Tourist Visa Renewal Denied In Manila

[sjones]

Hi,

First my apologies. I am relatively new at all of this, but I have attempted, with due diligence, to research matters regarding visas so as not to impose upon you questions that will understandably spur feelings of nauseating redundancy. Even so, I still remain a bit clueless, and I hope that the following anecdotal information that prefaces my questions will serve as some form of compensation for your help and your patience, particularly given my verbosity.

I am a US national, aged 40. I work for a small US-based private company that provides security information (crime, war, disease, labor unrest, etc) to travelers, expats, and corporate investors (no, this is not a subversive plug). Our company recently decided to transfer its security analysts to their respective regions of coverage. As noted, the company is small, so it was largely up to the analysts to choose their specific destination and work out the logistics for visas, taxes, and such. I am the Asia-Pacific analyst, and for a variety of reasons, I picked Bangkok, with the hope of working here for at least two to three years, although one would be acceptable.

It was with my sincerest effort that I attempted to obtain the proper visa, as I had no desire to skirt any local laws. However, the nature of my job, which basically has me working alone from my apartment, apparently did not prove sufficient to warrant a work permit (as I would not actually be working with any Thai entity, employees, or, for that matter, performing any form of business transactions, marketing, sales, or investing in Thailand). As such, unable to obtain a work permit, it was my understanding that I could not obtain a non-immigration visa (although this may be debatable).

Several pre-departure enquiries, including one involving a former Thai police officer, produced the same recommendation: Get a tourist visa, and you should not have any problems, as long as you avoid any overstays. A reputable relocation service, after explaining my situation to the Thai Immigration Bureau, also suggested that I arrive on a tourist visa, as it did not appear possible for me to obtain a longer-term non-immigrant visa. Fine, not the most comfortable option, but after all, I had heard that several expats had managed to live in Thailand on their tourist visas for years, if not decades. I was only shooting for two to three.

I actually arrived on an “on-arrival” visa in late March this year. Before the 30-day limit expired, I extended it by another ten at the Immigration Bureau. Then, I made my first visa run, receiving a 60-day tourist visa in Penang. I extended that by another 30 days at the Immigration Bureau. (I do not mind the visa runs, since, if nothing else, travel throughout the region benefits my work). Last week, it was time to make my second visa run.

I chose Manila, as I was interested in checking out the current political unrest, plus I received a cheap roundtrip flight. I also checked out this site beforehand. In the “Making the Visa Run…” section, I read, “The Manila consulate is virtually empty and they seem to have no problem issuing any kind of visa.” I also did additional web searches for more information but failed to come across any dissuasive horror stories.

Consequently, I was a somewhat surprised when I arrived and, along the minimal requirements, the Consulate asked for an employer certification (supposedly to prove my company operated outside of Thailand), proof of bank account funds, and a one-way ticket out of Bangkok. I had read that different consulates demanded different requirements, so I was not about to argue the matter…however arbitrary it may have seemed; it was their absolute prerogative. Besides, I am not the confrontational type.

President Arroyo had declared a public holiday to coincide with her SONA, so the banks were closed---not that mine could have helped. Therefore, after returning to my hotel, I got on the web, and took a screen shot of my online bank statement (using the Grab utility in Mac OS X, Windows has a similar feature), saved it as a PDF, and then burned the PDF file onto a CD. I then used the hotel’s business center to print out a color copy of the PDF. I also purchased a one-way ticket from Bangkok to Penang for late September under the hopeful assumption that I would receive the tourist visa. Later that night, my office faxed me a letter (which I had written for them) verifying my employment.

The following day, I returned to the Consulate. The official accepted the printed online bank statement (a relief) and my one-way ticket, but the employment certificate disclosed too much information (like I indicated, I am truly trying to be honest about all of this, perhaps foolishly so). So the process would be delayed by yet another whole day, as I had to wait for my office to fax me a revised letter later that night (time difference prevented a more expeditious turn around).

On my third visit, I submitted all the required documents, as well as the visa renewal form. Now it was just a matter of waiting. The fourth day, I returned, and after all of the running about and additional hotel costs, the Consulate decided not to renew my visa, as I presumably had too many stamps on my passport (remember, I had only been here for four months). Additionally, as an after-the-fact point, my one-way ticket to Penang should have supposedly been to Manila (a moot issue really, as I did not have any intention of getting caught up in an eternal visa run loop to Manila anyway). Frankly, I think they never intended to give me anything from the second I stepped into the place, or maybe that’s just my bitterness speaking.

Despite my failure to receive a tourist visa renewal, I was told that as an American, I could return on either a 30-day transit visa or on the 30-day non-visa (on-arrival visa?). The official suggested the latter, as the transit visa would entail a fee.

Thus, I have returned to Thailand, brimming with certain questions regarding my future, and your comments and suggestions would certainly be appreciated:

Firstly, am I marked forever in some immigration database, warning all Consulate officials never to give me another tourist visa unless I go away for at least ten years before trying again? There does not appear to be any ugly comments or markings on the passport itself. Or, for example, can I go to Penang next month to try to resuscitate the process of renewing my tourist visa?

Secondly, given my rather peculiar work situation and the complications of receiving a work permit, have I been misled in terms of acquiring a non-immigration visa, for which I assumed a work permit was a perquisite? I ask this, because in the ‘visa run’ forum, someone who wanted to live in Thailand for no specific reason (no work permit, wife, retirement, etc) was told that they could most likely receive a one-year multiple entry non-immigration visa through---in his case---the Denver Consulate. If I return to the US briefly, would it be worthwhile to pursue this option?

Thirdly, if all else fails, could I plausibly leave the country every 30 days, and quickly return on a 30-day non-visa/on-arrival visa (somewhat confused about those two) until I get things straightened out. I believe that I could normally do this, as painful as it would be, but once again, I am not sure if my tourist visa rejection has somehow nullified this option. Basically, do I have to leave for good after my 30 days are up?

Fourth and final, how is Kuala Lumpur looking these days?

I am not looking to burden you (further) by asking for details in regards to specific visa requirements, I can review those myself, but just for some general guidance on my options and possible workarounds. My main concern, as you have probably deduced, centers on the ramifications, if any, of being denied a tourist visa, bearing in mind that I did not have any overstay markings on my passport.

Thank you for your help,

SJ

[JuniorExPat]

I may be oversimplifying matters but . . . .

Read this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34831

I think a trip to Penang would provide you with a one year Non-Imm B multi entry visa as a representative of the US company that you work for . . . but I'm not an expert just a little experienced.

JxP

[bartender100]

I have not seen many,if not any threads, that say Manila is a good spot for visa's,its not.

Everybody recommends Penang,go and see one of the agents their, mentioned on many threads,and they will help you.

If your working from home,why not just get a triple entry tourist visa

[thaiflyer1]

If your working from home,why not just get a triple entry tourist visa

If i was in the OP's shoes thats what i/d do also............Penang

[Tywais]

As JuniorExPat try for the non-b with the company documents and be sure to look up all the requirements that you need to take with you (photos, etc).

An alternative if that fails since you plan on staying here for 2-3 years you might consider getting into a Thai language course like AUA if you don't already know the language. They can supply you with a letter and you can get an non-ed with it.

[ray23]

As JuniorExPat try for the non-b with the company documents and be sure to look up all the requirements that you need to take with you (photos, etc).

An alternative if that fails since you plan on staying here for 2-3 years you might consider getting into a Thai language course like AUA if you don't already know the language.  They can supply you with a letter and you can get an non-ed with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Guys are still making the tourist visa runs through Nong Kia into Vientene and I have heard of no problems, hope things work out for you. Sometimes over supplying information can confuse the issue after all tourist means that your not working here and I have never heard of a tourist having to supply the information you were required to provide.

I think I would just proceed put on your best visitor smile and don't talk about your work.

Obviously Thailand does not consider it vialble so let sleeping dogs lie and you should be OK

[camble]

I've been here over 9 months, using 3 consecutive tourist visas. I obtained the first in Los Angeles, then made side trips to Singapore for additional visas when they expired (you can get flights on JetStarAsia for about 3200 RT). I never had any problems, the Royal Thai Embassy in Singapore is convienently located in the shopping district, and you can take the subway direct from the airport. For the latest round, I just did the Cambodia run for a 30 day on-entry visa, but they still used a full page in my passport for the cambo visa, even though they knew I was only going to be in the country for 15 minutes.

Thanks for the heads-up on Manila, I'll avoid that one, but I'd just put down 'tourism' as the reason for being in LOS.

[sjones]

First, thanks for all of your quick replies and great suggestions. My general sense is that, if nothing else, the visa denial in Manila did not necessarily blacklist me out of finding an alternative method.

Before leaving to Manila, I had actually considered applying for a multi-entry visa (although I was admittedly ignorant of the triple option), but I became sidetracked by the requirements just to receive a normal tourist visa. And just to note, I initially kept my mouth shut about my purpose in Bangkok. This was not easy, as the first statement out of the official’s mouth was, “You have lots of stamps, what do you do during the day?” I really hate lying or trying to cleverly obfuscate the facts, so the whole affair became quite unnerving right from the start. But I don’t think it mattered much what I said, as the requirements dumped on me were actually posted on the Consulate’s bulletin board, so they appeared standard.

As for the employment certificate, I assume from their position, they just wanted to make sure that if I was employed, it wasn’t in Thailand, being that I was supposedly just a tourist. The bank account statement request was possibly just another way of asking to see if I had 10,000 baht, US$500, or whatever. Just speculating…

In any case, I will certainly consider the triple-entry visa, the non-immigration b route, as well as the AUA Thai courses, since I actually do want to learn the language.

At a minimum, I have learned my lesson about Manila, and I hope that my post will serve to alert newcomers or remind the more experienced about Manila’s potential pitfalls.

Anyway, I will keep checking back for additional posts, although things are looking notably better already.

Truly grateful for all of your help on this…thanks.

SJ