mogoso

Thaksin flees the capital . . . and reality

Sums it all up really, reality ends at the Bangkok City Limits. The views and votes of the population beyond count for nothing.

As the majority of people don't live in Bangkok, don't they count as part of the population? Or do only democratic voters count as people?

Most people don't realize just how bad the pollution is in Chiang Mai and the damage it does to ones health.

Example: The GLOBOCAN 2000 worldwide average rates for lung cancer is 23.8 cases per 100,000. In Chiang Mai, the Thai Provincial Public Health Office had a 2002 rate for lung cancer at 138.87 cases per 100,000. That is almost 6 times higher than the world average.

On top of that, in 2003 there were 704,800 cases of respiratory diseases recorded and the numbers are rising.

Besides cancer, recent reports have shown a direct link to air pollution to asthma and heart disease as well. The damage toxic air does to arteries in addition to increasing inflammation within the body is well documented.

So don't be surprised when your eyes begin to water, your nose begins to run, you get that constant cough or pressure on your chest, or get some other mysterious disease that has yet to be diagnosed. It's just that healthy Chiang Mai mountain air that is filling your lungs 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Just outta curiousity what are the radon readings in Chiang Mai. seems like an incredible amount of cancer rates for air pollution to be the sole or even main culprit.

I don't know him or hers name, but lets call him/her Moak. Moak was the first caveman to figure out how to make fire. From their contributions all that follows is with their help.

[quote name='thai3' date='2006-03-08 16:5

"Brothers of Luzifer", "apostolic" ... LOL! You do come up with funny shit.[/size]

He who would laugh at the potential of his own fate does not understand how little impact he really has in effecting his own fate. They win, these brothers of Lucifer and your fate will be apostolic beyond ever grin you ever had unless you are they that win that is.

BUY DANISH!

We will remember not the words, acts and deeds of our enemies, but the same in and of the silence of our friends.

The most brilliant, informative and intelligent post I have ever seen on the subject, well said.

Its been a pleasure to read these posts, intelligent and well researched. I want a daily column in my newspaper.

when the media is stifled, alleged drug dealers are sumarily executed,

votes bought-n-sold, checks and balances thwarted, etc.,

it is not clear that Thailand even classifies as a real democracy.

I beg to differ. In the US the democratic party finds it convient to pay voters for their time. why in Chicago even the dead have been voting democratic for years.

Well, it's bloody cold in Europe right now and I don't feel like I would enjoy a daily shower here, although I would stink less.

When Mr. tourist arrives in Bangkok he does not realise he needs to clean the sweat off from time to time, that simple.

And I never saw a topless bathing beauty around Chumpon's beaches

I been in Europe on some bloody cold days, and its a rare day I don't shower at least twice. Can't imagine not feeling clean leaving my residence or climbing into my bed.

any photo?

Having problems! IPSTAR SUCKS !!

Thats about the way I'd touch that critter, with a 10 foot pole. Big snake

Perhaps before using your favorite word,"racist" you should look up its meaning as your usage is tiring and incorrect. The use of the word racist is meant only to promote sympathy for your remarks. that it doesn't deserve. Actually your bias does a diservice to many of your fellow Islamists, those of eastern euro descent as well as Indonesians, subsaharans, the vast majority of those of the Islamic faith, by not including them within the scope of Islam, you show your own bigotry toward your own religion. So please look up racist, before you use it.

As for traveling to Islamic countries, been there, done that and just have no desire to return to any of them.

Theres always been trouble in Islamic countries, that why instead of nations made up of laws binding people together, you have systems of warlords vying for power within geographic boundaries. Hatred among Muslims, hatred of infidels, it doesn't matter, hatred is a driving force of Islam. Power gained by force is always the norm, its a tribalist society. Rule by warlords.

Counties that have progressed economically no longer have tribalist societies, but have banded together for a common goal regardless of what immigration has taken place into them. Islamic countries where the populace are mostly muslim tend to be back water cesspools unless they have oil money, and then that doesn't always trickle back into their population ie Iran, Iraq

Nothing keeps Muslims from suceeding in this world more than their religion and its "ideals"

Oh, my apologies for the incorrect term i used. Is calling you bigots more suitable?

And as to your speculation on my religion, i believe that i have to dissappoint you, i have been born a protestant, never was confirmed though as even at that age i did not trust any organised religion.

As to hate, start cleaning your own houses first. The posts here from you rednecks are some of the most hateful things i have come across, including the one that advocates to "wipe them all out", on a par with the "Islamic terrorists" you hate so much.

The rest of you pseudo anthropoligist babble does not even warrant any answer other than that you are in dire need of a few good books. Maybe start first with "Winnie the Poo" and work your way up.

And yes, i have been in many Islamic countries, some i liked less, some more, and of some i have very fond memories. Especially one where i would have died for lack of food and money would it not have been for the very gracious Islamic hospitality that i was given.

Calling the majority of posters on the subject "realists" would certainly be closer to accurate rather than bigoted. Truth is always difficult for those with an agenda to accept. Your story of a compassionate Muslim doen't surprise me, but it does show a lack of judgement on your part for allowing yourself to be in a position in a foriegn country to possibly die from an obvious bad decision on your part. So I understand somewhat your protective attitute.

I can renounce the religion, I can denounce the purveyors of violence associated with that religion, I can assail the Imans who preach intolerance and violence and not be bigoted. I've not said kill one innocent soul anywhere. I have said Islam as a religion condones all that has happened, takes offense at the slightest slur but sees absolutely nothing really wrong in the actions that adherents do in the name of Allah. And what I say will only be a truthful observation, not a bigoted attack. I will be showing a bias, but we're all biased in many things.

Next month I'll have three Maylay Muslims over to my home for dinner as their here for a conference. we get along or they wouldn't be a guest in my home, as I've nothing but a social interaction with these folk

. One will drink copious amounts of alcohol, ( the others won't) while telling me I haven't given Islam a fair shake. while I'll ask him what has he said or done at the Mosque to denounce whats occurring in Islam as a whole and particulary the south of Thailand. His sister and her husband, will be quiet on this subject.

The Islamic talk will die out, and we'll talk about Ipoh (a mainly chinese city) when our we coming to visit them in KL, hows so and so. They'll depart the next day and we'll see each other in a year or two. Nothing will change, they'll still hate a people (Jewish) they don't really interact with or know, for a spurious cause.

Isreal as a people have inhabited their land for three thousand years, twice as long as theres been a religion of Islam. Islam never totally removed Jews from living there, only reduced the number. So who has the better historical claim? Militarily the Jews kicked butt and only UN intervention stopped them from taking the whole region in the small series of wars. Gotta hurt to have the numbers but not the ability to use them.

I've read Winnie the Pooh, tigger rocks.

Perhaps before using your favorite word,"racist" you should look up its meaning as your usage is tiring and incorrect. The use of the word racist is meant only to promote sympathy for your remarks. that it doesn't deserve. Actually your bias does a diservice to many of your fellow Islamists, those of eastern euro descent as well as Indonesians, subsaharans, the vast majority of those of the Islamic faith, by not including them within the scope of Islam, you show your own bigotry toward your own religion. So please look up racist, before you use it.

As for traveling to Islamic countries, been there, done that and just have no desire to return to any of them.

Theres always been trouble in Islamic countries, that why instead of nations made up of laws binding people together, you have systems of warlords vying for power within geographic boundaries. Hatred among Muslims, hatred of infidels, it doesn't matter, hatred is a driving force of Islam. Power gained by force is always the norm, its a tribalist society. Rule by warlords.

Counties that have progressed economically no longer have tribalist societies, but have banded together for a common goal regardless of what immigration has taken place into them. Islamic countries where the populace are mostly muslim tend to be back water cesspools unless they have oil money, and then that doesn't always trickle back into their population ie Iran, Iraq

Nothing keeps Muslims from suceeding in this world more than their religion and its "ideals"

Oh, my apologies for the incorrect term i used. Is calling you bigots more suitable?

And as to your speculation on my religion, i believe that i have to dissappoint you, i have been born a protestant, never was confirmed though as even at that age i did not trust any organised religion.

As to hate, start cleaning your own houses first. The posts here from you rednecks are some of the most hateful things i have come across, including the one that advocates to "wipe them all out", on a par with the "Islamic terrorists" you hate so much.

The rest of you pseudo anthropoligist babble does not even warrant any answer other than that you are in dire need of a few good books. Maybe start first with "Winnie the Poo" and work your way up.

And yes, i have been in many Islamic countries, some i liked less, some more, and of some i have very fond memories. Especially one where i would have died for lack of food and money would it not have been for the very gracious Islamic hospitality that i was given.

Incorrect and naive thinking on your part. Anti-west sentiment was there before and would be there after. Appeasement only worsens the problems and this has been proven over and over through out history.

With the appeasement remark i do hope you don't mean Chamberlain as this would open another huge can of worms, which carries rather uncomfortable similarities to todays situation... IBM, Ford, Standard Oil, etc...

Anyhow, roots of todays Islamic terrorism lie in the US, Saudi and Paksithani built up of those jihadis. Justification of those terrorists in the Islamic world lies largely in the US presence on their holy soil, and that presence came long before 9/11.

The sandpit was occupied by the US due to the lust for cheap oil, collaborating with the most corrupt royal house of Saud, which had in turn to appease their own Wahabit mullahs by supporting their radical causes in the whole islamic world.

If you guys would stop salivating over your racist and war-mongering posts, and instead take the time to read books about the subject, maybe even travel to the affected areas, then you might find out that all these people on both sides get killed because of the megalomaniac policies of a few. The few that have always profited from the sacrifice of the stupid and gullible, and still are profiting.

Perhaps before using your favorite word,"racist" you should look up its meaning as your usage is tiring and incorrect. The use of the word racist is meant only to promote sympathy for your remarks. that it doesn't deserve. Actually your bias does a diservice to many of your fellow Islamists, those of eastern euro descent as well as Indonesians, subsaharans, the vast majority of those of the Islamic faith, by not including them within the scope of Islam, you show your own bigotry toward your own religion. So please look up racist, before you use it.

As for traveling to Islamic countries, been there, done that and just have no desire to return to any of them.

Theres always been trouble in Islamic countries, that why instead of nations made up of laws binding people together, you have systems of warlords vying for power within geographic boundaries. Hatred among Muslims, hatred of infidels, it doesn't matter, hatred is a driving force of Islam. Power gained by force is always the norm, its a tribalist society. Rule by warlords.

Counties that have progressed economically no longer have tribalist societies, but have banded together for a common goal regardless of what immigration has taken place into them. Islamic countries where the populace are mostly muslim tend to be back water cesspools unless they have oil money, and then that doesn't always trickle back into their population ie Iran, Iraq

Nothing keeps Muslims from suceeding in this world more than their religion and its "ideals"

ABSENT Labor MP Robert Poole has resigned as the Member for Gaven, effective immediately.

Premier Peter Beattie told State Parliament he had received Mr Poole's written resignation from Thailand.

A former police officer and union organiser, Mr Poole has been dubbed the "Invisible Man" by constituents and the "Member for Thailand" by the opposition for his extended absences in Thailand where his wife and two young sons live.

Link Here

Ya gotta be where your heart leads you to be happy. Chok dee kupt to him and his family.

Though any terrorist acts have so far been confined to Xingjian province, it is perfectly feasible that there could be willing jihadists in most parts of China. I am sure however, that they are generally dissuaded by the certain knowledge that retribution would be swift and merciless. The Chinese Communist Party leadership makes Taksin look like a rank amateur in comparison.

The world be much more benign place if the western world would treat Islamists the same way.

The first notion you need to disabuse yourselves of, is the fallacy that my country, Thailand, is a democracy. It is not.

No populace that is as uneducated about the value of enfranchisement as the Thai rural poor can be regarded as a democratic constituency. They are many years from understanding the value and meaning of democracy, or the obligations that come with their ability to vote.

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We've many poor undereducated people in our country that know the value of their vote, you keep voting for those candidates you think will give you the most same same in Thailand. Why put down your own people

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Thai Ruk Thai is the largest, richest organisation ever to hit the Thai political scene. Most of those in high places there are many-times disgraced dinosaurs of Thai politics. The only successes they have enjoyed have been lining their own pockets over many incarnations.

Let us look at some of the many vaunted “successes” of TRT’s governance:

The 30 Bt. medical scheme. Every hospital involved is crying foul and desperate to find the funds to continue in operation.

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Same same here, public hospitals who don't even get their $.75 cents from patient toward operating cost complain, sure its a hassle getting money from the goverment, but they've been operating for many years, paying their workers, buying supoplies and taking care of their patients. No hospital can turn an emergency away regardless of ability to pay. Non emergencies and continued care go towards the public hospitals. Our southern borders states are inudated with hispanics that clog up hospitals and use others monies to pay. yet manage to stay in business. A problem Thailand doesn't have. Hospitals that take care of public patients always complain and with good reason, its the nature of the beast, all goverment agencies always complain to obtain greater funding .

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The 1 M-Bt. Village fund. A blatant act of bribing and purchasing votes from the rural population, possible only through legal loopholes. Most individual beneficiaries of these funds are now deeper in debt than they ever were before. They have to repay their loans at the end of each year. To do so, they need to borrow, at exorbitant rates, from local leeches, repay the loan and then hope they can re-borrow at the start of the new year, leaving the 20-50% “leech fee” to be repaid over time.

The multiple mega-projects are al, without exception, ill conceived and riddled with corruption.

Dinosaurs lining their personal nests at the cost of you, me and all the other citizens of our potentially great Kingdom.

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As anywhere when you borrow money, you need to repay. Many whom have thought out what they needed to borrow, to obtain what goal, and how they could repay with a reasonable certainly do well. Those who borrow just to get money, without a real idea of how to repay, get in trouble. Not a Thai problem but a human problem. Many here owe credit card companies huge sums and pay outrageous interest legally to the issueing banks. They went for instant gratification in most cases, and now are paying the cost. I've credit cards for convience, but pay balance monthly, and actually make a few bucks doing this.

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The last "election" was won, not through a "democratic process" but through corruption, fraud and practices that would declare any Western, (apart from, perhaps, the USA) poll invalid and have the perpetuators sent away at his Majesty’s pleasure for appreciable prison sentences.

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T The USAs elections were(are) fraudulent. Spoken like a true democrat. The ones crying foul (and I assume you refer to the 2000 election) were democrats and as it be shown on this board many titimes the claim is baseless, but a useful tool by demo leaders for explaining why they lost the election to their constituents, rather than saying we haven't a clue.

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Throughout most of the rural areas, voters, in deep hock to the state through the 1M-Bt. village fund, were told their loans would be called in if TRT failed to win their local seat. Local officials, Poo-Yai Baan and others, were told they would lose their jobs. Those who could not be threatened into giving their “Free” vote to TRT were bribed in other ways. The result, a landslide.

This next election, if it went ahead normally, would be no different. No opposition party could possibly ever win on this, possibly the least flat playing field on the planet.

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To you the only election results that you would accept would be a demo victory, which would of course have been election without fraud, while if the opposition wins its fraudulent. Typical democratic thought, only we can lead well.

I do not like Thaksin but he is at least democratically elected!

Democratically elected?

My partner's familly in far Issan got 100 baht per person to vote for the candidate of the opposition last time, and then 200 to vote for Thaksin....

~S

Truly a democratic election, vote for who will give you the most

Sorry I cannot agree with most of you.

I think boycotting the election is a great idea. they are NOT stupid... they know if he gets re-elected that all h@ll will break loose because he will not have been democratically elected if there was no opposition

One thing you cannot call Thaksin is stupid, corrupt , but not stupid.. thats why he has called a snap election.. C'mon you have all read the papers, what goes around comes around...and he knows he is on his political ARSE! He is on his way OUT one way or another.

Why would he not be elected democratically? as I recall votings a duty in Thailand. If your going to show up at the polls might as well vote. The sunni minority tried a boycott in the first Iraqi election, changed their tune the next election.

Big cities are generally democratic, as well as union. trade association etc but rural areas where the majority of people live are more conservative, they are people who have to work for life on its most basic level.

The majority of posters on this board come from socialist europe, they feel more comfortable with a nanny goverment, like the cradle to grave comfort of big brother watching over them, wiping their asses and giving them comfort. Hence the proliferation of prodemo posts, and anti Taksin messages found on this board. well I'm never voting in a Thai election and very ###### few of you will. I constantly read negativity against the PM but very few comments about whats occurred thats been good. I go with my Thai wife on this one, she points out all the good Taksins done vs what occurred before he took office. She has no reason to be happy with the man, didn't like him before he took office, and as she worked for a company that he owned and lost her job when he closed it, she certainly didn't vote for the man. But she recognizes what many things that've improved. 30 baht health visits, wipe out of world bank debt in such a short period of time, it surprised all, building projects all around the country etc..

I think alot people dislike the intrusion into their enjoyments, bars closing earlier, crackdown on drugs, an increase in what it takes to stay in Thailand monetarily etc None of which will affect me, I'm happily married, drink rarely , bars aren't my cup of tea anymore, and if I want live music I'll buy an electronic piano as I can't play my guitars anymore.

But I guess my point is most here wish to import their values from home and place them in Thailand. Same as Muslims wish to do in Europe(world) and many are starting to resent that. I say let the Thais decide, many on board have a tendency toward elitism, as if their smarter, better than the Thais. I'm not smarter or better than anyone, I recognize that fact, my values aren't necessarily thai values, although many coincide, but I'll not try to force them on anyone

It appears that the big dealers are making a LOT more money and are still and even better protected than before the "crackdown". Until the government truly cracks down on corruption I see little hope that drugs will be controlled.

True the big guys are making money, but its hard to kill all the democrats , but certainly drug use was more acceptable and easier to do under their rule.

I may not agree with the style of control, but it has worked to an extent.

The example of foriegners coming into the country to purchase drugs in quanity easily leads me to think of PT Barnum saying theres a sucker born every minute. If your a goverment agent it could be profitable to sell and report. Foriegn currency stays in country, drugs are siezed and destoyed or resold to other would be entreprenuers to be busted. agent takes his cut, rest going into the coffers of the country to pay for incarceration. Goverment gets a big story about taking bigtime foriegn trafficers outta the drug business. Win for govement all the way around. Entrapment, yes, but who cares? not me, not my business.

I don't care much for the killings though, too iffy a proposition, but theres not much continueing expense after using a 15 baht bullet.

No matter what my personal views are, Thailands not my country, I may finish out my days of my life there, but I'll never be Thai, I'll never vote there, and I'll have to live under their laws, without much recourse. I'll follow them to the very best I can, as I do in my own country. I'm long past the bulletproffness of youth as well as the it'll not happen to me, I'm way too careful stage. If your going to get involved with such things, you know theres a consequence, you know theres a reason the product is cheaper there. Its purely a risk factor, the " do you feel lucky punk" mentality. Its risky for Thais its risky for farangs. Best to stay away from the trade and anyone associated with it. In Morrocco I believe its a 5 year sentence for even discussing the purchase of drugs with someone, no drugs have to be present. Their country their law. Yet many people smokes abit there

Well, I used to have a girlfriend, who was a 2-bagger. The 1st was to put over her head - she being a little challenged in the good-looks department. The 2nd bag was for my own head - in case her bag fell off, during the turbulent night.

Clearly no relation of Chiang Mai's very own Elephant Man.

Get well soon !

Is there an excuse to get that drunk, and stay that drunk? In your situation I say

The credit card companies in the U.S. have saturated the market over here and have gotten 90 % of the middle class workers trapped in a living hel_l of years of payments , high interest,fees, and new protection where cards can't even be included in a bankruptcy. Their strategy now is to go after other countries and I saw numerous advertisement in the Bangkok Post with those enticing come-on adds to get people "hooked". Be careful Thailand.......

I've several credit cards, and I pay no interest. I pay balance when billed. I get a small rebate on several of them, 1-2 % on what I've spent so actually they pay me to use them. Great protection on purchases doubling warranty time, and even protecting loss. Moving to Thailand will put me on a mostly cash basis I guess.

Bambina,

It's hard to imagine someone with you sense of humour being alone. Have no idea of your true age, but suspect that you are not too ancient. Along the road of life, I am convinced that there is someone special for everyone. After more than one failed marriages, have now been happily married for several years to my Thai wife, who apart from anything else happens to be my best friend, and I could simply not imagine life without her!

I too feel the same about my beautiful wonderful kindspirited sweet non nagging Thai wife, who laughs with me and at me and herself. She hasn't as much education as I but make no mistake about her intelligence, her drive, or her capacity for love and life. I only hope I can live forever as that in itself wouldn't be enough to bask in the warmth of her love.

But when the inevitable end comes, she'll be at the side of my bed comforting me with her presence and love.

Lonely - Akon

Lonely I'm Mr Lonely,

I have nobody,

For my owwnnn

I'm so lonely, I'm Mr. Lonely

I have nobody,

For my owwnnn

I'm so lonely,

Yo this one here goes out to all my playas out there ya kno got that one good girl whose always been there like ya Know took all the bullshit then one day she cant take it no more and decides to leave

I woke up in the middle of the night and I noticed my girl wasn't by my side, coulda sworn I was dreamin, for her I was Feenin, so I hadda take a little ride, back tracking ova these few years, tryna figure out wat I do to make it go bad, cuz Ever since my girl left me, my whole life came crashin

I'm so lonely (so lonely),

I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)

I have nobody (I have nobody)

To call my own (to call my own) girl

I'm so lonely (so lonely)

I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)

I have nobody (I have nobody)

To call my own (to call my own) girl

Cant belive I hadda girl like you and I just let you walk right outta my life, after all I put u thru u still stuck Around and stayed by my side, what really hurt me is I broke ur heart, baby you were a good girl and I had no right, I Really wanna make things right, cuz without u in my life girl

I'm so lonely (so lonely)

I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)

I have nobody (I have nobody)

To call my own (to call my own) girl

I'm so lonely (so lonely)

I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)

I have nobody (I have nobody)

To call my own (to call my own) girl

Been all about the world ain't neva met a girl that can take the things that you been through

Never thought the day would come where you would get up and run and I would be out chasing u

Cuz aint nowhere in the globe id rather be, aint noone in the globe id rather see then the girl of my dreams that made me Be so happy but now so lonely

So lonely (so lonely)

I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)

I have nobody (I have nobody)

To call my own (to call my own)

I'm so lonely (so lonely)

I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)

I have nobody (I have nobody)

To call my own (to call my own) girrll

Never thought that id be alone, I didnt hope you'd be gone this long, I jus want u to call my phone, so stop playing girl and Come on home (come on home), baby girl I didn't mean to shout, I want me and you to work it out, I never wished Id ever Hurt my baby, and its drivin me crazy cuz...

I'm so lonely (so lonely)

I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)

I have nobody (I have nobody)

To call my own (to call my own)

I'm so lonely (so lonely)

I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)

I have nobody (I have nobody)

To call my own (to call my own) girll

Lonely, so lonely

So lonely, (so lonely),

Mr. Lonely, so lonely

So lonely, so lonely, (so lonely), Mr. Lonely

[/quote

Don't know who wrote the song, but believe Bobby Vinton recorded it. I notice a verse I remember missing I think its

Lonely I'm Mister Lonely

Now I'm a soldier

A lonely soldier, away from home

Through no wish of my own

Lonely I'm mister lonely

I wish I had someone to call on the phone

Yeah, what's the drawbacks of the democratic party?

Also, given politicians are generally self-serving and corrupt to whatever extent do you begin to weigh that against the benefits they've brought, such as a healthy ecomomy?

Let me remember who was in power in the late ninties, when the baht fell so badly, the banks were failing under the weight of defaulted loans, the country had a large national debt, and the folks in power were buddies with George Sourus (sp) and oh yes corruption was as bad if not worse. Could it have been the DEMOCRATS, why yes I do believe thats true.

Today more people have jobs, the World Banks been paid off, there are 30 baht doctor visits, more people have a greater hope for the future, and I don't believe the Democrats helped much.

Any catching ideas .

I am due to go back to Melbourne ( Australia ) to reopen a business !

I am the landlord and the tenant did not commit to the lease.

I use to run this location a successful café shop before, but I am not interested to start again the same type of business!

What I am looking is a Thai café / restaurant open 7 days from lunch to dinner .

It is in a busy area , and my aimed is to look first after the local and second after the tourists !

Give your self a break, 7 days a week, lunch dinners a tough grind in a restaurant. Too much stress, take a day off.

So are being closed minded by not going to the BBC website and checking out piles of contradicting evidence?

What's your real motivation for not believing global warming isn't caused by us? One book surely isn't enough evidence. Are you per chance American and own a large SUV and a coal factory (that is tongue in cheek and not really aimed at you - no need to take offence).

;'

I didn't say I didn't go to the BBC site, just going there wasn't going to change my mind.

Historical evidence shows that the climate has always changed, heck the continents have changed. The one constant of life is change. I'm not getting into a chicken little frame of mind about global warming, theres just too much recent geologic evidence to follow the crowd. And once again I mention the suns increased output

Tp listen to enviormentalists that are leading the charge, certainly leads me to wonder how hypocritical are these people. Example Audobon Society pumps oil off its land in louisiana, another maybe WWF asked to drill on its land in Texas a few years back. Oh sure they're doing it to raise funds to do more for the enviorment, so that makes it ok

Dude are you trolling? Come on... how can you still not see it. Check this page out for a collection of evidence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/sci_te...nge/default.stm

Most governments admit it's happening (that's not the problem) the problem is them doing anything about it - they are too self-serving. They are in power for a short time and dead almost sooner. Even if global warming is a myth (yeah right!!!), surely polluting the world as much as we do can't be overlooked. How blissful is ignorance really?

On the topic of peopel actually using green energy this guy has an interesting piece on the 4/40 gap. 40% of people want to use green stuff but only 4% do.

http://makower.typepad.com/joel_makower/20...ng_the_wal.html

Now I never mentioned pollution as not being real water soils and air are being polluted. But as for it being the source for global warming naw I don't buy it. Going to a BBC website isn't going to change my mind. I've a book authored by a French scientist, Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie " Times of Feast, Times Oo Famine" A history of climate changes for the last 1000 years.

As you know a number of factors go into the wine making process, the chief of these being the growth orf grapes.

The French it can be said, like their wine, its a taste and economic thing to them. They keep marvelous records on crop yields taste class of grapes etc Although they weren't using thermometers a thousand years back, what you recieved as a crop was totally in proportion to the weather, and what came with it basically rain, snow etc.

The point of above paragraph was to illustrate that a crude way to devine what occurred was an anylysis of these records as a part of her data.( Interesting way to gain research data, hanging around a winery)

What she summarized was weather occurs, it goes up in cycles it goes down in cycles. She is a dedicated climatologist, this isn't a book you write for profit.

Many scientist held the earth was flat, man couldn't fly ect it doesn't serve one well to always follow the crowd.

And I do resent being called a troll because I defer in viewpoint as you would being called a lemming by going with a crowd.

We've data to analyze what occurred before records or man. In the american west theres an area where they analyze soil deposition caused by ice dams. They're trying to figure out the cycle of these dams formation. They are formed when temperature falls for an extended period of time and then melts as it warms up. This isn't an ice age occurrance but simply a weather pattern, unknown causes.

I also resent your stating that I said global warming isn't happening. I never said that. I said I don't believe it mans fault, as the suns output of radiation has increased. Man cannot affect the sun, no matter how many large cars or factories he has, or in some folks ego.

Yes, Yes, Yes...ColPyat...I agree with you ( I was being sarcastic) Most of the people I know can not believe what Bush has done to the "world". I am totally against his policies!

U.S. bumper sticker...(with a reference to Clinton)

IF YOU CAN GET IMPEACHED FOR DIDDILING WITH AN INTERN, WHAT DO YOU GET FOR F###### THE WHOLE COUNTRY?

First it wasn't an impeachment for screwing around with an intern. It was for lying to a federal court in a sexual harassment case, brought against him under a law he signed with great potification

Second it'd be my guess that'd you'd prefer a mini Hitler to continue to murder tens of thousands of his own people to install the fear to not oust a member of a minority sect that weilded absolute control over their lives. The violence in Iraqi at this time is sectarian in nature. You have heard of Sunnis and Shites? But then again considering your usage of the clinton bumper sticker as a way to prop up your arguement, probably not.

Whenever I type on the comp. I get certain words underlined in red, telling me they are incorrectly spelt. I know computers are designed in USA, but it is still classed as the English language.

They tell me words like flavour, favour, are wrongly spelt. there are many other examples of this.

I know the yanks like to simplify our language, but to tell us the Collins dictionary is wrong is insulting. Why can't they accept both spellings as correct. It should'nt be too difficult.

I for one spell the English way. The way I was taught.

I don't bother spell checking or even proff reading. I just type and let it rip. If someone can't follow the thought through bad syntex or spelling,its ok with me. I don't sweat the small stuff.