Thai Elections Likely To Be Delayed Until December 2007

[Jai Dee]

BANGKOK (XFN-ASIA) - Elections in Thailand are likely to be postponed until December 2007, two months later than the leaders of last month's coup had promised, according to a minister.

The long process of writing a new constitution will delay the polls, and an elected government is unlikely to take office until February 2008, said Thirapat Sereerangsan, minister to the prime minister's office.

'The constitution drafting is scheduled to finish by early November 2007, leaving 45 days for the new election to be held by December 15,' Thirapat said.

'The new parliament is expected to convene in February to name a prime minister, while the new government would be formed by February 28,' he told reporters.

Thirapat had said earlier in the week that the military government might remain in power longer than the one year promised by the generals.

Source: XFN-ASIA - 22 October 2006

[lukamar]

Thirapat had said earlier in the week that the military government might remain in power longer than the one year promised by the generals.

Why does that not surprise me or anyone else. A military, any military, is not a group to give up power easily. After all, they learn in military collage to gain ground, control power and don't ever give up your gains. Lets hope it does not come to the people having to wrench power from them in another May or October incident.

[salween]

If the constitution drafting is not finished until November 2007, don’t they first plan to organise a referendum on that document, then organise the general election. Maybe December 2007 is a bit too optimistic as well—and of course all this assumes the constitution passes the referendum. Regardless, they seem to be preparing people for delays.

[lannarebirth]

BANGKOK (XFN-ASIA) - Elections in Thailand are likely to be postponed until December 2007, two months later than the leaders of last month's coup had promised, according to a minister.

The long process of writing a new constitution will delay the polls, and an elected government is unlikely to take office until February 2008, said Thirapat Sereerangsan, minister to the prime minister's office.

'The constitution drafting is scheduled to finish by early November 2007, leaving 45 days for the new election to be held by December 15,' Thirapat said.

'The new parliament is expected to convene in February to name a prime minister, while the new government would be formed by February 28,' he told reporters.

Thirapat had said earlier in the week that the military government might remain in power longer than the one year promised by the generals.

Source: XFN-ASIA - 22 October 2006

That's got a ring of familiarity to it.

http://www.presstelegram.com/ci_4469869

[younghusband]

If the constitution drafting is not finished until November 2007, don’t they first plan to organise a referendum on that document, then organise the general election. Maybe December 2007 is a bit too optimistic as well—and of course all this assumes the constitution passes the referendum. Regardless, they seem to be preparing people for delays.

Don't be so cynical.It takes time to work out a constitution that will effectively disenfranchise the majority of the population without making it too obvious.

[jdinasia]

Thirapat had said earlier in the week that the military government might remain in power longer than the one year promised by the generals.

Why does that not surprise me or anyone else. A military, any military, is not a group to give up power easily. After all, they learn in military collage to gain ground, control power and don't ever give up your gains. Lets hope it does not come to the people having to wrench power from them in another May or October incident.

Whay doesn't surprise me is that some people that were big Thaksin supporters just don't see clearly what needs to be done ... and that doing it well will take time.

[ding]

That's very bad news. My initial hopes are fading now. Power tends to corrupt.

[bkkandrew]

That's very bad news. My initial hopes are fading now. Power tends to corrupt.

I am with you on that.. I worry how the next year or so will pan out..

[hanuman1]

That's very bad news. My initial hopes are fading now. Power tends to corrupt.

I am with you on that.. I worry how the next year or so will pan out..

I choose to think that they are actually trying to do something right by acknowledging the complexity of drawing up a new constitution and the time this will take, but the road to hel_l is paved with good intentions. Is it me or is it getting hotter around here these days?

H.

[Losangels]

That's very bad news. My initial hopes are fading now. Power tends to corrupt.

and you know what, absulute power currupts completely

[Meerkat]

Don't be so cynical.It takes time to work out a constitution that will effectively disenfranchise the majority of the population without making it too obvious.

Aye, agreed. Nicely phrased!

[PeaceBlondie]

How many dozens of times did the Thaksin administration blatantly lie that a problem would be solved overnight, or at the very longest, 90 days?

As they say everywhere in the world, "Thailand wasn't built in a day...."

I'm disappointed, but the writing of a national constitution is not something thrown together by ten expatriates in a farang pub, in an evening.

[cclub75]

I'm disappointed, but the writing of a national constitution is not something thrown together by ten expatriates in a farang pub, in an evening.

Actually, they have a good basis to start : the previous one.

So called, "the best constitution in the world" (a mix of french, US etc.). They were very proud of it.

And furthermore, they have experienced it. For a few years. So the flaws are well known.

This is why it's difficult to believe them on this "technicallity".

The real issue is : they need time to cool off the situation and try to disband the "Thaksin apparatus".

[ColPyat]

How many dozens of times did the Thaksin administration blatantly lie that a problem would be solved overnight, or at the very longest, 90 days?

As they say everywhere in the world, "Thailand wasn't built in a day...."

I'm disappointed, but the writing of a national constitution is not something thrown together by ten expatriates in a farang pub, in an evening.

Well, but the folks here in Thailand have now a bit of experience in constitution throwing together...eh...writing, it's the 16th or 17th constitution now, since 1932.

How long will this one now last? Any bets?

[jdinasia]

I'm disappointed, but the writing of a national constitution is not something thrown together by ten expatriates in a farang pub, in an evening.

Actually, they have a good basis to start : the previous one.

So called, "the best constitution in the world" (a mix of french, US etc.). They were very proud of it.

And furthermore, they have experienced it. For a few years. So the flaws are well known.

This is why it's difficult to believe them on this "technicallity".

The real issue is : they need time to cool off the situation and try to disband the "Thaksin apparatus".

The old constitution left us with a PM beyond censure ... failed elections ..... and a gov't with no checks and balances (in other words ....not a democracy!) We went from Feb until late Sept with no real gov't in place. It takes some time to recover/correct these issues

[ColPyat]

The old constitution left us with a PM beyond censure ... failed elections ..... and a gov't with no checks and balances (in other words ....not a democracy!)

That was not the old constitution, but that nobody on any side really cared much about what was written in the constitution.

And that attitutude will hardly change, whatever the contents of the new constitutiuon will be.

...same old, same old...

[Ijustwannateach]

One could argue that Thai status divisions are inherently barriers to what would normally be regarded as "democracy," and in a sense building a democracy is at odds with hierarchical societies.

It's hard to imagine how one would fix the old system to prevent another Thaksin-phenomenon. His sheer wealth made it possible for him to buy provinces, and there will be other wealthy people in politics. How can one insure that the corrupt are truly accountable for illegal electoral processes? I don't think there's any country, including my own, which has entirely answered this question.

"Steven"

[ColPyat]

One could argue that Thai status divisions are inherently barriers to what would normally be regarded as "democracy," and in a sense building a democracy is at odds with hierarchical societies.

It's hard to imagine how one would fix the old system to prevent another Thaksin-phenomenon. His sheer wealth made it possible for him to buy provinces, and there will be other wealthy people in politics. How can one insure that the corrupt are truly accountable for illegal electoral processes? I don't think there's any country, including my own, which has entirely answered this question.

"Steven"

Good question.

I believe it's more shades of grey than absolutes. Accountability, transperancy, and a society that has some form of (almost) equal opportunities will definately help keeping the balance. But that needs also a upper class in the hirarchy that allows people to decide for themselves for once, and learn from their own mistakes.

I believe we are far away from such a point in Thailand.

But on the positive side - people generally do want democracy, even and especially in the villages. That is already something.

[bkkandrew]

How many dozens of times did the Thaksin administration blatantly lie that a problem would be solved overnight, or at the very longest, 90 days?

As they say everywhere in the world, "Thailand wasn't built in a day...."

I'm disappointed, but the writing of a national constitution is not something thrown together by ten expatriates in a farang pub, in an evening.

Oh I don't know, a few mates and me have solved all the worlds problems down the pub before!

Made us all wonder why world peace and harmony didn't break out with the 15th pint!

On a serious note, however, the focus seems to be on the constitution, which is both the problem and the solution. Constitutions are only a successful apparatus when they stand the test of time, thats what they are for - to be omnipresent despite changes in political parties and figures. Constitutions that come and go are not treated seriously and ridden roughshod over - AKA Taxsin.

It is worth noting that the oldest democratic monarchy is the UK, which has never had a written constitution...

[ding]

I'm disappointed, but the writing of a national constitution is not something thrown together by ten expatriates in a farang pub, in an evening.

Actually, they have a good basis to start : the previous one.

So called, "the best constitution in the world" (a mix of french, US etc.). They were very proud of it.

And furthermore, they have experienced it. For a few years. So the flaws are well known.

This is why it's difficult to believe them on this "technicallity".

The real issue is : they need time to cool off the situation and try to disband the "Thaksin apparatus".

The old constitution left us with a PM beyond censure ... failed elections ..... and a gov't with no checks and balances (in other words ....not a democracy!) We went from Feb until late Sept with no real gov't in place. It takes some time to recover/correct these issues

Agreed JD.

If I recall, there were 8 constitutional convention sessions in the USA. 1874-1876, and an Anapolis session 10 years later covering commerce.

The Philidelphia convention lasted 4 months in the summer.

Still, it's not like Thailand didn't already have a country up and running -albeit headed for the ditch a bit.

You havta know that corporations (MNC's) are seducing anyone they can. Does anyone know how honest the folks involved are? All I know is what I've read and that looked fine.

[lukamar]

Constitutional changes were the talk of the country some months ago, some of you seem to have forgotten that. Some also forget that the government that should have been elected by now was to be an interim one so that needed changes could be made to the constitution.

There were holes in the previous constitution as there probably are in every countries, that"s not grounds to scrap it and start anew. It appears that the NAC wants to be entrenched in the new one and that"s sad for Thailand. Anyone can rob a bank at gunpoint but it doesn't make the money yours. I have not seen the government, that was put into power ,winning a single vote and until they do they may cling to power with guns and tanks but not with the support of the majority of Thai people at least in the north.

[hammered]

The UK as someone pointed out is the oldest democracy in the world still functioning. I wonder if their system of an elected lower house with an unelected upper house would actually be fitting for Thailand in its current state of democratic development. It seems to have served the Brits well over mny centuries.

It will, however, be interesting to see how the Thai people decide on all of this. Constitutions are a product of the tme they were written and as such need to be practically ammendable but not so easily that they are changed every week. That is a hard balance to achieve and one that few if any country has ever gotten right.

[slimdog]

Constitutions are a product of the tme they were written and as such need to be practically ammendable but not so easily that they are changed every week. That is a hard balance to achieve and one that few if any country has ever gotten right.

I think they got the balance about right in the previous constitution..

Amendment of the Constitution

Section 211.

An amendment of the Constitution may be made only under the rules and procedure as follows:

(1) a motion for amendment must be proposed either by the Council of Ministers or members of the House of Representatives of not less than one-third of the total number of existed members of the House of Representatives or members of the Senate and the House of Representatives of not less than one-third of the total number of existed members of both Houses.

The members of the House of Representatives may propose or jointly propose such motion only in accordance with the resolution of the political party to which they belong;

(2) a motion for amendment must be proposed in the form of a draft Constitution Amendment and the National Assembly shall consider it in three readings;

(3) the voting in the first reading for acceptance in principle shall be by roll call and opening voting and the amendment must be approved by the votes of not less than two- thirds of the total number of existed members of both Houses;

(4) the voting in the second reading for consideration section by section shall be decided by simple majority of votes;

(5) at the conclusion of the second reading, there shall be an intervening period of fifteen days after which the National Assembly shall proceed with its third reading;

(6) the voting in the third and final reading shall be by roll call and opening voting and the promulgation of its as the Constitution must be approved by the votes of more than one-half of the total number of existed members of both Houses;

(7) after the resolution has been passed in accordance with the above rules and procedure, the draft Constitution Amendment shall be presented to the King and section 93 and section 94 shall apply mutatis mutandis .

For reference Section 93 & 94 were:

Section 93. After a bill has been approved by the National Assembly, the Prime Minister shall present it to the King for singature within thirty days as from the date he receives such bill, and it shall come into force as an Act upon its publication in the Government Gazette.

Section 94. If the King refuses His assent to a bill and either returns it to the National Assembly or does not return it within ninety days, the National Assembly must re-deliberate such bill. If the National Assembly resolves to reaffirm the bill with the votes of not less than two-thirds of the total number of existed members of both Houses, the Prime Minister shall present such bill to the King for His signature once again. If the King does not sign and return the bill within thirty days, the Prime Minister shall cause the bill to be promulgated as an Act in the Government Gazette as if the King had singned it.

As you are aware Article 30 of the interim constitution bans current memebers of the National assembly from "Contesting an Election" for either the House of representatives or Senate, but there is absolutely nothing to stop them from being "Selected" for the Senate....

[lukamar]

I think they got the balance about right in the previous constitution..

I've read the "old" constitution many times and I know Thailand's much better than the Canadian counterpart. The problem is not in the constitution as such but in the entire Thai system and that includes the military.

There was nothing that the previous government did that the new Military controlled one has not done already. TRT subverted the constitution, the military scrapped it and the Constitutional Court. Which is worse? TRT was ripe with cronyism but so is the military and the government who have pushed their friends forward. Which is worse? TRT was corrupt but the most corrupt governments in Thai history have been run by the military. Which was worse? TRT, and everyone else, bought votes, the military stripped that from the populace who now do not get a vote. Which is worse? I don't see there is a lot of difference between rich Politicians and rich Generals. The rhetoric is different but the they appear to be exactly the same.

[chownah]

Lukamar is, of course, exactly correct.....there is a certain number of well connected rich and powerful people in Thailand and they run the show. They have their squabbles (Toxin was/is the focus of one of these squabbles) and these squabbles get settled one way or the other but I don't believe that a democratic vote has ever been the method for resolving any serious squabble. It appeared to me (whether rightly or wrongly) that the stability of the gov't's convened under the previous constitution that democracy was gaining a foothold here in Thailand but I see now that I was wrong....and so does everyone else in the world which perhaps explains the disappointment at this latest coup....not many have complaints about what the new gov't is doing but many are disappointed that it may have set the democratic impulses of the population back to square 1.

Chownah

[Jai Dee]

General Surayud promises to push for speedy election

Prime Minister Gen. Surayud Chualanont has affirmed to the Philippine President that he will try to solve political problems as soon as possible.

Speaking after his half-day visit to the Philippines, General Surayud said President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo was very concerned about political developments and the unrest in Thailand. He said he informed President Arroyo of the establishment of the National Legislative Assembly and the Constitutional Drafting Assembly, and the completion of the tasks by both forums will lead to the general elections.

The Prime Minister said he had expressed admiration towards the Philippine solution to the unrest made by Abu Sayyaf members and intended to study the Philippine lesson for adaptation to the problem in Thailand.

General Surayud indicated that he had earlier asked the Indonesian and Malaysian leaders to help convey the situation to other Muslim countries.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 24 October 2006

[jdinasia]

I think they got the balance about right in the previous constitution..

I've read the "old" constitution many times and I know Thailand's much better than the Canadian counterpart. The problem is not in the constitution as such but in the entire Thai system and that includes the military.

There was nothing that the previous government did that the new Military controlled one has not done already.yes there is TRT subverted the constitution, the military scrapped it and the Constitutional Court. Which is worse?Obviously it was far worse for elected officials to subvert it. The Junta that took over just acknowleged that their actions were extra-constitutional. TRT was ripe with cronyism but so is the military and the government who have pushed their friends forward. Which is worse?I am sorry ... we are all aware of the TRT issues ... could you please fill us in with cronyism now? No? Thought not! TRT was corrupt but the most corrupt governments in Thai history have been run by the military. Which was worse? The most corrupt were the military regimes? Far from it! TRT, and everyone else, bought votes, the military stripped that from the populace who now do not get a vote. Which is worse? A bought vote just isn't a vote at all ... being honest about it is far better. The next elections <in around a year> will likely be different! I don't see there is a lot of difference between rich Politicians and rich Generals. The rhetoric is different but the they appear to be exactly the same. Come to Thailand and compare! It will do you good!

The last Gov't was NOT a democratic one .... so whinging on that this one isn't is kinda silly! When the threat of a counter-coup is gone and there can be a run-up to real elections THEN we get to see if this was good or bad. Not until then!

note to mods .... in responding to this I just realized that Lukamar may have been in violation of the rules ... so will understand if this gets deleted

[cclub75]

The Prime Minister said he had expressed admiration towards the Philippine solution to the unrest made by Abu Sayyaf members and intended to study the Philippine lesson for adaptation to the problem in Thailand.

"solution to the unrest" ? Ah, really I can't get enough of thoses diplomatic speeches.

The PM should call the US commandos too. Even with them, hunting down the militants, Philippine has still problems of bombings.

Last one on 9 october : 2 bombs on the Island of Mindanoa : 6 deads and 30 wounded...

[chownah]

The UK as someone pointed out is the oldest democracy in the world still functioning. I wonder if their system of an elected lower house with an unelected upper house would actually be fitting for Thailand in its current state of democratic development. It seems to have served the Brits well over mny centuries.

It will, however, be interesting to see how the Thai people decide on all of this. Constitutions are a product of the tme they were written and as such need to be practically ammendable but not so easily that they are changed every week. That is a hard balance to achieve and one that few if any country has ever gotten right.

Actually the oldest still functioning democracy in the world is Switzerland but I think it would be a bit foolish to think that just because a democracy has been around a long time in one part of the world would imply that it has any better chance at succeeding in Thailand than any other democratic structure.

Chownah

[lukamar]

The last Gov't was NOT a democratic one .... so whinging on that this one isn't is kinda silly!

When the threat of a counter-coup is gone and there can be a run-up to real elections THEN we get to see if this was good or bad. Not until then!

I can't be bothered to try and argue with you JD.

But.. I will say this... The last government was elected by a vote, you seem to want to discount that fact and knowing your politics I can understand why you do not like the idea.

"When the threat of a counter-coup is gone ." the cdrm announced and it was shown in a poll that 85% of the population was in favor of the coup, surely you do not think that 15% of the populace could overthrow the government. Ohh wait they already did that in September ...LOL

If you think that the next election will be real elections , you are truly living in a dreamland.