What To Grow

[Jeff1]

Ok , we have learned that rubber trees will take a long time to produce a sellable product . and palm trees are fickle . My question is .. What can I ( we ) grow , raise that will make the most amount of baht in the shortest amount of time and of course with the smallest investment . Lets say with 15 rie in Isaan .

all input welcome

thank you ,

Jeff

[ajahnlau]

Kow=rice

[roiet]

Ok , we have learned that rubber trees will take a long time to produce a sellable product . and palm trees are fickle . My question is .. What can I ( we ) grow , raise that will make the most amount of baht in the shortest amount of time and of course with the smallest investment . Lets say with 15 rie in Isaan .

all input welcome

thank you ,

Jeff

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you have some farming experience ?? Here its a bit different. The soil is not fertile at all and initial investment could dissapoint you. Your wife or family in law could pass some investment experience.

[pnustedt]

My question is .. What can I ( we ) grow , raise that will make the most amount of baht in the shortest amount of time and of course with the smallest investment . Lets say with 15 rie in Isaan .

all input welcome

Chillies, peppers, spring onions, shallots, marrows, melons, cucumbers, tomatoes, bananas, papaya, aubergines, mangoes (longer term). We grow them all in Sisaket - have plenty of water.

[devildog683]

rice

[ozzydom]

Have you thought about feedlot cattle ,my mate is doing this with Charolaise in the Roi-et area,there is an association locally which buys and processes these cattle for the top-end market.current return (gross) is 120 baht per kilo live weight. His first sales due june but growth rates very encouraging. Will post more when cost/return figures available .

[ozzydom]

In looking at agricultural production it must be remembered that the bulk of thais are subsistance farmers ,they sell what they dont need for their own consumption. this keeps commodity prices low by our standards.The temptation is always there to over capitalise eq. (pension off the buffalo and kubota and buy a 4wd tractor) .

Better farm practises is the way to go,Isaan currently produces about 1.9 tonne per hectare of aromatic rice, Vietnam is producing up to 12 tonne per hectare .

The reasons are many fold ,but the answers can be found in official govt websites but it mainly comes down to farming practises.(have your ever tried to tell a thai how to do something,they dont even listen to their own experts in their fields)

[Jeff1]

Jeff

Do you have some farming experience ?? Here its a bit different. The soil is not fertile at all and initial investment could dissapoint you. Your wife or family in law could pass some investment experience.

No , not much experience . I would have my wifes family and others in the village if needed to help . They really dont do much anyway . They travel around and work other peoples crops when there ready to be picked. So I think I could put them to good use at times . They also have some cattle of their own ( from the dowery that we never got back ) They say its alot of work . Also they have to worry about them getting sick . I guess I would have to worry about crop failure also .

We have two votes for rice . I remember reading here something about growing rice but can not find it . If I remember corectly it was something like 43,000 bt. a year profit with that size lot . I am probally wrong . But for that I would be better off without the bother . I not looking to get rich here I know that will NOT happen but I would like something better than that ..if theres any . Still , im open to all suggestions .

[Gary A]

I recently looked at 11 rai. The farmer who farms it said that they got 60 bags of rice off it last year. A bag is 100 kilograms and it sells for about 1000 baht per bag. The farmer gets half. I didn't get into seed or fertilizer expense so I'm not sure how that works.

[Jeff1]

I recently looked at 11 rai. The farmer who farms it said that they got 60 bags of rice off it last year. A bag is 100 kilograms and it sells for about 1000 baht per bag. The farmer gets half. I didn't get into seed or fertilizer expense so I'm not sure how that works.

Thanks Gary , thats 60 bags a year ?

[pnustedt]

Bear in mind if considering rice farming that in most parts of Isaan there is normally just one harvest/year. In other regions and countries incl. Vietnam there are 2 or 3.

[Gary A]

Once a year but the farmer did say that if there was a decent size pond put in he was sure he could get a second crop.

I recently looked at 11 rai. The farmer who farms it said that they got 60 bags of rice off it last year. A bag is 100 kilograms and it sells for about 1000 baht per bag. The farmer gets half. I didn't get into seed or fertilizer expense so I'm not sure how that works.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Gary , thats 60 bags a year ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[aletta]

Jeff

Just got back from the Central Plains and even there 800 kg of rice per rai is standard.Thats about 8000 baht per rai before costs of labour and fertiliser and tractor etc.

I think the way to go is organic if you can find markets.

[ozzydom]

For an interesting article on rice growing in Thailand have a look at

http://www.therice.org/rice/bus/area/html

[surin]

In looking at agricultural production it must be remembered that the bulk of thais are subsistance farmers ,they sell what they dont need for their own consumption. this keeps commodity prices low by our standards.The temptation is always there to over capitalise eq. (pension off the buffalo and kubota and buy a 4wd tractor) .

Better farm practises is the way to go,Isaan currently produces about 1.9 tonne per hectare of aromatic rice, Vietnam is producing up to 12 tonne per hectare .

The reasons are many fold ,but the answers can be found in official govt websites but it mainly comes down to farming practises.(have your ever tried to tell a thai how to do something,they dont even listen to their own experts in their fields)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vietnam has more than 1 crop annually....that is possibly the reason behind the yield.

[surin]

My wife is growing almost anything in Surin. She has the best crop of corn you could imagine right now, watermelon, cucumbers, chili, patboong, tomatoes.

The important thing is being able to water...fortunately we are drought proof with a huge dam that takes up 2/3rds of the property and a real good bore at 38 meters. I have rigged it all up for irrigation so it is not labour intensive and the dam is full of taptim fish.

There are more than 400 mango and citrus fruit and a variety of other trees around the dam and fenceline...each base of the tree has some type of pumpkin or melon growing from any residual moisture after watering the trees daily...The trees did not have a dry season andI think we have advanced them several years in 1.....Most things can grow with the Isaan heat, it's just a matter of water.

[ozzydom]

In looking at agricultural production it must be remembered that the bulk of thais are subsistance farmers ,they sell what they dont need for their own consumption. this keeps commodity prices low by our standards.The temptation is always there to over capitalise eq. (pension off the buffalo and kubota and buy a 4wd tractor) .

Better farm practises is the way to go,Isaan currently produces about 1.9 tonne per hectare of aromatic rice, Vietnam is producing up to 12 tonne per hectare .

The reasons are many fold ,but the answers can be found in official govt websites but it mainly comes down to farming practises.(have your ever tried to tell a thai how to do something,they dont even listen to their own experts in their fields)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Vietnam has more than 1 crop annually....that is possibly the reason behind the yield.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your probably right surin, we didnt grow rice on Chevron Island

[ozzydom]

My wife is growing almost anything in Surin.  She has the best crop of corn you could imagine right now, watermelon, cucumbers, chili, patboong, tomatoes.

The important thing is being able to water...fortunately we are drought proof with a huge dam that takes up 2/3rds of the property and a real good bore at 38 meters.  I have rigged it all up for irrigation so it is not labour intensive and the dam is full of taptim fish.

There are more than 400 mango and citrus fruit and a variety of other trees around the dam and fenceline...each base of the tree has some type of pumpkin or melon growing from any residual moisture after watering the trees daily...The trees did not have a dry season andI think we have advanced them several years in 1.....Most things can grow with the Isaan heat, it's just a matter of water.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have some Queensland blue and butternuts going well here if your interested in some seed later surin .....

[Thaicoon]

I recently looked at 11 rai. The farmer who farms it said that they got 60 bags of rice off it last year. A bag is 100 kilograms and it sells for about 1000 baht per bag. The farmer gets half. I didn't get into seed or fertilizer expense so I'm not sure how that works.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The bags are about 85 kilos, the normal procedure is that the farmer works on a 60, 40% basis, the 60% going to the farmer, the rice crop all depends on how much water you have etc, that is good 60 bags for 11 Rai, my wife and i have 85 rai of rice land in buriram, we had a great harvest last year, ;lets hope 2005 will be better.

[RamdomChances]

Peanuts are pretty good, the guy accross the road recons he can make 7000 bht a rai profit at the right time of year but it irrigated land so he grows all year(every 3 months). We are just about to plant 10 rai, which we hope to have irrigated by the end of the rainy season and the rest (about 50 rai)going over to forage sorghram for the cows. Here's a rough idea on the profits from some crops :-

Maize 2000 bht a rai (can grow once a year if not irrigated 3 months growing time)

Sugar Cain up 3000 bhat/rai (1 crop a year, 1 year growing time needs replanting every 4 years. Good if you have a lot of land as it takes very little looking after)

Sun Flower 1000 bhat/rai (gows in after the main harvest and as it needs very little water)

Sorghram (sp?) (the same as sunflower)

Grass (pangular) (Usually grown in old rice fields as animal feed can be very profitable 6-9000 bhat/rai every 45 days needs loads of water and lots of capital investment, cutting and bailing machines and a lot of labour. Usually done around here as a co-op)

Forage Sorghram(yaa jumbo) animal food grows to about 2 meters high and will just re-grow when cut as lond as there is water, little comercial use unless you have a loy of livestock

Others we get here that I dont really know much about Soya (probably simular to peanuts) cotton, taro (grown in poor sandy soil thats not much good for anything else.

I did'nt think rice was as profitable as has been mentioned here (been told about 3000 bhat/rai/crop) but we are'nt really in a rice growing area so dont know that much about it

[surin]

My wife is growing almost anything in Surin.  She has the best crop of corn you could imagine right now, watermelon, cucumbers, chili, patboong, tomatoes.

The important thing is being able to water...fortunately we are drought proof with a huge dam that takes up 2/3rds of the property and a real good bore at 38 meters.  I have rigged it all up for irrigation so it is not labour intensive and the dam is full of taptim fish.

There are more than 400 mango and citrus fruit and a variety of other trees around the dam and fenceline...each base of the tree has some type of pumpkin or melon growing from any residual moisture after watering the trees daily...The trees did not have a dry season andI think we have advanced them several years in 1.....Most things can grow with the Isaan heat, it's just a matter of water.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have some Queensland blue and butternuts going well here if your interested in some seed later surin .....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Oz....I'll have to buy some more boody land now

[RamdomChances]

Grass (pangular) (Usually grown in old rice fields as animal feed can be very profitable 6-9000 bhat/rai every 45 days needs loads of water and lots of capital investment, cutting and bailing machines and a lot of labour. Usually done around here as a co-op)

Had a PM from Jeff asking about the grass so I thought I'd post the reply here as that paragraph is misleading. The 6-9000 bhat is NOT profit in this case, to elabourate.

Pangular grass is a fast growing high protien grass (around 9%). We used to buy it for the cows and sell it localy as well to cover the collection costs (we dont anymore as its too expensive).

Its grown a lot around the Chinat/Supan areas in old rice paddies, grwn for about 45 days then cut bailed and sold. The paddies are then flooded and the cycle repeats. The fig comes from an estimated 200 - 300 bails a rai selling at 30 bhat a bail (used to be 17 before I stoped selling it) anyway that works out to 6000-9000 bhat. Both places that I know that grow it are co-ops who share the labour (all help each other) and the machinery is provided on loan from the goverment, which enables them to keep their costs down. the place in Chinat has about 600 rai and supan about 200 with individual farms participating owning as little as 10 rai. If you were to do it as an individual farm the start up costs are high Large tractor about 500,000 second hand, bailer 500,000, cutter 2-400,000 more tractors for taking the bails off the fields and lots of labour (when we used to collect it it would not be unusual for about 15 people working a field at a time).

At lot was sent over to the large dairy and beef farms over in Korat, we were by no means the biggest buyer and we were buying 350 bails every 2 days (it does not keep so it has to be delivered fresh. At one point I was selling 200 bails every 2 days and my cows eating the rest,

So there is good profit to be made from it but the start up costs, labour and markets would need to be carefuly looked at.

Cheers RC

[Jeff1]

I'll say it before Dr. Pat does " Seemed a good idea at the time "

Ok , back to the original question....

[aletta]

Jeff i'm afraid people have been thinking for decades what to grow in Isaan.

Need to think what grows well in other hot climates.

[scheggs]

Once a year but the farmer did say that if there was a decent size pond put in he was sure he could get a second crop.

I recently looked at 11 rai. The farmer who farms it said that they got 60 bags of rice off it last year. A bag is 100 kilograms and it sells for about 1000 baht per bag. The farmer gets half. I didn't get into seed or fertilizer expense so I'm not sure how that works.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Gary , thats 60 bags a year ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea he can get a second crop the problem is my Thai farmers in Isaan will not listen to proper tested and tryed methods, thats because their culture is they must listen to their elders who have only out of date expirience. I have 30 Rai I put in a 2 nd large dam , and then I got all sort excuses as to why they would not pump water.

I asked my wife to find out 2 things came out of this 1 . Lazy 2 must listen to the elders

[aletta]

The locals are resistant to change,it needs someone to show them the way and then the whole village will participate.

Around here they were unsure about tobacco and now evetyone grows it as a second crop.

[ray23]

The locals are resistant to change,it needs someone to show them the way and then the whole village will participate.

Around here they were unsure about tobacco and now evetyone grows it as a second crop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Feedlot cattle does sound very interesting but it also sounds very expensive, to get a start in.

I wonder what the costs would be to purchase say ten head, vet expences, feed expences, transprotation expenses and the what the potential return might be and how many years before you see that return. The beef I buy here in Udon comes from Khan Kean and is excellent I currently pay 290 baht a Kilo for serloin.

[RamdomChances]

The locals are resistant to change,it needs someone to show them the way and then the whole village will participate.

Around here they were unsure about tobacco and now evetyone grows it as a second crop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Feedlot cattle does sound very interesting but it also sounds very expensive, to get a start in.

I wonder what the costs would be to purchase say ten head, vet expences, feed expences, transprotation expenses and the what the potential return might be and how many years before you see that return. The beef I buy here in Udon comes from Khan Kean and is excellent I currently pay 290 baht a Kilo for serloin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a rule of thumb for the "thai" beef cattle expect to pay around 1000 bhat per months age up to around a year old than it goes on weight. So a 3 month calf would be around 3000 bhat ect (generaly). Vets bill for beef cattle are very cheap, you have to buy your own medicen though and the standered of vet here is very poor (I do most of our own stuff and only call a vet out when I dont know how to do something i.e subcutainious injections and putting a drip in ect). Saying that pure Bramin sperm will cost around 2000 bhat a shot but the seem to be pretty sucsessful.

There is a fair bit of charolias around now and that sells at a premium, but I've never had anything to do with it.

Transport costs are'nt a lot, when you are buying arrange transport in the cost or just use a pick-up, selling the same but often you will have an agent come and buy with a lorry.

The secret of feed lot is to get you feed right. Up to around 10 cattle its possible to graise them and just cut extra grass by hand over that you need to buy food. Bagged concentrate food is expensive 170-200 bhat a 30 kg bag and they would need to eat 4-6 kg a day on top of the forage. Alternativly you dont give the concentrate it just takes longer for them to bulk up. Normal rice straw has about the same food value as cardboard, its slow to digest, has few vitamines and only about 3% protine. We now give urea treated straw(fang mak) easier to digest and around 8-9% protine along with concentrate(you dont need this level of feed for beef). Peanut plants(just the plant not the nut) are excelent as well if you can get them, and the grass I mantioned earlier is very good if you can get it cheap enough.

We sell our old milkers for between 14 and 24,000 bhat depending on the size.

We used to sell grass to a beef farm that just bought in "scraggy" cows kept them for a few months to fatten then sold them, he appered pretty sucsessful with a few lorries and around 100 head.

[ozzydom]

The locals are resistant to change,it needs someone to show them the way and then the whole village will participate.

Around here they were unsure about tobacco and now evetyone grows it as a second crop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Feedlot cattle does sound very interesting but it also sounds very expensive, to get a start in.

I wonder what the costs would be to purchase say ten head, vet expences, feed expences, transprotation expenses and the what the potential return might be and how many years before you see that return. The beef I buy here in Udon comes from Khan Kean and is excellent I currently pay 290 baht a Kilo for serloin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ray, my ozzy mate is a member of the co-op feed-lotting charolaise ,he lives Roi-et but is on holiday in Oz until 20/5.I have a bit of knowledge of the op only because he runs things by me .

The processing factory and head office is in Sakhon Nakhon, all special feed is provided through the co-op(pineapple,mollasses chaff,meal mix) ,grass /rice hay grower supplies. They have an inspection team who visit and provide vet care,castrations etc and make the decision when animal at premium for slaughter, transport provided by processor,they prefer animal at approx 800kg l/w.price is set at about 120 bt live over scales. I will be Udon early next month ,maybe we can meet up and talk cows and motor bikes.

[RamdomChances]

ozzydom

Do they supply/sell the breeding stock? Do you have a name of the company?

Cheers RC