backtonormal

It seems The Nation may have misunderstood. The other newspaper mentions a complaint to be raised with the ICC. Now that makes more sense.

Interestingly it also mentions that Pheu Thai party list MP Charuphan said since the cabinet had ratified the ICC Rome Convention of 2000 in 2009

They've read your post, rubl.

and address both points in their latest.

Sunai to file complaint with ICC over deaths of 91 reds

Pheu Thai MP Sunai to petition ICC against the 91 killed during military crackdown last year.

Pheu Thai MP Sunai Julponsathorn said Monday he will petition the International Criminal Court (ICC) at the Hague on December 9 to take up the crime against humanity case against the 91 who were killed during the military crackdown on red shirts in April and May last year.

Sunai said the move is aimed at making sure that there will be no suspicion that the current Pheu Thai government will interfere with the ongoing investigations by the local authorities.

Sunai, who is Chairman of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs, said he will use his own money for the travel and many red shirts in Europe have organized everything for him.

Sunai said both then Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva and his Deputy Suthep Thuaksubhan will have to be accountable as they were in charge of the crackdown last year.

Pheu Thai Party-list MP Kattiyar Sawasdiphol, whose father Maj Gen Kattiya Sawasdiphol was shot and killed by sniper fire last year said there has been no progress in the investigation of her father’s death and thus she is counting on the ICC to take up the case.

Thailand however is not among 119 member states to the ICC. It has not yet ratified the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

The Nation - 19 minutes ago

.

This: Sunai said the move is aimed at making sure that there will be no suspicion that the current Pheu Thai government will interfere with the ongoing investigations by the local authorities.

is most important. After over 12 months of the DEms stalling the process an independant body may be the way forward. Everybody needs to know the story from both sides. Let the Reds present there evidence and the ex Gov and army present theirs. The PT mp sure is confident and good luck for appearing to do the right thing. Its nots just the relatives of the deceased that need answers its the group that where badly injured by sniper bullets. Snipers attempted to kill people(over 2000 sniper rounds fired),under orders, and if it were not for luck, crosswinds and poor shooting the death toll could have quadrupled.

What ever side your allegiance the same questions need answering if we want reconcilliation

1 Who gave the orders

2. What were those orders

3. Who were the orders given too

4. were those orders obeyed

5. If disobeyed, who made the decision to disobey.

I am sorry some Dem supporters dont see this stage in the reconcilliation process but it will happen

Chalerm claimed an 8 percent kickback was demanded on the deal to construct the mass transit lines, which influenced the Japanese International Cooperation Agency to cancel its contract with Sino Thai Engineering Company

So the Japanese backed out and are therefore NOT a part of this corruption case. But what about Sino Thai? If they are involved they too should be called to explain....

The guilty are not just those that take in corruption but those who give as well.....

Maybe the Japanese explained to Mr Thaksin on his recent visit. A good will gesture to help PT fight corruption. It strikes me that Mr T is fighting a corruption conviction, what a better way to get to the amnesty by showing how corrupt the opposition is.

Get real!

Dems tried to back off Bhum Jai too, but didn't have the leverage at the time.

This is only revenge, if he was serious he'd go after his own partners.and THAT will never happen.

Ahh, so now you are claiming that the Democrats and the former PM Abhisit were forced to include the BJT in their administration. That's nice, but no one forced PM Abhisit to include the BJT. The current government also had to build a coalition, yet the government either by sheer luck or some political smarts did not include what is now a massive liability. Had the BJT party been included in the current government, I believe you and the usual gang of PTP bashers would have been screaming about corruption and blaming PM Yingluck for activities that appear to have occurred during the previous military junta administration and that carried on into the Democrat administration.

I am not accusing PM Abhisit for the alleged corruption, but it is obvious, that the gentleman's political accuity was not very good. it seems the former PM's quest for power and political opportunism has come back to bite him in his buttocks.

Please note that Deputy PM Chalerm is not implicated in the corruption, nor are the PTP's own partners. The allegations rest in the little corner of the political landscape that have BJT, Democrat and military junta territorial markers.

Newin turned on Thaksin and said ' its over boss' then he scurried to that army barracks and cobbled together a facade for more military rule. Thaksin wants revenge on Newin and Sondhi (two that turned on him) and we must ask ourselves is this the first or the only shot across across the enemies bows. Newin was dumped early because he was not to be allowed to use PT immense popularity to increase his vote share. How many from the last government have now got a squeaky bum. Bring it on, bring em down

It seems to be the only choice.

I feel sorry for the PAD members...hard month to come and many will be killed by the criminal government.

Geriatric terrorists. Them army snipers have had no practice for a while. If its good for them red oiks its good for the yellow cronies. If Sondhi is serious and the yellows set up camp, take over airports, block up the city even burn buildings not one army trigger will be pulled.

I hope that the Thai people can now see what this man's (no he is not a man he is a despicable individual) and the PTP's priorities are.

The worst flood in 50 years and do they try to assist the people who are affected?

No! Thier number 1 priority is to get amnesty for a convicted criminal.

Shame! Shame! Shame!

What a nonsense comments. When the world was at war do you think respective governments did not talk about and plan for other things. Yes the floods are tragic but the world moves on. Sorry forgot the Dems and its cronies live in the past and want to keep it that way

I'm not exactly a fan of both sides and I think that bringing Thaksin back will not be in anyway beneficial to Thailand. It's a start of another crisis.

As a guest of the country and unable to vote I think it wise that Farangs should keep their views to themselves Big Brother is watching YOU !!!!

Wait...a...minute...... Are you implying that the government has English speaking experts reviewing comments made on ThaiVisa, and are preparing a blacklist to send us away ??? No problem, as I would not want to live in such a repressive country anyway. Also I will add my two satang, that Thaksin coming back will be the worst thing that ever happened to this country. And the Thai cabinet passing this endorsement in secret is standard behavior for this group of clowns..... :jap:

I dont have to worry about the boss coming home my colours are nailed. People like Sondhi and his mates will be kacking it 55555. I believed that the amnesty would be a trade for the guilty parties involved in the Rachaprasong crackdown but now it looks like they dont have anything to barter with. Taxi for Mark

I'm not exactly a fan of both sides and I think that bringing Thaksin back will not be in anyway beneficial to Thailand. It's a start of another crisis.

As a guest of the country and unable to vote I think it wise that Farangs should keep their views to themselves Big Brother is watching YOU !!!!

Barely veiled threat?

Hey Kopite what makes you think most of the anti Thaksin comments on here come from Farangs

Burma was an English colony.

It has millions of English speakers train by the British (the real McCoy).

Why not just hire Burmese English Teachers. Cheap and good.

Great idea but 'the loss of face' just imagine.. our poor neighbours teaching us.how dare they. Truth is they dont really want the masses talking English

I wonder why Jutaporn has not been indicted on accessory charges. These reds were only following his orders as one of the red leaders. During one of his democracy speeches which can be seen on Youtube he said "If you seize power from us, then we'll burn the whole country down. Burn it, burn everything, my brothers — Guarantee: Bangkok will turn into a sea of flames. Those of you who live in the country, it's OK if you cannot join us. If anything happens, just gather at your provincial or city halls. No need to wait for the order. Burn your city halls down to the ground."

Well said. That's one of the reasons why Jatuporn was in such a rush to push for elections, so he could hide behind his parliamentary immunity once again. That also was the reason why he lamented while in jail that he should be allowed to vote, that it was his right as a citizen (although 'normal' people serving terms in Thailand generally lose that right). Without the right to vote he could not have stood as an election candidate.

I am of the belief that these Udon convictions and the previous ones for arson will all be quashed under the 'amnesty'. The same amnesty that absolves Abhisit of his crimes and brings Thaksin home. Its just a show for the onlooking punters. Never believe what you see in Thailand, scratch the surface and see the muck underneath

They do not learn how to efficiently communicate by giving reasons and arguments. Thus, Thais generally don't take criticism well, as they tend to be shy about making comments, albeit constructively, because they did not want to offend their bosses or feared that their comments might easily be construed as a personal attack against others. This work culture does not support a spirit of teamwork or critical thinking.

I have been reading the Ministry of Educations literature with regards to the curriculum and the roles of teachers and students within setting and achieving those targets. When this gov. is still promoting Thai-ness (words use in the publication, not mine) how the hell do they hope to prosper. Along with nationalism and a large emphasis on religion too much time is wasted at school.

Thai-ness, to me, is part of the reason people dont question people that they perceive as of a higher social standing. Nobodys asking 'why' so dont expect an improvement anytime soon. Maybe a start to make wai-ing illegal apart from wai-ing certain groups -ie the monarchy, monks etc. The Wai is a class thing, the higher your social status is the higher up the wai will be. eg Wai friend on chest, big policeman wai about nose level. If I get to meet the president of USA I will shake his hand , come to think of it I shake the bin mans hand when I give him a tip at Christmas.

As long as the Red Shirts cannot accept a different opinion in their own villages, there will never be true democracy.

Indeed - I pity the poster that doesn't understand that *any* existing village declaring themselves 100% of *any* political leaning is a step back in a process towards democracy and respect for free speech.

So the 18 occasions of military rules and there is no guarantee it wont hit 19

Bravo! Richard in BKK. Excellent response to a typical uninformed, ego-centric poster. Your sarcasm in this sentence is perfect! "Clearly, you can not be an American and hold this view"

I am a retired Canadian living in BKK for the past 8 months and I am amused and dismayed daily by some of the self-righteous judgements and criticisms posted in this and other forums.

Thank you

Rojack - Happy in Bangkok

I believe people who write a post like this should be required to begin with, I am from *name of country* Clearly, you can not be an American and hold this view. In Hurricane Katrina 1,836 people died, and property losses exceeded $81 billion. Lets not even talk about the oil disaster in the Gulf. Perhaps the UK? OMG...where to begin?

The question is, "Who are you to judge?" By the way, Thailand began planning for this in the 1990's, developed some clever plans, implemented them...and frankly...they are working! Really, you have no idea what you are talking about. Instead of pointing the finger, why not instead "lift it" to help someone today?

The way Thailand has dealt with and dealing with this is a joke, No preparation, Politicians and beauarcrats who are not up to the their jobs, a country where image is everything, substance non exsistent

Welcome rojack, and good first post. Unfortunately, you are going to be more than just dismayed after reading the posts of the anti Govt posters here. As another poster mentioned, "the percentage of foaming-at-the-mouth Thaksin haters is far, far higher among TV members than it is amongst the Thai population." I actually suspect that this is not the case, but instead, these posters have nothing better to do with their time, being retired and bored out of their little minds, unable to properly integrate into the Thai society and thus spend the whole day digging up material to support their anti-Govt stance. A large proportion of TV members (myself included) could not be bothered to rise to the bait or to respond to their trolling posts.

Ver true bkkorupcountry. I wish I could believe it was only socially inept farangs posting anti gov rubbish but I suspect there maybe some well educated locals chipping in

I believe people who write a post like this should be required to begin with, I am from *name of country* Clearly, you can not be an American and hold this view. In Hurricane Katrina 1,836 people died, and property losses exceeded $81 billion. Lets not even talk about the oil disaster in the Gulf. Perhaps the UK? OMG...where to begin?

The question is, "Who are you to judge?" By the way, Thailand began planning for this in the 1990's, developed some clever plans, implemented them...and frankly...they are working! Really, you have no idea what you are talking about. Instead of pointing the finger, why not instead "lift it" to help someone today?

The way Thailand has dealt with and dealing with this is a joke, No preparation, Politicians and beauarcrats who are not up to the their jobs, a country where image is everything, substance non exsistent

Well said.

NO preparation? Not true. A joke? No, look at the hundreds of people going to flooded areas to help.

Although the authorities could have done more to prevent flooding, I am actually surprised they have been holding up this well. Keep in mind that 16 BILLION CBM of water is on the way South. The effort required to deal with that amount of water is a major challenge for any country.

I am from Norway, but have lived in Holland for most of my life. I have seen a little of what it takes to deal with massive amounts of water.

The critics here just hate the new government and undoubtedly feel that Thaksin is somehow ultimately responsible. It would not matter if Yingluck was able to walk across the troubled waters and make them evaporate, heal the lame and halt, and change water into wine, they would still complain that her brother told her to do that for some nefarious reason, and anyway Mark would have been able to do all that much earlier. For some unknown reason, the percentage of foaming-at-the-mouth Thaksin haters is far, far higher among TV members than it is amongst the Thai population. I suspect that where that horrific, evil monster Mr. T got off on the wrong foot with them is the early bar closings.

/ I Was not at all a fan of Thaksin while he was in power, but feel a certain amount of sympathy for him the more I learn about his enemies.

+1 it often seems like a scripted campaign to turn every thread, yes every thread, into a turkey shoot on Thaksin. Its as if somebody is funding the campaign of hatred. Most posters have seen thru this but I dont think the offenders have. Whatever anti Thaksin tripe is posted here what must be understood is that we cannot influence Thais as proved by the amount of times he keeps getting re-elected (regardless of convictions under a military, invisible hand controlled judiciary))

A few out of touch posters dont realise that the world and his dog want to be at Thaksins table, Every serious trading nation as sent somebody in unofficial or official capacity to meet the man yet many on here villify him, maybe its only a few posters with multiple id's, who knows.

How many elections has this man won maybe averaging 20,000,000 votes per time and yet people on here link Thaksin to red-to burning buildings-to corruption then the same people try to justify coups and the deaths of 90+ Thais. Well the guilty for the deaths have had a reprieve but only until the floods recede then you can bet when the truth is known we will still have the same people trying to twist it to Thaksin and defend the people who gave the orders. Makes for a fun day[/color]

What's interesting to me is, that so many people get up in arms, and rightfully so, about the LM laws and the lack of civilian oversight of the military. Invariably these are also Thaksin sympathizers. The irony is that the only party that pledged to reform these laws and policies was just voted out of office and the party they favor is pledging crackdowns on "abusers" of LM laws and of course is politicizing the military to an extent not seen in 20 years.

I think you will find that one of the very first things that the Abhisit government did was to substantially increase the maximum sentence for LM within months of taking office. Then we saw the sharp rise in using the law to attack political opponents as referred to in the original post. The LM and slander laws need at least reviewing to allow people to speak their minds, which can be done without offending the monarchy. I doubt if Thaksin will do a great deal especially with regard to slander laws, he will most probably need them to keep people quiet.

"We haven't had a referee over the last 5 or 6 years...".

Wrong Mr. Surakiart, the referee was there all the time, it's called the law, but you (yes you) and many others had no respect for the law and now we have the mess.

You say 'secret talks'. Again, totally wrong and totally inappropiate. You. Mr Surakiart, have strong Thais to thaksin, thaksin now claims he's the champion of democracy, eaual justice and no double standrads, and his red gangs claim to be his disciples.

Let's have a quick analysis of this:

- Thaksin and his his red shirt gangs, are demanding that they want quality democracy. That means freedom of speech, the right to involvement of all citizens in discussion, and total transparency. Secret talks is just the opposite.

- Thaksin and his red shirt gangs are demanding equal justice. But again and again they ask for special treatment outside of equal justice for all Thais.

- Thaksin had said many times "I have done nothing wrong", He knows this is totally untrue and is blatant lies. Hardly a bastion of truth and morals.

Mr. Surakiart, your approach is totally inappropriate and in fact smacks of elitism which thaksin claims he is fighting.

Get back to strict observance of the law, be a champion of upholding the law Mr Surakiart, then you might have a valid platform.

Demonising Mr Thaksin again. I am sure you are aware that 20,000,000 should be included in the red gangs and many of them will be professional people form the big cities. Nice to see a statement that puts the two major players in Thailands conflict in the same sentence. On the one hand Prem who has been putting his invisible hand into the army the judiciary and the Democrat party for as long as any can remember. General Prem is without doubt the conductor of the orchestra and requests can be made ( eg.. 2005 "hey Prem get the troops out that Thakky chappy is way to popular and is a serious threat to our continuing control). On the other hand the new boy on the block who fancys running the game himself. Its going to get messy

So this is part of the reconciliation process, of course the present Govt won't criticise it. It's turning into a banana republic run by monkeys.

name and shame before reconcilliation

So much hatred for the redshirts and the way thai's are trying to live thier lives in thier country. What have the thais done to you people personally to breed such hatred? If you have such destest and hatred of the country and the people why are you here?

agenda, script and mostly fear

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. These peoples feet have many holes in them. Intelligence dictates that after one shot it hurts and you quit shooting (learn) and don't do it again. I just wonder when the next shot will come.

soon, no doubt

People who have posted derogatory images/cartoons of Thai public figures have had them removed. Why is this still on here. Ask Yoon to get one of his staff to remove it

Seems like they are trying to justify an imminent curtail of free speech. Claim that criticism of the government is the first step of a conspiracy to overthrow the government (through undemocratic means we presume), therefore extreme measures are needed to counteract this extreme threat.

It also plays well to keep their base fired up, a simple "Coup of the Month" scare cry may have been blunted by its continuous use during the past two or three years, they need something new, more sexy to keep the people on edge.

The anti PT media, does that include TV Read the full story here good reading

Why blaming the kids ?

A few weeks ago I posted about a Thai right wing group that called itself "SS" in obvious reference to the infamous nazi organisation. I asked posters that have in the past made clear their support for affiliated organisations to state their position regarding this "SS" group, I never got any answer.

Don't blame the kids or the Thais. It's our primary duty for us European to keep the memory alive so history won't repeat itself. If we chose to remain silent, we have only ourselves to blame.

The Nation

Published on August 10, 2011

In a sign of increasing online witch-hunting against its political opponents, ASTV-Manager daily newspaper, the mouthpiece of the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), on Monday produced the picture and name of the latest man charged under lese majeste laws.

The newspaper quoted an ultra-royalist social-sanction group (known as the SS) as declaring victoriously: "Another one is down."

The same SS posted much information about the man, a new graduate from Kasetsart University, on its website. The name, photo and details are there to assist, or even encourage, ultra-royalists to send threatening e-mail or make hate phone calls to the man and his family.

http://www.nationmul...y-30162390.html

Still on education but not this story. Saw on the 'morning focus' tv that an arrest warrant had been put out for a thai teacher for coercing sex from underage students for educational favours. Worst of it being he gave them a serious sexually transmitted disease. if you add the excessive violent caning from last week (79 stokes of the cane on

some young students 4rse) there seems little to redeem this out of control system. Last week saw some young thai teacher caned a group of kids,,,, for not wearing the correct uniform for that day, and 3 of the group were girls. They seriously need outside help to correct this shambles called education

The shortlist, which contains the personal recommendations of Deputy Prime Minister and Interior Minister Yongyuth Wichaidit, has been submitted to the fugitive prime minister, who is now based in Hong Kong, the source said.

Surely is it not about time that this current administration was dissolved as it is clearly being dominated by a renegade fugitive from justice who has his own agenda of absolute power at any cost.

Kim -Jong- il move over Thaksin is coming to a place near you soon!!!

No one in particular but the anti Thaksin brigade make me wet patch my pants. If a fugitive convicted criminal can do so much what will happen when he becomes a pardoned ex pm. You boys will be needing new keyboards to cope with the anti Thaksin script you have to type everyday

This guy was an incompetent finance minister under the 2006 coup-appointed government. Why on earth is he offering macro-financial advice to the current government?

Because , this time the man is right on the button with his forecast... The Big guys behind this scheme will make millions and millions, the ordinary farmers will make nothing. it has been tried before with huge corruption involved, but huge payouts to the mill owners. These Big guys care nothing for Thailand or the Thai peoples.. All they care about is to line their own pockets till bursting... But they and associates, backed many of these PTP MPs and now want their payback.. In Vietnam right now , hundreds and hundreds of tons of cheap rice is waiting to be brought into Thailand , you cannot DNA rice, this will all be claimed as Thai rice and the guaranteed moneys paid to those crooks and cheats.. This plan has been in the pipeline for a long time now... It involves huge amounts of taxpayers hard earned moneys going to these cheats and crooks... I was recently in Da Nang and visited 4 huge storage units full to the roof with cheap rice, we were trying to buy this rice for aid in Pakistan, the owners told me it was already sold to Thai mill owners, why would Thailand be importing rice..? They will triple their moneys on this deal... Thank you Yinluck... so much for a stand against corruption.. and the band played on...!!! Amazing Thailand.

i think you will find that the millowners/exporters of rice are one of the power bases of the old feudal system that keep the poor poor and as such PT is trying to destroy this network not profit from it. if you want to write something correct, find out the owners of the two companies who between them account for 60% of Thailands rice exports. It is likely these people are being targeted by the PT.

. All this just stinks to high heaven.

Why??

Not seeking to argue -- nor even necessarily disagree -- I am interested to learn why you oppose this move so strongly??

Because Thaksin was found guilty of breaking 1997 constitution laws. Just because the investigation was initiated by the coup government doesn't make him any less guilty.

Hi whybother

That is precisely I am at a loss to understand why his name is even mentioned in this matter ---- which is aimed at "expunging of decrees and judicial decisions that flowed from the 2006 coup".

What has this got to do with Thaksins potential return??

Are you suggesting that expunging these matters would in some way serve to advantage Thaksins legal position??

As you point out -- he was convicted under preexisting laws.

Maybe Thaksins name is mentioned in everypost bcos its in the script for that day

This government has got 'debt crisis' written all over it.

This government is already in the process of securing the next election. Pay hikes for people who traditionally believe they have to vote Dem is one hell of a vote winner. Dont you think so?

During an election a party makes a bunch of promises. If elected, during the tenure of the government enough of these promises must be carried through to keep the electorate onside at the next election. If PTP deliver 300 baht per day during their tenure I doubt many will complain. If they achieve it by the end of 2012, that will be pretty good going.

In reality delivering 300 baht a day is almost a guarantee of victory in the next election, which is why their opponents want to either see it not happen or muddy things into well it didnt happen on the day Yingluck took office. The problem with that approach is that you keep looking like you are the ones stopping the government. All it needs now is a PTP enemy to try and embroil any of these populist policies in court cases or bureaucratic delays and PTPs popularity will soar.

It's difficult to get a party to uphold a promise when it is non-specific and general, like "we will raise the quality of life for the poorer classes", so i reluctantly accept these type of promises being made and broken during election campaigns. But when a party states something very specific, as PTP did, i believe there must be a mechanism in place to make them deliver or otherwise face some sort of legal consequence for all the votes they won under false pretences. It's not enough to simply say, well if they don't deliver they can be voted out in four years. Four years is a very long time and what they can do in that time in the way on entrenching their position of power, makes taking the risk of telling blatant lies a risk worth taking. This is wrong. This is not democracy.

Be voted out in 4 years. Have you seen the opposition, they are still stuck in their old ways. To put it mildly the opposition at this point is totally unelectable but then again they have not been electable for over 20 years and it maybe another 20 years before they get a whiff of power again. Now that is a dose of reality that they will have to come to terms with