Well Water - One For The Scientists/chemists

[wilko]

Can anyone tell me what kind of chemical reaction is going on here?

The other day I was cleaning a bowl with domestic bleach and when I added the water from my well the water turned brown; what kind of chemical reaction would cause this? I'm assumimng that the bleach is HCl? or something like that but what is in the well water would cause this brown color to occur?

Oh. by the way. I took a another sample of the water immediately after and put it in a clear container and it was relatively clear....

Edited February 8, 2006 by wilko

[Patex]

Can anyone tell me what kind of chemical reaction is going on here?

The other day I was cleaning a bowl with domestic bleach and when I added the water from my well the water turned brown; what kind of chemical reaction would cause this? I'm assumimng that the bleach is HCl? or something like that but what is in the well water would cause this brown color to occur?

Oh. by the way. I took a another sample of the water immediately after and put it in a clear container and it was relatively clear....

I'm not an expert but I think your water turns brown bec it's ferruginous. Buy yourself a filter.

Patex

[penzman]

We have two taps that we don't use so often and a few ounces of rusty water comes out when we do.

Have you tried the same again with bleach to see if it happens every time?

[zzap]

Hcl is Hydrochloric acid, bleach is a base.

I don't know what could cause the colour, where does your well-water originate?

[h90]

I think some O2 or O3 or Cl2 is in the bleach.

I guess iron from the pump or somewhere else is causing that. But I don't know an easy test to verify if I am right or not....

Or it is the many disseases swimming in the water and getting angree with you when you feed them with bleach.....

Can anyone tell me what kind of chemical reaction is going on here?

The other day I was cleaning a bowl with domestic bleach and when I added the water from my well the water turned brown; what kind of chemical reaction would cause this? I'm assumimng that the bleach is HCl? or something like that but what is in the well water would cause this brown color to occur?

Oh. by the way. I took a another sample of the water immediately after and put it in a clear container and it was relatively clear....

[chippie]

http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/housing/356-482/356-482.html

Piece of p*ss

[Chang_paarp]

Can anyone tell me what kind of chemical reaction is going on here?

The other day I was cleaning a bowl with domestic bleach and when I added the water from my well the water turned brown; what kind of chemical reaction would cause this? I'm assumimng that the bleach is HCl? or something like that but what is in the well water would cause this brown color to occur?

Oh. by the way. I took a another sample of the water immediately after and put it in a clear container and it was relatively clear....

You have some disoved stuff in the water, red is usually iron (rust) but it could be a number of other chemicals including calcium. You will not see it in a small container as there is not enough volume to see the colouring.

In Perth Oz we lots of trouble with water stain from ground water (bore water). It is usually reddish. I made the mistake of parking a car near some sprinklers when I first moved here. I thought it would keep the car cool, wondered why no-one was parking there. The boss was not ammused by the new colour of the car when I went back to the shop at the end of the day.

Bleach is sodium hyperchloride(spelling). I it basicly sodium hydroxide and chlorine, almost the opposite of HCl, you mix the 2 and get some bad explosion and chlorine gas. Very unpleasant to breathe. I have used both in the swimming pool industry, and seen the result of their being mixed.

Putting a strong alkali like bleach into water with some of the potentially staining stuff in it can cause stains. Some pool owners in Perth try to save money by using their bore to fill their pool, then call the pool shop in a pannic when the pool stains after they start adding chemicals. Not prety to look at and expensive to fix.

[BambinA]

for my so-called theory (base on the true stroy) this oxidazion reaction

theory 1

1 if bleach = Hcl

2 rust (from old tab) = FeO ,Ferrous Oxide

FeO+2HCl --> FeCl2+H2O

but ferrous chloride is white !!

theory 2

1 if bleach =O3

2 rust (from old tab) = FeO

this oxidation finally you will get Fe2O3,Ferric Oxide (Brown Color)

well... im not really sure ...

NEXT ..

he he .. methinks if that 2# reaction can happend, it 'd have too much rust in tab water

the brown color 'd come from rust then hahahah (even no bleach)

[BambinA]

My so-called theory 3

1 if bleach = sodium hypochlorite,NaClO

2 rust in old tab = FeO

(i cant balancing a chemical equation as good as b4 ..but just for fun .. my solve maybe wrong)

2FeO+NaClO-->Fe2O3+NaCl

Fe2O3 >Brown

NaCl > Sodium Cholide,salt dissolve

PS...dont be serious with my theory , as i told b4 ..just for fun

[GuestHouse]

Bamby is more or less correct, except for the reaciton is with Fe ions in water not FeO..

The active component in your bleach is Chlorine locked up in a compound ‘Sodium Hypochlorite’.

When you add the bleach to the water the Chlorine reacts with ferrous ions in the water, which are precipitating out as Ferric Chloride – Soluble in water it appears as a brown coloration in the water but if the water is left to evaporate the Ferric Chloride will be left behind as a brown dust (actually crystals). Do not confuse this with rust – Rust is Ferric Oxide.

High doses of Ferric Chloride are poisonous so, I wouldn’t make a habit of adding bleach to the water in which you are washing your eating utensils, pots, pans, plates etc. Otherwise you can disregard it, apart from you might want to keep it in mind as a party trick – demonstrating ‘Reactive Precipitation’ after a few Changs could b fun.. I guess.

As I say, in the very low concentrations that you are producing it is nothing to worry about, but it does suggest you have very high iron content in your water supply. I suspect anywhere that is frequently exposed to your water supply, ie the grout between your bathroom tiles, is showing this stain. These brown water stains are rust.

Bamby, Rust is FE2 O3 and is non reactive, hence the difficulty with the equation.

Edited February 8, 2006 by GuestHouse

[penzman]

Bamby is more or less correct, except for the reaciton is with Fe ions in water not FeO..

The active component in your bleach is Chlorine locked up in a compound ‘Sodium Hypochlorite’.

When you add the bleach to the water the Chlorine reacts with ferrous ions in the water, which are precipitating out as Ferric Chloride – Soluble in water it appears as a brown coloration in the water but if the water is left to evaporate the Ferric Chloride will be left behind as a brown dust (actually crystals). Do not confuse this with rust – Rust is Ferric Oxide.

High doses of Ferric Chloride are poisonous so, I wouldn’t make a habit of adding bleach to the water in which you are washing your eating utensils, pots, pans, plates etc. Otherwise you can disregard it, apart from you might want to keep it in mind as a party trick – demonstrating ‘Reactive Precipitation’ after a few Changs could b fun.. I guess.

As I say, in the very low concentrations that you are producing it is nothing to worry about, but it does suggest you have very high iron content in your water supply. I suspect anywhere that is frequently exposed to your water supply, ie the grout between your bathroom tiles, is showing this stain. These brown water stains are rust.

Bamby, Rust is FE2 O3 and is non reactive, hence the difficulty with the equation.

Anything else you'd recommend apart from a water filter? Pool chlorine?

I normally add a drop of bleach in the sink when washing dishes and also, every few months drop some bleach in our underground water tank (concrete) as it would get foggy and I'd also find brown slimy sludge in it and the odd frog when I empty it for a good wash.

I may replace it later on with a plastic tank as it seems that ground water seeps in it during the rainy season. I can climb down in the concrete tank but doubt i 'll be able to with the plastic one.Also, the water coming from the main is not all that clean, if I fill the tub using the water tank, the water is clean, if I shut off the pump and draw the water direcxtly from the main, brown... I believe the sludge at the bottom of the tank is partly dirt from the main that deposits at the bottom.

[BambinA]

Real Answer follow this link

[GuestHouse]

Penzman,

The advice I gave regarding bleach was to the OP who has a problem with iorn in his water - reacting with the bleach to produce Ferric Chloride, which as I have stated is not that good for health.

If you are using mains water (almost certainly from rain resevoirs) or you are using rainwater you have gathered yourself, then there is no problem with iorn content and no problem with using the bleach. Although I do take the general view that the less chemicals we use the better.

Edited February 8, 2006 by GuestHouse

[chownah]

I think that what really happens is the sodium hypochlorite dissociates when it is dissolved in water creating hypochlorous acid and hydroxyl ions. the hypochlorous acid oxidizes the ferrous iron into ferric iron with reacts with the hydroxyl ions to produce ferric hydroxide which is insoluble and precipitates out. Seem s to me that this is a standard method of water treatment to remove dissolved iron....seems like the ferric hydroxide is non-toxic too since it seems unlikely that a standard water treatment method would create a toxic byproduct in the water.

[gburns57au]

why all the science stuff???

ok...bleach is a solvent.....add solvent to water that has come through a clay base.....the solvent releases the pigment in the clay......turning the water brown......

simple really.....

17 years in a paint factory taught me something.....

[penzman]

You busy this week-end?

We're repainting the house!

[BambinA]

oxidation from Fe(OH)3

Fe2+ oxidizes to Fe3-

Fe(OH)3 transfers to Fe2O3 when drying...it loses water

10 H2O + 4 Fe+2 + O2 --> 8 H+ + 4 Fe(OH)3

Fe(OH)3 = brown color

end of news

[wilko]

Thanks so much for all your erudite replies.......

My suspicions were iron content, but as I only scraped through on high school chemistry I wasn’t sure.

My water is usually supplied from the mains but in typical Eastern Seaboard fashion it is only intermittent. We have a 1000L tank but still have to switch to the well about once a fortnight (or week even).

We do use the well water for washing clothes as it is un-metered, but use “colour” washing powder that I believe has no bleach in it. I have a new housekeeper and have just started doing the laundry “in house” as it were, so I’m monitoring the clothes quite closely and have not noticed any change in colour or reddening/browning. (Apart from some bleaching that occurred to a 5000 baht pair of Chinese linen trousers, but I think that was down to an earlier hand wash and soak in mains water and some “unauthorised” washing unction.)

Bambini –you are quite mad but thanks for the advice and the chocolate theory too, unfortunately there’s not a lot to drool at where I live and I don’t have anyone to slap my ear or even notice if I was drooling….the house keeper gives me some wellie from time to time but she speaks with a North west accent so with that and my limited Thai, communication is somewhat limited.

Particular thanks to Guesthouse and Chang Parp too!

[Simbo]

It was probably the Haita (bleach) taking the muck off the bowl you were cleaning.

[monty]

Positively too much iron!

I have exactly the same problem with my deep well (Mabprachan area).

Water comes out perfectly clear, is perfectly usable for the house, but if I use it to fill up the swimmingpool, it instantly turns brown. Caused by the reaction with the chlorine in the water.

I managed to get almost everything out by making a filter, filled up to the brim with a substance called "birm" (google for it!). This is used mainly to remove both iron and manganese from water.

These big filters, often sold in Lotus supermarkets simply don't get the iron out. Get all the sand and active charcoal out and replace with Birm and you'll have the perfect iron filter....

Locally available, not that expensive either...