U K: New Pensions Reform Bill Received Royal Assent

[Mobi]

Excuse me if this subject has already been posted as the UK bill received Royal Assent when I was in OZ on 26th July.

As far as I can discern from reading the blurb on the DWP website, the qualifying period for a full pension has been reduced from 40 years (for men) to 30 years, for all those due to receive a pension on or after April 2010.

In my case this means that I will now receive a full pension as I already have 34 qualifying years.

The only thing that puzzles me - and I will try to investigate - is that my previous information from DWP was that the number of qualifying years were 44, not 40, so I'm not sure where the 40 comes from.

Anyway it looks like good news for some of us out here in LOS.

PS Apologies that I did not mention 'UK' in the topic title. Can any Mods insert please?

Edited August 24, 2007 by PeaceBlondie
Title corrected by request of the OP

[Neeranam]

Is this the British one? I doubt I'll get any with 5 years work.

How many years do you have to work in thailand?

[GuestHouse]

Indeed this is good news - Better news for UK pensioners livng in Thailand would be the reform of the rules that deny UK Pensioners living overseas (in certain countries, including Thailand) the right to annual cost of living increases in their pensions.

I've said before and I still believe that it would be a good idea to get a local campaign up writing to complain to UK MPs over this injustice.

[Mobi]

Here is the link:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/pensionsreform/

I was previously advised that the minimum contribution period is 25 years.

You get nothing for working in Thailand unless you are paid out of the UK and your employer pays contributions, or you pay a self employed or non-employed voluntary contribution.

If you are likely to break the 25 year barrier, it might pay you make up past contributions and pay from now on. A letter or email to DWP quoting your NI number will produce a full estimate of your pension at today's rates, how many contributions you have made, and how many you will be allowed to make to fill or partially fill any backlogs, etc.

[Neeranam]

Here is the link:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/pensionsreform/

I was previously advised that the minimum contribution period is 25 years.

You get nothing for working in Thailand unless you are paid out of the UK and your employer pays contributions, or you pay a self employed or non-employed voluntary contribution.

If you are likely to break the 25 year barrier, it might pay you make up past contributions and pay from now on. A letter or email to DWP quoting your NI number will produce a full estimate of your pension at today's rates, how many contributions you have made, and how many you will be allowed to make to fill or partially fill any backlogs, etc.

I may just make the repayments, but it's a BIG gamble because we don't know what new rule the govt will make, and i could be dead by the im I'm 70.

[the gent]

Neeranam, I shouldn't sweat it if I were you since the pension payable is so footling, scarcely 90 GBP a week, you might as well invest any disposible income you currently have in lottery tickets.

[Penkoprod]

Excuse me if this subject has already been posted as the UK bill received Royal Assent when I was in OZ on 26th July.

As far as I can discern from reading the blurb on the DWP website, the qualifying period for a full pension has been reduced from 40 years (for men) to 30 years, for all those due to receive a pension on or after April 2010.

In my case this means that I will now receive a full pension as I already have 34 qualifying years.

The only thing that puzzles me - and I will try to investigate - is that my previous information from DWP was that the number of qualifying years were 44, not 40, so I'm not sure where the 40 comes from.

Anyway it looks like good news for some of us out here in LOS.

PS Apologies that I did not mention 'UK' in the topic title. Can any Mods insert please?

You may well find, however that what was forecast (in money terms) before this bill and what will now become the ammount payable to you as a State Pension in a few years will be vastly different (and NOT to our advantage)

Common sense tells me that lowering the qualifying period by more than 30% may well lead to both a 30% reduction in State Pension, and, more importantly, with a normal working life of about 50 years, leaves one paying into something and getting little extra for more years than under the old rules

We have had years and years, and government after government telling us that the State Pension scheme is unsustainable, so anyone saying this is a good thing, is sadly deluding themselves

Penkoprod

[JetsetBkk]

Neeranam, I shouldn't sweat it if I were you since the pension payable is so footling, scarcely 90 GBP a week, you might as well invest any disposible income you currently have in lottery tickets.

24,000 baht / month "footling"? Who are you kidding?

it would be a good idea to get a local campaign up writing to complain to UK MPs over this injustice.

Better if it were international - worldwide - with all expats in these "un-uprated" countries promising to vote for whichever UK party promises to stop this injustice. 400,000 votes would make a big difference to the outcome of a general election.

[Mobi]

With all due respect a lot of nonsense is being posted here.

If you bothered to read the link I posted you would find that future pensions are going to be partly funded out of a plan to gradually increase the pensionable age of men - and to slowly bring women's pensionable ages into line with men. All this will save billions.

Then again, if you read on you will find that not only will pensions continue to increase annually, but in future they will increase in line with earnings not inflation, which is currently the case.This will almost certainly produce greater annual increments.

As of Aug 2006, my 100% state pension would have been 157 pounds per week, which approximates 555,000 Baht per year at today's rates. This will obviously increase by the time I am pensionable. If that's not worth having I don't know what is.

when the qualifying period was 44 years, I did a calculation to determine if I made up the short fall with voluntary contributions, how long would I have to live past 65 to be ahead, and it was only a couple of years or so.

Luckily, now I don't even have to do that.

Instead of spouting off a load of nonsense, if you are close to or above the 25 years minimum qualifying period, I suggest you get a forecast from the DWP and see where you stand. It may well be worth your while putting you <deleted> in gear and taking some action to your benefit.

Yes the freezing of pensions to those in Thailand, once you start receiving it, is a bummer, but it's not all bad news.

[sukanyacondo]

Indeed this is good news - Better news for UK pensioners livng in Thailand would be the reform of the rules that deny UK Pensioners living overseas (in certain countries, including Thailand) the right to annual cost of living increases in their pensions.

I've said before and I still believe that it would be a good idea to get a local campaign up writing to complain to UK MPs over this injustice.

Its a blooooody disgrace it really is!!!! I have paid in about 26 years worth of NI contributions so will work in the Uk for another 4 years to get the 30. How about if i die will my Thai wife receive a cut of it???? Only married in Thailand but all legal. I know the Uk govt will accept we are married but how about the pension rights??

[BIGTOE3]

With all due respect a lot of nonsense is being posted here.

If you bothered to read the link I posted you would find that future pensions are going to be partly funded out of a plan to gradually increase the pensionable age of men - and to slowly bring women's pensionable ages into line with men. All this will save billions.

Then again, if you read on you will find that not only will pensions continue to increase annually, but in future they will increase in line with earnings not inflation, which is currently the case.This will almost certainly produce greater annual increments.

As of Aug 2006, my 100% state pension would have been 157 pounds per week, which approximates 555,000 Baht per year at today's rates. This will obviously increase by the time I am pensionable. If that's not worth having I don't know what is.

when the qualifying period was 44 years, I did a calculation to determine if I made up the short fall with voluntary contributions, how long would I have to live past 65 to be ahead, and it was only a couple of years or so.

Luckily, now I don't even have to do that.

Instead of spouting off a load of nonsense, if you are close to or above the 25 years minimum qualifying period, I suggest you get a forecast from the DWP and see where you stand. It may well be worth your while putting you <deleted> in gear and taking some action to your benefit.

Yes the freezing of pensions to those in Thailand, once you start receiving it, is a bummer, but it's not all bad news.

With respect IF you keep a UK address you will receive the annual increases.

I am sure you all have some relatives that still stay in UK.????

YES IT IS VERY GOOD NEWS TO EVERYONE WHO QUALIFYS - I have checked my personal case and MOBI is right. well done Mobi..

BT just putting my pennies worth in.

[Mobi]

With respect IF you keep a UK address you will receive the annual increases.

I am sure you all have some relatives that still stay in UK.????

YES IT IS VERY GOOD NEWS TO EVERYONE WHO QUALIFYS - I have checked my personal case and MOBI is right. well done Mobi..

BT just putting my pennies worth in.

Also with respect I would be very careful about using a UK address for your pension if you live in Thailand. I know for a fact that if there is even the slightest suspicion that you may not live there, they actually go round and check up on you. There are literally hundreds of thousand of pensioners living abroad in places like Thailand and believe me the DWP is not unaware of illegal plans such as yours.

More to the point, if you are holding offshore funds and/or have offshore income and are claiming non residency for tax purposes, you will jeopardise your tax status if you try to maintain an address in the UK for your state pension.

In any event, doing this is clearly illegal, and in a worse case scenario you could end up in jail.

Up to you - but don't say you haven't been warned.

[BIGTOE3]

Indeed this is good news - Better news for UK pensioners livng in Thailand would be the reform of the rules that deny UK Pensioners living overseas (in certain countries, including Thailand) the right to annual cost of living increases in their pensions.

I've said before and I still believe that it would be a good idea to get a local campaign up writing to complain to UK MPs over this injustice.

Its a blooooody disgrace it really is!!!! I have paid in about 26 years worth of NI contributions so will work in the Uk for another 4 years to get the 30. How about if i die will my Thai wife receive a cut of it???? Only married in Thailand but all legal. I know the Uk govt will accept we are married but how about the pension rights??

I am not an expert in this particular area but have a friend who is an expert in UK pensions so have asked him to post here an answer to your query however like all things these days re the FSA he will probably need to know more info to give specific answer.

He has been a guest for approx 2 years but I have asked him to register today to assist you.

So look out for MOUSERLESS'S REPLY - HOPE IT HELPS you.

BT

[BIGTOE3]

With respect IF you keep a UK address you will receive the annual increases.

I am sure you all have some relatives that still stay in UK.????

YES IT IS VERY GOOD NEWS TO EVERYONE WHO QUALIFYS - I have checked my personal case and MOBI is right. well done Mobi..

BT just putting my pennies worth in.

Also with respect I would be very careful about using a UK address for your pension if you live in Thailand. I know for a fact that if there is even the slightest suspicion that you may not live there, they actually go round and check up on you. There are literally hundreds of thousand of pensioners living abroad in places like Thailand and believe me the DWP is not unaware of illegal plans such as yours.

More to the point, if you are holding offshore funds and/or have offshore income and are claiming non residency for tax purposes, you will jeopardise your tax status if you try to maintain an address in the UK for your state pension.

In any event, doing this is clearly illegal, and in a worse case scenario you could end up in jail.

Up to you - but don't say you haven't been warned.

I do of course with my last post presume the pensioner does travel back to UK at least once a year and I did not say anything at all re non residency or offshore income.

I would never recommend anything that is ILLEGAL to any member or poster BTW.

BT

[Mobi]

I do of course with my last post presume the pensioner does travel back to UK at least once a year and I did not say anything at all re non residency or offshore income.

I would never recommend anything that is ILLEGAL to any member or poster BTW.

BT

Erm... I don't think that going back to the UK once a year will entitle you to claim you are living in the UK and therefore entitled to the annual increases. I'm not an expert, but I would guess anything in excess of 3 months away in year would disqualify you, as it now does for free medical treatment etc.

I suggest you get some expert advice on this. As I said, the DWP are fully aware of all efforts to circumvent the 'no increase' rule that applies to certain countries, and if it were as easy as making a trip to the UK every year to qualify, everyone would be doing it - including me!!

Think about it.

[the gent]

I have no idea how Mobi's state pension has been calculated but the current basic state pension applicable to most who qualify is a meagre 87.30GBP per week. Not exactly a king's ransom after a life time of contributions I would suggest and certainly insufficient to sustain body and soul in the UK. I suppose the more frugal could survive on it in Thailand but I can't imagine how.

I still maintain that it constitutes nothing more than pocket money and can only have the deepest sympathy for the poor unfortunates who have had no other choice but to rely upon it for sole source of income in their retirement. I think it is utterly shameful that the pension is among the lowest in the developed world but then we have been the most poorly governed for far too long.

[BIGTOE3]

I do of course with my last post presume the pensioner does travel back to UK at least once a year and I did not say anything at all re non residency or offshore income.

I would never recommend anything that is ILLEGAL to any member or poster BTW.

BT

Erm... I don't think that going back to the UK once a year will entitle you to claim you are living in the UK and therefore entitled to the annual increases. I'm not an expert, but I would guess anything in excess of 3 months away in year would disqualify you, as it now does for free medical treatment etc.

I suggest you get some expert advice on this. As I said, the DWP are fully aware of all efforts to circumvent the 'no increase' rule that applies to certain countries, and if it were as easy as making a trip to the UK every year to qualify, everyone would be doing it - including me!!

Think about it.

#

I will think about it and as I said before THANKYOU for your original post.

BT

[Mobi]

I have no idea how Mobi's state pension has been calculated but the current basic state pension applicable to most who qualify is a meagre 87.30GBP per week. Not exactly a king's ransom after a life time of contributions I would suggest and certainly insufficient to sustain body and soul in the UK. I suppose the more frugal could survive on it in Thailand but I can't imagine how.

I still maintain that it constitutes nothing more than pocket money and can only have the deepest sympathy for the poor unfortunates who have had no other choice but to rely upon it for sole source of income in their retirement. I think it is utterly shameful that the pension is among the lowest in the developed world but then we have been the most poorly governed for far too long.

I have my quote in front of me. The basic pension for me is 84, and then I get what they call 'additional state pension' amounting to 73 pounds. Total 157.

I certainly didn't claim that anyone could live on this kind of money - just that it is worth making a bit of effort to get what you are entitled to, and if it means making a small investment to up the back contribution shortfall etc - do the maths and see if it's worth it.

I know at least two elderly Brits in Bangkok who would welcome even a few thousand Baht a month to supplement their current income. It all helps - even if it just buys a few beers, or helps pay a utility bill.. whatever.

For me - despite my vast wealth - I still wouldn't turn down half a million Baht plus a year - or even 100k or so. I can certainly find many things to do with it.

But I do agree with you that it is pretty shameful that anyone should be expected to live on this kind of money - either in the UK or elsewhere.

Edited August 24, 2007 by Mobi

[the gent]

How did you qualify for the additional state pension?

How old are you and how many years did you contribute?

If you have spare cash to invest I may be able to assist in adding to your portfolio. My representatives Messrs.Sue,Grabbit & Runne are only a phone call away...........

[Carmine6]

Here is the link:

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/pensionsreform/

I was previously advised that the minimum contribution period is 25 years.

You get nothing for working in Thailand unless you are paid out of the UK and your employer pays contributions, or you pay a self employed or non-employed voluntary contribution.

If you are likely to break the 25 year barrier, it might pay you make up past contributions and pay from now on. A letter or email to DWP quoting your NI number will produce a full estimate of your pension at today's rates, how many contributions you have made, and how many you will be allowed to make to fill or partially fill any backlogs, etc.

Am I reading it right that there will be a large amount of UK retirees come 2010? Basically instead of 1 year of eligible retirees, all of a sudden come 2010 there will be 11 years worth of eligible retirees? People with 27 to 37 years of contributions today will have at least 30 in 2010, but are not eligible between now and then.

I hope the Basic State Pension will be based on contribution years or amount so those high 30's contribution year folks get a little extra for the extra years of work.

If that is the case, seems like some opportunities for businesses that benefit from retirees like travel agencies.

[JetsetBkk]

You may well find, however that what was forecast (in money terms) before this bill and what will now become the ammount payable to you as a State Pension in a few years will be vastly different (and NOT to our advantage)

Nail, head:

State Pension forecast

Important information

Unfortunately, the Department for Work and Pensions is temporarily unable to provide customers, who reach State Pension Age on or after 6 April 2010, with a State Pension forecast. This is because the computer systems used to provide State Pension forecasts are in the process of being updated to reflect the recent changes to the State Pension rules introduced through the Pensions Act 2007.

Over the next year we will be updating the computer systems used to provide State Pension forecasts, to enable us to provide a service that will be available to all to use. We aim to have the system changes in place by Autumn 2008.

Translation: "Can you hang on a year or so (and hopefully forget what we told you the last time) before we drop the bombshell of how little you're going to get now."

http://www.thepensionservice.gov.uk/atoz/a.../rpforecast.asp

[the gent]

Oh for goodness sakes, what does it take for folk to grasp the bleedin' obvious.

The UK state pension is worth <deleted> all when one takes into account contributions made but 'twas ever thus. Nobody in their right mind ever thought in the past 20 years that it would be sufficient to pay for their needs upon retirement and in reality most made alternative plans. Naturally, the feckless, the diminished,the unlucky and the plain stupid haven't but since when did any society not include such unfortunates.

The difference in the UK, as compared to more realistic societies not tainted by Fabian socialism, is the British lower end somehow believed the government of the day will always protect them simply because the bunch of idiot pseudo intellectual social scientists dressed up as politicians in 1945 told their fathers that they would.

Now 60 years on the baby boomer generation are looking to pick up their dues but poor old Blighty never quite got its act together until the 1980s when market forces were finally allowed to operate by which time it was too late for paltry contributions hitherto levied by the State to yield a dividend worth a toss.

The jig was up years ago but nobody wanted to do anything about it since votes were at stake. Either contributions equivalent to 15% of income were extracted from workers trying to get by on marginal incomes or the value of pensions stunted by unfeasibly small deductions were allowed to atrophy and become nugatory. Guess what, they went for the latter.

Now, Nulabour have decided upon a feeble compromise unlikely to affect anyone any much but the actuaries get to breathe again because eventually nobody will pick up a pension until aged 70 by which time the grim reaper will have upped the dividend his own way.

It's worth zilch now and it'll be worth even less later until it don't matter no more.

Lump it or get even and shoot a politician. Either way, UK state pensioners are worth diddlysquat.

[percy2]

Oh for goodness sakes, what does it take for folk to grasp the bleedin' obvious.

The UK state pension is worth <deleted> all when one takes into account contributions made but 'twas ever thus. Nobody in their right mind ever thought in the past 20 years that it would be sufficient to pay for their needs upon retirement and in reality most made alternative plans. Naturally, the feckless, the diminished,the unlucky and the plain stupid haven't but since when did any society not include such unfortunates.

The difference in the UK, as compared to more realistic societies not tainted by Fabian socialism, is the British lower end somehow believed the government of the day will always protect them simply because the bunch of idiot pseudo intellectual social scientists dressed up as politicians in 1945 told their fathers that they would.

Now 60 years on the baby boomer generation are looking to pick up their dues but poor old Blighty never quite got its act together until the 1980s when market forces were finally allowed to operate by which time it was too late for paltry contributions hitherto levied by the State to yield a dividend worth a toss.

The jig was up years ago but nobody wanted to do anything about it since votes were at stake. Either contributions equivalent to 15% of income were extracted from workers trying to get by on marginal incomes or the value of pensions stunted by unfeasibly small deductions were allowed to atrophy and become nugatory. Guess what, they went for the latter.

Now, Nulabour have decided upon a feeble compromise unlikely to affect anyone any much but the actuaries get to breathe again because eventually nobody will pick up a pension until aged 70 by which time the grim reaper will have upped the dividend his own way.

It's worth zilch now and it'll be worth even less later until it don't matter no more.

Lump it or get even and shoot a politician. Either way, UK state pensioners are worth diddlysquat.

I enjoyed reading that!

Cheers

[Mobi]

(The gent) How did you qualify for the additional state pension?

How old are you and how many years did you contribute?

I am 61 and I have no idea how many years I contributed to the additional state pension- and am not about to pour through all my records to find out. All I know is I got it!

(Carmine6)Am I reading it right that there will be a large amount of UK retirees come 2010? Basically instead of 1 year of eligible retirees, all of a sudden come 2010 there will be 11 years worth of eligible retirees? People with 27 to 37 years of contributions today will have at least 30 in 2010, but are not eligible between now and then.

I hope the Basic State Pension will be based on contribution years or amount so those high 30's contribution year folks get a little extra for the extra years of work.

I think you've got it completely wrong.

There will be no difference in the number of pensioners claiming a pension in 2010 - just a change in the amount of pension some of them will receive.

The minimum qualifying contribution period is 25 years contributions. As fas as I am aware that hasn't changed. So any one who has 25 years of contributions on their record will get a pension. Nothing changes.

What has changed is the number of contribution years required to get a 100% pension.

Under the old rules, those who had made 30 years contributions would have received 30/40 (3/4) of the full pension. Now they will receive 30/30 (100%). Likewise those who had previous made only the minimum of 25 years of contributions would have receive 25/40, whereas under the new rule they will receive 25/30. In addition there is some scope for making up the shortfall in back contributions. Got it now?

(The gent)It's worth zilch now and it'll be worth even less later until it don't matter no more.

I repeat 555k Baht per year might be zilch to you but it's something to me. Even a straight pension equates to over 300k Baht per year.

If it don't matter to you, then maybe you would like to give it to some deserving cause?

This thread is about informing Brits about their increased entitlement - not about discussing how we have been ripped off or whether the pension is worth collecting. That's entirely up to you.

Maybe you would like to start your own thread deploring the pension policies of successive British governments. Personally, I was always aware that I would never be able to get by on a state pension and made alternative arrangements when I was young enough and fit enough to do so.

Edited August 25, 2007 by Mobi

[raslin]

Money is money. My reduced state pension (reduced because I have been here 20 years) is a bit more than my monthly salary was while working for a Thai university.

In North Bangkok 6 years ago we could live on Baht 35,000/month no problem.

[Nibor1945]

Hi. This is good news for me, as I retired to Thailand after making 34 years contributions to the state pension scheme. I reach the age of 65 on 18 July 2010, so I squeezed in to qualify for the reduced years contribution rate by 3 months!

I have contacted the DWP (department of Works and Pensions) recently and as far as I understand would receive (based on todays rates) 84 pounds sterling plus another 60% for my Thai wife (married in Thailand). When I "pop my clogs" she will continue to receive a portion of that 60% the amount varying on her age and the age of our children (if my wife was under the retirement age she would continue to receive it until the youngest child reaches the age of 19). Payable to an account in Thailand, The amount we receive would stay at that rate untill returning to live in England. If you return to England for more than a month you can receive the full current amount until you leave again.

As I understand it if you leave England for more than 3 months your pension is "Refrozen" at you original frozen rate! You have the option of paying your contibutions as a lump sum to boost your years up to the Basic State Pension rate, that works out at approx 350 pounds sterling a year (ish) for those unfortunate enough to be young then the goal posts are receding into the distance and for someone of say 48 ish, they are now looking at receiving their pension at 67 years.

I am now catagorised as being (not normally resident for tax purposes) but of course all income derived from the UK is taxable inclusive of my pensions.

I am certainly no expert as you can see by my ramblings, but it does give you a rough idea. Will the real experts take into acount that I am the product of a Brotish Secondary eduction before shredding me.

[doctormann]

The Additional State Pension is, I believe, something that you are entitled to if you did not 'Contract Out' to a scheme run by you employer (assuming that you were employed, rather than self-employed). Additional contributions would have been made - maybe called Graduated Pension Contributions. Or maybe it was possible to just pay extra contributions anyway?

Most people whose employer offered their own scheme opted to 'contract out' as the private schemes seemed to offer more for your money. As we all know, some private schemes have failed to deliver so in fact it may have been better to stay in the government scheme. Crystal ball required, as usual!

DM

[JohnC]

I had been following the white paper on this subject and am delighted to hear it has received Royal Assent! when I retired I was 59 with 43 qualifying years out of a minimum of 44 for 100% pension, however it was not worth paying for the extra year to make up the pension. That has now been overtaken so I will receive 100% when I reach 65, it has always been possible to get a forecast from DWP using form BR19 or applying online but that is obviously suspended whilst they update their system.

A couple of points to note, there is a Brit in Pattaya who started a campaign to lobby the British Government on the inequality of those ex pats living in Thailand who do not recieve the annual increase on their state pension despite paying full tax on that and any other UK based income. He regulalry writes to the letters page of the Pattaya People with his details etc so perhaps if we all joined his campaign it might help, in addition the DWP website has the following comment:

Pensions Forum - Building consensus

To build a lasting consensus on pensions we need to keep listening to what you have to say.

That's where the Pensions Forum comes in.

As well as keeping you updated on the latest Government activity on pensions, it will enable you to put your views direct to Ministers via the weblog.

So again we could all respond to http://www.dwp.gov.uk/pensionsreform/ and make our feelings felt.

Finally for those that castigate the low pension whilst I agree it is insultingly low what was not mentioned that this is the basic state pension and can be topped up to ensure older people have a minimum income at the same time they can have help with rent and local (rates) taxes etc.

Interestingly I wrote a thesis on older people in the EU in 1977 and at that time UK pensioners were the least well off, 30 years later it would appear nothing has changed despite which party was in power!!

[naka]

Oh for goodness sakes, what does it take for folk to grasp the bleedin' obvious.

The UK state pension is worth <deleted> all when one takes into account contributions made but 'twas ever thus. Nobody in their right mind ever thought in the past 20 years that it would be sufficient to pay for their needs upon retirement and in reality most made alternative plans. Naturally, the feckless, the diminished,the unlucky and the plain stupid haven't but since when did any society not include such unfortunates.

The difference in the UK, as compared to more realistic societies not tainted by Fabian socialism, is the British lower end somehow believed the government of the day will always protect them simply because the bunch of idiot pseudo intellectual social scientists dressed up as politicians in 1945 told their fathers that they would.

Now 60 years on the baby boomer generation are looking to pick up their dues but poor old Blighty never quite got its act together until the 1980s when market forces were finally allowed to operate by which time it was too late for paltry contributions hitherto levied by the State to yield a dividend worth a toss.

The jig was up years ago but nobody wanted to do anything about it since votes were at stake. Either contributions equivalent to 15% of income were extracted from workers trying to get by on marginal incomes or the value of pensions stunted by unfeasibly small deductions were allowed to atrophy and become nugatory. Guess what, they went for the latter.

Now, Nulabour have decided upon a feeble compromise unlikely to affect anyone any much but the actuaries get to breathe again because eventually nobody will pick up a pension until aged 70 by which time the grim reaper will have upped the dividend his own way.

It's worth zilch now and it'll be worth even less later until it don't matter no more.

Lump it or get even and shoot a politician. Either way, UK state pensioners are worth diddlysquat.

Agreed Gent.

It's nothing more than a bit of pocket money on top of that which you should have put by for yourself during all those years.

Naka.

[naka]

Is this the British one? I doubt I'll get any with 5 years work.

How many years do you have to work in thailand?

Hey ... don't knock it ... 114 weeks and you could buy a brand new PICKUP.

Naka.