Which First: Marry In Thailand Or Apply For Visa To U.s.

[BenMajor]

My understanding is that getting a Fiancee Visa to the U.S. is often considerably easier & faster than getting a Marriage Visa. Does that mean I should definitely avoid getting a Thai Marraige Certificate before my fiancee applies for a visa to the U.S.? My fiancee and I are currently planning to do the religious ceremony at her home for now. But doing the marriage certificate in Thailand would allow her to change her last name there to my own, which she desires to do. Also, it would make her and I feel "more married" and make it easier for some legal things(?) Thanks, Ben

[donx]

It used to be (and I think it is still the case) that getting a fiancee visa is faster than getting a visa based upon marriage since the fiancee visa is not considered an immigration visa. What we did back in 1999 was get the fiancee visa which took about 4 months. In the US we got formally married. Then 3 months later we returned to Thailand and had the village marriage ceremony.

[jetjock]

It has been mentioned here many times before that the fiance visa is the quickest way. I did it that way and it should take about 4 to 6 months depending on immigrations current processing wait time. I always try to keep things as simple as possible so when I married my wife here in the US, we decided that she should keep her name until after she get her citizenship as that cuts down on sending in extra forms. It takes 3 years to get US citizenship so we have only one more year to go. Good luck on whatever way you decide to choose.

[ThaidleHands]

It may bear repeating here that the religious ceremony has no legal standing and would not usually have an impact on an application for an American fiancee or spouse visa. Only the registration of the marriage with the Thai government would count.

That said, if applying for the fiancee visa, it's generally recommended not to mention the religious ceremony if one has taken place. It only serves to cloud the issue; withholding the fact of the ceremony is not against the spirit or the letter of the law.

[BenMajor]

It may bear repeating here that the religious ceremony has no legal standing and would not usually have an impact on an application for an American fiancee or spouse visa. Only the registration of the marriage with the Thai government would count.

That said, if applying for the fiancee visa, it's generally recommended not to mention the religious ceremony if one has taken place. It only serves to cloud the issue; withholding the fact of the ceremony is not against the spirit or the letter of the law.

ThaidleHands, your post answered my questions best: religious ceremony has no legal impact, but avoid mentioning it during the visa interview if done beforehand. Got it. Thanks! (But it's ironic that I can't use the religious ceremony as proof of intention to legally marry...)

[Chingatchgook]

Why can't you just get a tourist Visa and get married later? Or is that somehow frowned upon?

I personally know someone who has a Thai ole lady and she just scored a 10 year B1/B2 visa to the US and they are not even officially married.

[jstumbo]

It may bear repeating here that the religious ceremony has no legal standing and would not usually have an impact on an application for an American fiancee or spouse visa. Only the registration of the marriage with the Thai government would count.

That said, if applying for the fiancee visa, it's generally recommended not to mention the religious ceremony if one has taken place. It only serves to cloud the issue; withholding the fact of the ceremony is not against the spirit or the letter of the law.

ThaidleHands, your post answered my questions best: religious ceremony has no legal impact, but avoid mentioning it during the visa interview if done beforehand. Got it. Thanks! (But it's ironic that I can't use the religious ceremony as proof of intention to legally marry...)

Getting married in Thailand is just the same as in the US. You can go to the church, have a wedding, eat cake and do everything. Unless you sign the marriage license and register it with the appropriate authorities, you are not married. Or, you can skip the church, just go to the courthouse, fill out the paperwork, and be done with it. Same same.

This is a very common thing to do if one persons family is in one country and the other one is in another country. You have two weddings, but are only married when you register the paperwork required by the country.

If it was me, I would tell them that I had the thai wedding ceremony, show them pictures. Just state that it was just a ceremony for her friends and family, and the official marriage will take place in the US. Marriage and Wedding are two separate things.

Edited November 17, 2007 by jstumbo

[x5000]

It may bear repeating here that the religious ceremony has no legal standing and would not usually have an impact on an application for an American fiancee or spouse visa. Only the registration of the marriage with the Thai government would count.

That said, if applying for the fiancee visa, it's generally recommended not to mention the religious ceremony if one has taken place. It only serves to cloud the issue; withholding the fact of the ceremony is not against the spirit or the letter of the law.

ThaidleHands, your post answered my questions best: religious ceremony has no legal impact, but avoid mentioning it during the visa interview if done beforehand. Got it. Thanks! (But it's ironic that I can't use the religious ceremony as proof of intention to legally marry...)

Getting married in Thailand is just the same as in the US. You can go to the church, have a wedding, eat cake and do everything. Unless you sign the marriage license and register it with the appropriate authorities, you are not married. Or, you can skip the church, just go to the courthouse, fill out the paperwork, and be done with it. Same same.

This is a very common thing to do if one persons family is in one country and the other one is in another country. You have two weddings, but are only married when you register the paperwork required by the country.

If it was me, I would tell them that I had the thai wedding ceremony, show them pictures. Just state that it was just a ceremony for her friends and family, and the official marriage will take place in the US. Marriage and Wedding are two separate things.

Lots of answers but none very clear.

Here are your options. Let's just say I am personally well experienced about the subject but since unfriendly eyes might be prying I won't go in too much details:

Option 1) Get her to come to the US on a tourist visa. Marry her there and fill for an adjustment of status. While you wait for the paperwork to go through, you, at least, will be with your wife.

Option 2: file for a fiance visa. It will take anywhere from 4 to 7 months. ( if the lazy asses in the embassy decide to work or not that day) Be aware that only one day is dedicated to Fiance visa interviews during the week while 3 are for tourists visas interviews. You will be in the US waiting for things to happen and your wife will be calling you everyday , accusing you of being a bigamist....because let's face it , how can a Thai woman understand that the greatest country on earth(US) is still run by a bunch of useless govermement employees who sure as hel_l do as little as possible. So the only other answer for her, will be to believe you are already marred!

If you do a religious ceremony, DO NOT under any circumstances report it, mention it or else you will have to fill for a different visa and that time you are looking at a 2-3 years waiting period.

In the mean time over 10,000 people enter the US illegally EVERY DAY through the Mexican border but it is a known fact that Thai represent such a national security risk that the paper work should wait for ever to be processed, especailly when you are /want to be LEGALLY married

Hope that answers your question

Edited November 18, 2007 by x5000

[gavstah]

Option 4 (my own experience)

Get married in Thailand - register the marriage at your wife's local Amphur office, which will give you your Thai marriage certificate. Have baby. Get baby's citizenship sorted at the US embassy (Consular Report of Birth Abroad). Then have wife apply for tourist visa to the US, showing proof of marriage, baby's Thai birth certificate, aforementioned CRBA, signed statement from husband you're only going home for a visit. Wifey was issued a ten year multi-entry tourist visa.

You can at any time while you are visiting in the US change status as stated in a prior post - please note that this is severly frowned upon by the embassy staff and ICE in general. We were admonished by the consular officer who gave my wife her visa to be sure to begin the permanent visa process to here in Thailand - his direct quote "Make sure that when you decide to move back to the States, you come back here and apply for the permanent visa"

Now, if you're not planning on living full time in Thailand, this route would not be your best choice. Since I have no plans to move back to the US anytime soon, it worked well for me.

[LiveSteam]

how can a Thai woman understand that the greatest country on earth(US) is still run by a bunch of useless govermement employees who sure as hel_l do as little as possible.

In the mean time over 10,000 people enter the US illegally EVERY DAY through the Mexican border but it is a known fact that Thai represent such a national security risk that the paper work should wait for ever to be processed, especailly when you are /want to be LEGALLY married

Hope that answers your question

I love it and your right I have applied for the K2 visa through Siam Legal about 3 months ago so far I have paid 80,000 baht plus and waiting for the results in a couple of months. I hope I hear from them again because every 2 to 3 weeks I ask them for progress and I never get an e-mail reply. I will keep ThaiVisa informed with my progress good or bad. Should have crossed over the Rio Grande.

LiveSteam

[jstumbo]

Option 1) Get her to come to the US on a tourist visa. Marry her there and fill for an adjustment of status. While you wait for the paperwork to go through, you, at least, will be with your wife.

This option is also known as the "FRAUD" option. When your wife files for adjustment of status, she may be denied because they could say that she came in on the tourist visa planning to get married. She could be deported, and banned from entering the US for many years to come.

That being said, I have a friend that used this option and did not have any problems. They did hire an attorney to handle the immigration stuff, because it can become very tricky.

You have to ask yourself if you are willing to risk it.

If you do a religious ceremony, DO NOT under any circumstances report it, mention it or else you will have to fill for a different visa and that time you are looking at a 2-3 years waiting period.

There is no way that they will have you file a K3 (wife) visa instead of the K1 (fiance) visa. You are not legally married in Thailand, so you cannot apply for the K3, that is only if you are married. Also, I doubt that the wait time on a K3 visa is 2-3 years for a K3.

Do some searches on the internet. There are sites that give the wait times for different visa types.

*edit to fix quote

Edited November 19, 2007 by jstumbo

[Scott]

I used to work in this field for the U.S. Department of State (Embassy), so I do know a little about the situation--I worked in more than one country as well. My work was in "rejection review", so I saw (reviewed) the cases that have been rejected--so most of my experience is on the negative side of things. I know what can go wrong.

1. A fiancee visa is one of the most difficult to get. The the rejection rate is very high. Officers are quick to spot any holes in the story, conflicting information, inconsistencies. As a general rule, these visas are some of the most suspect.

2. A non-registered, tradition ceremony IS considered a legitimate ceremony. I saw many folks proceed to the US based on no legal paper trail. If they believe they are married, the community believes they are married and they followed some sort of traditional/religious ceremony. Sometimes affidavits were required from folks who attended etc (pictures worked well as well), but

if you get married your married. Of course, a registered marriage is much easier to trace and show.

3. Some years back, people coming in on fiancee and newly married couples, they were given a special CR status, meaning a conditional visa and that if the marriage turned out to be for immigration purposes, or didn't transpire, or failed--separation, divorce, the person was returned to their country of origin.

There are some good lawyers that can help you with the paperwork. Your best bet is to be completely honest. Most of the rejected cases I saw were people who were 'dancing around the truth', taking liberties with the truth and hiding something.

Best of luck to you.

[Captain Ron]

I used to work in this field for the U.S. Department of State (Embassy), so I do know a little about the situation--I worked in more than one country as well. My work was in "rejection review", so I saw (reviewed) the cases that have been rejected--so most of my experience is on the negative side of things. I know what can go wrong.

1. A fiancee visa is one of the most difficult to get. The the rejection rate is very high. Officers are quick to spot any holes in the story, conflicting information, inconsistencies. As a general rule, these visas are some of the most suspect.

2. A non-registered, tradition ceremony IS considered a legitimate ceremony. I saw many folks proceed to the US based on no legal paper trail. If they believe they are married, the community believes they are married and they followed some sort of traditional/religious ceremony. Sometimes affidavits were required from folks who attended etc (pictures worked well as well), but

if you get married your married. Of course, a registered marriage is much easier to trace and show.

3. Some years back, people coming in on fiancee and newly married couples, they were given a special CR status, meaning a conditional visa and that if the marriage turned out to be for immigration purposes, or didn't transpire, or failed--separation, divorce, the person was returned to their country of origin.

There are some good lawyers that can help you with the paperwork. Your best bet is to be completely honest. Most of the rejected cases I saw were people who were 'dancing around the truth', taking liberties with the truth and hiding something.

Best of luck to you.

Here is my experience

My thai lady and I tried for a tourist visa 2 times with no luck. they are not easy to get for Thais. Esp young women with no ties to thailnd like kids good job, home. We then went for the fiance visa. It took about 5-6 months. lots of paper work and stuff for her to do there like med and police reports. When her interview finally came up I went there to be with her for that which is pretty important. We got the visa and then we had a religious ceremony in her home town- we did not register it and still have not. She would've liked to change her name but that was more complicated-it can be done later on-probably for us after she gets her permanent green card and we want to spend time in LOS. I believe the US govt. recognizes that many cultures will not allow young women to go off with a guy if they're not married as that could cause the family great shame and there fore they will allow you to have a religious ceremony if you do not register it with the govt. But do like we did and it's not an issue. I have several friends who went the exact smae route with no problem as long as you can demonstrate support and a bonafide relationship-pjotos, hotel/plane recipts, phone calls etc. If you are young with no assets they will probably look at your app more closely but if you have substantial financial assets they figure you're not likely to get involved in a bogus marriage. good luck to you

[kojac_phx]

My understanding is that getting a Fiancee Visa to the U.S. is often considerably easier & faster than getting a Marriage Visa. Does that mean I should definitely avoid getting a Thai Marraige Certificate before my fiancee applies for a visa to the U.S.? My fiancee and I are currently planning to do the religious ceremony at her home for now. But doing the marriage certificate in Thailand would allow her to change her last name there to my own, which she desires to do. Also, it would make her and I feel "more married" and make it easier for some legal things(?) Thanks, Ben

Not true any longer. The fiancee and marriage visas now require the same forms and take similar durations to complete the process, though there is a bit more documentation attached when applying for the marriage visa (e.g. translation of marriage registration in Thailand) and a bit more upfront cost. File the I130 & I129F simultaneously and whichever gets approved first gets the interview that satisfies both applications. It makes the Adjustment of Status process much easier in the US, since your wife gets a two year multi-entry visa vs. your fiancee getting a 90-day single entry visa. There is not the rush to get settled, have your wedding/honeymoon, and hurry the paperwork. Overall, it took 6.5 months for my wife last year to go from application to marriage visa in passport, though it would have been faster without additional documentation requirements (IMBRA) introduced in the middle of the process.

[SoCal]

In Vietnam the consulate actually request to see the photos of the budhist/home wedding ceremony, and wedding party. If you cannot produce, then they doubt the credibility of your fiance visa, and will not likely approve. Maybe this is a regional issue, but no self respecting Vietnamese family would let their child travel half way around the world without this ceremony and party. The consulate knows this, and that is why they request evidence of this being done. If they do not submit the evidence, the couple appears dodgy.

[thaihome]

If you are married and live in Thailand and are planning on returning to the US to live, you can file the I-130 with Bangkok USCIS office and avoid going through one of the US Service Centers. This cuts the processing time considerably.

TH

[x5000]

Again, let me clarify that I speak from personal experience;

1) Tourist visa...best option as long as you can make sure to fit the criteria.( Large bank account, properties in Thailand and a good job) . The younger the wife, the more you need to convince that she won't bust the visa. Contrary to what is stated above, the odds that she will be deported if you ask for an adjustment of status are very slim. Of course , if she is officially staying with you and 3 weeks later turn up married to you, you had it coming.

2) Fiance Visa: 7 months right now at Bkk embassy , that is IF your paper work is in order. ( You will need to provide just about anything short of a sperm sample to prove that you relationship exits.)

3) Spouse visa: Same as Fiance visa? ...BULL . Currently 2-3 years waiting list depending on who you deal with.

By the way, I did too worked as a contractor for State . That did not do jack for me.

US embassy's attitude is that since you have a Thai GF/Wife, she MUST BE a whore and work bars. My last visit to the embassy, I saw a guy ready to punch the plated glass to break it in order to squeeze the neck of the consular officer that in front of me made the comment to him that" only a bargirl would be willing to marry an man as old as you." The guy was barely in his 40's the girl looked late 20's early 30's. Did I mention she was holding their daughters in her arms.

Now the surest way to get denied for a tourist visa is to have a baby. Contrary to what is stated above [again], you will get the visa for the baby ( depending if he is US citizen or not) BUT SHE WILL be denied on the ground that if you go to the US with her and the baby, she would have no compelling reasons to go back to Thailand. Think I am joking...there is the verified story of a decorate Navy boy with a 3 years marriage and a two year-old son to confimr that situation.

Finally don't go for any visa agencies or Thai lawyers. They have NO authotiries whatsoever to make things happen. It is up to the US government.

Again, I have worked for State and ... I am married to a Thai . I have been through the grinder. Be prepared and make sure to spend a lot of time with her because your relationship will suffer from this BS!

Best of luck!

[x5000]

... One more thing. The best place to get the most updatesd answers:

www.visajourney.com

Get the prozac ready ...cause it will get you depressed!

[x5000]

... One more thing. The best place to get the most updatesd answers:

www.visajourney.com

Get the prozac ready ...cause it will get you depressed!

[jstumbo]

If you are married and live in Thailand and are planning on returning to the US to live, you can file the I-130 with Bangkok USCIS office and avoid going through one of the US Service Centers. This cuts the processing time considerably.

TH

Most people file both the I-130 and the 129F that way they are working the system from both angles and go with the one that gets processed first.

[jstumbo]

3) Spouse visa: Same as Fiance visa? ...BULL . Currently 2-3 years waiting list depending on who you deal with.

The website that you suggested does not back up your 2-3 year waiting period for spousal visas. Here are the charts they have.

129F for K1 Fiance Visa

Add the 30 or so days from submitting the 129F until NOA1, that makes it about 239 days on average.

I-130 for Spousal Visa

Add to that the 30 or so days from submitting it until NOA1 and you get from 83-194 days for the I-130 route depending on which service center you go through.

129F for Spousal K3 Visa (says I130, but I believe it is a typo)

Add the 30 days for the submit to NOA1 and you have about 269 days.

Overall, it looks like the I130 Spousal visa route is the fastest, followed by the K1 Fiance visa, and then the K3 Spousal visa. I don't see the spousal route taking over 9 months, let alone 2-3 years.

Jim

[IMA_FARANG]

My understanding is that getting a Fiancee Visa to the U.S. is often considerably easier & faster than getting a Marriage Visa. Does that mean I should definitely avoid getting a Thai Marraige Certificate before my fiancee applies for a visa to the U.S.? My fiancee and I are currently planning to do the religious ceremony at her home for now. But doing the marriage certificate in Thailand would allow her to change her last name there to my own, which she desires to do. Also, it would make her and I feel "more married" and make it easier for some legal things(?) Thanks, Ben

I'm not an expert on this by any means but a Thai religious ceremony may not be considered a legal marriage by the embessy. Be careful, though, the Thai civil marriage ceremony (as done at an Amphur) is a legal marriage. If you register your marriage with the Thai authorities, you are legally married. Therefore it may mean you are no longer eligable for a Fiancee visa. The Fiancee visa is intended for someneone to take their prosective spouse to the U.S.A. for marriage. Before you do anything, get the embessy's expert advice, or you could land in trouble.

[kojac_phx]

Finally don't go for any visa agencies or Thai lawyers. They have NO authotiries whatsoever to make things happen. It is up to the US government.

While I agree they don't have any authority with the US Govt, the decent ones are well aware of what it takes to get one approved the first try. If you are not in-country and your girl is not familiar with BKK or a great English-speaker then a good one does provide some value. They will assist with filling out the forms (not difficult, but somewhat confusing in places) and mine even escorted my fiancee to get the police records check, the medical exam, ensured we got 'approved' pictures, took care of US Govt approved translations, completed all of the NOA2 paperwork prior to receiving the notice so when it arrived the response was immediately sent out, perform practice interviews with your fiancee so she'll be comfortable, etc., etc. And all for what I'd spend on a couple hours of time with a lawyer here in the states.

It sounds as if you've had some bad experience and want to generalize. If you take the time to shop around to find a good one and determine what help, if any, you require, a visa agency or immigration attorney can be very beneficial saving you tons of time by knowing all the necessary places to go, documents to collect, and gets VIP treatment at all the Thai Govt offices that a lot of documentation needs to be collected from.

[thaihome]

If you are married and live in Thailand and are planning on returning to the US to live, you can file the I-130 with Bangkok USCIS office and avoid going through one of the US Service Centers. This cuts the processing time considerably.

TH

Most people file both the I-130 and the 129F that way they are working the system from both angles and go with the one that gets processed first.

I again qualify what I am saying this only applies if you are resident in Thailand. It is possible to get the I-130 processed in Bangkok, have the interview at the consulate and be given a CR-1 spousal immigrant visa within 3 months.

No need to file the 129F.

if you are not resident then I guess filing both makes some sense.

TH

Edited November 21, 2007 by thaihome

[jstumbo]

If you are married and live in Thailand and are planning on returning to the US to live, you can file the I-130 with Bangkok USCIS office and avoid going through one of the US Service Centers. This cuts the processing time considerably.

TH

Most people file both the I-130 and the 129F that way they are working the system from both angles and go with the one that gets processed first.

I again qualify what I am saying this only applies if you are resident in Thailand. It is possible to get the I-130 processed in Bangkok, have the interview at the consulate and be given a CR-1 spousal immigrant visa within 3 months.

No need to file the 129F.

if you are not resident then I guess filing both makes some sense.

TH

Actually he needs to file it with the Department of Homeland Security office in BKK.

You cannot begin an application for an immigrant visa at US Embassy Bangkok. The process for all immigrant visas, other than the Diversity Visa Lottery process, begins with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in the U.S., or in limited cases when the petitioner resides in Thailand, with the DHS office in Bangkok.

Since it is a different department from the Department of State that runs the embassy, I am not sure where their office is located. More than likely I would think that it is also on the embassy grounds. You might want to talk to the embassy and find out where the DHS office is located to do Direct Consular Filing (DCF). DCF speeds things up a lot. But you can only do this if you are living in Thailand, you cannot do it while living in the US.

[flying]

Can I ask about the BKK office & the need to be a resident.

How long ahead of applying do you need to living in Thailand?

The speedy process time looks great & I am just about to start a K1 process.

Thank You for any info

[thaihome]

If you are married and live in Thailand and are planning on returning to the US to live, you can file the I-130 with Bangkok USCIS office and avoid going through one of the US Service Centers. This cuts the processing time considerably.

TH

Most people file both the I-130 and the 129F that way they are working the system from both angles and go with the one that gets processed first.

I again qualify what I am saying this only applies if you are resident in Thailand. It is possible to get the I-130 processed in Bangkok, have the interview at the consulate and be given a CR-1 spousal immigrant visa within 3 months.

No need to file the 129F.

if you are not resident then I guess filing both makes some sense.

TH

Actually he needs to file it with the Department of Homeland Security office in BKK.

You cannot begin an application for an immigrant visa at US Embassy Bangkok. The process for all immigrant visas, other than the Diversity Visa Lottery process, begins with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in the U.S., or in limited cases when the petitioner resides in Thailand, with the DHS office in Bangkok.

Since it is a different department from the Department of State that runs the embassy, I am not sure where their office is located. More than likely I would think that it is also on the embassy grounds. You might want to talk to the embassy and find out where the DHS office is located to do Direct Consular Filing (DCF). DCF speeds things up a lot. But you can only do this if you are living in Thailand, you cannot do it while living in the US.

Actually you would file at the Bangkok USCIS (U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, a “component” of DHS) office which is located in the Sindhorn Building across from the consulate on Wireless Rd. They are happy to respond to coherent e-mail questions at [email protected] and can clarify the residency question.

Since you don't file the petition with consulate it is not really a DCF. Once the local USCIS office has approved the form (apparently in as little as 2 days) they forward on the Consulate for scheduling of interview and the host of other forms you have to complete.

I am not an expert at this process, but I was involved with a friend of mine’s effort just a few months ago that took less then 3 months from application at the USCIS office to his wife receiving the visa. They had registered their marriage in Thailand the day before applying.

TH

[flying]

Actually you would file at the Bangkok USCIS (U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, a "component" of DHS) office which is located in the Sindhorn Building across from the consulate on Wireless Rd. They are happy to respond to coherent e-mail questions at [email protected] and can clarify the residency question.

Since you don't file the petition with consulate it is not really a DCF. Once the local USCIS office has approved the form (apparently in as little as 2 days) they forward on the Consulate for scheduling of interview and the host of other forms you have to complete.

I am not an expert at this process, but I was involved with a friend of mine's effort just a few months ago that took less then 3 months from application at the USCIS office to his wife receiving the visa. They had registered their marriage in Thailand the day before applying.

TH

Wow ! Can you tell me how long your friend had been living in Thailand before the application?

Thanks

[thaihome]

Close to 3 years. working on full expat package for large US company.

Th

[KozureOkami]

Why can't you just get a tourist Visa and get married later? Or is that somehow frowned upon?

I personally know someone who has a Thai ole lady and she just scored a 10 year B1/B2 visa to the US and they are not even officially married.

It's not frowned upon it's illegal. A ten year B1/B2 doesn't mean she can stay for 10 years. It means, if it is multiple entry, she can enter the US as a tourist for multiple stays of what usually is limited to 6 months. Intent is important. If the inspector determines her intent is to live in the US, she won't be admitted on that visa because the visa is for tourism.