Story On Samui In The Guardian Today

[HarryHerb]

All you Samuites may want to check this out, although it doesn't make for pleasant reading :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1748146,00.html

[Prakanong2005]

From the article

"And a change in Thai property laws has led to many of these foreigners, or farangs, staying on."

????????

But otherwise a good article - thanks for the link.

Edited April 8, 2006 by Prakanong2005

[chuchok]

Is it true that a local mafia runs everything on the island? "What is mafia?" he asks. "Family. That's all. You see everything here as chaos and ugly. But I love the downtown. If you don't like, just go somewhere else. We do not want anything to change. No need. We do not need more police, lawyer or busybodies from Bangkok. Money and control do not go together."

I wonder what busybodies from Bangkok think about this....

[VTR1000]

A very well written article and in my opinion very true too.

Samui - paradise?

[BattyBatty]

I know Pee San. He wouldnt say crap like this. This guy is polite as hel_l to all and sundry - a street bum would recieve his best manners. No farking way do I believe he said this.... Also, regarding the wedding, no way would he wink at you in the insinuated cocky fashion from a distance. More likely he would wai you from nearby.

Also, no way in hel_l did the chief of police talk as he did. And I dont believe for one second that he took a call from an Italian guy during the ineterview complaining about noise (yeh right, as if... A. a ferang would phone the police to complain about noise and B. if he did, he would get through to the chief.) <deleted>. Complete farking <deleted>.

The American guy who owned the bar was no saint either. Tragic that he was shot, but the reporters are making him out as an innocent happy go lucky bar owner who got shot for no reason. 3 days before he was shot he was talking about setting up a 'ferang mafia' to have a go back at the 'thai mafia bullies', and on the day he was shot he confronted a known mafia dude, pilled out of his head on yabba and shouted at the guy to get the hel_l away from the general area. The guy shot him. He didnt deserve to be shot, but the reporter leaves out this bit of info to paint him as an innocent victim. Its simple.... if you own a bar with a guest house above frequented by noisy mafia taking the piss, then sell. Even if you loose money, just sell. Dont get drunk and threaten to organise a farking ferang mafia and have a go at them, or, as we all know, they will farkin shoot you. Farking idiot. What did he expect?

Complete <deleted> also, about the sad monk rolling his eyes and near to tears about the state of the island. Exagorated sensationalism. <deleted>, in other words.

Fearng businessmen EVERYWHERE? with faces on billboards at street junctions? I presume he is refering to the one solitary billboard with a ferang face of Kurt, near the fammily mart/ringroad junction close to tescos? Again, exagorated sensationalism. Bollcoks, in other words.

[chuchok]

shouted at the guy to get the hel_l away from the general area. The guy shot him. He didnt deserve to be shot

Perhaps a public stoning would be in order then....

[taxexile]

Danger in paradise

The murder of a young holiday-maker on an idyllic Thai island in January was horrifying, but a seemingly rare occurrence. Not so. Adrian Levy and Cathy Scott-Clark uncover the seething resentments on Koh Samui that have sparked a violent crime wave that locals and westerners do their best to conceal

Saturday April 8, 2006

The Guardian

There are beguiling days on Koh Samui when a collar of mist descends on the Thai island, making it difficult to tell the sea from the sky. Fishermen call these "days without prayer", when no one can trust what they see and boats dare not set sail.

On a day such as this, at 10am, on January 2, a tourist thought he spotted a body bobbing in the water. An hour passed before a local jet-ski instructor dragged the corpse to shore. By the time Britain woke up seven hours later, the dead body had been identified as missing 21-year-old backpacker Katherine Horton, from a small town near Cardiff. Beaten into submission with a parasol on Samui's Lamai beach the previous evening, Horton had been raped twice before being left to drown in the sea near to the resort where she had been staying. Footage of her body, sprawled in the sand in a green dress, played across the nightly Thai TV news. The Horton case became a front-page story in the UK, too: murder on an idyllic holiday island.

The murder hunt moved at lightning speed. Two impoverished Thai fishermen were swiftly arrested, interrogated, tried and convicted. The men - Bualoi Posit and Wichai Somkhaoyai, aged 23 and 24 - were sentenced to death on January 18, the day after Katherine Horton's funeral took place in the village church at Llanishen, Wales. Today they are still on death row, awaiting an appeal hearing. Not against conviction - their lawyers will argue that their lives should be spared since both men readily confessed.

The Thai prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, a millionaire entrepreneur, publicly thanked the detectives for solving the crime so speedily, paying them a bonus of £1,500. The Horton killing was aberrant, he proclaimed; and, as a further reassurance to tourists, Samui's three most senior police officers were removed and replaced with veteran detectives sent by Bangkok. Security on the island was to be overhauled, with the introduction of CCTV, extra police patrols and new police stations, at a cost of 107m baht (£1.6m). And a new governor was brought in from the mainland, too. By February, life had returned to normal on an otherwise idyllic isle.

Or that was the image presented. In fact, behind the reorganisation lies a disturbing story. The Horton murder, according to Thai academics and civil servants who have submitted a confidential report to their government, was the culmination of "a social and moral implosion" on Koh Samui, an island that, over the past two decades, has been transformed from a pirates' hideaway, home to coconut farmers and peripatetic fishermen, into a raucous engine of capitalism. More than a million tourists visit every year - at least 60% of them from the UK - overwhelming the local population of 30,000 islanders. And a change in Thai property laws has led to many of these foreigners, or farangs, staying on.

In the past four years, Samui has been put up for sale and the farangs, taking advantage of preferential exchange rates, have bought more than one third of the island, investing in bars, hotels, restaurants and villas. However, according to the unpublished Thai report, fewer than 20% of islanders have benefited from the boom, leading to "explosive tensions" between rich and poor residents, mainland Thais and foreigners.

These tensions, the report's authors say, have triggered a succession of violent assaults and robberies, break-ins and acts of vandalism - crimes of opportunity and spite predominantly aimed at tourists. Island families who have done well from the sell-off and incoming foreign businessmen have become embroiled in a rats' nest of competing interests.

The illusion of a pristine and bountiful retreat is maintained by the local authorities, the police and mayor's office, and local businesses, both Thai and western, lest reports of violent incidents damage the tourist trade. When the Samui Express, an English-language paper, dared debate the Horton murder, it was harangued by readers who demanded the paper "print something nice" instead. Refusing to be bullied, the same paper reported that a Thai had raped a second British tourist, Corrie Ann Holt, on January 21. Although this was unconnected to the Horton murder - the two fishermen responsible had already been sentenced by the time the second woman was attacked - the similarity of the crimes, within three weeks of each other and on neighbouring beaches, raised questions about the safety of tourists on Samui, the paper suggested. However, readers of the Samui Express, organised into a group calling itself "the angry residential bar owners", demanded the paper stop reporting criminal incidents, accusing it of being "as bad as the rapists" in damaging local business.

In Koh Samui's police headquarters, a lengthy, ink-spattered crime sheet, covering the months before the Horton murder and the weeks after, tells the real story. Of the various acts of violence and revenge, only the Horton case has been publicised and solved. On October 20 2005, an Irish woman was raped in the toilets of a club by men who had befriended her on the beach - there were no witnesses. On December 10 2005, a British holiday-maker was shot in the leg while drinking at a crowded tourist bar. That same evening a Thai policeman was gunned down when he went on his bicycle to quieten a rowdy pub - the patrons didn't notice.

On December 29 2005, a Scottish holiday-maker was beaten with an iron stave by a security guard weary of western revellers. Five days later the Scot was accused by local police of a rape he didn't commit. On January 4 this year, a 12-year-old girl was raped beside the Sila Ngu temple, her parents withdrawing the case after being "humiliated" during the investigation. The "unnatural death" on January 16 of 56-year-old Briton Alan Jones, in his house on Samui's Lamai beach, was logged by police with no conclusions as to the cause. Three days later a Swedish tourist was sexually assaulted behind a beach-front bungalow - insufficient evidence was found to pursue the case. On January 29, a Thai coconut-seller was killed in a drive-by shooting - neither gunman nor gun has been found. Numerous disappearances and brutal assaults are registered only as numbers, and all this in a place slightly smaller than the Isle of Wight.

Three months on from the Horton murder, it is business as usual on Samui. Tourist numbers are improving, and any patch of building land not already sold is up for auction. All around is construction on an island that has yet to build a sewage system.

The manner of your arrival on Koh Samui sets the tone. If you fly, Bangkok Airways charge among the highest fares in Asia. The alternative is by sea. On March 27 last year, an overloaded ferry sank off Samui, killing 14 tourists. New passenger safety rules were introduced. On February 14 this year, a marine police launch pulled alongside a local ferry and found that, although the vessel was registered to carry 33 passengers, there were 163 paying tourists aboard.

Everything bows before profit on Samui. Even the death of Katherine Horton was reduced to a sum. Local tourist chiefs, who joined village head men clutching joss sticks and flowers in a memorial service on Thong Krut beach, could be heard only hours later calculating that the murdered British student had cost Samui 150m baht (£2.2m) as British visitor numbers had immediately slumped by 30%.

Sakchai Chaitawat, head man of Baan Harn village, close to where Horton was last seen alive, was listening to his ham radio on the day her body was pulled from the sea. "I heard what Samui detectives were saying and it made me feel bad," he says. "The officer wasn't interested. He said to his men, 'We should say it was a drowning.' 'Maybe we could say the girl fell off the rock.' " Sakchai, who also edits a local newspaper, says no one - especially those who had investments in tourist reports - wanted to look too deeply into the murder.

In the days after the death, the Samui police put forward several theories. First there was no rape at all. Then it was four Bangkok guys who roared away from the scene on motorbikes. Later it was a Thai waiter from the mainland. And then - before finally arresting the two fishermen - Samui police falsely named as a suspect a Scottish IT consultant, Callum MacDonald, who had dinner with Horton only hours before she disappeared.

Three months on, MacDonald is, perhaps surprisingly, still in Thailand. When he arrived last December, it was the first time he had left Europe. "I originally thought Samui was like a small Scottish island: naive, even innocent, and friendly. I don't feel like that any more," he says. After Horton vanished, MacDonald watched as potential evidence was ignored. "All of the other tourists staying at the resort went," MacDonald says. "No statements were taken. The crime scene was not secured. Then, as one of the only foreigners left, I found myself accused of raping Kath. I couldn't believe it."

Eventually, the Thai prime minister sent a police investigation team from Bangkok. The detectives captured the fishermen who raped Katherine Horton (using DNA evidence recovered from her body), but numerous other crimes were left no nearer a solution.

One of these involved American engineer Kris Perkins, who's been running a bar in the main beach resort of Chaweng since 2003. He was critically injured when he was shot twice by a Thai gangster after remonstrating with rowdy party-goers at a guesthouse above his bar. His is an archetypal Samui story. We traced Perkins to Houston, Texas, where he is still recovering from injuries that have left him partially paralysed and owing £30,000 in Thai hospital bills. The shooting happened last March and Perkins has spent a year trying to get the Samui police to investigate. "I have never seen a crime report. I have no case number," he says. "The island did not want to confront what happened to me."

Perkins began to dig. He discovered that the gunman was from a well-connected Samui family and went by a gang name. The Thai police's Crime Suppression Bureau has him listed as a convicted killer. In December 2005, the gang member was suspected of shooting dead a 33-year-old Thai policeman (a British national was caught in the crossfire, taking a bullet in the leg); he was briefly arrested, then released again.

Colonel Chakkrit Srisuwan has not had a day off since he was sent by Bangkok on January 21 to take over policing of Samui, his predecessors having been accused of dragging their feet in the Horton inquiry. We ask him what has gone wrong on the island. "I am the new broom," is the only answer he will give. "I say to my men when I arrive, 'Know one thing: I am the big mafia. I got the gun. I am the law and the authority.' I say: 'I come here not to bargain or to kill you, but to tell you we are all here to serve Thai people and farang. The old system is not the right way.' " His patter flows like that in a Jackie Chan movie. In the past, some crimes have been dealt with more vigorously than others, he concedes. "I have been told by the big boss that every new case on Samui is important. But farangs are to get special attention."

We mention Perkins, who could get no police attention, and MacDonald, who got too much. "Tell them to call me. Happy to talk. I sort things out." The colonel's mobile phone rings. We hear an irate voice shouting on the other end of the line. The colonel is ostentatiously polite. As the voice on the other end gets louder, the colonel's smile vanishes. "You talk to me like hel_l, man," he yells into the handset. "I am not servant." He flings the phone into a drawer. "Italian. Complains at the noise on Chaweng beach. If you want quiet, move to the jungle."

The colonel composes himself. Can we talk about some other cases? We ask about Corrie Ann Holt. The 18-year-old student nurse from Cumbria says she was drugged and carried from the Green Mango Bar, in Chaweng, by two men who raped her on the beach in the early hours of January 21. "Man, I've been working like a dog. Holt was my first case, 4am the day I arrived on the island. I went to her and brought her here. But she drunk, man. She could not speak. They come here. They party. Fall in love. And come to me when it go wrong."

We tell the colonel that in an interview with a British newspaper, Holt waived her right to anonymity to accuse the police of trying to persuade her to drop her case. The colonel is outraged. She said her drink was spiked, and there is reportedly CCTV footage from the Green Mango Bar showing Holt being carried out by two men, we point out. Has he been sent to Samui with orders to downplay crimes against tourists? "Hey, I'm losing my mind," he says by way of reply. "I have headache. Many crimes to solve. I've a corpse lying on the beach right now." We're startled. A 27-year-old man from Finland has just been discovered outside the Chaweng House Hotel, naked, with his right wrist slit. "Just another suicide," the colonel says with certainty.

If Colonel Chakkrit Srisuwan is serious about understanding what's happening on Koh Samui, he will have to get close to the old order that runs the island. Families control almost everything here and among the most influential are the Poonsawats, a tight-knit clan with relatives spread across the island. Khomsan Poonsawat runs the Muay Thai Boxing Stadium, at Chaweng resort. When we arrive, he is getting ready for a fight, the knock-out Palangchai Superbout, "the world's most devastating martial art". As the first bout gets under way between two greased-up fighters, blood and sweat rains down and the spectators erupt.

A champion is declared, a fist-full of envelopes crammed with money is distributed and we approach the man in black. Khomsan is the third of four brothers who, we have been told, between them control a sizeable share of the Thai-owned businesses on Koh Samui. Khomsan gestures for us to sit beside him. As a steady stream of Samui hard-men get on their knees before him, we ask if the Poonsawat family is happy with the transformation of the island.

He roars: "We made the transformation. So you asking me if I like what we do? We can't worry about there being too much business. Because we like too much business."

From an early age Khomsan and his brothers set their sights higher than picking coconuts. "We noticed western backpackers arriving on the island," he says. "We opened a screen-printing shop, making T-shirts." They moved into running beach raves in the 80s and 90s, attracting an underground following among travellers and clubbers. Eventually the Poonsawat brothers saved enough money to build one of the first tourist resorts on Chaweng beach. They began to buy land from other Samui families. "We have the shooting range. Shops. Three nightclubs. My brother does all-night Escape parties. Now we go upmarket. Opening spas."

Does the family have a problem with foreign investors coming here? He smiles. "I understand how things work. Westerners need help. We can work together." Is it true that a local mafia runs everything on the island? "What is mafia?" he asks. "Family. That's all. You see everything here as chaos and ugly. But I love the downtown. If you don't like, just go somewhere else. We do not want anything to change. No need. We do not need more police, lawyer or busybodies from Bangkok. Money and control do not go together."

Outside, on Chaweng strip, it's business as normal. There are no police to be seen and who among the shoppers and barhoppers knows that, on average, every month on this seemingly peaceful and tiny island there are three murders, three rapes and at least eight violent assaults? Loud-speaker trucks advertise the night's entertainment: "Foam Party. Strongbow 150 baht (£2.20). Ladeees free." Farangs come out of bars and climb on to hired scooters. Down a dark side alley, touts lunge and catcall while behind them boy-girls and girl-boys swing lazily around greasy poles. Down on the beach, Thanawat Chotchuang, of the Samui Rescue Service, is heaving the Finnish suicide case off the beach and into his body wagon.

Thirty years ago Chaweng was a strip of coconut plantation fringing a white sand beach that stretched for miles. When westerners first discovered Samui in the mid-1970s, they came by boat and ate freshly-caught fish, which they grilled on the beach. Most left again at the end of the day. There was nowhere to stay. By the time island families such as the Poonsawats began constructing bamboo bungalows for backpackers in the early 1980s, Samui was best known as a stopping off point for the Full Moon parties on the neighbouring island of Koh Phangan. But after Bangkok Airways built Samui's airport in 1989, family resorts began to displace the 100-baht-a-night backpackers' lodgings.

The island's transformation into a full-scale international destination came in the late 1990s, when the development of massive hotels and spas began - largely built on other people's bad luck. A series of events across south-east Asia - burning rain forests, student riots and the toppling of President Suharto in Indonesia, the downing of a jet over northern Sumatra with the death of 234 passengers - made the region seem an unappealing destination to western holiday-makers.

Thailand seized its opportunity, launching the "Amazing Thailand" campaign on January 1 1998. A remarkably frank report on sustainable tourism for the Thai government proposed that Thailand exploit its neighbours' misfortunes and highlight how inexpensive and safe it was by comparison. The results outstripped all expectations, with international tourist arrivals increasing by 185% and spending growing by 503%. Tourism became Thailand's top foreign exchange earner, soon worth £18bn a year. And on Koh Samui profits leapt by 40%. The results of uncontrolled development at breakneck speed were disastrous for the island's natural environment and marine life. Coconuts from local plantations are now infected with red weevil, and seafood has to be imported.

Samui's future is in the hands of its new chief district officer, Decha Kungsanun, a man appointed by Bangkok, known locally as "the bulldozer". "I was shocked when I arrived," he tells us. "Crime, violence, slums, building regulations flouted, vulgar tourists, brusque Thais. The death of Horton was an embarrassment and really not a surprise. The men who did it were not from Samui. But they saw Samui as a honeypot - with no laws and morality. They would never have dared swim into a Thai village and do the same."

A lack of leadership, he continues, allowed a local mafia to run things. He was also surprised by how tourists behaved: "We allowed them to do things they would never dare do at home. A lack of respect developed on both sides." The rift between Thais and westerners is exacerbated, he says, by foreigners owning so much of Samui. "There is huge resentment among Thais that so much money is made here but much of it leaves the island."

Farang businessmen are everywhere on Koh Samui. Their faces hang from huge hoardings at traffic junctions. Their names are above bars and restaurants. They produce a library of property journals and run a plethora of charitable organisations. But it is hard to find a single foreign investor who wants to talk about crime or the embitterment of local people. Instead, the topic is how Samui is "going upmarket".

Paul Watson, licensee of Tropical Murphy's, on Chaweng, and president of the Samui Rotary Club, maintains that the murder of Katherine Horton and the Corrie Ann Holt rape were isolated incidents, blown out of proportion by the press. "We've a new police chief who I hear is very good. The Thais will sort it out. Development, too. Samui is going upmarket and we need the services to go with that. People hated me for saying it but when Tesco opened here, it was what we needed. And McDonald's. There's nothing wrong with giving people what they want."

It is hard to see Samui as a safe investment. The delicate metronomic beat of the island, the laws and customs that enmeshed it, have been thrown off kilter by the boom. For foreign investors it's simply a gamble: whether the island will be able to pull through before it falls apart. For the islanders, it's a gamble and something much more fundamental.So far, the gamble has paid off for some of Samui's elite families. We are invited to a local wedding. The groom's family has hired a Sea Cat to ferry 400 guests to a neighbouring island. The bride is wearing a white silk dress, modelled on one she has seen in Vogue. The groom wears a cashmere suit. Through the crowd we spot the unmistakable profile of boxing promoter Khomsan Poonsawat. He winks. A vast seafront car park has been transformed into an open-air ballroom. The 100 tables are set with bottles of Johnny Walker and a legion of cooks prepares a 10-course feast.

On a table at the margins there is one group that is not drinking. There sit Colonel Chakkrit Srisuwan, the policeman brought in by Bangkok to overhaul the local force, new chief district officer Decha Kungsanun, sent in to impose order on chaos, and Sakchai Chaitawat, the outspoken newspaperman.

Phra Kru Santi Nontakun, abbot of the island's Laem Suan Naram temple, did not go to the wedding. He cannot abide the conspicuous consumption that has gripped the island of his birth. And yet his temple appears to reflect it. As the daylight fades, the temple's illuminations come on and lavish Parisian lamps cast a yellow glow on extravagant writhing nagas that protect a gigantic, garishly painted, multi-limbed Buddha.

"It's the only way to get people's attention," he says. "We need to shine more brightly than the neon lights of the bars. Lately I have been broadcasting on the radio, to reach out to everyone who has forgotten how to ask themselves, 'Where is your enough?' " His voice falls to a whisper: "I am afraid. The moral spirit of the island is already dying." The police recently had to break up a drunken knife fight between gangs of Thai and British residents in the temple yard. "I think the island is going to lose the bet with itself." He closes his eyes. "Samui people would eat their own hearts."

But it is hard to find a single foreign investor who wants to talk about crime or the embitterment of local people. Instead, the topic is how Samui is "going upmarket".

it is also hard to find any of the blinkered residents of samui who post on this forum to see the island as anything else other than a tropical paradise where joyous locals and grinning falangs exist in a state of beautiful understanding and harmonious co-existence.

many will slag me off for posting here accusing me of having had a bad experience there and scurrying away with my tail between my legs , an embittered and resentful grouch , posting negative exaggerations out of spite and they will laugh off the guardian report as sensationalist nonsense just as they laugh off any other reports that dont paint the picture they want to see.

(see batty boys rant above , more will come out of the woodwork soon )

there was even a thread here asking for positive comments about samui.

i think someone posted that there was good ice cream there before the thread died a mercifully quick death.

i still maintain that that island is choking to death in a cloud of poisonous greed , whether the new police chief Colonel Chakkrit "Serpicco" Srisuwan will control the cheating , corruption , crime and greed is another matter.

he will do well to heed the words of the islands godfathers.

"We do not need more police, lawyer or busybodies from Bangkok. Money and control do not go together."

Edited April 8, 2006 by taxexile

[Donz]

Samui is a great place for a holiday, but i wouldnt live there.

Phuket now that is a great place.

Ive never had any trouble on Samui apart from a big fat taxi driver at the airport trying to demand i go with him.

Although there has been a few murders and all that, i will still go there

[sbk]

The "ferry accident" for instance was a modified privately owned speedboat overloaded with drunk passengers hurtling back from the Full Moon Party at something like 3 am.

And in no way was Samui ever considered just a stop-off to Koh Phangan. By the time the movie "The Beach" came out, Samui was already going strong.

I, too, seriously doubt the Chief of Police would be taking calls from people complaining about the noise, esp on his mobile.

All in all, a rather sensationalistic story with alot of misinformation.

That said, Samui does have problems that desperately need to be resolved, Koh Phangan will be heading that way at this rate as well.

I doubt the new Amphur can solve all the problems for reasons we have discussed in previous threads: ie power is too decentralized, some things fall under the Provincial govt, some the local, or bor dor, transportation dept, etc etc.

[Prakanong2005]

"The "ferry accident" for instance was a modified privately owned speedboat overloaded with drunk passengers hurtling back from the Full Moon Party at something like 3 am.

And in no way was Samui ever considered just a stop-off to Koh Phangan. By the time the movie "The Beach" came out, Samui was already going strong."

Correct about that!

When I first went to Samui well over a decade ago i can remember all backpackers with only a couple of large hotels in Chawneg and most stayed on Samui to party rather than go to KPN.

I thought the main move to KPN really only began when Samui started really getting built up post 98/99????

[sbk]

I came in 1988 (don't do the math ), stayed in Samui first --found it to be quite busy then. Came onto Koh Phangan which did have tourists but wasn't super busy. Full Moon party has been going strong since about 1993 (started before that but didn't get big till then).

[HarryHerb]

Debating the article's veracity seems like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted (or whatever that expression is). The point is, that this story has already been opened on breakfast tables throughout the UK this morning and will no doubt be picked up by other media outlets, as it has all the right ingredients for a sensationalist story.

What harm has it done? Is it a self-fulfilling prophecy? i.e. by tarnishing the image of Samui - rightly or wrongly - as a holiday paradise, will the island then suffer from lack of tourists and self-destruct (assuming in-fighting increases as income decreases)?

And what are all you Samui lovers going to do about it? I suggest the letters page / comments board of the Guardian may be a good start (I also suggest you keep your language in check if you don't wished to classed as a lunatic ).

Personally I don't know the island well enough to make a judgment, but I know it enough to be interested in its plight. And I fear that this article may just be part of the general zeitgeist. The tide - even in this forum - certainly seems to be turning against Samui.

[Prakanong2005]

I do not think this particular article will lead to other media running a new set of sensationalist stories.

There were some at the time of the horton murder but they seem to have died down now.

The Granuiad is more likely to do a follow up story like this than most other UK papers (although I could see some reporter wantoing to pay for his holiday by a sensationalist article "6 months after the brutal slaying on the Paradise Murder Isle).

I do agree with you remark about the general zeitgeist - it used to be said the worst expats in Thailand were in Pattaya by many - those same guys who I have known 7/8 years in Bangkok say this about Samui now.

My wife wants to go there on holiday in 2 weeks time as she has never been. I would still take her but have to go to Singapore for a few days for work in the middle of the holiday so need to be closer to Bangkok.

It has changed a hel_l of a lot over the years but that is to be expected - does the good outweight the bad?

Currently the general opinion would seem to be no!

[Donz]

Probaly wont affect much, everyone knows the UK media, we even hear about how bad it is in australia.

[OlRedEyes]

The sad truth is that most of the farang with investments on Samui have no option but to defend the islands lost reputation of 'paradise' desperately. They have to work with the status quo, coz what chance do the few 'knights' from Bkk have of changing anything here. It will result in Chicago-style war, this time against law enforcement.

Meanwhile, their income and investments will be flushed down the toilet.

So each and every incident is defended with vague justifications. The bigger picture cannot be denied. How many times does one hear on this forum, 'Another Samui-bashing thread". I wonder why.

[Malice in Wonderland]

Personally I don't know the island well enough to make a judgment

If only the Guardian "Journalist" had the same level of honesty;....Regurgitating old news is one way of bagging a free holiday I suppose....

[Donz]

The sad truth is that most of the farang with investments on Samui have no option but to defend the islands lost reputation of 'paradise' desperately. They have to work with the status quo, coz what chance do the few 'knights' from Bkk have of changing anything here. It will result in Chicago-style war, this time against law enforcement.

Meanwhile, their income and investments will be flushed down the toilet.

So each and every incident is defended with vague justifications. The bigger picture cannot be denied. How many times does one hear on this forum, 'Another Samui-bashing thread". I wonder why.

Probaly because shit happends everywhere.

Alot of people talk about Samui like its the most dangerous place on earth. Alot of the Samui bashing thread are brought up with all the details. Although i prefer Phuket anyday, that place is really paradise to me

[sbk]

I remember when Pattaya was considered the he!! on earth for people; constant news reports about fighting, robbings, killings, mafia, pollution, etc etc. It was bash Pattaya time, now seems to be Samui.

If we are all honest, most tourist places have these kinds of problems. And anywhere you get massive profits to be had you have crime and greed. BTW Tax, don't feel sorry for the farang investors--people who invest are taking a chance and know it, feel sorry for the people who choose to call Samui home and have watched their island taken over by greed and vice.

Many of my husband's relatives live on Samui and none of them are involved in anything remotely related to mafia nor have they made massive fortunes off their land. They get by and must live with the high prices, crime, corruption and greed that outside "investors" have brought. Sure, some Samui people sold out, but certainly not all. And those are the ones who are watching the destruction of their community.

[LaoPo]

Since when is Saturday-news, news? (in this case The Guardian).

Negative and sensational 'news' especially in the UK, sells... and is 'food' for negative posters.

Life goes on, as well as tourism to Thailand.

LaoPo

[taxexile]

And those are the ones who are watching the destruction of their community.

and thats what is so sad about it all.

how the average person , not motivated by greed or driven by aggression , is suffering at the hands of vested interests who refuse to bow to any controls , controls that would benefit the community at large , both local and foriegn , and just steamroller the pursuit of their own agenda crushing anybody or anything that gets in their way.

its nasty. samui has become nasty.

[LaoPo]

And those are the ones who are watching the destruction of their community.

and thats what is so sad about it all.

how the average person , not motivated by greed or driven by aggression , is suffering at the hands of vested interests who refuse to bow to any controls , controls that would benefit the community at large , both local and foriegn , and just steamroller the pursuit of their own agenda crushing anybody or anything that gets in their way.

its nasty. samui has become nasty.

I'm happy for you Taxexile, that there's no greed in Hua Hin with their skyscrapers and developments....

LaoPo

[sbk]

Like I said,tax, I think you will find it anywhere there is money to be made.

Unfortunately it seems to be human nature to be greedy

[taxexile]

I'm happy for you Taxexile, that there's no greed in Hua Hin with their skyscrapers and developments

is that the best you can come up with ?? an attack on h-h , rather than answering the points raised in the article and these posts.

[Prakanong2005]

Like I said,tax, I think you will find it anywhere there is money to be made.

Unfortunately it seems to be human nature to be greedy

I agree and that is why in mature economies / democracy's there is the rule of law and regulation of certain types of industry together with environmental controls and consumer / public protection.

In Samui (and elsewhere in Thailand) this is very weak or non-existant and the law of the jungle exists, the strongest economically or by force get their way and everybody else will be shit on if it is against their interests.

Farangs coming into this scenario would be well advised to do their due diligence and enter into the fray with open eyes and not whinge if their fingers are burned right off.

Its the locals without power that I feel sorry for - they are trampled underfoot in their own community.

[Jersey_UK]

In Samui (and elsewhere in Thailand) this is very weak or non-existant and the law of the jungle exists, the strongest economically or by force get their way and everybody else will be shit on if it is against their interests.

Farangs coming into this scenario would be well advised to do their due diligence and enter into the fray with open eyes and not whinge if their fingers are burned right off.

Its the locals without power that I feel sorry for - they are trampled underfoot in their own community.

Folk forget that Samuii is an ISLAND, this breeds a certain mindset, not all is good - plus if you do cross a line it ain't so easy to run away..............

I have been to Samuii (used to spend a lot of time their), but not for a few years. I would say great for a 2 week holiday, but I would not want to invest money their.......or even be known to have a few quid tucked away.

But each to their own.

[Prakanong2005]

In Samui (and elsewhere in Thailand) this is very weak or non-existant and the law of the jungle exists, the strongest economically or by force get their way and everybody else will be shit on if it is against their interests.

Farangs coming into this scenario would be well advised to do their due diligence and enter into the fray with open eyes and not whinge if their fingers are burned right off.

Its the locals without power that I feel sorry for - they are trampled underfoot in their own community.

Folk forget that Samuii is an ISLAND, this breeds a certain mindset, not all is good - plus if you do cross a line it ain't so easy to run away..............

I have been to Samuii (used to spend a lot of time their), but not for a few years. I would say great for a 2 week holiday, but I would not want to invest money their.......or even be known to have a few quid tucked away.

But each to their own.

Oh yes islands and small communities cut off geographically do have special identities - problem is the "World is now Flat" according to Friedman ;-)

[LaoPo]

I'm happy for you Taxexile, that there's no greed in Hua Hin with their skyscrapers and developments

is that the best you can come up with ?? an attack on h-h , rather than answering the points raised in the article and these posts.

Attack....me ?

Don't you think you have been attacking and bashing enough about Samui in numerous posts lately?

And why should I or anyone answer to points in another sensational article? I would think that more than enough has been said and written since the unfortunate 'Katherine Horton' tragedy and Samui in general.

Sadly enough it could have happened anywhere in Thailand, including Hua Hin, and as you know there have been many murders all over Thailand....as in the rest of the World, including your homecountry

I kindly suggest you stop your 'nasty' posts and enjoy your peaceful life where you are now.

LaoPo

[ourmanflint]

Hmmm.... well if it opens one tourists eyes to the reality that you have to take responsibilty for yourself when travelling in "paradise", then it id definitely a very good thing! Thailand isn't always the land of smiles as is often said and people do need to be more educated about the negative side of being in the islands.

[Pegasus]

All you Samuites may want to check this out, although it doesn't make for pleasant reading :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1748146,00.html

Me and my wife have been visiting Samui for the last 6 years but this year was a nightmare.

We arrived on samui on the 28th of Jan, we stay in Lamai close to Grand mother rocks, over the next week we made friends with a Thai lady who ran a riding school just past the fishing village and my wife made arrangements to go riding on Fri the 3rd of Feb but was throwing it down so she didn't go. The following Thur the 9th of Feb the lady turned up at the Blues Stop, a bar that we used to go in, she rides a chopper m/bike.

It was 11pm , at 11.30pm she asked my wife to go with her to see the horses, 1 hour at the most and my wife hadn't had a drink.

As they were leaving she passed my wife the remainder of her drink and said finish that, she was dropped off later that evening at 02.10am in what i can only describe as completely out of it!!

She slept for 17 hours and when she awoke the next day she had 2 horrendous burns on her legs off the bikes exhaust, and complained of being sore between her legs!!

It was 3 weeks later before she started to have recollections of that evening and she believes she was raped by 4 Thai men.

On the 15th of Feb we left Samui to go to Penang for a week, we arrived at Nathon and I had put my document bag in my rucksack to keep my hands free, on arrival at Nathon we were put on a coach to go to the other ferry about 5 miles away, when we got there I was waiting by the coach to retrieve my bag and the coach just drove on to the ferry, the baggage boy said no problem bags safe locked on coach.

Needless to say when we got to Surat Thani we had been robbed, passports,travelers cheques.cash, flight tickets home, driving license,Thai bank book etc.

Not to be recommended, a complete ball ache, it took 8 days to get knew travelers cheques, not the 24 hours as advertised. (American Express).

Also the Baht buses on Samui have hiked up the prices, they want 50 Baht to go half a K, and they are riding around empty, every one's walking.

Any one thinking of going to Samui for a paradise holiday think again, I never thought I would say it but you would be better off going to Pattaya.

Crime is on the increase in Samui, every day we heard of a tourist who had been robbed or had their bungalow or room broken into as said by Soph in an earlier post.

If tourist were to stay away for a couple of years maybe Samui would clean it's act up, clean the filthy beaches (Evan the beaches in Pattaya are cleaner than Samui) and repair the atrocious roads!!

A have been a frequent visitor to Thailand for the last 20 years and I always treat them with the upmost respect, I love Thailand, the people and the culture, but this year I am well xxxxxx off with Samui.

[taxexile]

I kindly suggest you stop your 'nasty' posts and enjoy your peaceful life where you are now.

thanks lao po , i am enjoying life at the moment and i also hope you are too.

but what is it that makes you so sensitive to any negative criticism about samui.

if you tally up all the posts , then so many more people seem to have had bad experiences there.

yes i know that bad things can happen anywhere and everywhere , i dont dispute that , but there seems to be so many more on samui.

you dont get this large volume of complaints about other places in thailand , you get the odd one , but not this constant stream of bad press that samui seems to attract at the moment.

it cant all be made up , my posts arent nasty , they just reflect the gut feelings i had when i lived there , and now , nearly a year after i left , those gut feelings are being articulated by dozens of others who have lived or visited the island.

many people love it there , but an awful lot dont , and you should not be afraid to hear their views.

the island is out of control , and the business people there are in a feeding frenzy , feeding voraciously off any non-islander who comes ashore there , aided and abetted by the authorities , and backed up by some of the more powerful families there.

socialogically it reminds me of one of those sink council estates in the uk .