rabo

Nobody in the western press and moreover no western governement are calling the red TERRORISTS .

Only posters here do .

That is quite telling isn't it ?

It is neither the responsibility nor perogative of western media/government to judge issues relating to Thai law.

Either way, these would be considered domestic terrorists.

So your argument comes down to "The New York Times did not call them terrorists, therefore they have not committed terrorist acts according to Thai law"

A quite telling argument.

i hope the reds can get what they are wanting and that democracy and fair justice for all.....

Are you insinuating that the Reds want real democracy and fair justice? Did you just pull in from Jupiter (where people are stupider) or from Uranus (where, ....oh never mind)?

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What people do NOT want to be treated fairly and with justice?

It is funny that so so many people here post attacks on the reds in English.

Looks like the western governments are not on your side.

None of them are condemning the Reds.

Even here in Asia, most governments are not condemning the Reds.

I thought you and your kind said this would be over quickly?

The army charged toward the Reds and some men in Black opened up on them.

The video of the army running is quite educational.

Those guys dressed in Black are Thai military shooting at their own.

No charge after has occurred.

All the posts about the Reds likely losing the next election reminds me of the Republican right wing nuts in America who say they will kick Obama's rump in the next election.

He will win again and likely win by even a bigger margin. The rightwing idiots in formerly Bush run Nazi America are upset. They hate him.

BUT they are just shooting their fat mouths off.

Here, you who hate the reds are screaming because you know the Reds will win.

Quit your crying.

It is stupid and dense.

Tom, I think to understand the situation (from any side) one must separate the legitimate needs and desires of the red rural class from the politics of the convicted criminal exiled ex-prime minister K. Mr. Dr. Thaksin and his long history of gross human rights abuses.

Without this separation, all debate between rural red supporters and anti despot Thaksinites will be stupid and dense.

Never saw in the foreign press one single time red shirts beeing branded as terrorists .

Only saw that here in TV .

See 2010-05-10 21:19:34 Are you suffering from RSI?

Regards

It is surely not the responsibility of the foreign press, to decide what kind of criminal codes are broken by Thais in Thailand.

Could we get back on-topic please?

The UDD asked for Suthep to surrender to the police, but he's surrendering to the DSI instead.

Direct quote.

Deputy PM Meets Red-shirts' Demand, Reports to DSI to Pave Way for Rally Dispersal

BANGKOK: -- Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban will report to the Department of Special Investigation tomorrow as demanded by the red-shirt leaders.

Red shirts demanded police, not DSI.

DSI is police, what now?

DIS is a fully independent organization (ongan eesara) set up under the department of Justice. They are not the police. They are considered more independent that the court system.

Could we get back on-topic please?

The UDD asked for Suthep to surrender to the police, but he's surrendering to the DSI instead.

Direct quote.

Deputy PM Meets Red-shirts' Demand, Reports to DSI to Pave Way for Rally Dispersal

BANGKOK: -- Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban will report to the Department of Special Investigation tomorrow as demanded by the red-shirt leaders.

Red shirts demanded police, not DSI.

Why would they do that?? Police don't have jurisdiction.

For your first question: look at the words you wrote that I highlighted in red. Now consider that troops (if indeed it was the troops and not red shirts masquerading as troops, or black shirts, whatever) under battle conditions, if they did shoot, would have some difficulty hitting a moving target especially while being jostled by their colleagues in the heat of battle.

Remember, they're using M16s - set to single shot. On full automatic, they can spray out 12 rounds per second. But they weren't attempting carnage - otherwise known as accuracy through quantity. They were using the minimum firepower to accomplish their task. Throughout, the soldiers have shown amazing grace under fire, and in accordance with international standards, only shot at targets that threatened. That some shots may have gone astray is quite normal on the field of battle - be it a jungle or an urban setting.

As far as the second question goes, if you have an update on the sighting at Mount Ararat, I'd love to hear about it - on an appropriate forum.

I guess I should have used the irony smiley - oh, there isn't one yet. You talk about 'innocent' women; I won't debate that point with you. I just find it ironic that your namesake was known as a butcher, and yet you speak about some injuries during a red shirt attack that the troops tried very hard to avoid. Irony... not sarcasm. Big difference. But you already knew that

M16's in single shot? There are dozens of videos on YouTube showing the army using FULLY AUTOMATIC assault rifles, nothing about single shots. Yet, I'm aware they've said on the news that they're using single shots only, but videos show otherwise.

Anyone can fire a single shot from a fully automatic rifle. Just because "fully automatic rifles" are seen in a video means nothing. Your comment is distracting from the truth. No one ordered anyone to fire automatic rifle fire into the crowd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Could we get back on-topic please?

The UDD asked for Suthep to surrender to the police, but he's surrendering to the DSI instead.

Direct quote.

Deputy PM Meets Red-shirts' Demand, Reports to DSI to Pave Way for Rally Dispersal

BANGKOK: -- Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban will report to the Department of Special Investigation tomorrow as demanded by the red-shirt leaders.

The Nation: here's latest twist. Nuttawut said Reds won't accept Suthep surrendering to DSI. "Conflict of interest", Nuttawut said.

Of course not, Suthep is basically the guy who runs the DSI. It's like Mickey Mouse surrendering to Disneyland.

Che, can you please find Suthep somewhere in this diagram????

Or tell me how Suthep runs the Ministry of Justice????

So it's really Donald Duck you are talking about? Or maybe Goofy

The Nation: here's latest twist. Nuttawut said Reds won't accept Suthep surrendering to DSI. "Conflict of interest", Nuttawut said.

Of course not, Suthep is basically the guy who runs the DSI. It's like Mickey Mouse surrendering to Disneyland.

Red to the core, eh? Nuttawut stated clearly, remember, if he turns himself in, the reds will leave. He made arrangements, and Nuttawut suddenly changed his stance. It really stands to reason that everything the red leaders have said is nothing but lies and deception. The veil has been uncovered.

Not at all. Suthep surrendering to his own department ..are you serious? It is like Mickey Mouse surrendering to Disneyland. Or Michael Jackson surrendering to Neverland. They should arrest Seh Daeng if they want to make any progress. But the army is standing 10 feet away from him and isn't doing anything. Maybe they don't want this to end?

Che, where you you get the idea that Suthep that DSI reports to Suthep???

I don't think so.

what's a "buff"?

a red shirt and their supporters but also Buffoon - where one may consider this an insult for all buffoons (a kind of monkey - not the brightest one on the block but very aggressive)

Probably refers to water buffalo.

Does Thailand have the equivalent to the UCMJ? If so, and Seh Daeng is arrested by the military, any courts-martial are likely to be held sequestered from the public. In general, military forces do not like to make a dog-and-pony show about one of its own gone bad. It's possible that after a Tribunal rules on him (and after any appeals, if those are allowed), we'll see a two-line paragraph announcing his dispatch from this world.

If they don't have a UCMJ, they must have some form of armed forces trial system. It would be interesting to find out what that is....anybody know how these things work in Thailand?

My understanding is the Seh Daeng is still drawing his paycheck from the Army.

But the Army this week put up a request to dismiss him, which was forwarded to Abhisit for approval.

Then, Abhisit starts to label him as the Master Terrorist.

Seh Daeng is probably more afraid of the public prosecutor than his old Army buddies.

If the government has been trying to fracture the red line of command, I would say they have been doing a good job, especially since the local leadership is already in serious disarray.

At any level, anyone that wants amnesty will just point their finger upward to the big man overseas.

What a hypocrite! I can't believe the guy would even talk to these red terrorists.

Hmm ...3 anonymous forum posts claiming the red shirts are terrorists. US Assistant Secretary of State seems to think otherwise. Hmm, who should I believe. Who's more credible ...hmmm, such a tough question!

It's actually very easy, never believe anything the US says or does. This is a very clumsy attempt and against official US policy which clearly states No deals with Terrorists - this kind of thing only gives guys like you, obviously a Terrorist supporter some kind of feeling of legitimacy which is totally wrong.

Good point, if the US has so far not been willing to talk with Che, I guess that makes him illegitimate, or at least have feelings of illegitimacy.

Seems he was meeting with TRT banned and PTP and Thaksin spokesman.

Essentially Team Thaksin above the redshirt leaders.

Maybe delivering a quiet word....

I think he was just here to catch a flight after returning from Burma. Since the foreign minister and several Dems were also invited, the meeting was clearly not under the table but perhaps not to their liking as they didn't show up.

The Embassy had said much earlier that they were "talking to all sides at all levels", but added that talking to the reds and having the reds listen were two different things.

I can't help but think that Abhisit should shut up with this nonsensical naming of people he doesn't like as being responsible for whatever crime du jour...it isn't at all helpful...if he suspects someone of a crime, he should have him arrested and prosecuted...

This stupid putting names on a piece of paper and calling it a conspiracy against the monarchy without a shred of evidene, or this senseless naming of Seh Daeng, it's worse than pointless, it's counter productive....show us the beef Abhisit, show us the beef...

Arrest warrants have been issued. DSI is still working but has caught plenty of people involved with the red shirt leadership that have had weapons with them or in their houses.

Thailand has some of the strictest defamation and libel laws in the world and the PM goes on TV with this. The evidence is there.

Where exactly is the evidence? I assume that it will be a "closed-doors" trial. The public won't ever get to see the evidence. So how sure are we that it's there? Sure, Seh Daeng is a rogue nut, but I'd still like to see the evidence that the government has on him. Simply saying "grenades were thrown, Seh Daeng is responsible" probably wouldn't stand in a court of law anywhere in the world, but it may well be enough evidence in Thailand.

Probably with DSI, you might ask them, their out on Jaengwhattana Road in a new building.

Note the total lack of info or evidence given by the PM linking Khattiya to any actual wrongdoing. But that's not important as he is against Abhisit's roadmap, wants the demonstrations to continue and is in contact with Thaksin. So he is now Thailand's 'Chief Terrorist'.

But as Abhisit's definition of terrorist also includes anyone who tries to undermine the road map. Surely, the PAD given their reaction and objection to the roadmap, are also terrorists.

It wasn't a court of law. He isn't out to prove that Khattiya is a terrorist, although there is plenty of evidence available pointing to that fact.

There is a big difference between the yellows objecting to the road map, and Khattiya doing things to stop the road map from proceeding.

IMO, the yellows should be saying "We object to violent mobs forcing the government into elections, but we accept that the road map is a way forward".

(And before you come back with what the yellows did, the yellows did not cause the PPP/PTP government to fall, neither did the courts. It was the smaller parties no longer supporting an incompentent government that put Abhisit into power.)

If he's not out to prove that Khattiya is a terrorist, what is he doing then calling him a terrorist in front of the entire media? Either he backs this up with some clear evidence or I smell a lawsuit coming soon Abhisit's way.

I suspect there is little need to convince the Thai public that Seh Daeng is behind at least the organized part of the violence, as it's pretty well accepted. He has not been very quiet over the years.

As far a the word terrorist, he's probably more of a phoo gaw gan rai.

"BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva Sunday named suspended Army specialist Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdiphol as the mastermind and chief terrorist who tried to undermine the road map to bring about political reconciliation."

Did I miss something? The PM names him as a terrorist but list no specific acts of terrorism. What is he referring too? The attacks on the police? The bombs on Silom?

I have no idea Khattiya committed terrorism, maybe he did, but if he did, why not indite him on those acts? Seems a bit backwards to me just to call someone a terrorist without specifically charging him or at least saying exactly what he did.

Like I asked, did i miss something??????

I imagine everyone (Thais) have known Seh Daeng's role from the outset, it wasn't very secretive. The recent public statements about arresting him suggest that DSI now has enough evidence to do so. Of course, DSI is not obligated to tell us the details but the following public info is enough to suggest the violence is origanzied by someone like SD.

Attempted demolition of the power pylons feeding Bangkok exactly at the time the shooting started on April 10th.

Targeting and killing of the commanding Army officers on the night of April 10th.

Mysterious militia responsible for much of the shooting on same evening.

Attempted sabotage of Thailand's main jet fuel depots with an RPG rocket.

Stolen arms found in Seh Daeng's home and the home of his adviser, a few months ago.

A grenade attack on Anupong's office the day after Seh Daeng was relieved of duties.

And of course Seh Daeng's own comments about his military prowess and ability to defeat the Army.

His refusal to teach dancing class as ordered by Anupong?

It's easy to spot the elites as they act with total and complete immunity from the law.

Does that make the red leaders elites?

In a sentence, Thaksin is a wanna be Thai elite who couldn't get along with other elite people because of his own extreme greed and egotistical problems.

Easy: Move to a better news source.

They actually wrote this, quoted verbatim, in full:

Reds leaders to meet again Sunday

Red shirts leaders' meeting after double fatal attacks ended on Saturday without any resolution when they would end their rally. Nuttawut Saikua, a red shirt leader, told after the meeting that the core leaders would meet again on Sunday to work out on more concrete plan.

(http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Reds-leaders-to-meet-again-Sunday-30128862.html )

Now, look how they struggle to get the reference to the violence in there in the same paragraph as the actual news fact, that the Red leaders will meet again today. It almost isn't even English anymore: " Red shirts leaders' meeting after double fatal attacks ended on Saturday without any resolution when they would end their rally. "

This really is getting quite tedious.

meeting is a noun, ended is the verb, makes perfect sense to me.

Same old same old here.

All the reds get blocked and deleted here.

The anti-Reds are free to trash the reds with names and attacks.

Fair and honest just like Fox News in America.

P.S

Thanks a lot Australia for giving that Nazi, Rupert, a passport so that he could move to America and feed the right-wing nuts, a strong but vocal minority, in the states.

Might I suggest that fairness be used more on the filtering of posts.

I understand that the current government is not red but take into account Thai visa, that the future could be different.

Curious juxtaposition.

It´s about time now to arrest these criminals!

And who would they be? The present government who stole power and were never elected or the poor farmers and working class who want a democratically elected government. While I don't condone the violence it is never clear who is committing it. As a guest in thailand I suggest that you respect the will of the people for a demoncratic government. I am sure you would not settle for less in your country.

As a long term resident and official head of a rather large 3 generation northeastern family originally from Buriram, I will stand by the monarchy and the legal constitution of Thailand and the branches of the government and armed forces that legally protect it. My family stands firmly behind me. We, and the majority of the country and its institutions oppose the tyranny represented by Mr. Thaksin and his cohorts and his return.

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

Ahem, violent illegal mob of 2006... Hmmm, bloodless coup... violent mob? Where. My photos would belie that description. A child giving ice cream to soldiers... Real violent... A soldier by a talk festooned with flowers... I cropped a couple of friends out of one... no reason to make anyone a target for crazy redshirts...

Yep, they were definitely very peaceful. Armed and dangerous, but peaceful. The guy with the slingshot, peaceful. The guys with the golf clubs, peaceful. The guys beating police officers, extremely peaceful. The guy aiming a handgun and shooting, even more peaceful. Here are some more photos to back up your claims of the peaceful PAD:

...

Hmmm, your point?

My photos were from the 2006 coup. Your photos were from where now...? I said nothing of the PAD... My photos were a reference to the coup, an event which every Thai I knew welcomed. 100%

Seems trying to throw up smokescreens...

Also, the yellow ribbons, sometimes seen on gun barrels after the coup, were to honor His Majesty. For those that remember, yellow shirts with the inscription "I love my King" were popular at the time, as yellow is the color of Monday, the day on which the king was born.

I still have a few of these shirts that I no longer wear.

Okay, just reviewed today's updates. So, basically the reds are back to pretending they are above all average citizens but are setting the stage to cry about how they were working towards a better road map to improve the one from the PM when for no reason at all the military moves on us and slaughtered all our lambs who we told to fight authorities till death.

Basically, nothing has changed since day one with this violent illegal mob.

Since Bangkok was occupied by the violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006 there has been no peace. Why does Abhisit condone the violence? Because he is paid by the perpetrators.

What violent illegal mob in Sept of 2006? Do you mean the coup? That was a most peaceful and pleasant time. Only problem was the traffic jams from people stopping for photo ops and all the pretty girls dressed up in dresses keeping the soldiers from their afternoon snooze. Oh, and the price of flowers went up.

Maybe we need another, sure is better than what Thaksin's handing out.

Oops, DP.

I wear a helmet in Cm in the mornings to avoid the 200bht fine.

All other times I don't bother.

If Buddha wants me to die, wearing a helmet won't save me.

But Buddha does not want you to die, he teaches that want is the source of unhappiness.

I grew up on bikes. Mini bike at 8, dirt bike at 10, racing dirt and motocross at 12, and I have never, ever straddled a bike without a helmet on first. I've had big bikes (650 cc Ninja / Norton 650), and now ride a CBR 150R. I live "out in the suburbs", so to speak, and I don't care if I'm just going to the little market a kilometer down the road, I wear a helmet. It's a full head helmet with sunshades inside that can be raised or lowered. And I make everyone one I know and care about wear them as well. I've seen far too many deaths and permanent injuries that could have, or at least might have, been avoided if a helmet had been worn. However, I also must admit that there are times when I'm wearing short pants and a tee shirt, which may not be the best thing when doing 100+ on the highways. 5555 But at least my head is well protected.

Like you, I've grown up on bikes but I am not that fond of helmits though of course I wear one.

After 38 years of riding, I was finally creamed by a taxi while riding a sportster 1200 in an impossible to prevent accident. The helmet I was wearing clearly saved my life as I landed on the back of my head. I was knocked unconscious for about 10 minutes and don't to this day remember the accident. The doctors said my head was OK but it took 2 surgeries and about a year to get everything else back in order. Later in life a developed an arachnoid cyst in the brain at the impact point. Glad I had a helmet on.