Japan And Thailand

[Stacking Zeds]

Hi to one and all,

Does anyone have any experience teaching in both Japan and Thailand? I live and work in Japan and I may be travelling to Thailand later in the year for a series of seminars.

I'm curious about some of the differences (or similarities) between the two countries in terms of classroom dynamics, common challenges and so on.

I know this is a long shot. I read an earlier thread where one of the forum users had taught in Taiwan, so you never know.

Zed

[mbkudu]

Hi to one and all,

Does anyone have any experience teaching in both Japan and Thailand? I live and work in Japan and I may be travelling to Thailand later in the year for a series of seminars.

I'm curious about some of the differences (or similarities) between the two countries in terms of classroom dynamics, common challenges and so on.

I know this is a long shot. I read an earlier thread where one of the forum users had taught in Taiwan, so you never know.

Zed

Ijustwannateach might be able to help you.

[Ijustwannateach]

I've taught in both. What kind of thing are you interested in?

[Stacking Zeds]

I've taught in both. What kind of thing are you interested in?

Hi there Ijustwannateach!

Fantastic! I've been trying to locate a teacher with experience in both countries (and just about to give up ). Thanks for replying. I'll try to be as specific as I can.

Firstly, I'll be in Thailand for a fairly short time. I'll be there for (literally) a few lessons and then I'll be heading back to Japan. I'll be dealing with smaller groups (five to ten) with mixed ages. I'm well prepared, but I want to make the best possible impression. But alas, I digress already...

Can I assume that you taught in Japan initially and then went to Thailand? If so, what techniques (that you found to be successful in Japan) did not work as well in Thailand? Conversely, is there anything that you find to be more effective in Thailand than Japan?

I am particularly interested in: -

* Feedback techniques (including corrective feedback, praise and content-related feedback)

* Rapport building / humour

* Role-plays (particularly role selection and styles of role play)

* Discussions and debates

* Drills and heavily controlled tasks

* Task set-up language

Some of the principles are no doubt universal, but where are the biggest differences? Honestly, your input is invaluable and any observations you've made would be most welcome.

Thanks again!

Zed

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, a lot depends on what level you're teaching and what age... Mixed age sounds like a bad idea in either country, but if that's what you're stuck with then that's what you're stuck with. Is it high school or elementary school? Is there any way to determine the level of the kids involved (i.e., complete beginner, intermediate, international school, etc.)? Do you know the name of the school you'll be teaching at (is it a "Prathom" or a "Matthayom," for example? These details would greatly help in tailoring my advice to your situation.

Can I assume that you taught in Japan initially and then went to Thailand? If so, what techniques (that you found to be successful in Japan) did not work as well in Thailand? Conversely, is there anything that you find to be more effective in Thailand than Japan?

Yes, I was in Japan nearly a decade and so far in Thailand about 2-3 years.

I'll do some general comparisons first and then address the specific points you asked about. Some of these points are related to the school system itself, as I think it is important to understand some of those differences to understand more what you are walking into in the two countries.

1. Japanese students are more serious and study-oriented than Thais. This is partly the result of the recent (last decade or so) policy here that students cannot fail. The students here have figured this out and so they know there is no real penalty if they do nothing. The Japanese, on the other hand, know only too well how few chances they have to get ahead, and that's why they're more serious.

2. Both countries have the "teaching English as a dead language" problem. Most Thai teachers are about par with most Japanese teachers in terms of their actual functional ability to speak the language, while being grammar masters on paper. They have equal issues with face in terms of demonstrably not being able to speak English with a foreign teacher.

3. In Japan, the system is set up not to trust you (I'm speaking of most primary-secondary schools) as an independent teacher. In many positions there you are relegated to the "assistant teacher" role (or if unlucky, the "living tape recorder" role). In Thailand, you are the main teacher (who may even have an assistant, though likely a useless one) and all the responsibility falls on you.

4. In their favour, Thai teachers are not as big-headed as Japanese teachers. They are well aware of their limitations, and will defer to most decent native speakers on points of the language (unlike Japanese teachers who would sometimes argue points of my own language with me!)

5. Typical Thai students, as I said, are not very study-oriented. That means you need to have a lot of games (SIMPLE games) and activities (SIMPLE activities) to hold their attention.

6. It depends what type of school you go to- but Thai public schools are not gerrymandered by level as Japanese public schools are; however, Thai CLASSES are gerrymandered by level within the school. In other words, the students in a school are chosen by neighborhood- you get a random sample of the kids locally- but in each grade the classes will be divided so the best students are all in class 1, the next group in class 2, and so on until the dregs of the grade are in the last class. These classes are typically groups of 50 students. It doesn't sound like you'll be teaching typical classes of this type; perhaps it means they will take the best students out of each grade.

7. Japanese disciplinary problems are largely related to bullying and chronic absenteeism; Thai disciplinary problems are more in line with Western ones: broken families, alcohol and drug abuse, smoking, unsafe sex, teen pregnancy, etc.

8. In a Japanese school the policies are largely controlled by a district or prefectural or national policy; in a Thai school there is a lot more power vested in the director of the school.

I am particularly interested in: -

* Feedback techniques (including corrective feedback, praise and content-related feedback)

* Rapport building / humour

* Role-plays (particularly role selection and styles of role play)

* Discussions and debates

* Drills and heavily controlled tasks

* Task set-up language

Thai students are used to teachers who can be strict, scolding them or even whipping them for poor performance or inattention. Praise is a welcome change for many. Students who are actually interested in a subject or who like the teacher are more likely to benefit from the feedback, but this is the same in Japan.

Thais love humour, and though their sense of humour is sometimes a bit... basic (slapstick, making faces, etc.) as indeed the Japanese sense of humour can be, they are more willing to join in and show their enthusiasm for it. In a serious Japanese class students might look around to see if it is ok to laugh at a joke; in a Thai class they would just laugh on their own, no problem.

Thais are more easy-come, easy-go- they build rapport more rapidly, and also get angry and turned off more quickly. With a Japanese class, it may take a few years to get them really warmed up to you, but then they're yours forever.

Japanese are quite shy in role-play situations, I found, though once they get used to the idea they can be very good at them. The Thais just revel in them, hamming it up for maximum effect- especially if you choose ladyboy types [if they're picking the best English-speaking kids in your school to be in these sample classes, it's almost a certainly one or two of the boys will be ladyboys].

Forget discussions and debates, both in Japan and here, unless you've got a VERY advanced group to work with. You don't get the cultural aversions to controversial topics here as much as in Japan, but the functional level of discussion is super, super low, and problems related to status differences among different individuals can still arise.

Drills and heavy control are GOOD, as long as the students are either high enough level to follow your basic instructions and/or you do enough modelling.

Once again, it's hard to give you more specific advice without knowing what kind of students you're teaching, but you should assume the worst regarding task set-up language (i.e., no comprehension at all, all modelling and drawing) and feel lucky if you get a better situation.

Feel free to ask for more detail, and good luck!

"Steven"

[Buki]

I totally agree. Japanese and Koreans are basically the same with their attitude with language acquisition. Specially when used to get a better paying jobs. I enjoyed teaching Japanese and Koreans, they appreciate a teacher who prepares lessons ahead of time and specially the very interesting ones. I had mostly adults and university students, they are a real gem. And I agree they tend to become real loyal to you when they like you a lot as a teacher and as a person. I miss my students.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Buki

[Ladphrao]

I have lived in both countries, while I never taught in Japan, I can make a few comments on general differences.

Japanese are very orderly people who like control and dislike confusion and chaos. If you are an orderly, structured and organized person who likes everything to go according to plan in an efficient manner, Japan may be a good destination.

Thais are for the most part quite comfortable without control over events, plans or efficiency. If you are uncomfortable with confusion, chaos, lack of planning, and a lack of control, Thailand is not for you. Things get done in Thailand, but exactly when or how or by whom is rarely if ever known ahead of time.

I prefer Thailand, I kind of like the spontaneity and lack of structure since I myself am not the most organized or rule following individual in the world, but it can at times be frustrating even for me. I can see why others don’t adapt well here. In Japan on the other hand, everything would always be planned out ahead of time. We used to have a weekend golf outing once a month where I worked in Japan, tee times, who was in each foursome, what was to be served for lunch and every other detail was carefully planned and went off like clockwork.

What do you prefer? Seriousness (that is not to say the Japanese are always serious) or playfulness (that is not to imply Thais are never serious). Obviously this is an over simplification of the two cultures, but I think most with experience in both countries would agree in principle.

[Stacking Zeds]

Greetings all,

Thanks for all the replies Wow, I didn't expect such detail! I have a couple of comments to make, some clarifying to do, and a couple of more specific questions. I tried to limit the number of questions because I think you've already gone above and beyond what I was expecting.

Do you know the name of the school you'll be teaching at (is it a "Prathom" or a "Matthayom," for example? These details would greatly help in tailoring my advice to your situation.

1. The students. I won't be teaching at schools. These are private classes and the focus is primarily on adult learners. There will be some school age students and they will be grouped with peers of a similar age and at a similar level. Despite all this, I found your explanations informative and it clarifies a few things about school learning environments for me. Interesting policy regarding the compulsory pass for each student! I certainly don't blame the savvy Thai students for slackening off :-)

I liked your observation regarding the trust issues. Spot on. I luckily don't have to deal with it myself but I'm well aware of it.

Japanese are quite shy in role-play situations, I found, though once they get used to the idea they can be very good at them. The Thais just revel in them, hamming it up for maximum effect- especially if you choose ladyboy types..

...and problems related to status differences among different individuals can still arise.

2. Role plays. Just what I wanted to hear. How receptive are adult learners to role plays? Will the status of different individuals in a small group affect the willingness of students to play certain roles? This problem largely disappears when roles are allocated here (enter: Japanese slapstick humour), but would it be different in Thailand? I am talking about adult learners where there are different ages and genders.

Just a couple of points regarding role selection. What are the taboo roles in Thailand? In Japan (as you know), everyone with the exception of members of the imperial family is fair game. In Thailand, I would expect a greater number of roles that one just shouldn't allocate.

Are there any universally successful roles? I am talking about celebrities that can be used in role plays in lessons based on routines, abilities, likes and dislikes etc, where the subjective answers of the celebrities are known or can be speculated upon by students. In Japan, figures like Ichiro Suzuki, Ayumi Hamasaki and Junichiro Koizumi are always a safe bet (among many others), and Kim Jong-Il gets a jersey if you need a "baddie". Does Thailand have an equivalent of the trio above?

In situation-based and transactional role plays (buying fast food, going through immigration, exchanging currency), are there any issues with status? I would think not, but you never know...

Great tip regarding the ladyboy types by the way :-)

Forget discussions and debates, both in Japan and here, unless you've got a VERY advanced group to work with.

3. Discussions and debates. Yes, there will be very advanced groups. Actually, some of the students will be studying to improve their negotiation skills. I have one question. How prepared are Thai students to play devil's advocate in debates? This has been very successful here. The idea is that it adds a humourous element that borders on irrational but never quite crosses the line, thus sustaining the discussion and maintaining a light atmosphere in a heavy topic where highly specialized language may be used.

Drills and heavy control are GOOD, as long as the students are either high enough level to follow your basic instructions and/or you do enough modelling.

4. Controlled tasks and drills. OK. It seems no adjustments are needed here. Do you find yourself using controlled tasks in the same way that you used them in Japan?

Again, thank you very much for the time effort you put in with your reply. This has been very helpful to me.

Best Regards,

Zed

[Ijustwannateach]

Sorry, Zeds, I've had a little drama going on in another subforum that's distracted me. Now, where were we?

2. Role plays. Just what I wanted to hear. How receptive are adult learners to role plays? Will the status of different individuals in a small group affect the willingness of students to play certain roles? This problem largely disappears when roles are allocated here (enter: Japanese slapstick humour), but would it be different in Thailand? I am talking about adult learners where there are different ages and genders.

I think as long as it's understood that it's role play, the big boss might even get a kick out of pretending to be the underling. There's a pretty strong tradition of comic-acting, which is often imitated in private settings (think of the Osaka manzoku troupe, not the straight man-funny man routine but the large group skits), so if you present things in this kind of light they should take to it right away.

Just a couple of points regarding role selection. What are the taboo roles in Thailand? In Japan (as you know), everyone with the exception of members of the imperial family is fair game. In Thailand, I would expect a greater number of roles that one just shouldn't allocate.

Are there any universally successful roles? I am talking about celebrities that can be used in role plays in lessons based on routines, abilities, likes and dislikes etc, where the subjective answers of the celebrities are known or can be speculated upon by students. In Japan, figures like Ichiro Suzuki, Ayumi Hamasaki and Junichiro Koizumi are always a safe bet (among many others), and Kim Jong-Il gets a jersey if you need a "baddie". Does Thailand have an equivalent of the trio above?

Naturally, anyone even vaguely connected to the monarchy here would be best omitted from a roleplay example, and for a foreigner leaving monks out of it would be safest, too- though the Thais themselves seem to include such figures in some of their TV comedy, they would have a much better idea where exactly that dangerous fine line should be drawn.

It would probably be best to start a new thread asking for good roles- or maybe in the general forum asking for famous people- because I am so indifferent to them I don't know who most of them are. The best I can come up with is that the sports star they are probably most proud of is Paradorm, the tennis player.

My M.1s recently put on a play which was a satire of most of the figures in high (and low) politics here in Thailand, but then, they're pretty high-society themselves- there are many double standards here, and once again it's hard to give you advice without knowing EXACTLY who you're teaching. Safest solution is simply to leave anyone with any power out of the equation. Stars and singers and actors are safer public figures to target.

In situation-based and transactional role plays (buying fast food, going through immigration, exchanging currency), are there any issues with status? I would think not, but you never know...

Nah, not really. You can probably just run these as normal, because certainly the foreign guys who do this won't care two spits just who any Thai happens to be back in the provinces.

You should probably look for cues when you're teaching a group, however, about who is more important- especially if it's the rude type of person who is used to pulling rank. In that case, he may even argue with you points of the lesson (no different from in Japan in some ways). At that point it's a judgement call for you- are you more interested in winning the point or in keeping harmony in the class? Never an easy call to make when you run into the type of class that forces you to make it.

Great tip regarding the ladyboy types by the way :-)

I thought so... Having them ham things up also makes the remainder of the class feel less self-conscious.

Forget discussions and debates, both in Japan and here, unless you've got a VERY advanced group to work with.

3. Discussions and debates. Yes, there will be very advanced groups. Actually, some of the students will be studying to improve their negotiation skills. I have one question. How prepared are Thai students to play devil's advocate in debates? This has been very successful here. The idea is that it adds a humourous element that borders on irrational but never quite crosses the line, thus sustaining the discussion and maintaining a light atmosphere in a heavy topic where highly specialized language may be used.

Hmmmmm.... well, Thais are a bit more direct than Japanese in terms of negotiation. Instead of saying "ahem, herm, a, mmmmm, eeeeee-toooo... muzukashi, ya na!" they will simply say "no, we can't do that." Although often they will refer to a (sometimes mythical) "boss" or "supervisor" who will be used as a puppet to say no instead (saves face for them).

Thais seem to enjoy contemplating slightly off-beat ideas so I don't think it's asking too much to get them to play Devil's Advocate- as long as the vocabulary and the grammar are all there.

The place that you may run into trouble is if you're dealing with debates that touch on their business. I was teaching an adult group here for awhile and though the goal was to improve their sales presentations, I never could get them to demonstrate any of their actual products. The reason's still a mystery to me- and I'm sure you know many similar mysteries from your experience in Japan.

Drills and heavy control are GOOD, as long as the students are either high enough level to follow your basic instructions and/or you do enough modelling.

4. Controlled tasks and drills. OK. It seems no adjustments are needed here. Do you find yourself using controlled tasks in the same way that you used them in Japan?

Again, thank you very much for the time effort you put in with your reply. This has been very helpful to me.

Best Regards,

Zed

Pretty much the same way, although attention spans are shorter and you may not be able to hold large groups long enough to explain very complicated scenarios (once again not speaking of the advanced level groups).

No problem, glad to help. Glad there's some use for my experience in both countries!

"Steven"

[Stacking Zeds]

No problem, glad to help. Glad there's some use for my experience in both countries!

"Steven"

Thanks Steven, for all your help! I've been able to use all of this and I feel much more confident

Zed