90 Day Signing In

[Loaded]

Just returned from immigration 2000 baht lighter and stress levels very high.

Last friday (9th) I looked at my passport to check when I would need to go for a 90 day signing. The date was the 2nd June, no problem I thought as I was still within the 7 days either side they allow you, but 'ding' King's 60th so I thought office would be closed and I didn't go. I thought no problem as I would go Monday and explain.

First thing: i was fined 2000 baht because I was over the 7 days. They said the office had been open on the 9th. I had to go to an ATM, and they told me if I don't come back today and pay I would be committing a criminal offence, be arrested and fined 5000 baht.

Second thing: after paying I was told that now you can sign in during the 7 days preceeding the sign-in date, but 1 day over and you'll be hit with a 2000 baht fine.

I told them it would have been cheaper for me to actually have been here illegally with no visa at all for the 3 days (3 times 500 baht overstay) than to be here legally but forgetting to sign in.

Be warned

[lopburi3]

The 90 day address report has always been possible plus to minus 7 days of the date stamped. If you are 8 days late it is a 2,000 baht fine as you paid. If you are found out rather than report it can be a fine of 5,000 baht.

You say you were fined because over 7 days late but go on to say you would have to pay a fine if only one day late. Do you mean one day over the allowed 7 days or are you saying that now do not allow the 7 days late?

FYI: The Immigration web site says this as of 5 minutes ago

The notification must be made within 7 days before or after the period of 90 days expires.

[Geonoise]

Hi,

Where did this happen, Laos or Cambodian Border ?

Just curious.

[Loaded]

I was late I paid. Been late before and didn't have to pay.

It was explained to me that the 7 day rule only applies before the sign-in date now and you don't have 7 days anymore after the date.The website may have said that 5 mins ago but TIT, this doesn't mean it's up to date.

[Loaded]

Goenoise

Chiang Mai immi

[dave111223]

I dont understand what your complaining about? You were 8 days late, not 7, so pay up and go early next time

Somehow its their fault that you left it to the last minute and then showed up a day late?

[Phil Conners]

True but you have to admit the 90-day reporting rule is just plain stupid. There is not a single good reason to have it other than to inconvenience us and make sure we don't get too cushy here.

It's not a matter of having our valid address on record. Of course if you change address you should update it with Immigration, but having to go there every 3 months just to say, "yes, I'm still living on the same address" is just plain TIT.

Edited June 12, 2006 by madsere

[cathyy]

90 day reporting isn't that odd. I recall that it used to be required in the US for all aliens. There were big signs at all the Post Offices about it, which was where an alien had to register quarterly. It's a way to track the people who are in the country legally; the assumption would be that if you haven't reported (and shown your green card/visa) you are in the country illegally.

[Phil Conners]

That has got to be before 1980 when I was there, I didn't see any such signs.

If you are still on the address they already know where you are.

if you're not there and don't tell them where you have moved to they don't know where you are.

Explain to me how going to immigration every 90 days is going to help anything.

Edited June 12, 2006 by madsere

[cathyy]

That has got to be before 1980 when I was there, I didn't see any such signs.

Some heavy web-searching has few results. The reporting seems to have been annual, not quarterly, in January of every year. It was still going on in the 60s, when I recall seing the signs and TV commercials about it. It's not practiced any longer, but you can bet our current Congress would require it if they thought they could pass a bill for it. I haven't been able to find when it ended.

Frankly, it gives a country a reason to deport an undesirable who doesn't commit any obvious criminal offense. Failure to register==disrespect for the country in which one is residing, which simply isn't a quality Immigration officials like to see no matter what nation. There's a LOT of disrespect for Thai immigration laws by Western expats, as evidenced by all the "teachers" without work permits making a visa run every 90 days. I can see why they have cracked down, and frankly wish they were more strict.

[PeaceBlondie]

True but you have to admit the 90-day reporting rule is just plain stupid. There is not a single good reason to have it other than to inconvenience us and make sure we don't get too cushy here.

It's not a matter of having our valid address on record. Of course if you change address you should update it with Immigration, but having to go there every 3 months just to say, "yes, I'm still living on the same address" is just plain TIT.

Doesn't sound that stupid to me. They want to keep track of us. They have the right to know where we live. You can send it in by mail or courier. There are many offices where you can do it. Because it's their country. Because they can.

Yeah, I don't like it either, but I like brown-nosing those guys, an occasional wai and a smile does wonders. I was a bureaucrat for 22 years, and have a slight idea what they want.

Besides, it sure beats making visa runs, or living in a dicatorship or evil constitutional monarchy. Long live the King.

Not that I haven't had my share of run-ins with immigration in Mexico and Thailand......

[davethailand]

My lawyer called me last week and said "David go sign 90 day or tomorrow you pay 2000bht" a bit confused i looked at my passport (just got it back the day before with my new year visa) and it was to expire that day, "can do tomorrow?" I asked and he said "no, now change cannot be late".

No probs I just went down and did it.

All these complaints are tiresome, if they want to tell us how to do thing or we'll be fined then so be it, It is'nt really that much of a hardship to goto immigration and sign a bit of paper. I also understand why they insist we do this so as they can keep track of where we are and our visa status's.

FOLLOW THE RULES, I would have also slipped up if he had'nt of called me.

[taxexile]

follow the rules , yes.

but when they change the rules ( move the goalposts just to keep it topical ) it would be nice of them to inform us.

now we dont have 7 days leeway after the date.

they have all our addresses , why didnt they do the right thing and either send us a notification of the change , or publicise the change.

respect and fair play work in both directions.

and they wonder why they have such a bad reputation.

[samran]

I reckon that Thailand, like Honkers, should issue temp ID card for work permit holders and those allowed to stay in Thailand for more than 90 days, eg on marriage visas. Make it a different colour or something.

It would be alot easier, and less burecratic way of organising these things.

[Old Geezer]

I reckon that Thailand, like Honkers, should issue temp ID card for work permit holders and those allowed to stay in Thailand for more than 90 days, eg on marriage visas. Make it a different colour or something.

It would be a lot easier, and less burecratic way of organising these things.

And for that very reason...it will NEVER happen in LoS! ...O.G.

[PeaceBlondie]

Maybe I don't understand. It's a 90 day reporting rule, correct? Not a 97 day rule? If they give you some leeway, isn't that completely at their discretion? Another term for it is "grace period," and grace is defined as an undeserved favor given by the authority in charge.

When I worked at the IRS, our grace periods and minimal fines were hidden in the secret Law Enforcement Manual (LEM), and we couldn't tell people what the leeways were. For example, June 15 should be the deadline for US citizens to file their tax returns if they live abroad. I know what the grace period was in 1996, but I ain't gonna guess and take a chance.

Remember: that's 90 calendar days, not three months. And if there are four days of holidays, it isn't a 94 day reporting period.

I hate to sound like a schoolmarm or pedant, but once you've gone over a limit or broken a law, they have the upper hand.

Since you mentioned it, let me look in my passport. The kind gentleman has stamped, "Return to our office by July 8." That was on 10th of April, so yes, 90 days. That's fine, except that I'll be in Chiang Mai at new address by June 25. Should my first visit that week be to Immigration in CMaito register my change of address, rather than waiting until 8 July? Or, should I notify my local office here in Hua Hin that I'm leaving?

[billd766]

Perhaps I am a little bit simple.

I am living in a country which is not the country of my birth as a guest of that country.

Granted I am married to a citizen of that country called Thailand and we have a child together.

If there is a rule which says I must report every 90 days I mark on a calendar day 83 in BIG RED NUMBERS. I now know that I have 7 days to report in so I tell my wife I am off to BKK for a couple of days to do my 90 day report and is there anything she would like me to bring back.

I also check that there are no holidays or weekends in the way and off I go.

It is not rocket science and I figure if people are bright enough to use a computer and emails etc they can read a calendar and report in the correct time period.

If it is beyond your comprehension then get a friend to remind you or go back to school and learn to count from 1 to 83, but whatever don't bitch about it because you are late and you get fined. It can only be your fault.

I know this from experience as it happened to me, once only, and guess what, I learned my lesson the hard way.

[Noel]

I personally now always report on or before the due date; I do not see the point of reporting late, just because it was allowed, although that was not always my thinking in such matters.

Some years ago, if your permission to stay date fell on a weekend, it was perfectly acceptable to report on the Monday to apply for an extension.

I recall when that practice changed, much to my chagrin...

I turned up on a Monday at the Pattaya Immigration Office, my permission to stay having expired on the Sunday. With some noticeable delight on the officer's face, I was told I had overstayed as "Bangkok change system".

I was then treated with disdain, being gruffly told to sit down and wait. This was at 10.00am: I sat there waiting all day. I periodically and politely asked officers as to what was happening, only to be told to sit down and wait.

At 4.30pm when the office closed, I was told to come back in the morning. I duly did so at 9.00 am the following day.

I then sat there again, finally being given my updated passport back after they came back from lunch at 1.00pm.

Was I angry? No, I was bloody seething...

However, at the end of the day getting visibly upset at such things is an exercise in futility and may actually add to the job satisfaction of the officers concerned.

That's just the way it can be sometimes, and any amount of complaining will not make a scrap of difference...

[eugengeri]

My lawyer called me last week and said "David go sign 90 day or tomorrow you pay 2000bht" a bit confused i looked at my passport (just got it back the day before with my new year visa) and it was to expire that day, "can do tomorrow?" I asked and he said "no, now change cannot be late".

No probs I just went down and did it.

All these complaints are tiresome, if they want to tell us how to do thing or we'll be fined then so be it, It is'nt really that much of a hardship to goto immigration and sign a bit of paper. I also understand why they insist we do this so as they can keep track of where we are and our visa status's.

FOLLOW THE RULES, I would have also slipped up if he had'nt of called me.

My stamp show me only that.

...AND COME FOR THE NEXT RENEWAL ON .....##.##.####.......

In my case in 89 days. Don't have experience - my first stamp.

[Noel]

My stamp show me only that.

...AND COME FOR THE NEXT RENEWAL ON .....##.##.####.......

In my case in 89 days. Don't have experience - my first stamp.

Errmmm, then my advice would be to report again on or before the date specified...

[lopburi3]

The issue is that they have told us to report plus to minus of a specific date and have that information posted but now seem to have changed the rules without any notice; but so far we have not heard of anyone being charged 2,000 baht for being within the 7 days after period and I do not believe we will for awhile. But now that I know I will make a point to arrive early this month. I do hope that they change the web site information soon.

One disadvantage is now there is less opportunity to keep your reporting in tune with your yearly visa extensions of stay - which they seemed to be trying to do last year.

I hope that this will become a computer operation at some point - it is a huge waste of resources for everyone to have to travel or obtain multi copies of the same paperwork every 90 days. Not to mention the huge extra workload for immigration.

[Brit Warrior]

Look, if you can't respect the laws of Thailand that is your fault. My trips to immigration are always pleasant because I respect the law. Simple.

[Khutan]

Well, I was supposed to report yesterday. So I assume I will get a fine. I am not sure what else I could have done, I was planning to go on friday, but I found out that was an "Informal" holiday.

What I calsulate it will be 400 B, ok even if its 2k, I will still pay it, simply as its my mistake.

[lopburi3]

I really don't believe you will be fined but let us know. It appears they are informing people of the new requirement as they report. I hope.

[Maestro]

The issue is that they have told us to report plus to minus of a specific date and have that information posted but now seem to have changed the rules without any notice; but so far we have not heard of anyone being charged 2,000 baht for being within the 7 days after period and I do not believe we will for awhile.

Can we exclude entirely the possibility that the original poster, Loaded, misunderstood or that the Immigration officer got it mixed up?

There is indeed a situation, when reporting by mail, where the report must arrive at Immigration not later than the date stamped in the last receipt, but Loaded infers that Immigration told him that this rule applies to reports made personally.

At any rate, I see a contradiction in Loaded’s original post about reporting within 7 days after the due date without being fined:

First thing: i was fined 2000 baht because I was over the 7 days...

Second thing: after paying I was told that now you can sign in during the 7 days preceeding the sign-in date, but 1 day over and you'll be hit with a 2000 baht fine.

First, Loaded says Immigration fined him because he reported more than 7 days late (presumably Immigration told him so), then he says that Immigration informed him that even one day late would result in a fine.

Anyone else doing his 90-day address report within 7 days after the due date in the coming days or weeks, please post in this thread whether you are made to pay the fine of 2,000 Baht. Of course, someone could call Suan Plu (phone 0-2287-3101-10) to ask what the current practice is, but reports of actual experience are much better.

---------------

Maestro

[lopburi3]

We have two reports so far. One from Chiang Mai and the second from Pattaya (which seems to have been prompted by a law firm getting the word). So far no report of anyone paying a fine for being less than 7 days after the 90 day date so await Khutan feedback and other reports.

[Khutan]

<snip> but reports of actual experience are much better.

I will tell you tomorrow

[Maestro]

Well, I was supposed to report yesterday. So I assume I will get a fine.

You may want to print out the information on the web site of the Immigration Bureau. Not that it will help if the internal rule has indeed changed, without updating the web site yet.

I also attach the information from the web site, in English and in Thai, for the record and for comparison in case the online information should change in future.

---------------

Maestro

90_day_report_regulation_EN.pdf

90_day_report_regulation_TH.pdf

[Noel]

If the policy really has changed, which although unlikely could be the case, I wonder if they will now take the trouble to ensure that you are not stamped to report on a Sunday, or any other day when they know the office will be closed?

Nah...

[Khutan]

<snip> but reports of actual experience are much better.

I will tell you tomorrow

Well its tomorrow, and I did my reporting in the mayhem in Suan Phlu. There were people turning up with bags of passports for the 90-day treatment.

So the queues were long and I really felt sorry for the ladies behind the 90 day reporting desk. I was also worried that I was going to pay as I saw the yellow book come out a few times and seee disappointed people walk off with a receipt in their hands, that looked like a police fine.

I did not get fined and my reporting day was Monday.

I did wear polite business attire, and I was also polite to the people behind the desk. I also told the lady I felt sorry as there were so many people there, and under all the pressure of the day she gave me a big smile and a "Mai Bpen Rai"

I sat down quietly and waited for my number to be called, rather than lean on the counter and pester the people.

My number got called, I smiled and nodded my head, she smiled and gave me my passport. I left straight after giving a polite thank-you.

So I was a few days late, but I turned up well dressed and I was polite. So if you ask why come well dressed, I learnt that from the one-stop service, where they actually have a sign near the door telling people to dress properly.