Open Letter To Parents

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, it's been awhile since I wrote a long, juicy topic so why start now?

I occasionally receive/see requests from Thai or farang parents of children living in Thailand who are interested in how to find a good EP/MEP (English Program, most classes taught in English) for their kids, since the true blue International schools are expensive (upwards of 400K/year or more), exclusive (some of them have limitations of the percentage of Thai students enrolled), and occasionally inappropriate (some Thai parents don't want their kids to be *that* westernised). Since there doesn't seem to be any kind of bottom-line standard for most public (and especially private) EP programs, it's largely up to market forces and the parents to force improvements. In this spirit, I offer the following letter.

Dear Parents,

Do you want to find a good EP for your kids? What should you do? What should you look for? What should you expect?

1. First of all, do this for your kids if you're going to do it. Don't do it for yourself, or for status for your family. That means that if you find there is no good EP option for your children, you will accept putting them into an all-Thai program. Don't go into a bad EP just for the sake of an EP.

2. It rarely works for you to start with kids who are not fluent or only semi-fluent at the Mattayom level. If you're going to do this, the best chance you have is to start when your kids are still in Prathom, preferably Prathom 1. If you can find an Anubarn with English-speaking teachers (even if they are not native speakers), go for it.

3. Most of the time, you get what THEY (the school administrators) pay for, not what you pay for. Before committing, demand to speak with the native English teachers and ask them what the salary range for teachers is at the school. The best-paid teachers will almost always- not always, but almost always- be the ones who survive at the best-paid jobs. Pretty good pay in Bangkok province starts at about 50K baht/month and up; outside Bangkok province about 40K and up. This is a better way of choosing quality teachers than asking about credentials, because credentials are easy to fake in Thailand and many schools don't care that much anyway. The best teachers, though, will in general gravitate to the best-paying jobs.

4. Good educational programs are well-administered. The easiest way for you to find problems in administration is again to talk to the teachers- even if they're not willing (or afraid) to tell you stories or details openly, you can at least find out what turnover is- the percent of teachers who stay from year to year (or even semester to semester). At a good school this turnover should be 5% or less, 10% at worse. More turnover than this over more than one year indicates serious problems with the school, whether they tell you the details or not.

5. As a result, it's hard to tell if a new program is well-administered or not because you won't be able to get any information about turnover. Avoid these new programs. Wait until they've been established at least 4-5 years, or have at least one class in each grade in which the program exists. Established programs also usually have more bugs worked out of the system and more resources already available.

6. Demand to see the school's EP classrooms, IT rooms, teacher's rooms, labs (if any) and library/book storage rooms. Good signs: large quantities of multiple copies of various textbooks at the right level published in native-English speaking countries (not including India or Singapore), various fiction and non-fiction books, computers and online resources; lab equipment that looks used/in use and not all broken. Bad signs: textbooks from India or Singapore, photocopied textbooks, no computers, no lab equipment, lab equipment gathering dust for 5 years.

7. If the school claims to have Internet access, check this. Demand to use the Internet on a computer in the classrooms, in the IT lab, in the teacher's room. Excuses or shenanigans would be bad signs. Ask what kind of access students have, and also how student access is limited to keep them out of trouble (away from games, adult sites, administrative networks, etc.)

8. Ask about grading policy. Does the school require padded grading levels or a certain percentage of level 4 grades? (hint: that's bad for your kids). Ask about discipline. Are misbehaving students allowed to remain in classes and disrupt them? (hint: this is also bad for your kids, even if the misbehaving students ARE your kids).

9. Is there a limit on class sizes? What is it? More than 30 is getting into no-go territory. The smaller the better.

10. If the program has been established for awhile, what kinds of universities (local, and foreign if any) have the graduates been getting into DIRECTLY FROM YOUR SCHOOL (don't take bragging about students who left the school to go to some other Matthayom 3 years before very seriously)? Are the teachers supportive in helping students enter these programs?

11. Check a few random operational items: Water/soap in the bathrooms, presence/quality of white boards and markers, operation of the elevator, lights, aircon (if any): do they all work? If not, this may be a sign that the school is on a tight fiscal budget and if problems arise they will not be willing to spend the necessary money to do things the right way.

12. What is the school's attitude towards new students? Are they fawning and sycophantic, or could they care less if one more child comes or not? It may sound bad, but the more positive sign for the school is the SECOND one- a fawning school needs students (and MONEY!); a school which could care less is one that a lot of people want to go to- perhaps for good reasons.

13. Money- some of what you pay for, you get. How much does it cost? Any decent program that is well-funded enough should be charging at *least* 120-150K a year, probably more. And at most popular schools there will usually be the expectation that you pay some sort of bribe money under the table- I'm sorry, I don't know enough about the typical system to give you advice in this area. Usually there will be an entrance test and the better your child does, the less this bribe will need to be.

14. If your child fails the entrance test, please DON'T send him into the EP program. Most EP programs won't admit your child failed a test. Ask for the average score of the group of applicants, and then your child's score. If your child is significantly below the average on this test, that's a good sign he's failed and will feel behind and alienated in the class. Don't put your child into that program and make him feel that way (See point #1).

15. Talk to the administrators and the teachers about past kids. Do they know some of them by name? Do they seem to care?

I can't give you a numeric score or ranking system based on these points, but a school program which does badly on half or more is probably not one you want your kids in. Good luck.

"Steven"

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Pretty good pay in Bangkok province starts at about 50K baht/month and up; outside Bangkok province about 40K and up.

I work in Chiang Mai and I sincerely doubt any EP is paying that. Too much competition for jobs has kept wages low. To the best of my knowledge there aren't any EP positions paying more than 35,000.

Very interesting post, by the way.

[a269652]

2. It rarely works for you to start with kids who are not fluent or only semi-fluent at the Mattayom level.

The very few MEP programmes I know of will have some sort of entrance test, just to ensure that the student is up to being taught in English. However, as TiT... money speaks on occasion.

3. Most of the time, you get what THEY (the school administrators) pay for, not what you pay for.

Agreed. The parents are almost completely ignorant of that fact. But I've heard of some EP programmes being questioned very hard about their policies on employing non-native English teachers during PTA meetings.

Pretty good pay in Bangkok province starts at about 50K baht/month and up; outside Bangkok province about 40K and up.

I know a fair few people working in EP programmes in BKK, most are paid 35k. The lowest was being paid 30k, but that was for an Indian teaching science. The highest was paid 45k but he was an assistant DOS as well as a teacher, he was a Thai-American.

[Ijustwannateach]

Hey, guys, thanks for the comments. Actually there are a rare few EP programs spotted around here and there which will part with the salaries I quoted, and which are relatively good programs for the students too. But they are RARE... if that implies that good EP programs are rare, too, then if the shoe fits...

Please note that I am not saying that every teacher who will work for such a salary is a poor teacher. There are some very good teachers out there working for 35-40K (and even less) who are simply:

a. happy with their jobs/lives

b. truly dedicated to helping students who aren't quite as rich

c. inexperienced in what salaries are available elsewhere or paying their dues to make connections

But what I am saying is that it's unlikely that the MAJORITY of teachers in an individual EP program fall into these three categories, and playing the odds parents should be concerned about such low pay. Good subject teachers will eventually get better pay than good TEFLers, simply from market effects.

"Steven"

[kenkannif]

Bottom line to me is....meet with the teachers that will be teaching your kid(s)....everything else is pretty much a moot point....no???

[Loaded]

Couldn't agree more.

But facilities should be to a standard you'd expect for the money you pay. Air-con and stuff.

Edited July 18, 2006 by Loaded

[PeaceBlondie]

Steven, thanks for the excellent work that went into that OP.

One more thing that Thai parents shouldn't need to be reminded of, except that they do need to be reminded: ask the parents in your community, who have had students attend there. Think about what your Thai neighbors really mean when they answer your questions. Know how to tell a Thai rumor from a Thai truth.

Agreeing with DanSaiKid: EP teachers in and around Chiang Mai probably don't make over 35K/month.

[Plus]

I don't think I'd dare to walk to the teacher's room and ask them about their salaries. If I was in their place I wouldn't answer.

Yes, we are customers and all but there's this thing called etiquette - people don't go sniffing around unless invited.

When we were chosing a program I just googled it up. I read one teachers blog, and we didn't even go to the school, and gave a miss to all their affiliates.

Kasetsart turned up some very nasty stuff from 1998 - now I rememebr that scandal clearly. Still, if we get a chance, we'll probably move the kid to Kaset. Difficult to decide, but their International Program that charges 200k has the shittiest website I've ever seen. Nothing on Bilingual Program.

Practically it's very difficult to follow your advice, Ijustwannateach. We won't chose a school miles away even if it's very good.

[Ijustwannateach]

PB,

Thanks- I always forget at least one thing, and you're almost always the one who thinks of it first. The school administrators would never want current and prospective parents talking, but if you can manage it that would be an invaluable way to get good information.

Plus,

Thanks for the frank response. Etiquette *is* important. It is so important that even Thai school administrators know how to use it, at least towards those who are paying the bills. The question is: is it more important to you than value for money when it comes to education for your children? You need the information I listed in my OP (and PB's, too), if you're going to have any chance of making a good decision about prospective EP enrollment for your children. In the West, you don't have to be quite so nosy because accreditation, contracts, and even fire codes are transparent and can more or less be taken for granted to the point that choice about private programs is more based on money and choice. Thai school administrators will often lie through their teeth- they're typically salesmen, not educators, remember- to get you to sign on. You will have to be more aggressive, or at least more sneaky, to be an informed consumer about schools here.

For example, here's an approach: find a foreign teacher, and say: "Oh, by the way, I have a friend visiting from the states, and he might be interested in a position here for awhile- do you mind if I ask what the starting wages are? How long do teachers usually stay?" These are slightly softer ways of getting the info I mentioned. Be creative!

You're on the right track, though- being in touch with the rumour mill, searching for school info on the internet, and so on. Remember to check teflwatch.org, and this site, and ask other parents what they think. Good luck!

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

One more thing: teacher salaries are NOT the only determining indicator of EP program quality, though they are an important one. I know at least 3-4 different EP programs in BKK which would pass the salary test I posed, without passing most of the rest of the points.

[Moebius87]

This post is a bit old now, but the points raised are still very relevant. I still have a couple of years before this really starts to become a real concern. I just wanted to say "thank you" for all the items here.

— Möe

[Ijustwannateach]

I think despite its age I could still agree with everything that everyone on this thread posted- but thanks for the kind words, Moebius, they encourage me to do more of these kinds of posts.

[Ijustwannateach]

Since there has been a resurgence of interest in enrolling children in EP programs in Bangkok, I'm bumping up this thread FYI.

"S"

[nanyang]

Since there has been a resurgence of interest in enrolling children in EP programs in Bangkok, I'm bumping up this thread FYI.

"S"

I teach at a school in Hua-Hin which has an EP programme - my salary is 42k.

Last year I taught at a similar school in Bangkok where my salary was 55k.

Whilst I have taught in other schools in Thailand with mini, micro etc.etc. English programmes they all suffer the same problem -no reinforcement.

Once the lesson in English, be it English Maths or Science, is concluded 98% of students revert to L1. Without any structured reinforcement of English the students will always 'speak' English stressing the final syllable.

With my eyes closed in England I could identify kids merely by listening to them.

Sadly in Thailand, with eyes closed, they, invariably, all sound the same - even 'luk kreungs'.

As a parent with two young daughters I have concluded that I will have to return to England to enable them to have a real education. I am not looking forward to that scenario one little bit but I have a responsibility to equip them with certain skills.

We all know the consequences of a poor education