smileydude

Here's my take on honesty that I think applies worldwide.  The majority of hardworking people who built up a small business by themselves are honest. 

Many of the experiences you mentioned seemed to be from dealing with these kind of people.

If the business has to do with tourists or targeting foreigners then shady figures start to get involved thus the cynicism you often see here.  We're talking jet ski operators, parasailing, banana boats, beach chairs, those 0 baht Chinese tour operators and gold diggers to round it off.

Dishonest people exist in all socioeconomic levels.  From CEO's who have only profits in mind all the way down to wandering gypsies.

Some people are corrupt at systemic levels while others just do it case by case.  

There was some research done recently on the corruptibility of people and it went like this:  A group of students were assigned to find spelling mistakes in some research papers.  Each mistake found was rewarded 5 baht per word.   They were separated into 2 groups.  Group 1 was allowed to report the mistakes and claim the money directly without having to go through an approval process.  Group 2 was required to have each mistake found checked and reimbursement rewards checked by someone.  The mistakes on each paper were actually controlled to 10 each.  Results?   Group 1 found on average 12-15 mistakes per paper.  Group 2 found 10.

The results seem to indicate that by nature people will be dishonest if there is an opportunity to do so and not be caught.

I personally believe honesty is something that was ingrained into us when we were growing up, either by our parents, teachers, religion or societal values and norms of where you grew up.

Total waste of taxpayer's money when there are so many more important crimes to solve then this eg. Red Bull heir, dead tourists on Koh Tao etc.

Really nice piece of land at a scenic viewpoint.  I've seen similar restaurants with great views like this along Malibu highway 1 but this ones really cutting it close to the street so imo shouldn't have been granted a license.

I'm guessing the local authorities approved of it both formally and informally but didn't think it would be a problem.

So the soap opera of givin them a slap on the back of the hand begins until the social media ruckus dies down.

Thai internet netizens love to play out injustices but unfortunately tend to have short attention spans and the authorities involved will play on that by dragging their feet in charade penalties.

Unfortunately Hollywood casting does not involve a screening ethics committee like most research.

It usually involves either removing your clothes or ego-eccentric half-witted ideas mistaken for creativity.

Some 70 year olds are very physically strong and can still do weights, running and other stuff.  Thing is we often forget that the degeneration of our joints/discs/ligaments has already happened and will progress faster as we age especially around the knee's, shoulders and lower back.  

We all see this problem in long distance runners and athletes who suffer from injuries and faster degeneration.  Humans aren't evolved to run excessively like horses.

They don't tend to live particularly longer then the average person and often suffer from muscularskeletal problems for the rest of their life.

IMO, swimming and 30-60 min daily walks at a comfortable pace is good cardiovascular exercise which has the least efffect on joints so you can maintain your health without the risk of future problems. 

Those who live the longest and healthiest tend to be the low stress balanced diet type of people but its not about how long we live but the quality of our golden life years so we have to start being kinder to our joints.

Oh and almost forgot.  Gotta keep that Dementia/Alzheimer's away.

Word puzzles and some of those games on your iPad are great ways to keep our brain alert or having a stimulating conversation with someone with more then half a brain and preferably pretty ain't bad either.

An eye for an eye, or in this case 40 eyes for 4 eyes.

I'm guessing the youths didn't play fair with the knife so the motorsai win guys wanted to ensure the same.

Violence leads to violence and there is no such thing as fairness in violence, unless its a sport.  

These youngin's never learn.

20 minutes ago, JSixpack said:

 

Good, thoughtful analysis, thanks for taking time to write it, not that many here besides me will read it. FWIW (not much) I thought the 30-baht scheme was crazy when they implemented it and never thought it could be sustainable. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. 

I appreciate that you took the time to read it and agree not many would care enough to read about it either.

I wrote it because there are always 2 sides to a story and wanted to share a bit of information about Thailand's healthcare system.

As we speak the debate between healthcare providers, payers and NGO's rages on with each side calling the other either unreasonable or protective of their self-interests.  I hope they find a compromise otherwise many will find themselves without coverage if the system collapses.

Human desperation is sad but human indifference and cruelty is even sadder.

1 hour ago, JSixpack said:

 

And for all those working in them, right down to the maids, and their extended families upcountry.

 

 

Many of the docs in private hospitals work in public also. Even in your own country the average person isn't going to have access to the top notch hospitals. If I get cancer, no way the Mayo Clinic is going to be treating it. Public hospitals, such as Chula, can be excellent and are affordable for expats. But of course the definition of affordable varies and for many an expat here really means pittance "free" as in "back home" free where they've paid many millions of baht in taxes for the "free." This would fit the pension and lack of savings. Nor would our expats be happy about helping to fund the public healthcare system themselves with a rise in visa fees. We remember the last time in 2003.

 

 

Despite the chorus of doomsters here, the economy is growing, as you may verify with a modicum of research. If you compare public healthcare in Thailand w/ what it was 20 years ago I think you'll find it much improved. Not to say it doesn't have far to go, esp. in rural areas. 

 

Valid points all of them but first let me clarify that I am a thai physician and have worked in both private and public healthcare for 20+ years and I'd like to add some points:

Yes I agree, not everyone in the US will have access to Mayo Clinic, MD Anderson or Cleveland clinic.  These speciality clinics were often started as non-profit organizations but they are not charities.  Private hospitals exists for a reason and that is to provide quality healthcare to those who can afford it.  Many US citizens who are not affluent do STILL have access to quality healthcare if they can afford insurance.

In the UK, the NHS basically ensures access to everyone who is a resident albeit the waiting list for elective surgeries such a hernia's is long due to the limitations, thus private hospitals are an option.  There is no free meal but the situation in Thailand has much to be improved.

The situation for the 3 public healthcare system in Thailand, Universal coverage scheme (UCS), Civil Servant Medical Benefit Scheme (CSMBS) and Social security scheme (SSS) is such that the UCS is paying much less per case to the provider (majority of government hospitals under the Ministry of Public health) such that many are losing money and accounts are in the red.  As for the SSS, many private hospitals participate, but most members feel they are treated to sub par treatment due to the paradox of fixed capitation/per head (2200 baht/patient/year) and the hospitals trying to make a profit.  Everybody in the CSMBS is generally satisfied because it pays higher per service relative to the UCS.  An example, the UCS reimburses a hospital around 1 RW (relative weight) = 9800 baht per appendectomy.  The CSMBS reimbursement rate is about on average 30,000/ appendectomy case.  You'd probably pay for an appendectomy anywhere between 50,000- 200,000 at a private hospital.  No hospital can provide an appendectomy for 9800 baht.  True, government hospitals objectives are not to make a profit but they are not built as charities either.

Right now many university hospitals such as Chula, Siriraj and most public hospitals are playing a game of Robin Hood.  They prefer and take enough money from CSMBS patients to subsidize the loses incurred from treating UCS patients.  I don't know if you are aware but universities hospitals are NOT REQUIRED to accept UCS and SSS patients in primary and secondary care (where most of the loses occur) but mainly accept tertiary care (advanced case such as heart surgery and catherization) for purposes of training and humanity.  

Now here are some facts.  UCS has 42 million members with costs subsidized from taxes.  CSMBS has 5 million members with costs subsidized from the government budget. SSS has approx 10 million members with their budget from employers, employees and the government.  The budget per head for CSMBS is 10 times that for UCS.  The disparity is appalling and is apparent in the quality of healthcare each group is receiving as economics rules. Moral hazards abound.  Does a doctor want to use a different treatment protocol for a patient with the same disease from each type of healthcare group?  No, but the reality is they must otherwise the hospital they work for will incur heavy loses, again moral hazards and economics at play that shape the current healthcare system in Thailand today.

 Private hospital patients feel first class.  CSMBS feel 2nd class.  SSS feel 3rd class and UCS patients feel like they are at the bottom without choice.  JCI ensures you are getting quality service at private hospitals.  Hospital accreditation (HA) ensures that most SSS and UCS hospitals must maintain their basic standards so we DO still have standards but the variation between hospitals is more then outsiders will ever know.

The solution is currently being debated between the payers and providers of the 3 healthcare systems.  Co-payment schemes for those who are actually earning income like farmers, hawkers and all those in the non-formal workforce but don't pay taxes and are using the UCS system are trying to be enacted for some self-responsibility.  Research from all around the world has proven that if anything is free and co-payment is non-existent will result in 3 problems that will bankrupt the system:  

First many unnecessary visits to the hospital and subsequent burden and costs incurred by providers when in fact patients you could stay home, drink lots of fluids and get well after a few days of rest without the need of over-prescription of antibiotics.

Second:  Free medication often results in less patient compliance to take your medication on time as instructed.  Free medication is less valuable then if you have to pay for it.  Disease progresses when it should not, complications arise and costs too, again.

Third:  Patients often do not have any behavioral incentive to take care of themselves if free medical care is available.

There are other solutions such as registering those WHO are truly in poverty to receive healthcare free of charge.  Currently 12 million are registered but academics debate that many times the income of those in the non-formal workforce alternate between sufficient and insufficient each year.  Where do we draw the line?

All in all the disparity between the 3 healthcare systems in Thailand has much to be addressed before it all collapses due to the unsustainable nature of each.

Medical tourism is a great source of income (for private hospitals) but all the fanfare and priorities seem to be more then a wee bit lopsided.   I'd also like  to see better standards for the public health system as people living here (locals, expats, migrant workers etc. ) should all have access to affordable health care and not have to pay an arm and a leg at the mercy of these so called "top notch hospitals."  

If all the speciality medical knowledge, tech and service is geared towards private interests rather then public when will the country as a whole move forward?

Better health = opportunities = education = productivity = growing economy

I don't think Thai men are exceptional to not crying.  Thai men are certainly not as mashicsmo as say the South Americans.

Certain situations would make any grown man cry.  As a physician back in 2004 I volunteered in the south to help the Tsunami victims.

By the time I got there the only work left was collecting DNA samples and tagging bodies with ID chips for future identification.

I came across the body of a young male child, at most 4 years old in a rigor mortis state still clutching a toothbrush.  His tragic death must have come so sudden.  I could not hold back tears.

Society often identifies crying with weakness when they should be looking at it with some sort of empathy depending upon the situation.

As someone who works in a hospital I'd say the quoted numbers do sound wrong.  More like 570,000 for the entire surgery but everything is here say as not all facts on the news, especially social media are fact-checked and no one has to take responsibility for shady reporting and jumping to conclusions is even more pandemic nowadays then when people use to just whisper into each other's ears.

More importantly the guy is still alive.  

He should have had travel insurance.  

He needs to be more careful next time because traveling alone is not the smartest thing to do.   

Accidents do happen and when they do and require medical care YOU are responsible for yourself.

1 hour ago, ChangMaiSausage said:

570,000 per night something wrong with the reporting here.

 

90,000 over 4,000gbp for knee / leg repairs again this seems a little on the high side.

 

The British embassy is involved, wow a first they want him to fly to the main land.  I would have thought his insurance would take care of all this?  Or is it void, did he have insurance?

 

Just like an episode of East Enders all doom and gloom dadadadadaddddddaaaaaaa.

Bag snatching can happen to anyone at anytime especially when your busy doing something such as talking on the phone or even feeding stray dogs.  That's what thiefs look for, distracted victims.  Best thing you can do is to be aware of your surroundings and not put yourself in a situation where your an easy target but I'd count them luckier then the student who got stabbed for his iPhone.  

Pattaya isn't known for its safe community so any further generalizations about Thailand, Thainess etc. are just cynical and malicious.

8 hours ago, the guest said:

Don't waste your breath, it's only a foreigner. The only value they have in Thailand, is the money they spend. Everyone knows nothing will come from this, and it will be swept under the carpet. Thailand for Thais !

This is just not true. If it were a poor uneducated local found dead in such circumstances no one would bat an eyelid either.

Right now our best hope for justice is social media and the understated pressure it seems to have nowadays in finding the truth.

Local operators of businesses that benefit from tourism need to also start piling the pressure too.

It's just sad another young life is lost.  Its an understatement to say I don't trust the police very much.  I have more trust in non-police affiliated forensics doctors like Dr. Pornthip.  Yeah she made a mistake with the GT 2000 handheld bomb search thingy but that scammed everyone on a national level.

A lot of young lives have been lost recently in Koh Tao and if the local BIB think they can sweep everything under the rug then we as Thai's need to start demanding answers and accountability from everyone responsible for the safety and security of people on that island as well as the whole country.   Maybe the PM needs to start using section 44 and have some heads rolling to get things going.  

It seems those in power may only react when the fire is burnin near their butts as the Thai saying goes....

I don't think Thailand needs any Watch List to tell them that a lot more still needs to be done before human trafficking is gone and they can pat themselves on the back.

Walking evil in its purest form.  Btw I thought pictures of the police and suspects were now banned by our dear PM??

It is so sad these children should ever have to witness something so tragic.  I cannot begin to imagine what must have been going on in their minds.  I hope somehow they can get on with their lives and find happiness as adults without being scarred for life.

Koh Tao residents need to help solve the case instead of trying to hide or suppress it.   You can't hide a bad reputation if it keeps on happening but you can improve it if it doesn't happen again.

Perps who commit crimes usually blab out something sooner or later so if you dig deep and long enough leads do often surface and locals are the best chance to get this kind of information.  Besides Thai cops seem to be better at knowing who to talk to once a small reward is offered then doing real CSI  work.

There are people from every country or race in the world who steal, are obnoxious, unpleasant etc.   NO need to say whether its a farang, Thai, Chinese, Russian etc and then try to slap the whole race with some kind of label of being this and that.  

Just like the Thai who cussed at the Burmese lady who ran over his foot with a food cart.  The guy is an <deleted>, end of story, no need to start going into a tirade about all Thai's thinking they are all superior to our neighbors as it just isn't fair and a rather ignorant statement. Some say the Japanese think they are the superior Asian race.  Who cares what SOME Japanese think.  Most of them are humble and helpful from my experience so I'm not going to label them with some WW II ideology crap.

Most of the news on Thai Visa seems to start with racial profiling statements which just reeks of sowing division and bringing out the cynicism in us for entertainment/debate between the haters and lovers.

The Thai's on the internet saying she is white trash, cheap Charlie's and should be thrown out are just as guilty of being ignorant and racist.

This story is nothing more then a young lady who thinks little of stealing and needs to be thrown in jail to learn her lesson.

3 hours ago, mok199 said:

ouch.....mabey if you take time to read all the posts..mine 0955 go back a page ,my thought is posted..yes that was a cheap shot at dexjr555 ,but I apologized and I think we are cool..cheers

Didn't see your previous post but have now read it and see that you made some practical suggestions.  

It's cool....cheers.

On 6/14/2017 at 5:07 PM, mok199 said:

sorry you took the time to read it,,i moved on after the fist sentence...

Good for you buddy.  So what's your wisdom on this problem if you have anything to add that is constructive?

On 6/14/2017 at 4:30 PM, Artisi said:

That's a long winded presentation of the bleeding obvious. 

What may be obvious to you may not be obvious to others but some of us feel better about ourselves after belittling others.

Often the drivers are also the owners of the van and are trying to make as many trips as possible to maximize their income.  

In other cases the owners of the vans have incentives for the drivers to make as many trips as possible to their maximize their own profit.  

In either case,  lax enforcement of labor laws/ regulations regarding how many consecutive hours you can work and how much rest is required between these hours plus greed is to blame.

Nobody really cares until some celebrity or hi-so dies then society forgets and the vicious cycle continues.

The whole problem is Thai society has not yet developed to the level where the concepts of accountability or the value of each human life regardless of their socioeconomic status as much as more advanced countries.

We are stuck in our economic materialistic concerns and Thailand 4.0 bs.

It never seems to comes out as fast as it goes in .....just like many activities in life