Suvarnabhumi Airport Ordered To Improve Service

[george]

AOT ordered to improve services at Suvarnabhumi airport

BANGKOK: -- Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Pridiyathorn Devakula has ordered officials of Airports of Thailand (AOT) to improve services at Suvarnabhumi airport before thinking of building a third runway.

The order was made yesterday during a meeting with senior Transport Ministry and airport officials as Pridiyathorn was said to be not happy about the facilities available at the airport which has been officially opened late last month.

Chalor Kotcharut, acting Transport Ministry permanent secretary, said that his ministry would focus on improving services for passengers at the airport, considered by Pridiyathorn as substandard.

The deputy prime minister stressed that services must be improved first before construction of the third runway could proceed.

The opening of the airport was ordered by the previous government amid warnings that its facilities were not yet ready to offer standard services.

--TNA 2006-10-21

[bkkandrew]

AOT ordered to improve services at Suvarnabhumi airport

BANGKOK: -- Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Pridiyathorn Devakula has ordered officials of Airports of Thailand (AOT) to improve services at Suvarnabhumi airport before thinking of building a third runway.

The order was made yesterday during a meeting with senior Transport Ministry and airport officials as Pridiyathorn was said to be not happy about the facilities available at the airport which has been officially opened late last month.

Chalor Kotcharut, acting Transport Ministry permanent secretary, said that his ministry would focus on improving services for passengers at the airport, considered by Pridiyathorn as substandard.

The deputy prime minister stressed that services must be improved first before construction of the third runway could proceed.

The opening of the airport was ordered by the previous government amid warnings that its facilities were not yet ready to offer standard services.

--TNA 2006-10-21

I would have thought that actually decorating the interior airside would be another minimum requirement before letting them charge off and build more runways, buildings etc.

However we may be disappointed, in that I have been told by a contractor that it is now as it is to be forever - namely that it is considered "modern" and "trendy" to have exposed wiring, ducting etc. and have an overall steel and glass look.

Personally, I found the whole place to have a depressing feel to it, an unusual emotion to experience when returning to Thailand from the UK..

Edited October 21, 2006 by bkkandrew

[Spenthouse]

AOT ordered to improve services at Suvarnabhumi airport

or else?

[bkkandrew]

AOT ordered to improve services at Suvarnabhumi airport

or else?

er - it says - or else they are not allowed to expand...

[mrbojangles]

AOT ordered to improve services at Suvarnabhumi airport

or else?

er - it says - or else they are not allowed to expand...

And they better improve, BEFORE i land next sunday

[sriracha john]

Goes right along with what the airlines themselves were saying yesterday about the airport... They aren't happy with it at all:

Transport Minister hears international carriers' airport complaints

Published on Oct 21, 2006

International airlines have urged Airports of Thailand (AOT) and other state agencies to sort out a host of problems that need urgent attention at Suvarnabhumi Airport, especially as regards security, personal expenses and toilet facilities.

More than 10 airline executives spelled out their gripes to Tourism Minister Suvit Yodmani during his tour of the new facility yesterday.

Sam Lee, city station manager for Singapore Airlines, said AOT should provide more amenities for staff working at the airport, such as canteens, shuttle buses, parking lots as well as security.

"Many employees are going to work at night. They need safety while travelling," he said, adding that workers are also suffering from higher living costs since they moved out to the new airport.

Sarathool Monthienvichienchai, general manager for Thailand, Burma, Vietnam and Nepal at Northwest Airlines, said the public areas were filthy despite being looked after at all times. "I have noticed all the dirty places, from immigration to the gates, rest rooms and parking areas," he said.

Also, the number of restrooms cannot keep up with demand.

The lack of cleanliness at Suvarnabhumi is in stark contrast with its spick-and-span rivals in Singapore and Hong Kong, he added.

Patrick Yueng, regional manager of Cathay Pacific Airways, said the distance between all the gates and immigration made for a long trek for passengers. This might inconvenience travellers.

Having one terminal handling both domestic and international flights makes it difficult to find gates and catch connecting flights.

Chaiwat Jaiyavat, station manager for Austrian Airlines, said AOT must correct its signs and spelling of places and areas not only at the airport, but also along the way in and out of the airport.

"This problem could make tourists confused and get lost," he said.

An executive of Lufthansa Airlines said the airport must prepare more aircraft parking aprons, particularly for the super-jumbos that will be used in the near future.

An executive of China Airlines said city buses should reduce fares between the airport and downtown to help staff with commuting costs.

Suvit said the ministry would work with AOT to solve these problems within two weeks. "One thing we can do now is add 300 more toilets at the new airport."

The Nation

[Backpack_thailand]

I was there yesterday picking up family. This is the so called "largest passenger terminal in the world", and yet have you seen the Arrivals area - it's tiny!

It's absolute chaos as passengers are walking out to meet people in the smallest area imaginable. An absolutely ridiculous design.

Come back Don Muang, all is forgiven...!!!

[PanzerJohn]

Looks like something else we can thank Toxin for. No doubt he and his cronies have done well out it.

[Chang_paarp]

Suvit said the ministry would work with AOT to solve these problems within two weeks. "One thing we can do now is add 300 more toilets at the new airport."

300 toilet in 2 weeks?

That is a LOT of plumbing to do in 2 weeks.

Does it go under the new floors or are there other options?

[plachon]

Suvit said the ministry would work with AOT to solve these problems within two weeks. "One thing we can do now is add 300 more toilets at the new airport."

300 toilet in 2 weeks?

That is a LOT of plumbing to do in 2 weeks.

Does it go under the new floors or are there other options?

Plumbing? In 2 weeks all you're going to see are a line of portaloos lined up in front of the queues at immigration. It'll be like Glastonbury or FA Cup Final without the music and cheering. Bring a handy clothes peg for your nose folks!

[Plus]

When Bangkok Post reported on the same meeting with Pridiyatorn, it had this little paragraph

'None of the senior officials attending the meeting disagreed with M.R. Pridiyathorn, who is also finance minister, and they promised to quickly get rid of the problems."

No matter what, it's unmistakenly Thailand.

As for toilets - they are going to build outhouses:

"Fifty toilets will be added outside the airport building and 205 additional toilets will be built inside on the first, second and fourth floors, with some of them occupying areas now being used as the AoT offices..."

[yorkman]

Suvit said the ministry would work with AOT to solve these problems within two weeks. "One thing we can do now is add 300 more toilets at the new airport."

300 toilet in 2 weeks?

That is a LOT of plumbing to do in 2 weeks.

Does it go under the new floors or are there other options?

Plumbing? In 2 weeks all you're going to see are a line of portaloos lined up in front of the queues at immigration. It'll be like Glastonbury or FA Cup Final without the music and cheering. Bring a handy clothes peg for your nose folks!

Its no joke.. I landed there and after an 11 hour flight needed a quick one (and a sneeky ciggy).There was 3 toilets ..my bag took 90 minutes to arrive....but..a big but, its a very nice facilty when its complete. Give them credit people... I remember JFK when it opened..far far worse (still is now IMHO)

[Soju]

Having one terminal handling both domestic and international flights makes it difficult to find gates and catch connecting flights.

Ok, what am I missing here? For the life of me, I cannot see how this makes it difficult to find gates! The international and domestic gates are in totally different concourses, and have totally separate entrances where your boarding passes are checked to be sure you're in the right place. There is no way anyone could mx up international and domestic gates because one can't go between those concourses unless you pass through a specific checkpoint and have a valid boarding pass for the appropriate flight. Methinks whoever came up with this one is totally looney or else has never travelled out of the airport to make such a rediculous statement. And catching connecting flights is easier now that there isn't that long walk between domestic and international terminals.

[womble]

Can you believe there is no fire alarm system in the terminal at the moment. None at all!!!

If a fire broke out 1000's could die, a pilot friend told me this.

He also said security is extremely lax, he managed to walk into the central security control room without even boing in uniform or wearing ID, not that it should matter as he's a Pilot, not security personel.

He was extremely critical of this airport.

[AlexLah]

I am just thinking, what is or were the toughts of people involved in the design and designating

facilities. It was a German company right that designed the airport with lot's of experience.

Could it be that the person in charge does not like Thailand, due to Germany being the country with the highest number of Thai immigrants?

There must be a reason for all of this, I am sure.

Does anybody know the e-mail adress of the company that designed so we can ask a few questions?

[kamui]

I am just thinking, what is or were the toughts of people involved in the design and designating

facilities. It was a German company right that designed the airport with lot's of experience.

Could it be that the person in charge does not like Thailand, due to Germany being the country with the highest number of Thai immigrants?

There must be a reason for all of this, I am sure.

Does anybody know the e-mail adress of the company that designed so we can ask a few questions?

Just to avoid this kind of st*pid comments, two quotes from older posts from the board:

The airport was built by the architecture company Murphy/Jahn. The head of the company and main architect is the German born Helmut Jahn (the founder C.F. Murphy died 1985).

The company has decades of experience in building huge structures all over the world like the Sony Center on the Potsdamer Platz, Berlin and the One Liberty Place, the tallest building in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

For his buildings Helmut Jahn will probably never win the Pritzker Price (the highest architecture award), since his buildings mights be impressive and functional, but the design is usually following the boring and faceless "International Style".

An older statement on the S´airport from Murphy/Jahn website:

Based upon the masterplan and preliminary schematic design documents that have been already prepared, this concept emphasizes passenger circulation over aircraft circulation. Although the curbfront area is not capable of providing for the ultimate capacity of the site, leading to two separate entrances, it is the most compact terminal of those that we studied.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=86528

Actually I don't think that a company like Murphy/Jahn would miscalculate such basics like toilets and a much to small arrival hall.

I wonder that knowbody already asked who gained from this fundmental design flaws.

If I remember right King Power increased its retail space from the offical 20.000 square meters to 24,000 square meters without increasing its payment to AoT for the additional 20%!!! more space it has occupied illegally. A the same time King Power charges all retails for using the King Power outlets up to 20 per cent of their sales per month, which seems to be much more than at the old airport. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...78079&st=15

The material of the outer layer of the tensile fabric roof is a PTFE-clad glass-fibre, that is translucent. There is a centre layer (not visible) consisting of a steel cable net and rubber-mounted polycarbonate sheets. An inner layer of glass-fibre coated with a low-E aluminium powder and teflon completes the package. You can see the inverted white triangles on some of the Concourse in the 2Bangkok photos. This basically will shield the passengers from excessive heat and sound, with natural light being sufficient during daylight hours. Air conditioning will be minimal, the upper parts of the concourses may reach 65 degrees Celsius, but as they are 15-20 metres above the general public, it don't matter.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...11480&st=15

Weren't there some complaints about overheated upper floors? And how about some other comments about bad lightning? This might be a design flaw by Murphy/Jahn...

Edited October 22, 2006 by kamui

[nostrel]

maybe the design flaws came about because of the architects didnt want to cause loss of face by pointing out design flaws. so ,as we have seen before they generally go along with what they say so as not to cause bad vibes and cause loss of face to the thais.

[kamui]

Having a second thought about the toilet issue, I presume that this might not be King Power's fault, since the AOT has been ordered to provide its own facilities for the rest rooms...

Maybe some people which are/were involved in bigger construction projects could provide some background information how such kind of major mistakes could happen which were spotted immediately, even before the airport became fully operational. I mean this must have been a culmination of incompetence, disinterest, face saving of underlings and maybe corruption that this could happen.

Edited October 22, 2006 by kamui

[redwood13]

The architects are an American firm based in Chicago.

http://www.murphyjahn.com/intro.htm

AFAIK at some point the customer, in this case the Thai government, signed off on the plans as presented by the architects, paid them and then hired a general contractor to begin actual construction.

For example read this excerpt from

http://www.ita.doc.gov/doctm/thai-air.htm

"A U.S.-led consortium, Murphy/Jahn Tams ACT Associates (MJTA), hired in 1995 to design the passenger terminal, submitted a dramatic 550,000 square meter steel and glass structure designed by Helmut Jahn. While accepted by the New Bangkok International Airport Company (NBIA) Board, controversy has erupted as to whether the 42 billion baht budget (U.S.$ 1.2 billion) target for the passenger terminal and concourse can be met. As a result, the NBIA tender for the general contract to build the terminal is likely to seek bidders not only on the MJTA design, but also on an amended design intended to keep costs in line with the budget."

Note the words amended design and just imagine the opportunities that presents for all sort of "mischief".

If they want to eliminate toilets, change the HVAC specs, add shops to the arrival area, change the illlumination design or what ever, they can do it. If they want to go back to the architects and ask for design mods to meet budgetary demands they can do that, but they don't have to do so. And given the opportunities for additional corruption you can bet they didn't.

-redwood

[womble]

I would love to hear from the architects the reason why their designs have ended up producing an airport that has so many obvious design flaws.

I suspect their original idea if followed completely would have resulted in a fantastic airport, Singapore certainly is and never seems busy.

Thai's being Thai's would have changed many things thinking they were making changes for the better and probobally not have consulted with 'experts', or listened to them as they know better.

I think corruption, budget constraints and knowing better than the foriegners has led to a complete embaresment.

I'm shocked how bad this airport really is. From the outside it is impressive, but that's it, the rest is a bloody shambles!

[Greer]

I cant imagine a company with an international reputation, producing designs that do not meet or exceed accepted standards applicable to such buildings.

There are design requirements that come from the client, but if these seek to degrade facilities and safety standards below acceptable limits, it is usually the responsibility of the architect to override the client and design for the correct, legal standard.

I have been involved in many projects where we have often had to "fight" with the architect to get what we want or need, but in the end, public comfort and safety win out.

As for the idea that there is no fire alarm system in the airport, if true, I have no idea how the thing could be opened to the public - that is in direct conflict with safety regulations in Thailand and throughout the world. I find that hard to believe.

Maybe we need more feedback on this - as I am in KL at present, I will have a look when I go home in the next week or two and see for myself.

As for the rugged "modern" unfinished look - yes, I agree - it simply looks "unfinished" not nice.... but I see lots of places going for this look. I dont think it is something the public have ever wanted - rather a design style that is being foisted upon us by architects, builders and clients, who want to save money - black paint - or no paint - is a lot cheaper than a finished ceiling!

[PETERTHEEATER]

Personally, I found the whole place to have a depressing feel to it, an unusual emotion to experience when returning to Thailand from the UK..

I'm surprised. I find London Heathrow Airport to be the most temporary permanent airport. Always some new construction and re-routing of passengers going on. It's as if it will never be finished. Seemingly endless long distances to walk from the plane to arrivals. Difficult to use the passenger conveyors due to people stepping on and then standing instead of walking and blocking others from doing so.

[Pattaya_Fox]

It certainly seems a long hike to the baggage reclaim...but what the heck its good to stretch yer legs.

The baggage reclaim though I must add to the list of idiotic designs......the baggage comes down a steep incline ( steeper than I have seen at most aiports) and some of the items have been placed on plastic trays. The problem is that the distance from where the bags descend onto the carousel is too short and the bags are continually blocking the carousel with passengers having to release the tangles. The empty plastic trays spill off the carousel as they come down the steep ramp and fly off into the crowd of waiting passengers.

The toilet I eventually found by wandering to the back of the carousel area where it was discretely tucked away.

Having met my taxi driver at arrivals we tried both lifts to get to the car park above but they were full and after a few minutes of the lifts going up and down still full we decided that the only way to get to the carpark was to walk up a ramp with the baggage.

[womble]

Just come back from Bangkok, the Departures area was so busy getting around in the entrance area was difficult. The problem is the ticket offices, banks and hotel desk.

You could see the looks on peoples faces trying to pass each other with trolleys they were not impressed.

Two new things I noticed which show the corruption and monopolies within the airport. Firstly everything seems to be run by kings power, everything. Hotel sales desks with al the touts, taxi desks with more touts, duty free, restaurants, the lot!

Once again I went for a meal and this is what it cost. A plate of chicken and rice, a cup of tea, a bottle of water and two deserts - 580 baht!!!!

The water was what annoyed me the most, 75 baht, and guess what it said on the bottle, Kings Power water!!!!!! What is the mark up on that??? By the way, the same water was 50 baht two weeks ago........... Not happy!

something else I noticed. The trolleys in the duty free area are sub standard, it seems they have been made by someone who owns a stainless steel warehouse, they were not high quality trolleys as you would normally see in airports. I also noticed the knives and forks in the restaurant were solid stainless and again low quality.

I wonder who owns the stainless warehouse, and how much they were paid for the trolleys???

This airport is a F*&ck*ng joke and Kings power is an absolute disgrace. Not enough for them that they have the monoply on everthing being sold in the airport, they also have to grossly overcharge everyone who uses any of the services without having any choice whatsoever to go elsewhere.

I'm disgusted!!!!!!

[opothai]

one of the problems with construction in los is they now want predominantly thai management, who imho may well be qualified but are not experienced enough working on mega projects.

three or four years ago, a friend of mine was asked to go to bangkok as a senior planner on a major condo hotel complex.

first thing he finds is the shuttering and general structure had flown up, with not one core sample taken for inspection records, no mechanical, electrical or plumbing outlets in any of the concrete, so a diamond drilling company from the uk is empolyed for six months to drill the concrete through out the entire building, putting the constuction well behind schedule, where as they thought they were ahead of schedule.

now with the airport how did they plan the construction who was responsible, is any one accountable, and if the toilet scenario is true, then to install the correct amount of facilities i.e 250 more loo's, then they have a major construction issue in a working and operational mega structure, costing millions to correct.

maybe some scope for further linning of pockets

[dotcom]

Transport Minister hears international carriers' airport complaints

Published on Oct 21, 2006

More than 10 airline executives spelled out their gripes to Tourism Minister Suvit Yodmani during his tour of the new facility yesterday.

Also, the number of restrooms cannot keep up with demand.

Chaiwat Jaiyavat, station manager for Austrian Airlines, said AOT must correct its signs and spelling of places and areas not only at the airport, but also along the way in and out of the airport.

Suvit said the ministry would work with AOT to solve these problems within two weeks. "One thing we can do now is add 300 more toilets at the new airport."

The Nation

That sounds like a plan. Let's use tax payer money to build restrooms & that will free up AOT cash to buy more TV commercials touting the new world class airport.

Yes one set of dopes designed the airport. Another group of dopes approved the design.

The major criteria is getting kick-backs to the families of ministers. Also - when you retrofit things like bathrooms you can charge 50 times more then if they had been incorporated in the original design. With 30% of that being set aside as kick-backs. Some things never change.

[dotcom]

Can you believe there is no fire alarm system in the terminal at the moment. None at all!!!

If a fire broke out 1000's could die, a pilot friend told me this.

He also said security is extremely lax, he managed to walk into the central security control room without even boing in uniform or wearing ID, not that it should matter as he's a Pilot, not security personel.

He was extremely critical of this airport.

Mekong Kurt mentioned that he never heard any announcements over the PA system. THAT"S CUZ THERE IS NO PA SYSTEM!!!!!

One more tiny little item they "forgot". I doubt they wasted money on a fire FIGHTING equip either!!!

[bkkandrew]

Personally, I found the whole place to have a depressing feel to it, an unusual emotion to experience when returning to Thailand from the UK..

I'm surprised. I find London Heathrow Airport to be the most temporary permanent airport. Always some new construction and re-routing of passengers going on. It's as if it will never be finished. Seemingly endless long distances to walk from the plane to arrivals. Difficult to use the passenger conveyors due to people stepping on and then standing instead of walking and blocking others from doing so.

I agree that LHR T3 is a disgrace. I will be there in 20 hours!!

I have always said, what do the visitors think of this mess? (aestetics, rather than functionality).

To have a worse example in BKK (where style over substance is a national trait) is unbelieveable and shameful for the Thai people...

Edited October 25, 2006 by bkkandrew

[PhilHarries]

I agree that LHR T3 is a disgrace. I will be there in 20 hours!!

I have always said, what do the visitors think of this mess? (aestetics, rather than functionality).

To have a worse example in BKK (where style over substance is a national trait) is unbelieveable and shameful for the Thai people...

A bit much comparing Suvarnabhumi to LHR T3. Terminal three, previously the Oceanic Terminal, is a product of the nineteen fifty's. A bit shabby yes but anyone is allowed a few wrinkles once they pass 50 yo.

All this talk about the problems with Suvarnabhumi is starting to depress me. I'm booked to fly in there Dec 22 and I've yet to read any positive comments about it other than it's a nice modern airport. But even that is now being qualified, "It's a nice modern airport, BUT.........."

I know one thing though. I'll make bluddy sure I am the last one to use the bog on the plane before landing. Wonder if AirAsia could fit seat belts in the khazies?

[Spenthouse]

The problem is that the distance from where the bags descend onto the carousel is too short and the bags are continually blocking the carousel with passengers having to release the tangles. The empty plastic trays spill off the carousel as they come down the steep ramp and fly off into the crowd of waiting passengers.

hk airport baggage retrieval system has sensors which stop luggage from descending when there is no vacant slot on the carousel. guess someone here has a bought a new sports car (or two) instead of those sensors.