Mister Fixit

I still think the ED visas are a scam though, just a way of staying in Thailand for some spurious reason.

A spurious reason just like retirement ?

You are talking apples and oranges - can't compare the two.

I'm not sure you can learn German. The point of an ED visa is to learn the Thai language and culture, not to study other languages.

Some skanky language schools may let you get away with is, but I suspect it's an abuse of the ED visa conditions if you learn any language other than Thai.

Some idiot has already been touting his school ad nauseam on TV, and I'd be very happy if the Immi police started looking into the status of some of these 'language schools'.

Technically it is called a Study Visa and you can study anything you want. It's just that the Thai language schools got on the bandwagon to drum up biz because no-one was attending them and there are no set study hours or exams to pass. So most of these schools have an "Open Door" policy.

However you can study golf there are several PGA courses available in Thailand plus just about everything else. German is a valid option.

I'll take your word for it until I can check.

I still think the ED visas are a scam though, just a way of staying in Thailand for some spurious reason. I mean, this chappie is charging 25 grand or so for an ED visa for 180 hours of study, and assuming about 5 grand for the visa, then it's about 110 - 120 baht pEr hour IN A CLASS OF TEN.

So that's say, 1200 baht an hour the school gets, and what does the teacher get? If a Thai, about 200 baht an hour ...

Nice work if you can get it ...

Golf? Pfffttt!

Ah, at last I understand the 'O-I' stamp that was mentioned on the other thread (how many threads on this on TV now? Seems like a dozen - mods please consolidate)

It means an 'Out and In' border run. Right, gotcha. Er, wouldn't it have been useful to have explained this at the time, Mr Immigration Boss?

Logical ?

Doesn't work here ...

Not having a go but.

While your learning thai and not doing visa runs all is good .

But when you've finished studying thai language .

Unless your over 50 (, retirement visa )

Your back to square one with a grasp of Thai language .

Which in all honesty can only be used in thailand.

So basically it's a break from visa runs.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You can learn Thai for 5 years... then you switch to learning German for 5 years... so you can do that for 10 years. It's 20,000 Baht for the whole year usually.

I'm not sure you can learn German. The point of an ED visa is to learn the Thai language and culture, not to study other languages.

Some skanky language schools may let you get away with is, but I suspect it's an abuse of the ED visa conditions if you learn any language other than Thai.

Some idiot has already been touting his school ad nauseam on TV, and I'd be very happy if the Immi police started looking into the status of some of these 'language schools'.

Jesus wept, is this thread still burbling on?

Mods, time to call a halt, it's been done to death.

I'm trying to understand her timeline of visa-runs:

After arriving in Phuket in October, Ms Sgibneva left to get a three-month tourist visa in November. She then completed a visa run in February. Subsequently, she left the country on March 21 for a visa run, then again to visit friends in Kuala Lumpur on March 30 and April 18.

- Arrives sometime in October, (presumably by air ==> 30 day visa exempt)

- Leaves within that 30 days to get a 3-month tourist visa

- 3 month tourist visa expires sometime in February and she does (I assume) a 15-day visa-run to Ranong

- Another Ranong visa-run on March 21st (so she must have been on overstay) - gets 15 days

- Leaves (assume by air) to visit friends in KL, not on overstay

- Returns from KL on unknown date, will get 30 days visa-exempt

- Goes again (assume by air) to KL to visit friends, not on overstay

Now unless immigration know something about her that we do not know (criminal etc), it looks like she did 2 visa-runs to Ranong, (one on overstay), and left Thailand well within the validity of her subsequent visa exempts.

So why was she denied entry at the airport???

Because she's a known (or strongly suspected as being) 'working girl'?

Not saying she is, but there's an awful lot of single Russian girls in Phuket who are. She was lucky she was arrested at the airport where she could get a flight quickly. If she'd been refused entry at Ranong, where on earth would she go?

How do you know the Phuket police haven't been keeping an eye on her and other girls, using the re-entry as an excuse to get rid of them bit by bit, without having to go through all the faff of arresting them and doing all the deportation paperwork?

Just as well Pattaya doesn't have an international airport ...

Yes, she was working but not as you describe. Please read the thread.

Having trawled my way through this meandering thread, yes, you are quite right, and I apologise for any slur I may have cast on this young lady.

Having said that, she was pretty daft putting herself on LinkedIn and for not having a notion of what the visa rules were ...

I wonder if the boss of th perpetraors will make them cough up towards his hospital care, or do so himself?

Assistant Manager at Sea Bees Diving in Phuket, without a visa or work permit?

http://th.linkedin.com/pub/mariia-sgibneva/94/710/530

Well, that was a bit f*cking stupid, wasn't it? Advertising yourself working illegally, like an idiot.

She deserves being turned away - what a brainless clot. Does she think that Thais can't trawl the net like anyone else?

Dead easy - have an iffy entry/re-entry profile, be Russian, young and good-looking, and be told to 'just wait here' and the Immi chaps whack her into Google. Silly cow.

I wonder will they mount the operation in disguise,as per Chalerms previous cunning plan.

Goggles only. He'll likely lead them out the cargo door personally and organise them into a 'CAPO' formation.

Aka the 'bell-end' formation ...

Let's see how many Thais WANT to go to Russia, or even know where it is ...

My feeling, on both counts, is about 1 a year.

That number might be a little low but... I'm guessing that those annual Russian-bound Thais would probably all fit in my living room anyway.

You have a small living room, then?

Look first thing it is clearly stated in embassy website how to get proper visa yet you knuckleheads come and sidetrack around the rules which harms those of us that go by the rules respect the laws and customs. Then you whine about how bad you were treated get a life. First if not 55 or older you need 800,000 baht in thai bank account. You can't work in any form while here. You come here disrespect The people and culture work without permit taking jobs from local Thais. Act as if the country owes you a favor get a clue your a guest here act like one. Go by the rules and all is good try funny stuff and get the boot.

Wow! You HAVE been drinking some strange brew ...

And you are also wrong - IF 50 or older you can apply for a retirement visa IF you have 800k or more in a Thai bank, NOT before you are 50!

Anyone from an appropriate country can come into Thailand on a 30 day stamp, or an appropriate visa - they DON'T have to have 800k. They have to show 20,000 baht.

You got it a*se about face.

I believe the shit may well hit the fan over this incident and the inevitable others which will follow.

I hope she's already notified the Russian Embassy about this as I believe she was singled out for being a Russian. If she wasn't a russian it wouldn't have happened.

Note to Mariia when you read this - please contact your Embassy to make an official complaint about this incident.

Yep. This will be the begining of all Russian and western tourists deserting Thailand causing economic collapse which will bring Thailand to it's knees.

I believe there is a clearly defined reciprocal agreement between Russia and Thailand. Lets see how many Thai's get booted out of Russia.

Let's see how many Thais WANT to go to Russia, or even know where it is ...

My feeling, on both counts, is about 1 a year.

“The first question they asked was if I had a departing ticket from Thailand – I didn’t. But not a big deal, I could buy one.

Not a big deal? So failing to comply with Thai immigration law is not a big deal? Proof of an onward ticket is a clear requirement of Thai immigration if the passenger does not possess a valid visa. I am surprised the airline allowed her to board, as check-in agents have checked this on every flight I have taken in the last five years. Also, by allowing such an occurrence, airlines (Air Asia in this case) are liable for the air fare back out and they can also be fined.

Singled out for being Russian? Sorry, but Thai immigration were following the letter of the law, and the outward bound ticket/sufficient funds requirements are both part of the law. If anything, it appeared that Immigration were willing to be lenient by asking her to prove sufficient funds when she could not produce an outward bound ticket. And I would not be surprised if this woman displayed a bit of attitude to the immigration officers and perhaps told them that it was "not a big deal" and went on whining about being singled out because she was Russian.

From Thailand-immigration.org - requirements for Russians

Citizens of Russia are permitted to stay up to 30 days under the Bilateral Agreement with Thailand if entering via international airport or through a land border checkpoint from a neighboring country, e.g., Laos, Myanmar and Cambodia.

Please note that you must be in possession of the following if you wish to visit Thailand:

1. A valid passport.

   You will need a passport valid for at least 6 months following your departure date. It is also recommended that your valid passport have at least 2 remaining unused pages for any necessary entry and exit stamps that may be issued.

2. A confirmed travel itinerary
3. Proof of funds and accommodation.

   Says it all, and I suspect she didn't bother checking.

After arriving in Phuket in October, Ms Sgibneva left to get a three-month tourist visa in November. She then completed a visa run in February. Subsequently, she left the country on March 21 for a visa run, then again to visit friends in Kuala Lumpur on March 30 and April 18.

Despite the article using the term "visa run," what it looks like she did was make/attempt four or five pretty much back-to-back visa-exempt entries in a 6-7 month period of time - separated by only one actual tourist visa.

That does seem to be the kind of behavior that the new crackdown on consecutive visa exempt entries is aimed at.

The article says she didn't want to go back to her home country, Russia. So what exactly has she been doing in Thailand for all these months???

Take a guess ...

I'm trying to understand her timeline of visa-runs:

After arriving in Phuket in October, Ms Sgibneva left to get a three-month tourist visa in November. She then completed a visa run in February. Subsequently, she left the country on March 21 for a visa run, then again to visit friends in Kuala Lumpur on March 30 and April 18.

- Arrives sometime in October, (presumably by air ==> 30 day visa exempt)

- Leaves within that 30 days to get a 3-month tourist visa

- 3 month tourist visa expires sometime in February and she does (I assume) a 15-day visa-run to Ranong

- Another Ranong visa-run on March 21st (so she must have been on overstay) - gets 15 days

- Leaves (assume by air) to visit friends in KL, not on overstay

- Returns from KL on unknown date, will get 30 days visa-exempt

- Goes again (assume by air) to KL to visit friends, not on overstay

Now unless immigration know something about her that we do not know (criminal etc), it looks like she did 2 visa-runs to Ranong, (one on overstay), and left Thailand well within the validity of her subsequent visa exempts.

So why was she denied entry at the airport???

Because she's a known (or strongly suspected as being) 'working girl'?

Not saying she is, but there's an awful lot of single Russian girls in Phuket who are. She was lucky she was arrested at the airport where she could get a flight quickly. If she'd been refused entry at Ranong, where on earth would she go?

How do you know the Phuket police haven't been keeping an eye on her and other girls, using the re-entry as an excuse to get rid of them bit by bit, without having to go through all the faff of arresting them and doing all the deportation paperwork?

Just as well Pattaya doesn't have an international airport ...

She attempted to enter the country without an exit airline ticket or proof of forward travel nor could she prove sufficient funds.

I have been aware of both of these requirements before I ever made my first trip to LOS and believe they have been requirements for several years.

Has she actually denied working in the country? She looks like a nice lady and this is a very unfortunate incident; however, at the very least, she appears to have been very casual about the rules.

She does look a nice lady and I'm sure many of her customers think so too ...

However, if arriving without a proper visa, there IS a requirement to show you have sufficient funds for your stay - which is 20,000 baht. This has always been the case but has never really been applied until now. That's why, whenever I leave the country, I take my Thai bank book and ATM card with me even though I am on an 'O' visa - just in case.

My guess is that the Immi chaps took her for a 'working girl' when they saw all the back to backs and started applying the rules rigorously - 'where's your 20 grand in Thai money?' etc. They wouldn't be interested in seeing funny money roubles and so on (maybe because they couldn't 'appropriate' some...

A genuine tourist would have a return ticket and would probably have changed some money into Thai baht in their home country. It's all on the Immi website, and she obviously has a smartphone because she accessed her Russian bank from Phuket, so she really has no excuse.

Interesting I wonder how someone like me when I was working in Singapore and flying back on the weekends to Thailand would be treated under the laws mooted for August.

Offshore workers and many business people also fly in and out regularly and don't have tourist visas.

It would seem a bit silly if they were denied entry on the basis of coming to Thailand too often.

You should have a 'proper' visa for Thailand of whatever type and have a multiple re-entry permit

Someone requested a translation of the Thai text include in the article. My (unofficial) translation follows as a public service.

แนวทางปฏิบัติของ สตม.ในการตรวจคนเข้าเมืองของบุคคลสัญชาติเป้าหมาย เช่น เกาหลี ฯลฯ มีดังนี้

In practice, the Office of Immigration, in checking persons entering the country, for persons nationalities such as Korean, etc., shall be thus:

1.ห้ามมิให้ด่านชายแดนมีการอนุญาต Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run เพื่อให้ได้รับสิทธิในการอยู่ในราชอาณาจักรต่อเนื่องที่มิใช่เหตุผลเพื่อการ ท่องเที่ยว

1. Immigration stations are not allowed to permit Visa run-type Out-Ins that are intended to get the right to live in the Kingdom continuously, that are not for purposes of tourism.

2.กรณีเดินทางโดยอากาศยานหากตรวจพบว่าอาจเป็นการ Out-In ในลักษณะของ Visa run ให้ว่ากล่าวและแนะนำให้ผู้นั้นดำเนินการขอ Visa ให้ถูกต้องตามวัตถุประสงค์ของการเข้ามาในราชอาณาจักร แล้วอนุโลมให้เข้า ตั้งแต่บัดนี้จนถึงวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 โดยทำเครื่องหมาย O-I ไว้บริเวณรอยตราประทับ และหลังจากวันที่ 12 ส.ค.57 เป็นต้นไป หากเจ้าหน้าที่ตรวจพบเป็นการ Out-In ให้ปฏิเสธการเข้าเมืองผู้นั้น

2. In the case of travel through airports, if the agent discovers that it might be a Visa run-type Out-In, the agent shall comment and advise the traveler to request a visa by the proper procedure to enter the Kingdom, then allow the traveler to enter. From the present until 12 Aug 2557, issue seal type O-I in the traveler's passport. After 12 Aug 2557, if the agent discovers Out-In, deny entry to the traveler.

หมายเหตุ หากผู้ปฏิบัติมีข้อสงสัยหรือพบปัญหาติดต่อ พล.ต.ต.ชิษณุพงศ์ ยุกตะทัต หรือ พล.ต.ต.ณัฐธร เพราะสุนทร รอง ผบช.สตม. แล้วแต่กรณี

Comment: If the practicing agent has questions or encounters problems, contact Police General Chisanuphong Yooktatat or Police General Natatorn Phrawsoonthorn, commanders of Immigration, depending on the case.

Unfortunately this pretty well means nothing.

1 It seems to assume that back to back ('Out-in')15 or 30 dayers by road are banned with immediate effect but it does not specifically say so.

2 If a person comes in via an airport without a visa then until 11 Aug, if an Immi office thinks the person is trying to do a back to back ('Out-in') they'll be allowed in with an O-I visa (what's that?) and told to come in with a proper visa next time, but for how long will this O-I last? A year? Ninety days? Until 11 August? And can they explain what a visa O-I is?

3 If a visitor feels they have a problem, they should contact the two top people in Immigration for a resolution, but how? No phone number, no email address nothing. Typical Thai style - won't be available, and don't want to be encumbranced by actually doing some work ...

That's no hardship ...

Even Amazon pay tax in the country their business is registered in!

Bwahahahahaha!! Amazon pay taxes?

You should read Private Eye a bit more often - Amazon are worse than Vodafone for tax evasion ....

'Mr Thaksin won elections fair and square'?

Not if you understand that he paid voters 500 baht each to vote for him and also told villages that if they didn't vote for him they couldn't expect any help from his Government ...

Yes there is this Germany where the Mercedes come from and that Ameriga where that English language comes from, but I doubt there is much more outside Thailand and if than just uncivilized Barbarians.

Everyone must know that Thailand is the center of the world.

Er, I don't think so, ignoramus ...

Last time I looked it came from where I come from - England ... You're Thai, aren't you? See previous posts re Thai lack of knowledge of geography, history, or pretty much anything that required thinking processes ...

Oh, and by the way, it's America - you have to be Thai using gor gai instead of a hard 'c'. Like, er, kor kwai ...?

Foot - shoot - BULLSEYE!!!!