More Stringent Immigration Regulations

[Bredbury Blue]

From an email received today:

The Royal Thai Police Immigration Division is being confronted with good quality forged passports and visas and with false supporting documentation with applications to extend non-immigrant visas category 'B', the visa required to support a Thai work permit. In an effort to combat these issues, more stringent regulations are being introduced.

The following is a translation of a notice issued by the Immigration Bureau on 13th Jul 2007. It becomes effective on Wednesday 8th August 2007.

What it means is that when an application is submitted to Thai Immigration to extend a non-immigrant visa category 'B' it must be supported by photocopies of the employing company's most recent annual financial statement, its registration documentation, its monthly personal income tax return, the company's corporate tax returns and the company's monthly Social Security Fund return of contributions. Each of the photocopies must be certified as true copies of the originals by the relevant government departments.

This will entail company staff going to each of the government departments with the original documents plus photocopies of them, taking a number from the department's number vending machine, then waiting until that number is called. It will be both time-consuming and costly (in terms of employees' travel and waiting time) and those costs will have to be passed on to companies employing foreigners if they want an agent to do that for them.

On Friday 13th July 2007, the date the notice was released, the President of the Joint Foreign Chambers of Commerce in Thailand (JFCCT) sent a letter to the Immigration Commissioner requesting a meeting with the Commissioner and his senior staff. It is hoped that Thai Immigration can be convinced to accept sighting the original documents and accepting the photocopies of those originals for their records.

NOTICE

The supporting documentation required with an application to extend the visa of a foreigner

A. The following documents are to be certified as true copies of the originals by the relevant government departments or persons as shown below.

1. A copy of the company's balance sheet and profit and loss statement

Certifying Authority

- The Auditor or

- An officer of the Revenue Department or

- An officer of the Ministry of Commerce

If the document is an original then it will be considered.

2. A copy of the Registration Certificate of the Company or Partnership and A copy of the Company's Shareholders' List

Certifying Authority

- The Registrar of the Ministry of Commerce

3. A copy of the Company's PND 1 (the company's monthly personal income tax return), PND 91 (the employee's annual personal income tax certificate), PND 50 (the company's annual corporate tax return) and any other PNDs (eg PND 90 - annual personal income tax return if receiving income from other sources as well as salary and PND 51 - the company's half-yearly corporate tax return)

Certifying Authority

- An officer of the Revenue Department

4. A copy of the company's monthly Social Security Fund return (of contributions)

Certifying Authority

- An officer of the Social Security Office

B. Each time an application to extend a visa is submitted the following will also be submitted:

1. Photographs taken inside the company's offices with employees working at their work stations, and

2. Photograph(s) of the company' offices taken from outside the offices showing the number of the building and the company's sign.

Signed 13 July 2007

[stevemiddie]

Hello. This is probably a really stupid question.................how does this affect all the foreigners that have bought houses in the names of " companies " You know..........the companies that exist in name only? What type of visa are those guys normally on?

Sorry if its such a stupid question.

[Maestro]

...more stringent regulations are being introduced...

This is another case where everybody is being burdened with a more complicated, more time-consuming and costlier procedure because of the irregular activities of a few. Understandable, but sad.

--

Maestro

[monty]

Hello. This is probably a really stupid question.................how does this affect all the foreigners that have bought houses in the names of " companies " You know..........the companies that exist in name only? What type of visa are those guys normally on?

Tis only affects people applying for a 1 year extension based on employment (work permit). It does not in any way affect getting a non-immigrant B visa (business visa) in one of the Thai diplomatic posts abroad.

People owning houses on company name would not be able to get such extension anyway, unless the company owning the house was actively trading, employing Thai staff, and reported a big turnover in the previous year!

It does affect foreigners starting/owning small companies and who are trying to do everything by the law.

Unless they are lucky or very keen business people managing to realize some serious turn over in their first year, they will be doomed to do 90 day visa runs, since to get the 1 year extension when employed by a young upstart company will be close to impossible!

Even if your company qualifies to all the above mentioned requirements, it's a heck of a job running around collecting all the paperwork at so many offices!

By the way, I git this info at least a month ago (and posted it on Thai Visa!)

[stevemiddie]

Posted a month ago? I missed that. Apologies.

Thanks for that info....appreciated.

Would i be correct in thinking that some consulates will no longer keep issuing Multi Non B,s forever and a day now?

I think i heard somewhere that they take the view a WP should have been obtained and hence the extension of stay?

Edited July 18, 2007 by stevemiddie

[bruceboy]

...more stringent regulations are being introduced...

This is another case where everybody is being burdened with a more complicated, more time-consuming and costlier procedure because of the irregular activities of a few. Understandable, but sad.

--

Maestro

I agree with Maestro. These regulations seem burdensome in the extreme but are caused by a few bad apples who seek to exploit Thailand's Visa system.

[trajan]

Even if your company qualifies to all the above mentioned requirements, it's a heck of a job running around collecting all the paperwork at so many offices!

it's not only a heck of a job...my lawyer just advised me that those government offices (like the Revenue Dept and the Ministry of Commerce and the Ministry of Labor) have not coordinated with each other on timely and practical certification processes, so obtaining those various certifications (even if you manage to run around in time) will NOT be easy...

[stevemiddie]

[tijnebijn]

There they go again . Why is it so difficult to make everything easy , for them and any expat .

Anyone who does something wrong , fine them or whatsoever . No they have to make everything more complicated again.

Which is only a bigger burden for themselves . Anyway it is on their bosses time and they get paid anyway .

Its the top who are incompetent , but yeah TIT again . Gets funnier by the day .

[Jingthing]

Anyone ever wonder if there is a top secret government ministry: MOFA?

Ministry of Farang Annoyances

[innovator]

This will simply ensure that the remaining Farang in Thailand will most certainly be criminals. Those smart enough to find a way around the system or buy their way to stay will remain...ie criminals. The normal, intelligent and honest folks will simply give up or be weeded out by this growing nonsense. Anyway, it will be a marriage made in heaven with the remaining Farang criminals who can always beat any system and the Thai criminals that keep growing in numbers every day due to the lack of Farang customers spending money in their businesses. When the shoe fits.....wear it. I hope Thailand will enjoy the criminal Farangs that will be the only element remaining inside Thailand.

[nonthaburial]

After working for the same company here legally for 5 years, my application for extension was rejected on Tuesday the 17th July, the reason for the rejection was that my paperwork did not include the new requirements as stated by the OP.

So either the immigration officer got it wrong or that these new rulings are already in effect. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am of course very concerned as my present visa expires on the 26th July.

Can sunbelt confirm that the 28th August is the commencement date for these new requirements.

[brahmburgers]

Even if your company qualifies to all the above mentioned requirements, it's a heck of a job running around collecting all the paperwork at so many offices!

it's not only a heck of a job...my lawyer just advised me that those government offices (like the Revenue Dept and the Ministry of Commerce and the Ministry of Labor) have not coordinated with each other on timely and practical certification processes, so obtaining those various certifications (even if you manage to run around in time) will NOT be easy...

am not the least bit surprised. Thai bureaucracy moves as slowly as it can while still maintaining the bureaucrats' job security. Even if paper pushers gets in trouble, what happens?!? They get transferred to the Ministry of Inactive Posts to push yet more paper at glacial pace. In my town of C.Rai, it seems that a quarter of the land space is occupied by gov't buildings. Go in to any building and what do you see?!? Lots of people, mostly females, doing a whole lot of nothing.

[JR Texas]

This will simply ensure that the remaining Farang in Thailand will most certainly be criminals. Those smart enough to find a way around the system or buy their way to stay will remain...ie criminals. The normal, intelligent and honest folks will simply give up or be weeded out by this growing nonsense. Anyway, it will be a marriage made in heaven with the remaining Farang criminals who can always beat any system and the Thai criminals that keep growing in numbers every day due to the lack of Farang customers spending money in their businesses. When the shoe fits.....wear it. I hope Thailand will enjoy the criminal Farangs that will be the only element remaining inside Thailand.

JR Texas: Totally agree.......that has to be the smartest thing I have ever seen written on TF.......really! Oooooppps.....I think I am only supposed to state how wonderful things are in LOS to make everybody feel good.

[Misty]

After working for the same company here legally for 5 years, my application for extension was rejected on Tuesday the 17th July, the reason for the rejection was that my paperwork did not include the new requirements as stated by the OP.

So either the immigration officer got it wrong or that these new rulings are already in effect. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am of course very concerned as my present visa expires on the 26th July.

Can sunbelt confirm that the 28th August is the commencement date for these new requirements.

Really sorry to hear that Nonthaburial. I'm confused about the effective date of this policy. I'd seen a number of announcements in May regarding new requirements that sound very much like the OP. But the OP suggests the new requirements have only just been announced in July and are not yet in effect. So why would your application be rejected?

Can you give us any more detail on what happened? Was it any one requirement that was the concern, or all of them? Were you given 30 days to meet the new requirements? If not, what did Immigration suggest you do?

Thanks for any information--it's really helpful. And thanks Sunbelt and sponsors for giving us this means to access the most up to date visa information--sadly the Immigration website doesn't seem to have information on these new requirements.

www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=newspost

Cheers, Misty

Edited July 19, 2007 by Misty

[HarryHacker]

This will simply ensure that the remaining Farang in Thailand will most certainly be criminals. Those smart enough to find a way around the system or buy their way to stay will remain...ie criminals. The normal, intelligent and honest folks will simply give up or be weeded out by this growing nonsense. Anyway, it will be a marriage made in heaven with the remaining Farang criminals who can always beat any system and the Thai criminals that keep growing in numbers every day due to the lack of Farang customers spending money in their businesses. When the shoe fits.....wear it. I hope Thailand will enjoy the criminal Farangs that will be the only element remaining inside Thailand.

JR Texas: Totally agree.......that has to be the smartest thing I have ever seen written on TF.......really! Oooooppps.....I think I am only supposed to state how wonderful things are in LOS to make everybody feel good.

Give it a <deleted> break JRT, lets concentrate on the matter in hand.

[nonthaburial]

Following my failed visit to immigration on the 17th I tried again to day AND FAILED again. The major sticking point is the new requirements where a lot of the documentation must be original not copies.

And a warning to you all, the new requirements that are pasted up on the walls in Immigration aka as Nightmare City very clearly states EFFECTIVE from the 13th July, so where the 8th of August date came from is beyond me !

[pierrelasvegas]

sorry stupid question ,does this affect the extension for the retirment visa (annual and 90 days reports)

thanks

[Cyberstar]

.. does this affect the extension for the retirment visa (annual and 90 days reports)...

Yes, at your next extension you're required to show photos of everybody that has ever been employed by anythe employer you've had throughout your working days.

Nah, just kidding. Relax - no reason to get paranoid. Retirees aren't targeted.

[tapper]

am i the only farang in pattaya who has no problems with visas or the helpfull and friendly staff at immigration.i have been here four years plus never left thailand am aged 46 not rich(less than 40000 a month)and am on visa on entry ie.30 days.

the unfortunate bit is i am disabled(wheelchair)i go to any govt.hospital every 90 days get a "sickie"go to immigration get a 30 day extension.after 30 days my girlfriend goes to immigration alone and gets a visa for 60 days,then it's back for another "sickie"so if anyone out there is unfortunate enough to be disabled,check it out,it's at their discretion.

[Skoal]

that's good tapper, you are in a unique position to be able to do that. good 4 u

[cosmont]

Sometimes I ask myself, Why Thai government don't make a new law saying that A FOREIGNER CANNOT WORK IN THAILAND, it will make everything more clear...

[gregchambers]

Does not affect me directly but Bangkok is such an energizing place where anything seems possible, absolutely overloaded with small scale Thai entrepeneurs, that it is a pity that the government can't get its head around the idea that farang can start up one-man companies in Thailand and rapidly expand them over a few years until they make serious dosh for the owners and the country... god knows how many lost opportunities have gone down over the year. As someone else said, it is mostly the criminal types who thrive at the lower business levels - the Thais they deal with well understanding the power of retribution!

[Misty]

absolutely overloaded with small scale Thai entrepeneurs,

And sadly some of those small scale Thai entrepreneurs may benefit by hiring a foreign employee or two. Too bad that the laws & regulations make it equally difficult for Thai entrpreneurs to have foreign employees as for foreign entrepreneurs. So much for government policy encouraging SMEs and start-ups!

On a separate note, Nontaburial, have you had luck getting your one year extension? Are they giving you a grace period to get the needed paperwork together?

[joskydive]

Just had a mail from a friend in the UK who went to get his 1 year Non-B at the Thai Embassy in London and even though he had all his paperwork in order, they would only give him a 3month visa.

He doesn't know yet if that is going to be a non-B or Tourist because they wouldn't tell him and he has to wait until it arrives in the post.

[tropo]

...more stringent regulations are being introduced...

This is another case where everybody is being burdened with a more complicated, more time-consuming and costlier procedure because of the irregular activities of a few. Understandable, but sad.

--

Maestro

I agree with Maestro. These regulations seem burdensome in the extreme but are caused by a few bad apples who seek to exploit Thailand's Visa system.

Why are "bad apples" playing around here in the first place? Surely such a complicated system would encourage it.

It's ironic trying to "bad apple" proof a rotten system.