tourist visas to everyone not on the blacklist, the consulates are controlled by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, not the Immigration Police.

There has been much talk in the press of using the new regulation to stop illegal foreign workers and general hangers-on but, for now, that does not appear to be the focus of the Immigration Police. (They are primarily interested in screening for criminals.) However, high-level meetings are taking place with other ministries and departments (Interior, Labour, Foreign Affairs) presumably to make it easier to do what all visa-runners want most: go legal. We will keep you informed of these developments as we learn of them.

Typically, working visa-runners are English teachers, dive instructors, journalists and entertainers. For now, they’re not being targeted, although foreign models may receive some unwanted attention soon.

What happens to people who have used up their 90-day allotment and are denied entry at the border is as yet undecided. As Colonel Suppachai says “We have 90 days to work it out.” What will probably happen is that people will get emergency visas (say, five days), but this is speculation.

To sum up, it may be a pain having to go to a Thai consulate twice a year to get a tourist visa but otherwise it is business as usual – for now. Colonel Suppachai mentioned that this new regulation is the brainchild of his boss, the Commissioner of Immigration Police, which he raised when taking up the post 12 months ago. He also mentioned that this is the first phase of a larger plan, but doesn’t have the details as yet. Either way, Thailand’s sometimes lax, sometimes cryptic immigration rules are set to tighten up. Whether the changes will make it easier to live here or impossible to stay remains to be seen.

Other Options

Going legal is set to get easier. Already, foreigners can convert their tourist visa to a non-immigrant ‘B’ (business) visa by going to the Immigration Department with the proper documents and three weeks stay remaining. The idea of an educator’s visa (covering occupations like dive instructor and English teacher) is being discussed, but is only talk so far. A Thailand Long Stay card, which grants a 12-month visa, is being set up (www.thailongstay.co.th), kind of an elite-card for the rest of us.

Source: Untamed Travel

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Will events of the last 24 hours affect all this?

[astral]

Will events of the last 24 hours affect all this?

I seriously doubt it.

There are much more important matters to be dealt with.

[SabahCafeandCinima]

Yes

[percy2]

. A Thailand Long Stay card, which grants a 12-month visa, is being set up (www.thailongstay.co.th), kind of an elite-card for the rest of us.

Well those over 50.

[trajan]

wow, very informative sabaijai, thanks ^

Edited September 20, 2006 by trajan

[britmaveric]

Everything will be scrapped?

[sabaijai]

Will events of the last 24 hours affect all this?

One way to get an angle on that question is to first ask, who was behind the visa changes? I still don't know. If it was a TRT official, then I would guess it will be scrapped. If it was some functionary in the MFA or Interior Ministry, then it will probably be enforced as planned.

[stevie403]

First, to clear a few things up, the new regulation, which mirrors clauses in the Immigration Act from 2002, only affects people entering Thailand on the 30-day visa exempt stamp. The regulation stipulates that visitors can only spend 90 days out of every six months on the visa-exempt stamp. However, days spent in Thailand on any other kind of visa do not count towards that 90-day total. Further, Immigration only counts the days actually spent within Thai borders, so as long as you don’t exceed 90 days in a six-month period, the number of visa-exempt entries are unlimited.

Does this mean that i will be ok as i work 28 days in malaysia then come back thailand for 28 days,so ver the period of time i will not had 90 days ect ??????

[stateofmind]

Thank you for your calming words, sabaijai...

However, I just came back to Bangkok from Singapore today... and I had a rather unpleasant experience at the thai embassy there.

I asked for a tourist visa and was simply turned down. "You are already on a tourist visa" the woman at the counter said to me. "You have to stay out of Thailand for 2 months before you can apply for one again".

4 months ago I came to Thailand with my 60 days tourist visa issued in my home country. After 60 days here I went to the immigration in Bangkok and extended it for another 30 days, and one month ago I went to the Philippines for some days before I returned back to Thailand and got a VOA. After another 30 days in Thailand I went to Singapore.

I asked the woman at the embassy in Singapore why she turned me down for a new tourist visa, as I now was on a VOA. She replied that the Tourist Visa and VOA were in a sense both tourist visas, and counted as the same thing regarding the 90 days in, 90 days out rule.

Still... why did she tell me I have to stay out of Thailand for 2 months and not 3? And why did she count the VOA and Tourist Visa as the same thing? And it's not even october the 1st yet, but they have already started to practice the new regulation (or how they interpret to practice it) at the embassy in Singapore. I went back to Bangkok and got a VOA instead without any problem at the airport. Waste of time and money, but I'll manage.

Also, my thai ex gf called the immigration in Bangkok some days ago trying to get som explanation to the new practice. The guy answering was nice to her and said he understood the problem very well, but that he could not answer, simply because they did not understand the new practice at the immigration either!

So... the answer to how this will affect us is not yet clear...

[sting01]

However, high-level meetings are taking place with other ministries and departments (Interior, Labour, Foreign Affairs) presumably to make it easier to do what all visa-runners want most: go legal. We will keep you informed of these developments as we learn of them.

It's GREAT to hear that.

At least the status and the honesty of some of us is admited.

[ovenman]

However, I just came back to Bangkok from Singapore today... and I had a rather unpleasant experience at the thai embassy there.

I wouldn't draw any conclusions from your experience. The Thai embassy in Singapore had always had a policy of not issuing back-to-back tourist visas. This is nothing new and has actually been going on for years.

[LOS NICK]

these thai embassy in asia are near impossible to deal with. handing out tourist visa should be automatic..instead they are quick to say no and send you on your way.

So all this talk about getting tourist visa-no problem- is bloody hog wash.

Its total discrimination against the retired under 50 crowd..

Who doesnt want to have the proper visa...they just wont give them out.

Penang seems to be the only option in asia.

But I wouldnt be surpised if that changed.

Who regulates these embassies and tells them only to give out one tourist visa per customer.

Its only a tourist visa for christ sakes.

[sfokevin]

Does anyone have an estimated pricing for the Thailand Long Stay card?

[Firefan]

You have to be 50 years old and have 800k to get the longstay card (as it is now), nothing new under the sun there. Price (w. visa) starts at about $500. Cheers!

[A_Traveller]

... Police Major Suppachai Paladech, Inspector of the Immigration Detention Centre in Bangkok.

.... ....

Colonel Suppachai ...

As unpaid proofreader, which is he?

Colonel Suppachai mentioned that this new regulation is the brainchild of his boss, the Commissioner of Immigration Police, which he raised when taking up the post 12 months ago

This, in part, ties in with comments made to me which might best be characterised as the Commissioner is not a detail focused manager, but prefers to lead. I do think however, that the reality is that the idea may have been mooted sometime ago but exigent circumstances, to borrow a phrase, accelerated this up the decision tree. This is of course reasonable, but does run the risk of the individuals who 'have to make it happen' left muttering 'How?'. One might suggest that much of the confusion about this whole matter stems from that very point.

However, high-level meetings are taking place with other ministries and departments (Interior, Labour, Foreign Affairs)

However for new regulations to be legal they must be processed by the Immigration Commission,

which consists of the

• Under Secretary of the Minister of Interior [Chairman]
  
• Under Secretary of Ministry of Foreign Affairs
  
• Director general , Police Department
  
• Director General , Labour Department
  
• Director General , Public Prosecution Department
  
• Secretary General , Board of Investment Committee
  
• Secretary General , National Security Council
  
• Director , Tourist Organisation of Thailand
  
• Commander of Immigration Division
  

so in principal the meeting should take place first then the regulations are prepared and approved by the Commission.

although foreign models may receive some unwanted attention soon.

Yes, well...... what can one say....

“We have 90 days to work it out.”

words – last – famous rearrange in to a well know phrase.

which mirrors clauses in the Immigration Act from 2002

AFAIK there is no such thing, there were ministerial regulations issued in 2002. The key point here is regulations have been increasingly used to change the effect and the reach of statute without the tiresome process of writing and promulgating through parliament new acts. As to the position now in the new political landscape, I would anticipate that given the likely leaning of an Army backed structure, any tightening of the rules would be more welcome, not less.

Regards

[dsfbrit]

Nice post sabaijai - thanks

I Read this on the Phucket Forum - from SIMBO - posted on the 20th so pretty up to date. The bit about the return air ticket was interesting.

From SIMBO.

I received the following reply off the Thai Consul in Cardiff today- I hope it clarifies things a bit

RE YOUR ENQUIRY. TO DATE WE HAVE NO

NOTIFICATION OF A CHANGE IN THE TOURIST REGULATIONS.

ie A TOURIST VISA ALLOWS A STAY IN THAILAND OF UP TO 60 DAYS FROM THE DATE OF ARRIVAL. ON APPLICATION, A FURTHER 30 DAY CAN BE GRANTED BYTHE IMMIGRATION AUTHORITIES

ON A SINGLE ENTRY A TOURIST HAS TO ENTER THAILAND WITHIIN 90

DAYS OF THE VISA BEING ISSUED, OPTHERWISE THE VISA BECOMES

INVALID. THIS PERIOD IS EXTENDED TO 180 DAYS IF A DOUBLE

OR MORE ENTRIES ARE OBTAINED.

WE HAVE RECEIVED REPORTS (NOT YET OFFICIALLY RECEIVED

THAT PROBLEMS HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCED BY FOREIGN

NATIONALS ABUSING THE 3O DAY ENTRY WITHOUT A VISA AND

IT THIS WHICH IS BEING TIGHTENED UP.

THE 30 DAY FREE OF VISA SHOULD ONLY BE ISSUED TO TOURIST

WITH A CONFIRMED AIR TICKET TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY AND

WE BELIEVE IT IS THIS PROVISION WHICH HAS NOT BEEN

FULLY APPLIED.

SHOULD WE RECEIVE ANY OFFICIAL INFORMATION,

WE WILL NOT FAIL TO ADVISE YOU.

[pascharay]

Will events of the last 24 hours affect all this?

One way to get an angle on that question is to first ask, who was behind the visa changes? I still don't know. If it was a TRT official, then I would guess it will be scrapped. If it was some functionary in the MFA or Interior Ministry, then it will probably be enforced as planned.

Any minister with the appellation of caretaker before their title such as Caretaker Minister Suwat was with the previous government.

Other edicts caretaker ministers were trying to enforce in the last days

Change the drinking age from 18 to 26

Stop expansion of megastore

Changing the B-visa investemtn from 3 mill to 10 mill

rewriting the plans for the bangkok subway

And I'm sure quite a few other wild projects

These edicts were all part of political jockeying for the post of PM, which Thaksin had vowed to relinquish if re-elected.

All politics are local.

Laws are on the books are enforced according to exigency and ability.

Looks like VOAs will be limited to 90 days until at least the new year.

Edited September 21, 2006 by pascharay

[h5n1]

there is already disinformation coming from the govt!! i was in penang days ago and was denied double visa. to quote the consular official:

"that is the new rule, you may apply again"

we all know penang to be th emost efficient and libral with visas. if nothing has changed you MIGHT get a single in vietiane, you should be able to get a singel in yangon (or wherever they are hiding the capital now). you most likely will have big issues in sin/hkg and who knows about kl.

NOTE: thaivisa post rob.pee : HARSH!!!

all hopes for lao dashed (rob.pee)

cebu and bali (sanur) are options as well. a long way to go for the privilage of giving your money to a third world country in which the govt suspended, former pm about to have asets frozen, rumour of counter coup, no elections for a year+, baht will start to destabilize in about 6 mos.

AND....THEY DONT EVEN WANT US HERE.

its too funny that govt official saying this and that - but the facts on the ground NOT SO. and it was not just me, everyone i saw rec'd SINGLES.

ps: i have no problem with any nation basically running its affairs as it sees fit. i can choose to go elsewhere and i think we all should for at least a few years..

just goes to show cant trust info from anyone even khun #2

Edited September 21, 2006 by h5n1

[pascharay]

Everything will be scrapped?

If I'm not mistaken it was the caretaker deputy minister Swuwat who issued this proclaimation.

He ain't doing no proclaiming now

___________________________________________________________

BANGKOK NEWS

The day after the coup, the fallen Thai Rak Thai government's cabinet ministers were scattered in several locations. Some sought shelter in safehouses, some fled to foreign countries and others preferred to stay quietly at home.

Former deputy prime minister Suwat Liptapanlop was were reportedly at home.

The TRT headquarters was abandoned due to the absence of MPs and party leaders.

___________________________________________________-

read into this whatever you want.

[sabaijai]

... Police Major Suppachai Paladech, Inspector of the Immigration Detention Centre in Bangkok.

.... ....

Colonel Suppachai ...

As unpaid proofreader, which is he?

Colonel Suppachai mentioned that this new regulation is the brainchild of his boss, the Commissioner of Immigration Police, which he raised when taking up the post 12 months ago

This, in part, ties in with comments made to me which might best be characterised as the Commissioner is not a detail focused manager, but prefers to lead. I do think however, that the reality is that the idea may have been mooted sometime ago but exigent circumstances, to borrow a phrase, accelerated this up the decision tree. This is of course reasonable, but does run the risk of the individuals who 'have to make it happen' left muttering 'How?'. One might suggest that much of the confusion about this whole matter stems from that very point.

However, high-level meetings are taking place with other ministries and departments (Interior, Labour, Foreign Affairs)

However for new regulations to be legal they must be processed by the Immigration Commission,

which consists of the

• Under Secretary of the Minister of Interior [Chairman]
  
• Under Secretary of Ministry of Foreign Affairs
  
• Director general , Police Department
  
• Director General , Labour Department
  
• Director General , Public Prosecution Department
  
• Secretary General , Board of Investment Committee
  
• Secretary General , National Security Council
  
• Director , Tourist Organisation of Thailand
  
• Commander of Immigration Division
  

so in principal the meeting should take place first then the regulations are prepared and approved by the Commission.

although foreign models may receive some unwanted attention soon.

Yes, well...... what can one say....

“We have 90 days to work it out.”

words – last – famous rearrange in to a well know phrase.

which mirrors clauses in the Immigration Act from 2002

AFAIK there is no such thing, there were ministerial regulations issued in 2002. The key point here is regulations have been increasingly used to change the effect and the reach of statute without the tiresome process of writing and promulgating through parliament new acts. As to the position now in the new political landscape, I would anticipate that given the likely leaning of an Army backed structure, any tightening of the rules would be more welcome, not less.

Regards

Very astute analysis, thanks for that.

[JonnieB]

Can anyone clarify the bit about converting T-visas to non-imm B's or O's that has been mentioned? Under what circumstances can they be changed and what documentation is required? I have a legit Thai company (ownes my house) and also a couple "causual" Thai employees (maid and driver). Would my situation qualify for the visa conversion?

Thanks

[astral]

. A Thailand Long Stay card, which grants a 12-month visa, is being set up (www.thailongstay.co.th), kind of an elite-card for the rest of us.

Well those over 50.

It is such a well organised site that access is not available due to too many users..............

Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Too many connections in /home/thailong/public_html/en/connect.php on line 7

ติดต่อกับฐานข้อมูล Mysql ไม่ได้

Not an auspicious start.