Sciatic Nerve Problems

[ThaiPauly]

I have been re-diagnosed by my doctors that I do not have problems with my hips but have a trapped Sciatic(not sure if I have spelt it correctly) Nerve.

This is giving me a whole world of pain and I am down the hospital on average 3 times a week for a Morphine Injection and then Morphine capsules to counter the intense pain.

They have not really come up with any decent answer as to how to cure the problem, they said it would be a good idea to have some Phsiotherapy (after I suggested it), but they are offering me no idea of a cure other than it will eventually untrap itself. My obvious worry is will it "Untrap Itself" before I become dependant on Morphine, although I never get any highs after administration of Injections or capsules.

Can anyone offer any advice. It would be gratefully received

Thank You in advance

[chuchok]

I've had heaps of problems with the sciatic nerve. the problem can be a tear/bulge in the disc. It presses up against the nerve. When you get it bad it is unbelievable.

there are loads of treatments available. There is an operation that "shaves" the part of the prolapsed disc that is touching the nerve. This sorts it almost 100%, but I wouldn't be having an operation like this in Thailand.

A good quick fix is a steroid injection. can last up to 3 weeks. The steroid (Prednisone..I think) will reduce the swelling. When the swelling is reduced it can sometimes help the body to heal.In this process it will also reduce pain,but there are a few side effects...mainly putting on weight.

Your average Doctor knows bugger all about these problems IMO.Then come orthopedic surgeons and then a spinal surgeon.

TP, I could write a book about the problems I’ve had in the past. I’ve also had some great advice from a guy who is purported to be the best Spinal surgeon in NZ.He told me that if I ever encounter more problems, I was to e-mail/fax the x-rays/scan to him before any procedure was to take place here in Thailand. He also said that many Doctors(western included) would go for an operation, when sometimes the operation could be worse than the orig problem…..

I'll PM my phone number to you if you want to talk further.

[Ajarn]

Tp, here is what I wrote in response to a similar question a last year...

When I first came here, I'd been a chronic sufferer of sciatica for many years, Chiros were encouraging, but I never got more than temporary relief. As soon as I got settled in Chiang Mai, I went to Rinkaew Povich Thai Massage. The first session of two hours relieved a lot of pain. The next day, I went back for two more hours. From that day forward, my sciatica has never returned. I think if you find a skilled practioner, they can really do some amazing things.

Thai Traditional Massage

Rinkaew Complex 274565-7

183/4 Wualai Rd.,

T. Hai Ya,

A. Muang,

Chiang Mai 50100

Fax: 202238

TP, maybe this is something to check out...

Also, there is an Indonesian guy named Hermanto who does accupuncture and accupressure in CM. He also has an electrical device that makes your muscles twitch, which did help my back relax a lot. Since much pain can come from muscle spasms associated with sciatica, maybe this might offer some relief, too.

Herman's number is 01-024-3851

Good luck... I sure remember that pain.

[chuchok]

That's great advise Ajarn, I might give this guy ago myself.In NZ,Chiros have helped me heaps in the past, as well as a chinese accupuncture bloke.

I would give a little warning though. Depending on exactly what the problem is...be carefull.i can't lift the toes on one of my feet,because some dumb prick at a very well known BKK hospital told me that I had a ligament problem and that phyisotherapy would help

[wilson steer]

Sciatica, slipped disc, back pain: I know: it is murder, absolutely the worst thing on earth. I had it for a whole year.

Some top tips;

1. Check your bed is hard and firm.

2. Drink loads of water (the discs need water and hate a dehydrated body)

3. Don't rest, be active, push yourself physically, but don't lift weights etc.

4. Consider accupuncture, it really helps with the pain, although it does not cure the original problem.

5. Avoid opiate analgesics, they are addictive, stick to NSAIDS with food and water.

6. Think about your posture when sitting, don't slouch.

7. massage helps.

8. Don't despair, it will cure itself given TIME. Do not opt for surgery unless 100% necessary. Believe me TIME is the healer with chronic back pain.

[chuchok]

Sciatica, slipped disc, back pain: I know: it is murder, absolutely the worst thing on earth. I had it for a whole year.

Some top tips;

1. Check your bed is hard and firm.

2. Drink loads of water (the discs need water and hate a dehydrated body)

3. Don't rest, be active, push yourself physically, but don't lift weights etc.

4. Consider accupuncture, it really helps with the pain, although it does not cure the original problem.

5. Avoid opiate analgesics, they are addictive, stick to NSAIDS with food and water.

6. Think about your posture when sitting, don't slouch.

7. massage helps.

8. Don't despair, it will cure itself given TIME. Do not opt for surgery unless 100% necessary. Believe me TIME is the healer with chronic back pain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you Wilson.Every case is different though as well as treatment.I've had two herniated disks.I've also know two people that had the op and said it was the best thing that ever happened to them. I also got the same advice as you suggest from a surgeon that an operation is the final straw.

There is also some pioneering micro surgery being done in the USA at the moment, where a patient is in and out of hospital within a couple of hours..a bit like knee surgery these days.If that was available in my home country, I would go for it in a flash.

If time did heal me 100% ,then I wouldn't be taking NSAIDS every week. I have a strict exercise program that I stick to as well.

[ThaiPauly]

Wow Guys you have blown me away by your kindness, you have all bought up some very helpful advice which gives me some HOPE as I was begining to accept that I might have to live with it forever, there may be a chance I can beat it. I will try everything except the operational side as that would have to be the last resort. Thanks one and all

[taxexile]

i know somebody who had the operation done here and it was totally succesful.

nsaid painkillers (neurofen) will damage the stomach lining if taken over a long period of time.

a scan will determine exactly what the problem is with the disc , whether it has herniated or actually split.

various exercises , a correct seating position , keeping your weight down and a suitable exercise regime to strengthen the back muscles that hold the discs in place will help.

dr. don nakoya on soi 23 sukhumvit (120/28 soi prasanmit soi 23 , sukhumvit

tel...02-258-0350 ) is a usa qualified chiropractor with a very good reputation , it might be worth your while paying him a visit for some advice and / or treatment.

[medicinebox]

I hurt my back when I was 25. Heavy squats in the gym. I couldn't sit for more than 5 minutes without chronic lower back pain.

I was refered to a neurosurgeon. I had X-Ray,MRI scan, then CT scan.

I left the hospital and waited for my consultant neurosurgeon to get back in touch with me. And waited, and waited. In the meantime I stopped training and started swimming.

4 months later I decided to call the surgeon. Don't ask why, I guess I was avoiding it.

He said he hadn't recieved the CT scans yet and would get back to me. Couple of days later he called me in. He said I had a "whacking great clump of disc pressing on my spinal cord", (prolapsed discs)and that it would have to come out.

Thing was, the pain had gone now because it was left so long. I told him this and he retorted. He said sometimes the disc can retract and the thick membrane around the spine would heal over.

Point of the story being, if those scans had turned up on his desk on time, I would have gone along with the operation. Altogether it took 7months and I was back into my training. IMHO gentle progressive swimming is what healed it. I think the support from the water stretches all the discs and vertabrea back into place.

That was 9 years ago and I still workout in the gym with weights, no problems.

Make an operation the LAST resort.

Edited May 5, 2005 by medicinebox

[waldwolf]

ThaiPauly - If you have not done so already, you need to consult with a neurologist, and have a scan (MRI/CAT) to determine precisely where/what is the cause of your problem. MRI/CAT scans are preferable to X-Rays, as tissue damage is difficult to see in standard x-rays. An EMG (Electromyography) and/or NCS (Nerve Conduction Study) test may also be adviseable, to see if any muscles or nerves are effected.

A herniated disk can be anything from relatively mild to severe and in rare cases life threatening, depending upon which disk in the spine is effected. As you indicate severe sciatic nerve pain, most likely your problem lays in the L1-L5 (Lumbar) area; most common being L4-L5. Severe nerve damage in this area may also cause loss of blatter/bowel control, and weakness in one or both legs. The sheath surrounding the spinal cord, when brused or irritated, takes a long time (6-12 months) to heal itself. It has a long memory.

While cortisone-like injections may lessen pain, they should be limited to one injection per week over a maximum 3 week period. Your doctor will also probably prescribe NSAID's to help reduce inflamation and swelling. I have personally found, while seated, an electrical heating pad placed on the lower back, and set to low-heat, helps considerably. Others prefer ice-packs or cold compresses. (Continuous morphine injections/capsules are not an acceptable long term solution. Drug reliance will only add to your problem.)

While certain mild exercises may help ease pain, it is critical you consult with a Physical Therapist who can advise and guide any exercise regiment. Some seemingly mild excercises can put you at risk of causing additional damage to the effected area, if you don't know what/how/when to use them correctly.

Having gone through this myself 9 years ago (and still having perodic problems) I can truly say......."I feel your pain." Good luck. Get well fast......and remember......in future, don't lift anything heavier than your dinner plate.

Growing old sucks.

cheers

Edited May 5, 2005 by waldwolf

[james512]

I'm by no means an expert on this but I had sciatic pain for more than a year. I reckon for 3 months of that time I was in complete agony. In my case it was caused by a disc in my lower back pushing up against the nerve.

I saw doctors, was prescribed painkillers, was given exercises but NOTHING worked.

I was then reccommended a chiropractor (this was in Scotland, if it was BKK I'd tell you who it was). First treatment he lay me on my back and slipped a few blocks under me located around the spine. I lay here for approx 15 mins. He then manipulated my back once... used one of those recliners where a section drops out from under you while he applies pressure on your back. He then gave me 5 or 10 mins of direct acupuncture to a muscle in my lower back. Total treatment time was around 30mins, I was given a full physical beforehand so he knew what was wrong.

Anyway, after more than a year of pain I had around 80 percent movement returned to me the following day. I'd walked with a limp for more than a year and this almost vanished overnight. A few more treatments later, 10 -15 mins each time, and I reckon i was 95 percent fit. Full range of movement returned to me and no pain. I did not have full strength though but that came with time.

I do not know any good chiropractors in Bangkok but I am sure there must be some. Problem with LOS is that eveyone thinks they can manipulate the spine it's just a case of finding someone who knows what they are doing

[Farma]

TP, maybe your situation is different, but anything is worth a try.

Ajarn’s experience is very similar to a work colleague’s experience. He suffered for years until a visit to a Thai Masseuse trained at Wat Po fixed his problem. That was 9 years ago and has not suffered since. He still thanks me for suggesting he visit that masseuse.

Farma

[buadhai]

I have had sciatica on and off since I was a kid. I first experienced the pain while doing cross country running in high school.

First, avoid surgery. A couple of years ago, both "Scientific American" and "Consumer Reports" in the US had articles about sciatica and back pain and both advised against surgery.

Second, get up, move about and do all you can in spite of the pain. Lying in bed is the worst thing you can do.

Third, watch your posture when both sitting and standing. When standing, clinch your buttocks and flatten your back. When sitting, make sure you have lumbar support. Avoid driving.

Fourth, do a couple of exercises that will really help:

1 - Put your back to the wall with your feet about one foot (30 cm) away from the wall. Flatten your back against the wall and tighten your butt. Hold it for a few minutes. Relax and repeat several times.

2 - Lie on your back on the floor. Lift your knees toward your chest and hold them against your chest with both arms. Rock forward and backward and then side to side.

Fifth, do not over stride when you walk or run. Take short steps.

Finally, remember that sciatica is caused by a pinched nerve that becomes inflamed. The pain is in your butt and leg because motion of the leg stretches the nerve in the area of your butt causing the pain there and beyond.

Good luck. Avoid quacks. Take care of yourself. I've lived with this for 40 years without drugs or medical treatment. You can too.

[griffer]

I have also suffered long-term with back pain..it was seriously affecting the quality of my life.

I ended up having surgery in Bumrungrad Bangkok.

That was a year ago and still it is a complete success..

this link should take you to my post of last year:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11353&hl=

although surgery is not a suitable option in many cases, if you are 'fortunate' enough to have it done, and it is a success, it is b***** wonderful!!

[ThaiPauly]

Once again my sincere thanks for all the help folks. I have learned something from EVERY post.

I had an MRI Scan on FRiday and I go and get the results tomorrow, I got assurance that the results are MIne and I can take them where I wish. So I will see what the Orthaepedic specialist at one hospital has to say and what treatment he would advise and then take everything for a second opinion, if anybody is interested I will post what the first Doctor has to say tomorrow.

Regards, I am already doing excercises posted (thanks mgnewman) You are a smashing bunch of people, I cannot tell you how grateful I am, I am sure that eventually I will be OK

[buadhai]

One thing I should have added is that it is important to have strong stomach muscles. This enables your trunk to support your weight and takes stress off your spine.

If your stomach is quite weak you can start out with the back against the wall exercise I described and add tensing the stomach muscles along with the buttocks.

When you're a little further along you can do some crunches (with your knees bent) or even use an ab-slide type device for both stretching and stomach strengthening. I've used an ab-slide for several years now and am pleased with the result.

(The ab-slide is known by many brand names. I've seen them at The Mall, Louts, etc. It's a small device with a bar that you hold and wheels that let you scoot the thing back and forth on the floor is you move from a kneeling position to almost prone. The wheels are spring loaded to add tension as you get more and more prone. Here's an ad for one. No connection to me: AbSlide)

Finally, if you're overweight, losing a few kilos will also take stress of the spine.

[ThaiPauly]

Hi Guys,

an old topic back from the Grave.

Fisrtly I would like to thank ProThaiExpat for all the help and advice he has given me outside of the forum- Thanks a lot.

Secondly everyone else who was supportive of my problems.

And last but not least CHUCHOK, who put me on to Dr.Sottee, he is a REAL EXPERT in his field. I went to see him tonight after 4 solid days on 100grm of Morphine a day as the pain is unbearable, even with exercises, he has given me HOPE, he really thinks that I CAN be cured, he has sent my MRI Scan to a specialist and I have to go back and see him Thursday. Before he has even had the results of the Scan verified he is suggesting steroids than a week of bedrest, if that fails a small (1hr) operation

I was blown away by this guys profesionalism, he has given me new hope.

I will keep you updated of my progress

Cheers to each and ecery one of you who took the trouble to respond and take an interest in my dilemma

Paul

[Soi Mongrel]

Can you please pass along the contact details of Dr. Sottee (Sutthee?). I am currently suffering the misery of sciatica.

[ThaiPauly]

I can sympathyse with you Mongrel, his number is 053214 139 (Sottee)

They only open in the evenings, so you can save time by calling beyween 5 and 8, can normally get seem same day. The clinic aint what you would expect, but that does not matter. I pesume you are in Chaing Mai?

Regards

TP

[Soi Mongrel]

No...I'm in Bangkok. I guess I missed the part about Dr. Sottee being in Chiang Mai. If anyone has any good recommendations for Bangkok, I'd love to hear them. I've been seeing a chiropractor with mixed results, and popping pain pills like jelly beans.

[CBPMSM]

I have been re-diagnosed by my doctors that I do not have problems with my hips but have a trapped Sciatic(not sure if I have spelt it correctly) Nerve.

This is giving me a whole world of pain and I am down the hospital on average 3 times a week for a Morphine Injection and then Morphine capsules to counter the intense pain.

They have not really come up with any decent answer as to how to cure the problem, they said it would be a good idea to have some Phsiotherapy (after I suggested it), but they are offering me no idea of a cure other than it will eventually untrap itself. My obvious worry is will it "Untrap Itself" before I become dependant on Morphine, although I never get any highs after administration of Injections or capsules.

Can anyone offer any advice. It would be gratefully received

Thank You in advance

I messed around 6 years and the last year in severe pain as I was scared to death of surgery and moreso of the staph infection rate in the US. after much research I choose Dr. Nanthedej H at Bumrungrad hospital in Bangkok and am so glad I did.. Best decision of my life. The scary thing is you can not really find anything negative about this hospital. But it is true. They are the best and Dr Nanthadej is the most concerned., sincere, caring person I have ever met. An angel on earth. If you are diagnosed with lumbar stenosis I will tell you this man gave me back my life. It will be one year tomorrow that I got back from Thailand after spending 10 days after the surgery to recover. I felt like I could have lifted small buildings one day after surgery. I had no pain but my collegue told me I had a morphine drip going. but was pain free for about 3 months until I took a very bad fall, but going back to Dr Nanthadej with that bad news he said I had most likely torn a nerve sheath and it would simply take some time to heal......with an estimate of a year to a year and a half and to slow down. Well that has been difficult, but I am practically pain free again and I could kick my self for not going thru with the operation sooner. I have another post about my surgery at the bottom of grieffers link . I am new to this forum, but if I have to crawl to Bumrungrad I will. I am so thankful to all the wonderful people there.

There is one problem though. All of the English speaking people there that I talked to had their jaws opened in awe and could not believe the quality of service there. They may have to offer some way to wire your jaws shut. For such a horrible scary diagnosis, it could not have turned out better. and the price is less than your co pay on insurance here (at least in my case) I can not praise the entire organization of Bumrungrad enough. If my health deteriorates, I am buying property in Thailand so I can be close to this hospital. Another tip if you have to have surgery request the 10th floor as the nursing staff is the greatest. Have not had any experience with any other floor, but when I returned for the checkup after my accident I went up to thank them again and they all remembered me.