Benefits Of Permanent Residence

[Cannyscot]

I would like to thank Camerata for his very comprehensive posting on P.R. which I found most interesting. I would like to know from him what he feels are the positive benefits of P.R. as I must admit that the process seems to me to be quite daunting not to mention very expensive!!!

[number6]

I would like to thank Camerata for his very comprehensive posting on P.R. which I found most interesting. I would like to know from him what he feels are the positive benefits of P.R. as I must admit that the process seems to me to be quite daunting not to mention very expensive!!!

ID also be very interested - guess its you feel more secure than on retirement or dependent visa - becasue u dont need to renew every year and maybe dont worry that they will suddenly change and show all of us the door - but then ive tohught about it and come to conclusion that since they can revoke PR for someone at any time ??? is it that much more secure - also unless Thailand is going to take a huge step backwards i really dont see them stopping those of us on long term yearly visas staying provided you ahve money - that owuld really kill thialand economically - and if they did that Thailand would revert to something like Zimbabwe and who would really want to stay anyway then - im married to a Thai with a child here

[Noel]

As I do not have Permanent Residence status and doubt I ever will under the current policy as I do not work (and therefore am not seen to pay sufficient tax), my view may come across as a tad churlish.

That is not in fact the case, as should I believe I had a chance then I would apply.

However, at the end of the day I think PR really only gives the holder that 'feel good factor'.

A new regime could wipe away PR ststus at the stroke of a pen...

[Tywais]

As I do not have Permanent Residence status and doubt I ever will under the current policy as I do not work (and therefore am not seen to pay sufficient tax), my view may come across as a tad churlish.

That is not in fact the case, as should I believe I had a chance then I would apply.

However, at the end of the day I think PR really only gives the holder that 'feel good factor'.

A new regime could wipe away PR ststus at the stroke of a pen...

That same regime could also quadruple the monies requirement for retirement/marriage extensions again, a more likely scenario then wiping out PR status altogether. I prefer taking my chances with getting a PR then being priced out of Thailand.

[Noel]

As I do not have Permanent Residence status and doubt I ever will under the current policy as I do not work (and therefore am not seen to pay sufficient tax), my view may come across as a tad churlish.

That is not in fact the case, as should I believe I had a chance then I would apply.

However, at the end of the day I think PR really only gives the holder that 'feel good factor'.

A new regime could wipe away PR ststus at the stroke of a pen...

That same regime could also quadruple the monies requirement for retirement/marriage extensions again, a more likely scenario then wiping out PR status altogether. I prefer taking my chances with getting a PR then being priced out of Thailand.

That is fair comment and cannot be argued against, as we are in conjecture territory.

Much may depend on the perceived value to Thailand that the decision makers see in Permanent Residents.

If they did take such an aggressive stance and quadruple requirements for extensions, they could equally apply the same 'logic' for PR at the same time.

I know that some will claim that they could/would not do that retrospectively, but who really knows...?

[camerata]

ID also be very interested - guess its you feel more secure than on retirement or dependent visa - becasue u dont need to renew every year and maybe dont worry that they will suddenly change and show all of us the door

For me it is mainly the security. If I lose my job I don't have to leave the country within 7 days. I can take my time finding another one. When I retire (I don't have any pension) I don't have to worry about the 400,000 baht in the bank etc.

The cost is 100,000 baht if you are married to a Thai. It's a bit steep, but then you are set for life. The chances of PR being revoked are remote, although you can lose it by default if you are out of Thailand for longer than a year.

The disadvantage of PR is it's more expensive and more hassle to leave Thailand.

[camerata]

If they did take such an aggressive stance and quadruple requirements for extensions, they could equally apply the same 'logic' for PR at the same time.

But the beauty of PR is it's a one-time change of status. After you've got it, you're off the radar - your immigration status is never re-assessed again. It's a permit that allows you to live in Thailand, continuously, forever. If you never changed your address or job and never left Thailand, all you'd have to do is register with the local police every 5 years. It's a pity they don't give you a lifetime work permit too.

By contrast, with any type of "non-immigrant" visa your status is re-assessed each year. If they raise the bar you can suddenly find yourself not meeting the required standard. They can change the requirements for obtaining PR all they want, but that doesn't affect those who've already got it.

[p_brownstone]

As Camerata says, one benefit is that there are no further problems with Visas and possible – nay, certain! - future changes in requirements.

Also, there is no need to do the 90 day Reporting to confirm current address etc., admittedly a small benefit.

True, it is necessary to apply for a Re-entry Permit before leaving Thailand, but one can apply for Multiple Re-entry Permits so it’s not really a problem if one travels frequently. In my own case the “romance” of International Air travel has long since faded and I leave Thailand as little as possible; Email or Skype is usually sufficient for most purposes and if someone wants a face to face meeting they can ###### well come to me.

The only problem I used to have was when checking into a Hotel in Thailand – when they see a Farang guest arriving the Desk staff now always ask to see a Passport, a fairly recent innovation. I always carry my passport when traveling up-country in Thailand so this is not a problem – well, so I imagined.

The difficulty would arise when the Staff began to leaf through my Passport looking for the Departure section TM 47 Immigration Card, which, as a Permanent Resident, I never have of course. It used to be quite amusing to watch as the first cursory inspection never discovered the TM 47, a slower and more careful examination would follow and the then suspicious frown and question “why you no have Visa?” .

As I say, amusing the first few times but now I simply hand over my Residence Permit.

Patrick

//mod edit - arrival/departure card is TM.6 - lopburi3//

[p_brownstone]

Just read my above Post before signing off.

I can't beleive that this Sites' filters are set in such a way that the word "d a m n" is censored!

Amazing!

Patrick

[rishi]

Imagine yourself 89 years old, with a mechanical lung and kidney/liver machine. Your only wish in life is to live and eventually die peacefully in that remote mountain cottage of yours where you live happily with your loving wife, kids and nieces who take very good care of you.

Imagine the difference of not having to bother compared to - once a year - figure out how to attach all those life-mandatory machines to your wheelchair, getting that wheelchair into the car, out of the car and up the stairs to the immigration office - worried whether they'll accept the balance on your bank account or ask you to roll that wheelchair onto an outbound plane within a week.

[number6]

I travel a lot in thailand and do not have PR but am never asked for my passport anymore - my Thai wife simply registeres - noone ever questions it - maybe having kid with us helps - dont know

Ive been on 1yr visas for last 4-5 years - never any problem - but then ive always got plenty in bank - id probably go for PR if i could but think as said its not really any more secure

If they double amount you need it would not be a great problem for me - in my experiance you dont need to leave it at 400,000 or 800,000 all year just need to show that amount on renewal and i tihnk they look at reasonable spend. If they trebble it their over UK requirement so very unlikely

I have over 2 mo;;ion in Thai stocks here so guess if it comes to it i would just sell so have right amount in bank for renewal and then buy back

I really dont tihnk they will be crazy and make it so difficult that many could not manage ok - those with limited means etc would be caught but ive said it before i dont tihnk they have any right to expect ot be allowed to stay here cheap

I dont have a pension but really if you can ever imagine you cant find 15,000 pounds or $ 25,000 sorry i really tihnk you need to rethink and go back home - you cant live ex pat life properly if thats a problem

waiting for torrent of arguments against

[rishi]

I dont have a pension but really if you can ever imagine you cant find 15,000 pounds or $ 25,000 sorry i really tihnk you need to rethink and go back home - you cant live ex pat life properly if thats a problem

Your horizon is a bit limited. What you say here probably makes good sense, when we're talking about people who have a choise of where to retire or only have spend a few "non-productive" years in Thailand. For those who have worked "long time" in Thailand, have made friends and family, have bought property, have provided well for their extended family, etc - and then retire ... the equations usually are quite different .... For one thing: they don't need money in the bank --- all their needs is taken care of by their extended family.

[number6]

Your horizon is a bit limited. What you say here probably makes good sense, when we're talking about people who have a choise of where to retire or only have spend a few "non-productive" years in Thailand. For those who have worked "long time" in Thailand, have made friends and family, have bought property, have provided well for their extended family, etc - and then retire ... the equations usually are quite different .... For one thing: they don't need money in the bank --- all their needs is taken care of by their extended family.

You may be right - ive lived here nearly 5 years - have a family - by that i mean a thai wife and child - im really happy if you go for extended family bit and it works - luckely my thai wife does not have an extended family or not much of one - to me it would be a nightmare having to think of all those - but each to their own - I dont want any extended family caring for me and dont wont to care for them so I make sure my wife is fine my child is fine and i have enough in bank - maybe selfish and to show im not that bad I did buy my wifes mum a house and shop but really only because i reckoned in end it would go to my daughter here - again luckely my Thai wife has a lot of western standards and also does not go along with extended family bit so good luck but i care for my own (i mean my immediate family) and help others if i can and feel they deserve it - i stick to my points were foreigners here and need to pay our way

[number6]

sorry off topic but 2 more things - yes u do need money in bank if you are on non PR status ans so u should and 2 - i also have quite a lot ofproperty here - 2 houses and 3 condos but i dont mind their for my thai wifes ecurity and our childs security in future - sorry houses of cource ar in wifes name ans so not mine - happy life

[CDB]

Could someone comment on these posible benefits:

(1) I read somewhere that dependants and family can also be on the PR permit. My father has lived in Thailand for a few years on a retirement visa. He lives near me but not in the same condo. Could he be transferred to my permit or make use of it somehow?

(2) There are conflicting statements as to when you can apply for Thai nationality. Some sites say ten years and some say five. But five or ten years from what?? Is it the length of time in Thailand or from date of receipt of the PR book? In my case I have lived here for 14 years and my application is in process.

(3) How about getting a mortgage from a local bank at local rates for a condo? I bought my first condo by bringing in money from overseas. I know I will need citizenship to be able to buy a house without the usual disadvanatges. I know I can get mortage from Bangkok Bank in Singapore, but it's expensive, over 10 years only and requires 30% up front. Can PR allow me to buy a condo just like a Thai person would?

And a separate question: I applied for PR last December 2005 and have done all the paperwork and interviews. When can I expect an answer? Does the fact that it's now mid-July mean I am less likely to be rejected? Does the current political stalemate mean that it's going to be a long wait (speculation or facts)?

[Heng]

Imagine yourself 89 years old, with a mechanical lung and kidney/liver machine. Your only wish in life is to live and eventually die peacefully in that remote mountain cottage of yours where you live happily with your loving wife, kids and nieces who take very good care of you.

Imagine the difference of not having to bother compared to - once a year - figure out how to attach all those life-mandatory machines to your wheelchair, getting that wheelchair into the car, out of the car and up the stairs to the immigration office - worried whether they'll accept the balance on your bank account or ask you to roll that wheelchair onto an outbound plane within a week.

(at the above example; not at folks in dire situations)

Even for folks in less serious condition, it still seems a bit cruel and unusual to make older expats (aged 60+) do the 'travel downtown / wait in line at Suan Phlu / border bounce' thing. If I had a choice between that and PR, I'd certainly opt for PR.

[samran]

Could someone comment on these posible benefits:

(1) I read somewhere that dependants and family can also be on the PR permit. My father has lived in Thailand for a few years on a retirement visa. He lives near me but not in the same condo. Could he be transferred to my permit or make use of it somehow?

Unlikely, though you may want to ask if there are any concessions available to people who you support.

(2) There are conflicting statements as to when you can apply for Thai nationality. Some sites say ten years and some say five. But five or ten years from what?? Is it the length of time in Thailand or from date of receipt of the PR book? In my case I have lived here for 14 years and my application is in process.

I think the discussion on this site seems to have agreed that 5 years is the go...from first being established as a PR. But to be honest, this is not something that many people have been through, so a definitive answer is hard to give.

(3) How about getting a mortgage from a local bank at local rates for a condo? I bought my first condo by bringing in money from overseas. I know I will need citizenship to be able to buy a house without the usual disadvanatges. I know I can get mortage from Bangkok Bank in Singapore, but it's expensive, over 10 years only and requires 30% up front. Can PR allow me to buy a condo just like a Thai person would?

Seems to be possible. I know someone who is going through the process. You have to be prepared to argue with the bank a little though, until you get to someone who knows the rules.

And a separate question: I applied for PR last December 2005 and have done all the paperwork and interviews. When can I expect an answer? Does the fact that it's now mid-July mean I am less likely to be rejected? Does the current political stalemate mean that it's going to be a long wait (speculation or facts)?

Read the top section of this forum in the 'sticky'. Camerata has posted an excellent rundown of his expereince, which gives a pretty good idea of the time line.

[camerata]

And a separate question: I applied for PR last December 2005 and have done all the paperwork and interviews. When can I expect an answer? Does the fact that it's now mid-July mean I am less likely to be rejected? Does the current political stalemate mean that it's going to be a long wait (speculation or facts)?

From what TV members have said in the past, it could take from nearly a year to two years. Most likely somewhere in between.

When I was getting my visa extension in early September, the officer first looked carefully down a long list of names, some of which had been crossed out. That suggests to me that some applicants had already been rejected.

I think there is a considerable delay while waiting for the Interior Minister to sign off on the successful applicants, so if he's busy or a new guy moves into the job it could take longer. On the other hand, the 2004 applicants were notified just after the dissolution of parliament this year.

BTW, you can ask for a 6-month extension instead of the 3-month extension they give you the second and subsequent times.

[Nawtilus]

REad through most posts and could not find out if you can own land under PR.

Somebody recently told me that you could, but they may be mixing up citizenship.

From what I have understood before, for me it seems a long road to travel for little benefit.

If I got it, I still would need a work permit if I wanted to do business, I would not have a Thai passport and I could still not own land. Is this correct ?

Another quickie, a lot of the info focused on the requirements and documents required for your tax payments and work permits etc etc. What if you do not pay tax and do not have a work permit, but live here on investments from outside Thailand ?

[ilyushin]

Permanent Residence Permit

(AKA Resident Visa & Permanent Visa)

This is the document you may be able to get that allows you to stay in Thailand permanently without the need for a Visa. It is also another step on the road to Citizenship, and a Thai Passport.

The Permanent Residence Permit (PRP) is only available in Bangkok, and should not be thought of as 'just another visa'.

Applications for the PRP are only permitted during one short period in the year (usually December). The committee consider applications for about 5 months, then you will be called forward for an interview. If you succeed you will be 'offered' the PRP some time later. Generally the whole process can take up to a year. Remember this is a privilege that the Thai government offers to only 100 people of each nationality each year. The qualifications are not easy, and include the following.

You must have completed 3 continuous years of non-immigrant 1 year extensions.

You must be able to show 3 years of Thai Tax Certificates (even if you are not working).

You will be allotted qualifying points accordingly if you:-

Invest in Thailand.

Have a business in Thailand.

Work in Thailand & qualify as an 'expert'.

Support a legal Thai spouse & family members.

Have a good Immigration history in Thailand.

Have spent a long time in Thailand.

Speak some Thai language - enough for a little simple conversation.

Have a clean criminal record both in and outside Thailand.

The application is around 7,600 baht (non refundable). If you are finally offered PRP there is a one-time fee of 191,400 baht (92,400 if legally married to a Thai). These are subject to confirmation.

The top 100 people (of each nationality) on the qualifying list will be considered.

You will still need to use an 'exit re-entry permit' when traveling outside Thailand - otherwise the PRP will be cancelled, but you will not need to renew the permit each year. You will still need to report to an Immigration Office each 90 days to confirm your address, but the days of the 'visa-run' will be over for you.

If you successfully obtain a PRP, you:-

Can buy a Condominium without proving the money came from abroad.

Can have your name included on property ownership papers.

Can obtain a 'work-permit' more easily (but you still need one!).

Improve your chance of obtaining a mortgage.

Can later apply for Citizenship.

May never leave Thailand, if this is your wish!

[Tywais]

You must have completed 3 continuous years of non-immigrant 1 year extensions.

I forgot to mention those 3 years can not be based on retirement, they stopped that a few years ago.

[Vespa]

The disadvantage of PR is it's more expensive and more hassle to leave Thailand.

What do you mean by "more hassle to leave Thailand"

[skippybangkok]

Can have your name included on property ownership papers.

Thanks...can u clarify this one a bit more. Never heard of this, and what is it ?

[ilyushin]

Can have your name included on property ownership papers.

Thanks...can u clarify this one a bit more. Never heard of this, and what is it ?

Your name on the house registration.

[skippybangkok]

Hold on, i am a little confused now. I have the yellow house registration book before i even applied for the PR.

"name in house registration". I have a condo now, but I assume if I bought a house now, it would still have to be under the Mrs. name ?

Thanks for ur advice.

[rishi]

Not sure wether I've understood questions correctly ... but one thing stands "no foreigner can own land in Thailand" ... period ... with a PR, you're a foreigner with a PR ... (It's that simple).

[Maizefarmer]

Ilyushin - gives a fairly good description of what is required, both in terms of formalities and what is looked at - before PR is issued.

If you are going to apply on the basis of just because you can satify the formailities I can assure you, you will be low down on the list i.e. chances will be next to nothing - even if you are well within the quota (they do not fill the quotas every year).

But just to mark everyones card - the ability to speak, read and wite Thai is becoming more and more important every year, to the point that nearly all the successfull applicants are people who can read, write faiurly well (i.e. give them a newspaper artical and they will be able to read and understand what is been talked about) and talk - well enough to replay fluently to any question you are asked in your interview.

AS for citizenship - its 5 years a sit stands at the moment - and after nearly 20 years I still havent bothered and never will. I may when I have retired in about 10 -15 years time - but untill then, what will it offer me - nothing except reduced tax rates. I already have my 30baht hospital card, I am already on the social security system (in theory, though god only knows how I would go about claiming any benfit under it!!)

You still need a work permitt - yes, you certainly stil need to get a work permitt.

Having a Thai wife and kids big big plus points (and the longer you have been married the better).

Does it give dependants the right to move in with you from overseas - no it does not. But if you were married to a foreigner when applying for PR (and it would apply to a child as well) and she is living with you in Thailand - she would effectively have to apply with you i.e. you would both be applying. I only know of 2 foreingers who were married to women form their homeland, who have PR - and in those cases both the wives already had KhunYing status (oh yes, there are a few foreign Khunyings around) - and that was a mjor plus point in the application because you dont get awarded an honour like that unless you have been here a long time and your work has contributed to the benfit of Thailand and/or its people (comparable to the UK's honours system - like a "Baroness" or a "Lady").

To cut a long story short, yes you have to satisfy the requirements - which are pretty well outlined in postings above, but that in its self won't be enough nowadays.

They want to see you are serious about wanting to stay here longterm - and they know what to look for in assessing people and deciding who is serious, and who is not.

Good "indicators" are your own home - in the old days (about 10 years ago) you could get a mortgage as a foreigner on a work permitt but I am told thats not the case any more - though that tends to be a bank policy as opposed to been a Government policy - which still allows you to get a mortgage as a PR from the bank without showing the money came in from overseas.

Another good "indicator" is you own your own business - nearly ALL those granted PR are Thai business owners - and by that I mean, share holding with Thai's is fine. USA citizens have had a big plus point on this score because the Treaty of Amitese has allowed us to own our own business - effectively lock stock and barrell.

Just meeting the requirements I am afraid is no longer good enough - so many other other things they take into consideration now.

CDB - you applied in the Dec 2005 intake!! - you shoul dhave heard by now because I know 2 Americans who have heard - one in late August and one in mid - September (both successful).

Retiement is no reason - you wil not succed (in fact you cant apply) - they really want to see you playing some role in the country - and yes, long term charity workers, and long term "religous" (who can offer nothing financially are accepted as applicants and often do rather well as a group because of what they "offer" to those "in need" - although the long term "religous" likes the Carmelite Nuns in the Convent at Soi Convent (Bkk) do not take up PR but do spend there whole lives here.

I applied in the early 1990's. My first application was not successfull. I applied again in the mid 1990's and was then successful. Its changed a lot since then - then although the procedure tended to take longer , I think it was actually easier - although I still hads to submitt photos of all the rooms in my house - along with a photo of the bathroom and my clothes hanging in the bedroom cupboard ( iahve never been able to work out why that was required - does anyone know?).

Is it worth it - every one has their own circumstances and must decide for themselves - its impossible to tell. I'd say, ask yourself if you meet or the requirements, and then look at your situation: meaning what do you offer Thailand and what do you want to do in the future, both from a personal and profesional point of view - and if you conclude that PR is the best move for you - wait 3 - 5 years and ask yourself the same questions again, comparing the answers to what they were the first time round - and if they are all the same - then go for it. Chances are if you have met the requirements for 8 - 10 years (i.e. you can show consistancy and long term professional stability) you stand a good chance of been succesfull.

The rumour one occassionaly hears that they look at how much tax you contribute to state coffers (the more the better) is rubbish - they just want to see its consistantly in order (i.e. you pay your dues) - as everything else in your professional and personal life should also be.

Once you have it - you have it for life.

That means, you are not going to loose it if you get a criminal record - it would have to be a serious offence, not something like a pub fight (common assult), a car crash in which you were liable, drug taking (drug dealing - yup , I think they'd lock you up first though) Difficult to catorgorise, but it would have to be a fairly serious matter before they through the PR book at you.

Citizenship - well I just dont know.

I have never been to interested. My wife and kids have dual citizenship for one reason only - the ability to travel feely and easily at whenever they wsih without having to worry about visas. If it were not for that they would not have bothered to even consider it, and as a Thai passport offers NO travel benefit to someone who is on a European or USA passport, but only some tax savings, I have not been motivated to pursue it. I may though sometime in the future - perhaps when I retire - but to make such a drastic choice simply for limited financial gain - sorry, in my opinion thats not enough. The property "benefit" is also a on-issue - there ares loads of ways to safely invest in property in this country without having to resort to citizenship (all - be -it the procedures can be a pain to go through at the time).

I have tried not to concentrate here on the requirements as they are written down in black and white , but rather to give a "feel" to those who are interested - so long as you do in any event meet the requirements. But whatever you do, take the matter seriosuly and take a long hard look at your motives.

Any regrets - absolutely none at - zero regrets. Its a great place to live and I wouldnt give it up for anything.

Tim

[younghusband]

Ilyushin - gives a fairly good description of what is required, both in terms of formalities and what is looked at - before PR is issued.

If you are going to apply on the basis of just because you can satify the formailities I can assure you, you will be low down on the list i.e. chances will be next to nothing - even if you are well within the quota (they do not fill the quotas every year).

But just to mark everyones card - the ability to speak, read and wite Thai is becoming more and more important every year, to the point that nearly all the successfull applicants are people who can read, write faiurly well (i.e. give them a newspaper artical and they will be able to read and understand what is been talked about) and talk - well enough to replay fluently to any question you are asked in your interview.

AS for citizenship - its 5 years a sit stands at the moment - and after nearly 20 years I still havent bothered and never will. I may when I have retired in about 10 -15 years time - but untill then, what will it offer me - nothing except reduced tax rates. I already have my 30baht hospital card, I am already on the social security system (in theory, though god only knows how I would go about claiming any benfit under it!!)

You still need a work permitt - yes, you certainly stil need to get a work permitt.

Having a Thai wife and kids big big plus points (and the longer you have been married the better).

Does it give dependants the right to move in with you from overseas - no it does not. But if you were married to a foreigner when applying for PR (and it would apply to a child as well) and she is living with you in Thailand - she would effectively have to apply with you i.e. you would both be applying. I only know of 2 foreingers who were married to women form their homeland, who have PR - and in those cases both the wives already had KhunYing status (oh yes, there are a few foreign Khunyings around) - and that was a mjor plus point in the application because you dont get awarded an honour like that unless you have been here a long time and your work has contributed to the benfit of Thailand and/or its people (comparable to the UK's honours system - like a "Baroness" or a "Lady").

To cut a long story short, yes you have to satisfy the requirements - which are pretty well outlined in postings above, but that in its self won't be enough nowadays.

They want to see you are serious about wanting to stay here longterm - and they know what to look for in assessing people and deciding who is serious, and who is not.

Good "indicators" are your own home - in the old days (about 10 years ago) you could get a mortgage as a foreigner on a work permitt but I am told thats not the case any more - though that tends to be a bank policy as opposed to been a Government policy - which still allows you to get a mortgage as a PR from the bank without showing the money came in from overseas.

Another good "indicator" is you own your own business - nearly ALL those granted PR are Thai business owners - and by that I mean, share holding with Thai's is fine. USA citizens have had a big plus point on this score because the Treaty of Amitese has allowed us to own our own business - effectively lock stock and barrell.

Just meeting the requirements I am afraid is no longer good enough - so many other other things they take into consideration now.

CDB - you applied in the Dec 2005 intake!! - you shoul dhave heard by now because I know 2 Americans who have heard - one in late August and one in mid - September (both successful).

Retiement is no reason - you wil not succed (in fact you cant apply) - they really want to see you playing some role in the country - and yes, long term charity workers, and long term "religous" (who can offer nothing financially are accepted as applicants and often do rather well as a group because of what they "offer" to those "in need" - although the long term "religous" likes the Carmelite Nuns in the Convent at Soi Convent (Bkk) do not take up PR but do spend there whole lives here.

I applied in the early 1990's. My first application was not successfull. I applied again in the mid 1990's and was then successful. Its changed a lot since then - then although the procedure tended to take longer , I think it was actually easier - although I still hads to submitt photos of all the rooms in my house - along with a photo of the bathroom and my clothes hanging in the bedroom cupboard ( iahve never been able to work out why that was required - does anyone know?).

Is it worth it - every one has their own circumstances and must decide for themselves - its impossible to tell. I'd say, ask yourself if you meet or the requirements, and then look at your situation: meaning what do you offer Thailand and what do you want to do in the future, both from a personal and profesional point of view - and if you conclude that PR is the best move for you - wait 3 - 5 years and ask yourself the same questions again, comparing the answers to what they were the first time round - and if they are all the same - then go for it. Chances are if you have met the requirements for 8 - 10 years (i.e. you can show consistancy and long term professional stability) you stand a good chance of been succesfull.

The rumour one occassionaly hears that they look at how much tax you contribute to state coffers (the more the better) is rubbish - they just want to see its consistantly in order (i.e. you pay your dues) - as everything else in your professional and personal life should also be.

Once you have it - you have it for life.

That means, you are not going to loose it if you get a criminal record - it would have to be a serious offence, not something like a pub fight (common assult), a car crash in which you were liable, drug taking (drug dealing - yup , I think they'd lock you up first though) Difficult to catorgorise, but it would have to be a fairly serious matter before they through the PR book at you.

Citizenship - well I just dont know.

I have never been to interested. My wife and kids have dual citizenship for one reason only - the ability to travel feely and easily at whenever they wsih without having to worry about visas. If it were not for that they would not have bothered to even consider it, and as a Thai passport offers NO travel benefit to someone who is on a European or USA passport, but only some tax savings, I have not been motivated to pursue it. I may though sometime in the future - perhaps when I retire - but to make such a drastic choice simply for limited financial gain - sorry, in my opinion thats not enough. The property "benefit" is also a on-issue - there ares loads of ways to safely invest in property in this country without having to resort to citizenship (all - be -it the procedures can be a pain to go through at the time).

I have tried not to concentrate here on the requirements as they are written down in black and white , but rather to give a "feel" to those who are interested - so long as you do in any event meet the requirements. But whatever you do, take the matter seriosuly and take a long hard look at your motives.

Any regrets - absolutely none at - zero regrets. Its a great place to live and I wouldnt give it up for anything.

Tim

Some useful background but also some poor information.

1.Thai language ability.Not as described.All that's needed is simple speaking ability.

2.Having Thai wife and kids not "big big plus points".Can be a mild advantage but not that important.

3.Owning own home and business fairly neutral indicators not decisive as indicated in post.

An interesting though rambling and partly inaccurate contribution.Read it but my advice is to concentrate on the excellent Camerata analysis of PR.

4.Tax payment is important and is carefully scrutinised.

[skippybangkok]

Ilyushin - Waky Waky....its 12 noon.....

Interested in this home registration. My understanding is there is no home ownership.

[Nawtilus]

So what if you make no tax contribution ?

Anyway, dont think it suits my situation just yet, sounds like most of the things you still have to do, except leave the country every 90 days and I already dont do that.

Can someone tell me, that if you get citizenship and you get a passport etc, can you then own land....dont want to harp on this and I am just curious to it, I have various ways to own land securily and have no real problem in it, but interested to know if the citizen route allows this or not.