Settlement Visa Uk

[connor]

Hi all

Some might remember i posted a while back concerning my wifes settlement visa for the UK. Thanks for all the help i got her visa within four days & we are now living happily in the UK with our son. Been some ups & downs as expected. Lets face it the UK is hardly paradise!

Ok so i need some help again, her son who is nearly 16 years old wants to join us. We are in a good position now. I earn around 65K. Have our own premises. She goes to english school. Our 1 year old son has a UK passport. I have work for him with me so must have a work visa.

I think its basically the same visa, settlement. Is anyone out there got any experience in this situation or advise in general?

Look forward to hearing from u.

[GU22]

I think its basically the same visa, settlement.

Although he should apply for a settlement visa, using form VAF2, what he will be granted depends on his mother's status.

If she is still on her sv then he will get an sv which will expire when hers does, so that they both apply for ILR together. However, if she already has ILR then he will be granted Indefinite Leave to Enter, which to all intents and purposes is the same as ILR.

To get this you need to show three things:

You can accommodate him suitably without recourse to public funds.

You can support him without recourse to public funds.

His mother has sole custody of him, issued either by an Ampur or a court, or his father is dead and she has his death certificate.

The consent of whomever your son has been living with may also be necessary on the sole responsibility point, as responsibility may have become joint. The ECO will consider various factors on this point; for example:-

The period the parent in the UK has been separated from the Child

The previous arrangements for the care of the child prior to the parent coming to the UK.

Who has (or has had) the day-to-day care and control of the child since the sponsor came to the UK.

Who supports the child financially.

Who takes important decisions about the child's upbringing.

The degree of contact between the parent claiming sole responsibility and the child.

What role the other parent and relatives outside the UK have played in the childcare and upbringing (if any).

It is not necessary for the sole responsibility to be throughout life.

Financial support is a factor but not conclusive.

The decision-makers should look at the role played by the parents but also at the part played in the upbringing by others.

It is not fatal others played a part in day-to-day care.

Each case depends on its own facts, but evidence must be such that it can be fairly said that sponsor retains sole control of the child's upbringing and is responsible for the important decisions relating to the child's upbringing, such as where they live, go to school and the religious instruction.

As your step-son is 16, these factors are even more important, so make sure you have presented sufficient evidence to show that you and/or your wife have had the major role in his upbringing so far.

Also, the ECO will consider the wishes of the child. Even if a child otherwise qualifies the visa may be refused if the ECO feels the child's best interests will be served by remaining in Thailand. The older a child is the more weight the ECO will give to the child's wishes.

See also Chapter 14 - Settlement entry for children, especially 14.3 - Children of parent(s) or a relative settled (or to be admitted for settlement) in the United Kingdom and how they qualify.

You should be ok, but I recommend that you ensure all the bases are covered and that any possible question the ECO may have is answered.

But the most important point is the wishes of the boy. What, for example, about his education? Taking an 8 or 9 year old from a Thai school and putting them into a British one is one thing, but a 16 year old? Is it fair to him to switch systems at this stage? Is his English up to the task? Remember, he'll be joining year 11 and his contemporaries will all be preparing for their GCSEs this summer, could he cope? What sort of life will he have in the UK with no qualifications?

Not wanting to deter you, but these are all things you have to consider. If he doesn't want to live in the UK and prefers to stay where he is then I recommend letting him do so.

Edited February 4, 2007 by GU22

[Mahout Angrit]

If you (or he) have no educational aspirations and all he really wants to do is live in the UK you perhaps should delay his application until he no longer is legally bound to go to school in the UK(is that 16?).Thats purely to save him the trauma of trying to compete with his peers at school with a limited knowledge of English language.

With LTR in UK he will be entitled to attend English lessons free of charge at the local college(although cost of lessons is probably not a concern of yours)

He is entitled to apply to join his parents any time until he reaches 18 years of age after which time he will be considered an adult and it's a very different story.

I have work for him with me so must have a work visa.

If he has leave to remain in UK as a result of his settlement visa he does not need a work permit to work. Edited February 4, 2007 by Mahout Angrit

[GU22]

With LTR in UK he will be entitled to attend English lessons free of charge at the local college(although cost of lessons is probably not a concern of yours)

It looks like this is changing. An acquaintance of mine has received a letter from her college saying that as from September 2007 the classes will no longer be free; a charge of £3 per hour will be made. Still very cheap, though. This is in Bucks, I don't know about other LEAs.

[mrbojangles]

I heard that it is very difficult to get a child over 14/15 a settlement visa on the grounds of joining the parent. From what you say above, it doesn't seem to be the case. This maybe an issue i will have to contend with next year, so anyone who can clarify, would be most welcomed

[stevebow]

If you (or he) have no educational aspirations and all he really wants to do is live in the UK you perhaps should delay his application until he no longer is legally bound to go to school in the UK(is that 16?).Thats purely to save him the trauma of trying to compete with his peers at school with a limited knowledge of English language.

With LTR in UK he will be entitled to attend English lessons free of charge at the local college(although cost of lessons is probably not a concern of yours)

He is entitled to apply to join his parents any time until he reaches 18 years of age after which time he will be considered an adult and it's a very different story.

I have work for him with me so must have a work visa.

If he has leave to remain in UK as a result of his settlement visa he does not need a work permit to work.

Could you please explain what LTR is and how to begin the process of for free English language lessons. Although this does concern me right now, I know its something I will need to understand later this year.

Cheers Steve

[Mahout Angrit]

Could you please explain what LTR is and how to begin the process of for free English language lessons. Although this does concern me right now, I know its something I will need to understand later this year.

Steve

LTR is Leave to Remain in the UK which is what your fiancee will get once she is your wife (and you make the application). She will be granted LTR for a 2 year period at the end of which she can apply for ILR (indefinite leave to remain in UK). She can apply for ILR after she has been in UK for 1 year 11 months and has passed a EFL course at level 3 with citizenship or passed a 'life in UK test' and proved that you are still in your relationship and living together. All education in UK for foreign students is charged at international student rate (which can be expensive). Once granted LTR she can apply at the local college for subsidised learning which according to rumours above may not be entirely free after Sept 07.

[Mossfinn]

her son who is nearly 16 years old wants to join us. I have work for him with me so must have a work visa.

Is anyone out there got any experience in this situation or advise in general?

Hi Connor,

Don't know how much I can help, but I will tell you ( partly ) of my experience.

Brought our 14 Y.O daughter, ( my step-daughter ) over a couple of years ago.

Was told at the time of visa issue that this was nearing the end of the limit of age that they will successfully grant a visa on the grounds of age, because they feel that any older than this and they will find it very difficult to intergrate into society.

The Wife had ILR and was established here already, but the BE made it quite clear that if she didn't come over now, then it will be very difficult in the future.

It is difficult for this age group to intergrate, although they will adapt very quickly at school, my daughter learnt English in super-quick fashion and made friends very quickly, moved on with new friends, until finally she made a small but significant group of the more switched on student and soon became part of the that peer group.

But it is the age group of 12-14 that form and forge deep social bonds and she had already done this in Thailand, and although she had made friends and good friends over here, that commitment to the special close girl-friend just would not gel and materialize.

This eventually imploded after having poor GCSE mock results, even after being assured by the school on successive occasions that she was doing extremely well, she was at the time of importance, unable to interpret the questions properly and so mis-interpreted the salient points and so scored poorly.

The reason I explain this in depth is because without that particular bond with close friends, being what can be termed when in adversity, as being wrenched ( a psychologists terminology ) from her culture, her extended family and the bonds grown up over a long period of time and ultimately in her view a failure at school to boot.

Throw in the change in a teenagers pyche, a 14 YO girl and all that entails it was like a Chenobyl melt-down, I do not say this lightly, I still cannot believe we put the daughter thru this on account we knew best and she was better over here.

We kept her here until the end of her GCSE studies and now she is back in Thailand studying Business and computers and is vastly more happy, considering what she had here and what she has there, it is hard to understand, but Western Ideals and levels of standards are just not comparable.

She is far happier and so we are more content knowing she is not going thru this perceived torment.

Intergration and compatability are very important, the BE got this just about right, I am not sure just how they will feel about a 16 Y.0 and this particulat criterion.

Remember, this is only one persons experiences, I know of one other who last time we corresponded had a much more brighter story, I will PM him to see if he will respond with an alternative experience.

This is obviously a personal experience and of little practical help.

I have no experience of Work Permits.

Good Luck

Moss

Edited February 5, 2007 by Mossfinn

[GU22]

I have no experience of Work Permits.

A work permit is not appropriate in this case as to get one Connor would have to show good reason why the job could not be done by an EU citizen.

IMHO a settlement visa is the only way.

I fully concur with all that Mossfinn has said. My step-daughter was 9 when she and her mother came to live in the UK and she has integrated very well, forming the bonds that Mossfinn refers to with some of her contemporaries at school. She has done well in her mock GCSEs and is expected to do as well or better in the real ones this summer.

Her brother was 16 at the time. After much soul searching, and a lot of tears, we decided that it would be better for him to remain in Thailand and continue his studies there. This January he received his university diploma.

But people are different. Connor, if you, your wife and most importantly the boy are all sure that bringing him to the UK is the best thing for him then go for it, and good luck.

I know it will be hard on your wife, but if the boy wants to remain in Thailand then it is better that he does so.

[connor]

Thanks for all the advise.

Now wondering perhaps get him here on a Visitors Visa & see how he likes the place? or not?

However i am worried they may not isue the VV due to the fact he would not have any reason to return to Thailand?

Really welcome your stories & advise.

Thanks.

[Mahout Angrit]

Now wondering perhaps get him here on a Visitors Visa & see how he likes the place? or not?

However i am worried they may not isue the VV due to the fact he would not have any reason to return to Thailand?

Thanks.

You have summed the problem of a visit visa pretty well, that is the reason why most applicants fail.

Have you considered a student visa? He will have to be booked on an appropriate course prior to application. The fees of such a course will be high as they will be charged at international student rates (you can get info from your local college). He will have to attend the course but can work part time while in UK (upto 20 hours/week). He may be asked if called to interview why he doesn't attend an English school in Thailand as there are many but he has an answer that accomadation will be free with his mother and the advantages of day to day immersion in the language.

This is however only temporary as he will have to return when his studies are completed. He could return and then apply for a settlement visa but not after he becomes 18.

[GU22]

However i am worried they may not isue the VV due to the fact he would not have any reason to return to Thailand?

What does he currently do in Thailand? If he is in full time education then that will be his reason to return. Simply get a letter from his school/college/whatever confirming his attendance and the date he is due back. It worked for my step-son.

I would advise against a student visa unless he genuinely does want to study in the UK. Apply for the visa that suits the purpose. Don't try to shoehorn him into one that seems easier to get. The ECOs can spot that in their sleep.

[Mossfinn]

Her brother was 16 at the time. After much soul searching, and a lot of tears, we decided that it would be better for him to remain in Thailand and continue his studies there. This January he received his university diploma.

But people are different. Connor, if you, your wife and most importantly the boy are all sure that bringing him to the UK is the best thing for him then go for it, and good luck.

I know it will be hard on your wife, but if the boy wants to remain in Thailand then it is better that he does so.

I can only think how difficult this could have been GU22, but ultimately it appears to have been the right decision, no matter how heartbreaking at the time.

Out of curiosity, did you take any steps toward bringing the son over, or did you make your decision before instigating the process and if you did begin the process, did it appear to be as difficult at bringing someone over of this age, as I have alluded to?

If this in any way appears to be an invasion of privacy, please ignore it.

Good Luck

Moss

[atlastaname]

However i am worried they may not isue the VV due to the fact he would not have any reason to return to Thailand?

What does he currently do in Thailand? If he is in full time education then that will be his reason to return. Simply get a letter from his school/college/whatever confirming his attendance and the date he is due back. It worked for my step-son.

I would advise against a student visa unless he genuinely does want to study in the UK. Apply for the visa that suits the purpose. Don't try to shoehorn him into one that seems easier to get. The ECOs can spot that in their sleep.

Suppose he is not in full time education and thus without the obvious reason to return? what visa would you then suggest he goes for ?

[connor]

Hi

He will finish his studies in May & was expecting/hoping to come to the UK & work. He really has no reason to return to the Thailand although i could find one no doubt. Plans are really to get him here & he can learn a trade/skill or maybe study further. Once established make his own mind up.

Main priority for us is to give him a better chance in life & we believe if he can get into life & work in the UK living with us that will certainly help.

Obviously this is our own opinion & realise it may not be correct in others view.

Thanks

[atlastaname]

Hi

He will finish his studies in May & was expecting/hoping to come to the UK & work. He really has no reason to return to the Thailand although i could find one no doubt. Plans are really to get him here & he can learn a trade/skill or maybe study further. Once established make his own mind up.

Main priority for us is to give him a better chance in life & we believe if he can get into life & work in the UK living with us that will certainly help.

Obviously this is our own opinion & realise it may not be correct in others view.

Thanks

Hi Connor,

Your ideas make good sense . However its not our views and opinions you need to worry about , in the end it is what an ECO on the day thinks of them.

I would imagine that the general public who have no particular knowledge of immigration , would be surprised to know that ones family do not have the right to come and visit their parent (s) in the UK. It certainly surprised me when i found that out years ago. Thats the system we have however and you now have to see if you can get permission for him to come here.

Agree with GU22 , that if he wants to stay in Thailand you should let him . However seeing the UK for a short time will certainly make his mind up for him i think. Good luck

[GU22]

Out of curiosity, did you take any steps toward bringing the son over, or did you make your decision before instigating the process

We made this decision as part of the overall decision on our future as a family, prior to applying for the settlement visas for my wife and step-daughter.

He did subsequently come on a visit, but was aged 20 then.

Atlastaname posted:

Suppose he is not in full time education and thus without the obvious reason to return? what visa would you then suggest he goes for ?

Obviously if he has no obvious reason to return then any visit visa will be difficult, but I still say apply for the visa that suits the purpose. Don't try to shoehorn him into one that seems easier to get. The ECOs can spot that in their sleep.

Connor posted:

He will finish his studies in May & was expecting/hoping to come to the UK & work. He really has no reason to return to the Thailand although i could find one no doubt. Plans are really to get him here & he can learn a trade/skill or maybe study further. Once established make his own mind up.

Main priority for us is to give him a better chance in life & we believe if he can get into life & work in the UK living with us that will certainly help.

You have obviously all given this a lot of thought, and if you all agree that his future lies in the UK with you and his mother then apply for a settlement visa for him.

A settlement visa is not a life sentence. If he decides he doesn't like it here and wants to return to Thailand he can always do so.

[Mahout Angrit]

Plans are really to get him here & he can learn a trade/skill or maybe study further. Once established make his own mind up.

Main priority for us is to give him a better chance in life & we believe if he can get into life & work in the UK living with us that will certainly help.

Sounds like the normal thoughts of any loving family to me but I wonder if the ECO will think like that.

It would seem that your best route would still be with the settlement visa, if he cannot support himself in Thailand he has a better chance but you will have to argue that where he has been living is now no longer suitable.

If your wife does not have sole responsibility for him then his father will have to give permission. The notes here state "A child cannot normally go to live in the UK if one parent is living abroad, unless the parent in the UK has sole responsibility for the child, or if there are special reasons why the child should be allowed to join the parent in the UK."

Other than that, if he wants to study in UK and learn a trade with you he could apply as a student but remember once his studies have finished and he is over 18 he is unlikely to be able to get back to UK except as a visitor once he has established himself in Thailand, unless his skills and education qualify in their own right which is highly unlikely (or he gets himself an English wife!)

Edited February 7, 2007 by Mahout Angrit