Thai Buddist Magic/voodoo

[Shola]

Ok, Now let me start by saying I am not a religious person, but am married to a Thai guy so I take part in alot of celebrations at temples and often 'wai' to the shrines when with my hubby ect..

Now I know that Thai's generally believe in magic/voodoo and it often involves some type of praying at shrines or giving to temples/monks.

My hubby is no exeption, lately our finances are, well they're crap! but my hubby has been talking to a voodoo guy (my phrase,-actually he is respectfully called a doctor in Thai) and this guy has said he can do just about anything, posses people with spirits, pick winning lottery numbers, love spells, and even kill people by strong spells if he wanted.

Now I'm not really into all this and have been having a few disagreements with hubby on the subject. He says many farang have seen strange/magical things when going to these type of people, he's given me few examples, like farang seeing these doctor/voodoo guys to find the body of a loved one lost in the Tsunami etc...

My hubby said to me 'If you want him to prove it he can bend/twist someones mouth without touching them and they'll be like that forever' well as much as I have my doubts I'm hardly going to risk someones face like that am I?

So any farang here had a genuine experience, by a monk, voodoo guy ect..

And what is your take on this stuff? I personally find it hard to swallow.

(P.S Did not win the lottery today as was suggested we would! but then I never expected to!)

[Dradam]

Thai people really believe in voodoo and many of them have seen very strong examples of it.

Some stories they have told me are pretty creepy and I don't think I would get involved in that if I were you. It certainly will not benefit you. If it did all of the voodoo doctors would be lottery winners instead of living in shacks and feeding off the superstitions of the poor people.

Possessions and summoning dead spirits is not something that should be performed by any sane person. Whether you believe in it or not, the results of tampering in this area or not good.

[Shola]

Thai people really believe in voodoo and many of them have seen very strong examples of it.

Some stories they have told me are pretty creepy and I don't think I would get involved in that if I were you.  It certainly will not benefit you.  If it did all of the voodoo doctors would be lottery winners instead of living in shacks and feeding off the superstitions of the poor people.

Possessions and summoning dead spirits is not something that should be performed by any sane person.  Whether you believe in it or not, the results of tampering in this area or not good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those are pretty much my sentiments too, thing is this guy is well off, and HAS won the lottery a few times, he's been know by my hubbys family for about 30 years.

I would like to hear from anyone who has seen this magic for themselves, I have been given the oppertunity but I just prefer to keep right out of it.

In his 'bag of tricks' he carries a mummified hand, a mummified babies hand, a pot of 'magic' lip balm and variouse other trinkets....

[sajal]

PS: i am not a religious guy....dont feel offended if anyone doesnt agree with my point of view, i dont intend to hurt any religious sentiments here.

there was a show in discovery about hindu sadhus(doctors for thai??) in india.

it was hosted by a group of sceptics, they dressed up as sadhus and did their magic thing and the spectators were amazed....they thought these ppl were real sadhus and even managed to collect abt US$5(which was later returned) frm a willage family to ward of evil spirits. all with a combination of chemistry, good acting, good training of magic and some knowledge of religion.....

nice act....

thats what all these ppl are.

they just tell you what you want to hear rather than what you need to hear....

id personaly stay as far as possible from these 'doctors'....superstitions are something which have been created by these ppl to take advantage of the comon ppl....

like you go to not so financially well to do person, you tell him you can make him rich and so onn.....good eye contact and body language.... the result, you can make him do anything you want as all he sees is the money...

You may call them sadhus/fakirs in india, doctors in thailand....and the nigerian spam(http://www.expertlaw.com/library/pubarticles/Consumer_Protection/spam_email_fraud2.html) in this new electronic age where superstitions are fading off...... all are exactly the same bull $h1t...

PS: If something is too good to be true, that means it is not.

[Suthep_Steve]

I haven't been to any Thai related rituals / magic / Buddhist. But I have been to quite a few from other forms of Buddhism.

Why do I go?

The answer is complex but I think one of the main reasons is that it gives me the confidence to be a better person. So in one sense it's a confidence trick. The reasoning goes I've had this initiation therefore I must be a better person, therefore I behave in a better way.

I think we can also do the same for other people. We have a lot of pre concieved notions about people and how they will behave. We expect people to behave in certain ways because of who we think they are, what they look like or where they come from. Therefore we think that Bar Girls will behave one way no matter who or where they are and fat american tourists will behave another way because that's what they are.

If we give that person some space and say impute on them warm sensitive kind and generous person. Then we give them the mental space to be that person, it doesn't always work but then again if your fighting someones self image then you have an uphill struggle but it works more times than it fails.

Of course voodoo, religions etc. use confidence tricks but don't think that Western scientific society doesn't. What is advertising and all those graduation ceremonies. It's all a confidence trick to make you think that you are buying or have done something meaningful.

Then there is the media another form of voodoo, this is the way the world is because a small box in the corner of your rooms tells you so, that's real magic who would have thought we could be so dumb?

[sajal]

i tend to agree with steve....all this is just build confidance...if a rough says u to donate some bucks and your life will be successfull....u buy that make the donation...feel confident....probably turn up successful....but we need to think with our head now....

the same is true for most of the slimming products....

[camerata]

My hubby said to me 'If you want him to prove it he can bend/twist someones mouth without touching them and they'll be like that forever'  well as much as I have my doubts I'm hardly going to risk someones face like that am I?

So any farang here had a genuine experience, by a monk, voodoo guy ect..

And what is your take on this stuff? I personally find it hard to swallow.

Try reading Carl Sagan's book, The Demon-haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark, in which he uses science to give plausible explanations for everything from UFOs to fairies to lottery predictions.

In the case of winning lottery numbers and other predictions, people have a well-known tendency to ignore/forget the failures and remember the successes. So if someone often picks wrong numbers, no one notices much, but if they subsequently pick several winners, everyone remembers. So, statistically the right guesses are not significant compared to the total number of guesses - they just seem to be.

As for twisting someone's mouth, I guess pure suggestion (or auto-suggestion)could do it if the victim was very superstitious and really believed it possible. After all, in the 70s we had the "shrinking bird disease" that swept through SE Asia, and it was nothing more than mass hysteria. Spells causing a twisted mouth could also be a rural myth caused by genuine cases of Bell's Palsy that were subsequently attributed to a voodoo guy.

Sagan kept an open mind though. He said one phenomena worth investigating (because there was no plausible explanation as yet) was that in Asia some very young kids describe experiences from previous lives. When I mentioned this to my (Thai) GF she told me that at 3 years old her daughter had announced that she had lived in England in a previous life and could describe some experiences there. And even though she went to a Thai school, she was able to speak fluent English when she was 6.

[Abandon]

I loved all of Sagans stuff. I read Cosmos several times, and it's still largely relevant today. As are his older books.

I should say though that, as you do attest to, he was not purely science against religion. It seemed to me that much of his search was for God, which he never discounted. He would talk about this frequently. It's just that with his logical mind, he was searching through the medium of science, and not faith. In many ways he was highly spiritual in his searching. And always in the open spirit of knowing he did not have the answers, and with an open mind. I think the world lost a great man too early with him.

[Suthep_Steve]

I always thought that most science is very floored from a buddhist point of view. From a Buddhist perspective if you have a scientific mind and strong faith in science the world you project will be scientific. Therefore all you will keep 'proving' with your enquiries and experiments is that the world you are projecting is a scientific one.

If you have a magical mind and strong faith in magic you will live in a magical world.

If you could choose which would you pick?

Most science is based on the strange idea that there are objects, laws and facts out there waiting to be discovered. Buddhism rejects that point of view in my humble opinion.

[Shola]

Try reading Carl Sagan's book, The Demon-haunted World - Science as a Candle in the Dark, in which he uses science to give plausible explanations for everything from UFOs to fairies to lottery predictions.

In the case of winning lottery numbers and other predictions, people have a well-known tendency to ignore/forget the failures and remember the successes. So if someone often picks wrong numbers, no one notices much, but if they subsequently pick several winners, everyone remembers. So, statistically the right guesses are not significant compared to the total number of guesses - they just seem to be.

As for twisting someone's mouth, I guess pure suggestion (or auto-suggestion)could do it if the victim was very superstitious and really believed it possible. After all, in the 70s we had the "shrinking bird disease" that swept through SE Asia, and it was nothing more than mass hysteria. Spells causing a twisted mouth could also be a rural myth caused by genuine cases of Bell's Palsy that were subsequently attributed to a voodoo guy.

Sagan kept an open mind though. He said one phenomena worth investigating (because there was no plausible explanation as yet) was that in Asia some very young kids describe experiences from previous lives. When I mentioned this to my (Thai) GF she told me that at 3 years old her daughter had announced that she had lived in England in a previous life and could describe some experiences there. And even though she went to a Thai school, she was able to speak fluent English when she was 6.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah gotta agree with you on all that there Camerata, belief is a very powerfull thing, and I think certain 'magic' accounts could well be due to a psychosomatic responce by the believer.

In some ways perhaps it's a good thing. I know it gives my hubby a sense of control of perhaps the uncontrolable, and also hope.

Sometimes I wish I did believe in this kind of thing but my brain just sways to the scientific side of things.

I'll definatly look out for that book though, sounds interesting

[lampard10]

My father-in-law came to look after the house while we were in England. After a while he fell ill,and no-one knew what was wrong with him. As his condition deteriorated a monk was called in and straight away he said he knew the problem. The outside kitchen was in the wrong place. Mum-in-law demolished the offending cookery and two days later pa-in-law was right as rain. You explain it.

[Abandon]

The food was bad! New clean kitchen and voila!

[Shola]

Just to tell you of my 'experience' yesterday! Coincidence or Voodoo? you decide!

I mentioned in my OP that hubby has an affection for 'magic/voodoo' etc, well it seems he spent alot of cash on 'magic' candles, 1000B each, burned every dusk or dawn bring good luck etc............

A week ago I lost my really nice jade pendant in a taxi, had written it off(like I'm gonna get that back!)................

Yesterday while sitting drinking coffee with my friend I was wingeing that my hubby had spent so much $ on these candles, when right at that moment the phone rang, it was my hubby saying that the taxi driver that dropped me off last week had returned with my pendant! A first ever for LOS that I've ever heard!

He then attributed the luck to the 'magic' candles...........

THEN later than evening me and my friend ate outside at a Burger king, before leaving I left my mobile phone on the table, didn't realise I didn't have it untill about an hour later at home, in my mind, wrote it off, but called it anyway, a girl answered from Burger King, I'll be collecting it later today!

Now I'm by no means 'converted' but a nice little story of idiosynchracy I think!

[meadish_sweetball]

Just to tell you of my 'experience' yesterday! Coincidence or Voodoo? you decide!

I mentioned in my OP that hubby has an affection for 'magic/voodoo' etc, well it seems he spent alot of cash on 'magic' candles, 1000B each, burned every dusk or dawn bring good luck etc............

  A week ago I lost my really nice jade pendant in a taxi, had written it off(like I'm gonna get that back!)................

Yesterday while sitting drinking coffee with my friend I was wingeing that my hubby had spent so much $ on these candles, when right at that moment the phone rang, it was my hubby saying that the taxi driver that dropped me off last week had returned with my pendant! A first ever for LOS that I've ever heard!

He then attributed the luck to the 'magic' candles...........

THEN later than evening me and my friend ate outside at a Burger king, before leaving I left my mobile phone on the table, didn't realise I didn't have it untill about an hour later at home, in my mind, wrote it off, but called it anyway, a girl answered from Burger King, I'll be collecting it later today!

Now I'm by no means 'converted' but a nice little story of idiosynchracy I think!

Even without magic candles, I have quite a few stories of Thai people returning lost belongings to the owner. Nice story though. If it gives yur hubby confidence I would just let it slide. As a comparison, my girlfriend spends thousands of baht on skin care products which serve a similar purpose. (She looks great anyway, but she needs those creams to feel better about herself, so I dont stop her - that way I can buy my "very necessary" external hard drives and mp3 players without hearing any complaints...) ;-)

[Shola]

Just to tell you of my 'experience' yesterday! Coincidence or Voodoo? you decide!

I mentioned in my OP that hubby has an affection for 'magic/voodoo' etc, well it seems he spent alot of cash on 'magic' candles, 1000B each, burned every dusk or dawn bring good luck etc............

  A week ago I lost my really nice jade pendant in a taxi, had written it off(like I'm gonna get that back!)................

Yesterday while sitting drinking coffee with my friend I was wingeing that my hubby had spent so much $ on these candles, when right at that moment the phone rang, it was my hubby saying that the taxi driver that dropped me off last week had returned with my pendant! A first ever for LOS that I've ever heard!

He then attributed the luck to the 'magic' candles...........

THEN later than evening me and my friend ate outside at a Burger king, before leaving I left my mobile phone on the table, didn't realise I didn't have it untill about an hour later at home, in my mind, wrote it off, but called it anyway, a girl answered from Burger King, I'll be collecting it later today!

Now I'm by no means 'converted' but a nice little story of idiosynchracy I think!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even without magic candles, I have quite a few stories of Thai people returning lost belongings to the owner. Nice story though. If it gives yur hubby confidence I would just let it slide. As a comparison, my girlfriend spends thousands of baht on skin care products which serve a similar purpose. (She looks great anyway, but she needs those creams to feel better about herself, so I dont stop her - that way I can buy my "very necessary" external hard drives and mp3 players without hearing any complaints...) ;-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My sentiments exactly Meadish, although have not heard a great many tales of taxi drivers returning left belongings, I was pleasantly surprized by that!

[lampard10]

Just to tell you of my 'experience' yesterday! Coincidence or Voodoo? you decide!

I mentioned in my OP that hubby has an affection for 'magic/voodoo' etc, well it seems he spent alot of cash on 'magic' candles, 1000B each, burned every dusk or dawn bring good luck etc............

  A week ago I lost my really nice jade pendant in a taxi, had written it off(like I'm gonna get that back!)................

Yesterday while sitting drinking coffee with my friend I was wingeing that my hubby had spent so much $ on these candles, when right at that moment the phone rang, it was my hubby saying that the taxi driver that dropped me off last week had returned with my pendant! A first ever for LOS that I've ever heard!

He then attributed the luck to the 'magic' candles...........

THEN later than evening me and my friend ate outside at a Burger king, before leaving I left my mobile phone on the table, didn't realise I didn't have it untill about an hour later at home, in my mind, wrote it off, but called it anyway, a girl answered from Burger King, I'll be collecting it later today!

Now I'm by no means 'converted' but a nice little story of idiosynchracy I think!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to disappoint you but that has nothing at all to do with black magic. It has to do with how honest the basic Thai person is. If that had happened in Ramsgate, someone would have called,whinging it wasn't a top of the range model

[Shola]

O.T for a sec but, Lamp10 it's so wierd theres actually a place in LOS called Ramsgate?

I used to live in a town in Engers by the same name, complete sh1t hole if I say so myself, I think thats the reason I moved 3000 miles away from the place!

Eerie wierdness!!

P.S Have lost stuff in taxi's before, never returned, so it was kind of out of the ordinary........Enter twilight zone music.........

[Darknight]

I've experienced many things that a basic westerner would write off as a coincidence and a thai would write off as phii.

There's more then the realm of basic reality out there.

Wether you experience this or not is linked to your own mindset "or set mind"

Your Focus determines your reality.

Sagan kept an open mind though. He said one phenomena worth investigating (because there was no plausible explanation as yet) was that in Asia some very young kids describe experiences from previous lives. When I mentioned this to my (Thai) GF she told me that at 3 years old her daughter had announced that she had lived in England in a previous life and could describe some experiences there. And even though she went to a Thai school, she was able to speak fluent English when she was 6.

Funny i've have this the other way round , but i can't speak thai

[khunlungphudhu]

A few years after my first wife died I was able to return and visit her mother, my wife having died in England.

While there, mother in law kept on about visiting the 'spirit doctor', and I finally agreed, my not being commited spirtually or religously, and so the whole family loaded up into a couple of songtaews and off we went.

The medium was a middle aged woman and fairly average, and nothing would discern her from the average Thai woman in any way, but at the start of the seance she donned red robes and a turban, sat down, with us all around, and smoked a pipe for about ten minutes. A little conversation with a few of the elders, then seemingly went into a trance for about another ten minutes. No chanting, no incantations, by external view, just meditating.

When she came out of it she looked at me and said something about how happy we had been together, she also mentioned a couple of things that I will not go into here that I am positive none of the family could have known about. Then she told the old lady not to worry, but my wife was now very happy where she was and should not be disturbed again as she had a new life to live.

Apart from the few facts she mentioned, it was all pretty standard stuff, nothing anyway remarkable,but those bits of knowledge did shake me.

At the end of the day I was glad we had gone simply because the old lady was now happy, and had come to terms with her daughter's death.

Make of it what you will, I beleive, even after twenty years, it was worth doing.

[moses]

Hi There

Sitting at my job under "stress" therefore I havent had time to read all the post in the forum but I thought i'd leave a short comment to the voodo/magic stuff anyway. I dont believe in it but, in my opinion it's evil - who want to hurt somebody else by doing some stupid rituals? What's in the hearts of these men and women? I think that what ever it is they do it comes from the pit of ######.

I'd stay far away from it

moses

[LivinLOS]

I am a total sceptic and firmly believe(d) all this was hocum and for those of a superstitious and, quite honestly, weak mind.. My Dad is hyper superstitious in the gypsey / romany kind of this is good and this brings bad luck but not really black magic.

Then I met my 1st Thai wife, fell very very heavily for her and lived together insanely happily with both of us being devoted to each other in a way that 99.9% of couples never are, total love at first sight and never looked at another woman while with her.

She believed strongly in this (as did some of her friends who spent money on spells and consultations)... One day I was winding her up and joking about how she said of a girl that had cast a love spell on someone etc, I was saying anything like this only worked on those that were stupid enough to believe it and to be honest mocking her a little, when she replied "Well it worked on you didnt it" that kinda shut me up...

Anyway in late 2003 she became ill and Doctors were not doing much good, she was told that someone had died in the house and wanted to see a particular witch doc on the North of the Island.. To humour her we went up there and met this strange fat little gay guy with his tiny effeminate house boy (definate dom / sub thing happening).. I had been reluctant to go and made it clear that if he was going to perform a reading to give no hints etc (I knew a guy who used to run a Gypsy Rosa Lee type fortune stall and he was quite simply great at performing 'cold readings and bullshitting.. 90% of the time people tell you want they want you to tell them)..

Anyway he knew immediately that I was not ready to be pursuaded and insisted that I not be present while they performed the reading / whatever.. They go out back for an hour or so and when Kim came back she was going on about how this guy says there was a ghost needing exhorcism etc (surprise surprise).. Again totally skeptic on my part..

Day or two later the guy comes to the house, walks around and then has a 'turn' on the stairs and faints, puts on a palaver.. After this some pigs blood was used to write some things on the stops half way up our stairs. Again he states there was a violent death at that spot and spirits that were not at rest (this is not true but he obviously gleaned it from my girl and played it to the hilt)..

He told my girl we had to move house.. If we didnt he said she would be dead in 6 months. She died 5.5 months later.

What can you say ?? What can you think ??

[deathwalker]

hi i am new here... my name is khoo...

i really need sum help on breaking a love spell....

it happen to my girlfriend, we had been in love deep and we never be parted for so long,

and now there's this guy taht just came back from thailand has been goin out wit her, and she has not been seeing me for round 2 months,

and she's been acting weird since then, she's been msg me saying she love this guy alot but after a few while she loves me back.....

is been very very weird...... just a few hours back she likes the guy and wanted him to be her bf, but after a few while she msg me again saying she dun have any feelings with this guy again and wanted to be with me again....

she started to scare of me and avoiding from me, i never done anything to scared her, i mean even wen we are together while holding her hands i also ask for permissions....

she admit herself has been weird lately and admit herself is under sum spells...... i am really worried bout her.....

PLEASE!!! anyone with knowledge on how to stop this please let me know.....

really will be very very thankfull if anyone could help in this method...

[camerata]

Nice try, but April Fools was two days ago...

[deathwalker]

i am not man...

it really happened, i am so frus~~ and panic here....

not joking.....

Edited April 3, 2006 by deathwalker

[Kido]

If the spells works, How come Thaksin still alive today?

I saw on the T.V people were casting spell on him .

Edited April 14, 2006 by Kido

[ColPyat]

When i got my first Thai tattoo about 13 years ago, and didn't know anything, a monk came out with a nice old sword. I though it was a bit strange that the bloke shows me a sword. The next thing i know is that he hit me right across the back, then put the edge on the side of my back where i was able to see it, and slashed right through. It felt as if it cut right through, hurt like hel_l. The only thing though was a two red welts where the sword hit.

The next tattoos i got i made sure that it was only charms that don't need to be tested for efficiency with a sword.

And nops, i will not have it tested again, i definately have broken some of the rules, and got stabbed some time afterwards, and slashed as well, and it did bleed. And i will also not have it "reloaded" - it might work, but i don't feel like having a heartattack from having it tested again. It might not have cut me when i was tested, but the pain was definately there, and very intense.

[sabaijai]

When i got my first Thai tattoo about 13 years ago, and didn't know anything, a monk came out with a nice old sword. I though it was a bit strange that the bloke shows me a sword. The next thing i know is that he hit me right across the back, then put the edge on the side of my back where i was able to see it, and slashed right through. It felt as if it cut right through, hurt like hel_l. The only thing though was a two red welts where the sword hit.

The next tattoos i got i made sure that it was only charms that don't need to be tested for efficiency with a sword.

And nops, i will not have it tested again, i definately have broken some of the rules, and got stabbed some time afterwards, and slashed as well, and it did bleed. And i will also not have it "reloaded" - it might work, but i don't feel like having a heartattack from having it tested again. It might not have cut me when i was tested, but the pain was definately there, and very intense.

Where did you get the tattoo?

[ColPyat]

Where did you get the tattoo?

The first one i got at Wat Bang Pa, before it became tattoo central for western tourists. Nowadays i go to a lesser known master.

Many younger Thai friends of mine are rather envious because i still did the wai kru ceremony with Luang Por Poen himself.

The testing was actually done in a different temple, by the monk who referred me to Wat Bang Pa.

[thaibebop]

Where did you get the tattoo?

The first one i got at Wat Bang Pa, before it became tattoo central for western tourists. Nowadays i go to a lesser known master.

Many younger Thai friends of mine are rather envious because i still did the wai kru ceremony with Luang Por Poen himself.

The testing was actually done in a different temple, by the monk who referred me to Wat Bang Pa.

I would to learn more about Thai Buddist tattoos. Are there different ceremonies for different tattoos? What kinds are there and do all have meaning? Is the place they are put in the body important? Sorry for all the questions. If this needs to be made it's own thread that's okay.

[ColPyat]

I would to learn more about Thai Buddist tattoos. Are there different ceremonies for different tattoos? What kinds are there and do all have meaning? Is the place they are put in the body important? Sorry for all the questions. If this needs to be made it's own thread that's okay.

I don't know enough to answer all those questions properly.

But yes, they all have different meanings. Simple charms, protections against all sort of things, aggressive tattoos, and black magic that only very few masters dare to touch.

The body parts are important. As far as i know, charms and defensive tattoos are mostly put on the upper body, while agresseive tattoos are generally put on the lower body. Monks generally only do defensive tattoos, while lay teachers do whatever they see fit.

The power of the tattoo is not the tattoo itself, but the tattoo has to be activated with spell as well in a short ceremony after the tattoo is finished. Many tattoos have different strengths. Charms are generally very unproblematic, not too many rules have to be observed. Considered very strong and potentially harmful for the carrier is for example the Hanuman tattoo, there even alcohol should be avoided as it could activate the tattoo to the extent that the carrier falls in a mad sort of trance. One very interesting tattoo is a dragon on the lower arm, it is considered so strong that only very few teachers dare to do it.

There are other things as well, such as "Fang Muc", in which small glass, or metal parts are embedded under the skin. I think Luang Por Khun puts small silver balls under the skin of the arms of people as protection.

Quite popular are the ones under the foreskin of the penis (and some do here far more weird mutilations of the penis in order to enhance sexual power).

Anyhow, rather intersting, but unfortunately nowadays a tourist and media circus is the yearly big Wai Kru ceremony at Wat Bang Pa, in which the disciples of the now deceased Luang Por Poen gather en masse, and sort of fall into mass trance, the power of their tattoos taking over. Pretty wild stuff.

Every tattoo teacher has a yearly "Wai Kru" ceremony day.

The whole thing may not really have much to do with what many people consider "real buddhism", it nevertheless is a fascinating aspect of the culture here.