
mogoso
-
Posts
1,257 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Events
Forums
Downloads
Quizzes
Gallery
Blogs
Posts posted by mogoso
-
-
It appears that the big dealers are making a LOT more money and are still and even better protected than before the "crackdown". Until the government truly cracks down on corruption I see little hope that drugs will be controlled.
True the big guys are making money, but its hard to kill all the democrats
, but certainly drug use was more acceptable and easier to do under their rule.
I may not agree with the style of control, but it has worked to an extent.
The example of foriegners coming into the country to purchase drugs in quanity easily leads me to think of PT Barnum saying theres a sucker born every minute. If your a goverment agent it could be profitable to sell and report. Foriegn currency stays in country, drugs are siezed and destoyed or resold to other would be entreprenuers to be busted. agent takes his cut, rest going into the coffers of the country to pay for incarceration. Goverment gets a big story about taking bigtime foriegn trafficers outta the drug business. Win for govement all the way around. Entrapment, yes, but who cares? not me, not my business.
I don't care much for the killings though, too iffy a proposition, but theres not much continueing expense after using a 15 baht bullet.
No matter what my personal views are, Thailands not my country, I may finish out my days of my life there, but I'll never be Thai, I'll never vote there, and I'll have to live under their laws, without much recourse. I'll follow them to the very best I can, as I do in my own country. I'm long past the bulletproffness of youth as well as the it'll not happen to me, I'm way too careful stage. If your going to get involved with such things, you know theres a consequence, you know theres a reason the product is cheaper there. Its purely a risk factor, the " do you feel lucky punk" mentality. Its risky for Thais its risky for farangs. Best to stay away from the trade and anyone associated with it. In Morrocco I believe its a 5 year sentence for even discussing the purchase of drugs with someone, no drugs have to be present. Their country their law. Yet many people smokes abit there
-
Well, I used to have a girlfriend, who was a 2-bagger. The 1st was to put over her head - she being a little challenged in the good-looks department. The 2nd bag was for my own head - in case her bag fell off, during the turbulent night.
Clearly no relation of Chiang Mai's very own Elephant Man.
Get well soon !
Is there an excuse to get that drunk, and stay that drunk? In your situation I say
-
The credit card companies in the U.S. have saturated the market over here and have gotten 90 % of the middle class workers trapped in a living hel_l of years of payments , high interest,fees, and new protection where cards can't even be included in a bankruptcy. Their strategy now is to go after other countries and I saw numerous advertisement in the Bangkok Post with those enticing come-on adds to get people "hooked". Be careful Thailand.......
I've several credit cards, and I pay no interest. I pay balance when billed. I get a small rebate on several of them, 1-2 % on what I've spent so actually they pay me to use them. Great protection on purchases doubling warranty time, and even protecting loss. Moving to Thailand will put me on a mostly cash basis I guess.
-
Bambina,
It's hard to imagine someone with you sense of humour being alone. Have no idea of your true age, but suspect that you are not too ancient. Along the road of life, I am convinced that there is someone special for everyone. After more than one failed marriages, have now been happily married for several years to my Thai wife, who apart from anything else happens to be my best friend, and I could simply not imagine life without her!
I too feel the same about my beautiful wonderful kindspirited sweet non nagging Thai wife, who laughs with me and at me and herself. She hasn't as much education as I but make no mistake about her intelligence, her drive, or her capacity for love and life. I only hope I can live forever as that in itself wouldn't be enough to bask in the warmth of her love.
But when the inevitable end comes, she'll be at the side of my bed comforting me with her presence and love.
-
Lonely - Akon
Lonely I'm Mr Lonely,
I have nobody,
For my owwnnn
I'm so lonely, I'm Mr. Lonely
I have nobody,
For my owwnnn
I'm so lonely,
Yo this one here goes out to all my playas out there ya kno got that one good girl whose always been there like ya Know took all the bullshit then one day she cant take it no more and decides to leave
I woke up in the middle of the night and I noticed my girl wasn't by my side, coulda sworn I was dreamin, for her I was Feenin, so I hadda take a little ride, back tracking ova these few years, tryna figure out wat I do to make it go bad, cuz Ever since my girl left me, my whole life came crashin
I'm so lonely (so lonely),
I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)
I have nobody (I have nobody)
To call my own (to call my own) girl
I'm so lonely (so lonely)
I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)
I have nobody (I have nobody)
To call my own (to call my own) girl
Cant belive I hadda girl like you and I just let you walk right outta my life, after all I put u thru u still stuck Around and stayed by my side, what really hurt me is I broke ur heart, baby you were a good girl and I had no right, I Really wanna make things right, cuz without u in my life girl
I'm so lonely (so lonely)
I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)
I have nobody (I have nobody)
To call my own (to call my own) girl
I'm so lonely (so lonely)
I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)
I have nobody (I have nobody)
To call my own (to call my own) girl
Been all about the world ain't neva met a girl that can take the things that you been through
Never thought the day would come where you would get up and run and I would be out chasing u
Cuz aint nowhere in the globe id rather be, aint noone in the globe id rather see then the girl of my dreams that made me Be so happy but now so lonely
So lonely (so lonely)
I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)
I have nobody (I have nobody)
To call my own (to call my own)
I'm so lonely (so lonely)
I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)
I have nobody (I have nobody)
To call my own (to call my own) girrll
Never thought that id be alone, I didnt hope you'd be gone this long, I jus want u to call my phone, so stop playing girl and Come on home (come on home), baby girl I didn't mean to shout, I want me and you to work it out, I never wished Id ever Hurt my baby, and its drivin me crazy cuz...
I'm so lonely (so lonely)
I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)
I have nobody (I have nobody)
To call my own (to call my own)
I'm so lonely (so lonely)
I'm Mr. Lonely (Mr. Lonely)
I have nobody (I have nobody)
To call my own (to call my own) girll
Lonely, so lonely
So lonely, (so lonely),
Mr. Lonely, so lonely
So lonely, so lonely, (so lonely), Mr. Lonely
[/quote
Don't know who wrote the song, but believe Bobby Vinton recorded it. I notice a verse I remember missing I think its
Lonely I'm Mister Lonely
Now I'm a soldier
A lonely soldier, away from home
Through no wish of my own
Lonely I'm mister lonely
I wish I had someone to call on the phone
-
Yeah, what's the drawbacks of the democratic party?
Also, given politicians are generally self-serving and corrupt to whatever extent do you begin to weigh that against the benefits they've brought, such as a healthy ecomomy?
Let me remember who was in power in the late ninties, when the baht fell so badly, the banks were failing under the weight of defaulted loans, the country had a large national debt, and the folks in power were buddies with George Sourus (sp) and oh yes corruption was as bad if not worse. Could it have been the DEMOCRATS, why yes I do believe thats true.
Today more people have jobs, the World Banks been paid off, there are 30 baht doctor visits, more people have a greater hope for the future, and I don't believe the Democrats helped much.
-
Any catching ideas .
I am due to go back to Melbourne ( Australia ) to reopen a business !
I am the landlord and the tenant did not commit to the lease.
I use to run this location a successful café shop before, but I am not interested to start again the same type of business!
What I am looking is a Thai café / restaurant open 7 days from lunch to dinner .
It is in a busy area , and my aimed is to look first after the local and second after the tourists !
Give your self a break, 7 days a week, lunch dinners a tough grind in a restaurant. Too much stress, take a day off.
-
So are being closed minded by not going to the BBC website and checking out piles of contradicting evidence?
What's your real motivation for not believing global warming isn't caused by us? One book surely isn't enough evidence. Are you per chance American and own a large SUV and a coal factory (that is tongue in cheek and not really aimed at you - no need to take offence).
;'
I didn't say I didn't go to the BBC site, just going there wasn't going to change my mind.
Historical evidence shows that the climate has always changed, heck the continents have changed. The one constant of life is change. I'm not getting into a chicken little frame of mind about global warming, theres just too much recent geologic evidence to follow the crowd. And once again I mention the suns increased output
Tp listen to enviormentalists that are leading the charge, certainly leads me to wonder how hypocritical are these people. Example Audobon Society pumps oil off its land in louisiana, another maybe WWF asked to drill on its land in Texas a few years back. Oh sure they're doing it to raise funds to do more for the enviorment, so that makes it ok
-
Dude are you trolling? Come on... how can you still not see it. Check this page out for a collection of evidence.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/sci_te...nge/default.stm
Most governments admit it's happening (that's not the problem) the problem is them doing anything about it - they are too self-serving. They are in power for a short time and dead almost sooner. Even if global warming is a myth (yeah right!!!), surely polluting the world as much as we do can't be overlooked. How blissful is ignorance really?
On the topic of peopel actually using green energy this guy has an interesting piece on the 4/40 gap. 40% of people want to use green stuff but only 4% do.
http://makower.typepad.com/joel_makower/20...ng_the_wal.html
Now I never mentioned pollution as not being real water soils and air are being polluted. But as for it being the source for global warming naw I don't buy it. Going to a BBC website isn't going to change my mind. I've a book authored by a French scientist, Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie " Times of Feast, Times Oo Famine" A history of climate changes for the last 1000 years.
As you know a number of factors go into the wine making process, the chief of these being the growth orf grapes.
The French it can be said, like their wine, its a taste and economic thing to them. They keep marvelous records on crop yields taste class of grapes etc Although they weren't using thermometers a thousand years back, what you recieved as a crop was totally in proportion to the weather, and what came with it basically rain, snow etc.
The point of above paragraph was to illustrate that a crude way to devine what occurred was an anylysis of these records as a part of her data.( Interesting way to gain research data, hanging around a winery)
What she summarized was weather occurs, it goes up in cycles it goes down in cycles. She is a dedicated climatologist, this isn't a book you write for profit.
Many scientist held the earth was flat, man couldn't fly ect it doesn't serve one well to always follow the crowd.
And I do resent being called a troll because I defer in viewpoint as you would being called a lemming by going with a crowd.
We've data to analyze what occurred before records or man. In the american west theres an area where they analyze soil deposition caused by ice dams. They're trying to figure out the cycle of these dams formation. They are formed when temperature falls for an extended period of time and then melts as it warms up. This isn't an ice age occurrance but simply a weather pattern, unknown causes.
I also resent your stating that I said global warming isn't happening. I never said that. I said I don't believe it mans fault, as the suns output of radiation has increased. Man cannot affect the sun, no matter how many large cars or factories he has, or in some folks ego.
-
Yes, Yes, Yes...ColPyat...I agree with you ( I was being sarcastic) Most of the people I know can not believe what Bush has done to the "world". I am totally against his policies!
U.S. bumper sticker...(with a reference to Clinton)
IF YOU CAN GET IMPEACHED FOR DIDDILING WITH AN INTERN, WHAT DO YOU GET FOR F###### THE WHOLE COUNTRY?
First it wasn't an impeachment for screwing around with an intern. It was for lying to a federal court in a sexual harassment case, brought against him under a law he signed with great potification
Second it'd be my guess that'd you'd prefer a mini Hitler to continue to murder tens of thousands of his own people to install the fear to not oust a member of a minority sect that weilded absolute control over their lives. The violence in Iraqi at this time is sectarian in nature. You have heard of Sunnis and Shites? But then again considering your usage of the clinton bumper sticker as a way to prop up your arguement, probably not.
-
Whenever I type on the comp. I get certain words underlined in red, telling me they are incorrectly spelt. I know computers are designed in USA, but it is still classed as the English language.
They tell me words like flavour, favour, are wrongly spelt. there are many other examples of this.
I know the yanks like to simplify our language, but to tell us the Collins dictionary is wrong is insulting. Why can't they accept both spellings as correct. It should'nt be too difficult.
I for one spell the English way. The way I was taught.
I don't bother spell checking or even proff reading. I just type and let it rip. If someone can't follow the thought through bad syntex or spelling,its ok with me. I don't sweat the small stuff.
-
I don't see where waste encased in concrete, then dropped into the mariana trench or a similiar trench of that depth would endanger anyone. Maybe the giant squids might mutate
But deep deep sea disposal shouldn't be much of a problem. Man feeds not on anything that lives at that depth. Isn't there a higher rate of background radioactivity at that depth anyhow due the production (deposit) of heavy elements at vents in the depths.
That's exactly it - you don't see how! No one saw how cane toads would ravage Australia when introduced or CO2 cause massive climate change. Don't try it unless your bloody well 100% positive. Nuclear waste has got some full on consequences - not something to just experiment with. Have you ever heard of biomagnification? A process where a chemical or toxin magnifies up the food chain. We may not eat out of that depth but something sure does - and the question is - do we eat that?
I go back to the higher level of background radiation found at these depths and what effect does it have on what lives there now. We all live with background radiation, and some die of it. Thats why radon levels are checked in homes. ( at least I had mine tested)What level would be emitted from concrete blocks vs what is found there naturally?
I still don't buy into the global warming caused by man, as temperatures on the planet have varied widely in the last millenium. Greenland was green and now its ice. If carbons caused by the burning of wood and coal caused the cooling, why aren't the petrol carbons causing even greater cooling. I go back to scientists in the late sixties telling us a new ice age was coming, er same scientists telling us the opposite now. The sun is hotter, global warming is occurring, by 1 degree over the past one hundred years. The ice shelf is breaking up in antartica at about the same rate its building up there thru snow deposition. we've always had breakup of sea ice. remember the Titanic, it found an iceberg.
-
Where did I mention that I was defending Islamists? Please don't put words into my mouth. Sadly some of the examples of terrorist acts that you gave prove my point that these people have nothing to do with Islam, otherwise how can they set bombs against their own fellow Muslims, and even inside Mosques?
I agree innocents die in wars, that is why it should avoided in the first place. But I don't believe that deliberately lunching rocket missiles on civilian villages and houses, knowing that children and women live there, is an unavoidable "collateral damage". Please try to explain this concept directly to the people who lost their families from the latest strike on the Pakistani village of Damadola for example.
Sunnis vs Shites biggest examples of religious people, killing their own faith. They're Muslims, they're religious and believe in same things. Intercine conflicts in Islam is the norm, not the abboration. You mentioned Jordan and the PLO in an earlier post. Jordan had to kill 20,000 PLO supporters to evict them from their country. They had been invited into Jordan in the first place but they proved to be the same problematic people in Jordan as they are in Palestine today.
So your stance is to be one of total submission, that no war is just, to appease those threating you in the first place. Is your last name Chamberlain? You use an example given great credence by the political correct libearal press of a rocketed villiage that a high ranking wierd beard was planning to be at. This villiage held innocents, but many of this village were Al Queada fighters. All people that are killed in this these conflict are always called innocents by the Arab press then called the same by the PCL western press so as not to offend. Then a hue and cry from the moral cowards gives more credence than should be given.
Its obvious you've not been in combat, but no soldier wants ever to kill a non combative, ever ever. It tears a person up to see people paricularily children whom have been hurt, maimed, or killed through your action, but war isn't pretty, it isn't nice, it isn't carrying signs and writing letters of protest to the press, it isn't turning your back on your allies or opposing political party because someone could get hurt. No war is simply about killing to obtain a political solution through action, somehow not obtainable through dialogue. Sometimes you have to draw a line in the sands, to punch the bully in the nose
Jaffy, that's not the kind of language we use at this forum, please try to act civillized.
Right. "We" only hate Muslims (even though we can't properly spell yet), and "We" hope to wipe them all out.
I guess it won't take long that someone will come up with irrefutable proof that they slaughter Christian children so they can use them in their Satanic rituals.
Seems that all is in order with the thread, innit?
Wasn't that far back three christian children were beheaded on their way to school in Indonesia, by Islamists. No satanic ritual;s reported, but the act in itself was satanic enough.
-
Nuclear just doesn't make sense - it's got so many flaws it's not funny. Why do these leaders push so hard for the destruction of the earth?
appeasment of the masses
i.e cheap energy,
no research and development, any problems left will be solved by the next generation or generations, one of the solutions for the waste was recycling or blieve it or not dump it on the moon, as the early waste was dumped in the sea and it should not be too long now to see if the cannisters it was stored in are going to deteriorate and leak or not, but that is this generations problem not the instigators, get the picture, [sad i know]
live for today f+kc tomorrow it seems
I don't see where waste encased in concrete, then dropped into the mariana trench or a similiar trench of that depth would endanger anyone. Maybe the giant squids might mutate
But deep deep sea disposal shouldn't be much of a problem. Man feeds not on anything that lives at that depth. Isn't there a higher rate of background radioactivity at that depth anyhow due the production (deposit) of heavy elements at vents in the depths.
-
Indo-Siam, I don't want to repeat again and again what some of the other posters have been saying, but I believe you have a very serious misunderstanding of the concepts of Islamists and Muslims. This is clearly shown in your example of the Munich Olympics, where the ideology of the terrorists had nothing to do with Islam. Of course you can call them Muslim Palestinians, but it is the same as calling Hitler, Stalline, and Milosevic as Christians.
To Thai3, Yes scores of innocent people, including children and women, have been killed by western troops in the villages of Afghanistan and recently even inside Pakistan, and who knows how many in Iraq. But nobody with a brain will of course link it to Christianity.
How many more scores of innocents have been murdered in Allahs name in Afgan. and Pak than the collateral damage your referring to. Innocents die in wars, its a sad fact, and not done deliberately like the Islamics your defending. Bombs set in markets, Mosques, shopping centers aren't targeting hard military targets, they're targeting innocents to murder, to provide terror, to enable them to control thru fear. Islam means submission, Islam means submission or death to all who oppose the will of the mullahs issueing orders, giving their interpretation through hadiths of the Quran.
-
[quote name='JemJem' date='200
You and some others fail to understand what me and some other humanists in here are trying to argue. Some people here don't discriminate between Muslims and Islamists. The Muslims I know personally have nothing to do with the infidel-hating, US/Israel flag-burning, terror-applauding bigots that some of the bigots here on our forum seem to think of as representing Muslims.
Jem
How I look at Muslims is how I look at the spouse of an alcoholic. They know who are the bad guys, yet remain silent or pliant, much as the spouse is the enabler of the alcoholic. Without the tacit agreement of Muslims, there could not be the plauge of Islamists visited on civilization. They care naught for our civilization, but only for control of it or its destruction.
Islam believes it as a religion can do no wrong, murder is simply a tool allowed by the Quran, the beheading or bombing of small children is allowable. Death is the sentence for leaving the Islamic religion to be carried out by any Muslim. One chapter in the Quran is oft quoted by Islam, the womens chapter, where tolerance is preached. Unfortunately theres not much tolerance in the rest of the Quran toward non muslims
-
I also tend to loiter around poles with a bag full of 7-11 stuff and for whatever reason I decide every day over and over to postpone my suicide.
Must be because I haven't figured out how to tape my hands behind my back, put a bag over my head and climb the pole.
Where did the article say his hands were bound behind his back? But hanging and putting a bag over his head is a bit of overkill. doesn't sound like the taking of ones own life.
-
I've always been curious about the amount of electricity used to light up office buildings at night. Every large city in the world is lit up like a christmas tree. It seems to me whether or not, your a signee of the Kyoto selective persecution treaty, you'd find ways to tone down this wasteful energy. I get the neon lights outlines the building for air traffic and aestetics. But a massive amount of energy is wasted, even on subdued settings. How many homes could that energy feed. And what of the cost to consumers, more energy used, equal higher overall cost to all, supply and demand.
Thailand has a very large coastline, coastlines generally are breezy places, and great places for wind generators, both large and small. I know in the US you can produce energy and actually reverse your electric meter. hence selling your extra capacity back to the power company when your demand is lower than your generation.
What about alternative home building, earth berming for example, utilizing the cooling capacity of soil to lower the homes temperature. Live next to cave? Cut a fan intake to cool your home.
Seems to me as a population we need to get smarter about our new constuction. I do like the photovoltaic lights mentioned, earlier, they make useful yard lights. Many have mentioned solar water heating, a great way to go, as I remember taking many cold showers high in the Andean mountains till I rigged up a really cheap system that operated well.
-
[
Hi
Following some earlier references to paedophilia which I did not understand I decided to do some research, sorry if this has been mentioned before but I have not read all of the 200+ posts.
Anyway a 'google' shed some light on the matter.
This prophet Mohammed was some guy, married between 16-22 times, according to all the scholars in his mid 50's he married Aisha aged 6 however being responsible gent he waited until she was 9 before consumating the marriage.
Not sure where Islam stands on re-incarnation, but Gary Glitter perhaps?
TBWG
Islam skirts this issue. I believe their position is the girl produced no offspring therefore the marriage was invalid. I could be wrong here, but thats how my memory has it recorded.
IMHO not many 9 year old children are capable off producing offspring as their bodies haven't matured enough to reproduce. But Islam needed an out on this and took it, typical Islam.
-
Your right of course, terrorist isn't quite the right description. I think theocratic murderers or just murderers will work for me, but isn't quite harshly descriptive enough.
The Saddam regime in Iraq was the only secular government in the region!
Bet you didn't know this.
Well Duh, I reckin I neve red a papear an didn' no thes. A good percentage of murderers in Allahs name in Iraq aren't even Iraqi's And if you notice there are over a hundred countrries where some form of Islamic murderers are operating. The Phillipines, Indonesia, Thailand, are certainly on your regional radar screen whether your being targeted or targeting innocents including fellow Muslims.
-
BTW, "terrorist" is one of these fashionable, overused phrases, whose meaning has been distorted beyond recognition...
I stop here, since this doesnt belong in this topic.
Your right of course, terrorist isn't quite the right description. I think theocratic murderers or just murderers will work for me, but isn't quite harshly descriptive enough.
-
>One of the most irritating aspects of fellow farangs is their lack of respect
>when your trying to take photos during the day. It seems they try to target
>your camera
It always seemed to me that if Songkran was ever held in any Western European country, it would end with cars being pushed in the moat, breaking windows, hooliganism. The further you get from tourists the better it is. (Which is why I don't really understand your preference for Thapae road??) (Loi Kroh I could understand, and I do make sure to spend at least an hour or two there
)
Another good road for example is the old Lamphun road (with the tall trees). As there's more shade around, it attracts cute girls who want to stay white.
Cheers,
Chanchao
I like the spot as my wife selects it
(Close to Noi's som tom across from Verichai court) And I know a few of the shop owners and employess in the area.
-
I am a Chinese and met a swiss guy working in BKK. I will be in BKK at the beginning of March.
I had a golden retriever that ate swiss cheese, but really the dog preferred sharp cheddar.
-
The saudian channel alarabiya TV. has used mind control machine for years as a weapon against
Egyptian target but it didn't give information on electro-magnetic waves that directly affect the
human brain and nervous system.
They don't know enough about human rights in middle east also about radio waves that might
destroy their nervous system ,the saudian channel deceive them and didn't give any details
see thisSo this is how tv has turned most of the world into couch potatoes. Oh the inhumanity
Opposition Dumps Thaksin's Election Plans
in Thailand News
Posted
Why would he not be elected democratically? as I recall votings a duty in Thailand. If your going to show up at the polls might as well vote. The sunni minority tried a boycott in the first Iraqi election, changed their tune the next election.
Big cities are generally democratic, as well as union. trade association etc but rural areas where the majority of people live are more conservative, they are people who have to work for life on its most basic level.
The majority of posters on this board come from socialist europe, they feel more comfortable with a nanny goverment, like the cradle to grave comfort of big brother watching over them, wiping their asses and giving them comfort. Hence the proliferation of prodemo posts, and anti Taksin messages found on this board. well I'm never voting in a Thai election and very ###### few of you will. I constantly read negativity against the PM but very few comments about whats occurred thats been good. I go with my Thai wife on this one, she points out all the good Taksins done vs what occurred before he took office. She has no reason to be happy with the man, didn't like him before he took office, and as she worked for a company that he owned and lost her job when he closed it, she certainly didn't vote for the man. But she recognizes what many things that've improved. 30 baht health visits, wipe out of world bank debt in such a short period of time, it surprised all, building projects all around the country etc..
I think alot people dislike the intrusion into their enjoyments, bars closing earlier, crackdown on drugs, an increase in what it takes to stay in Thailand monetarily etc None of which will affect me, I'm happily married, drink rarely , bars aren't my cup of tea anymore, and if I want live music I'll buy an electronic piano as I can't play my guitars anymore.
But I guess my point is most here wish to import their values from home and place them in Thailand. Same as Muslims wish to do in Europe(world) and many are starting to resent that. I say let the Thais decide, many on board have a tendency toward elitism, as if their smarter, better than the Thais. I'm not smarter or better than anyone, I recognize that fact, my values aren't necessarily thai values, although many coincide, but I'll not try to force them on anyone