wigantojapan

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/278206-leeds-east-labour-mp-george-mudie-gives-backing-to-yes-campaign/

Another common thread and up to date...Debate what debate,,Question what question..public meeting,,silence of the lambs...https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=474124906066523&set=a.178361088976241.61531.174987595980257&type=1

better together

Give us your money and we will give you the food banks...better together

give us your money and we will give you the bedroom tax better together

give us your money and the undemocratic House of lords can veto any bill they like better together

give us your money and we will trash you at all times unless its referendum posturing better together

give us your money and we will keep on perpetrating the myth that The Uk subsidizes Scotland better together

if no agreement we can always walk away...i am sure they will come cap in hand and ask for a loan

remind us again recycle news if you like,,why the Uk would be better if Scotland remained...You can follow that on by informing us why The Uk would be better if Scotland did not remain

Think you might hedge that question...please do inform

<snip>

Every Scottish resident that has paid into the UK NIC system is entitled to the benefits accrued. That includes the no voters. That includes the English born residents. Even those from Sussex.

At the moment; yes.

While Scotland remains in the UK; yes.

But if Scotland leaves the UK; no.

You want it all; independence from the UK but retain the benefits of being part of the UK!

Well we dont want trident are you going to move it in 2016....no so who wants all the benefits...How much tripe can one read in the English newspapers...try to at least be a bit original

<snip>

What is certain is that Scotland and Salmond in particular will not let Westminister dictate as they have often done and continue to do so to this day.

Equally certain is that the UK government will not let Salmond, or his successors, dictate to them.

Though he and you obviously believe that they will.

BTW, the UK is a democracy, not a dictatorship; otherwise you would not be having this referendum.

Ask nontebury he feels that salmond has dictated the whole thing

no one on the yes side has that feeling we are much more humble,,something you havent learned from being around Buddhist

7x7 - There is no mechanism in place to deny Scottish residents that have paid into the NHS access to the NHS.

Your line about general taxation is a red herring - you know what the contract and obligation of NIC is. I believe at this moment in time you are kicking yourself in the realization that I'm right. It would be better that you admitted that the UK government will either have to honour the current agreement - or provide a lump sum to fund their obligation. There is no chance whatsoever of the UK government providing a lump sum, so they will have to grant access to the NHS for Scottish resident NI contributants.

Sometimes in life you have to put your hand up and admit that what you think should happen, and what will happen, are two totally different things.

hell will freeze over quicker rather than the sussex man hold his hand up to any lack of understanding in anything

What is certain is that Scotland and Salmond in particular will not let Westminister dictate as they have often done and continue to do so to this day.

Like you said negotiations will be thrashed out and expect dirty underhand tricks as hinted by the House of Lords

One wouldn't expect less by the Westminster mob after all centuries of habit can just not be eroded over night.

yes better together if you prop up out economy

if not you can all die in the streets

welcome to the world of the sussex man

Here you go Again for all you googlers.............

It is obvious from the vast amount of links you post that the person who spends most time Googling here is you!

Wrong again you are on a roll...I actually have lived in Scotland a lot longer may i suggest than you have lived in The UK...So i have a much deeper intimate knowledge and understanding of what both Scottish yes and no voters want..

you can only ever have 2nd ,3rd 4th hand knowledge and uncertain knowledge heavily slanted at best

Again you (7by7) have only looked up a google link (about NHS entitlement for non UK residents)and have no intimate knowledge of the subject matter

You have probably not noticed my many posts in the Visas forum about all aspects of UK immigration matters; including the entitlement or otherwise of NHS care for non UK residents.

I mention this to show you that I do have knowledge in this area. I did not need to Google to find out this information; I knew it already.

You claim to have worked for the NHS. Whether that was as a cleaner, a neurosurgeon or in any other capacity, what is obvious is that you do not know, or are deliberately ignoring, the regulations concerning NHS care for non UK residents.

Which is why I provided a link to an independent, authoritative source for you to learn from.

Or do you consider the CAB to be biased know nothings?

Where exactly is your knowledge from?Are you an immigration officer.?Then you have a minimal understanding of immigration and none about NHS SCOTLAND

I very clearly remember you stating when i first said that there is NO UK NHS that your reply was ,well that MAY BE......so you didnt sound sure then and you sure dont sound sure now.

There is no UK NHS FACT.....Scottish patients treated outside of Scotland or even outside their postcode are treated as foreigners FACT.

ALL Scottish treatments in NHS ENGLAND paid by NHS SCOTLAND FACT

So were is your intimate knowledge gleamed from if not google?,

you clearly do not know and you can continue to draw a wedge in the origin of the topic which was confirmed by workers in the Great Ormond Hospital itself.

you are clearly just trying to convince yourself..The fact that you keep on going back to it shows your desperation.

You are happy for the parents of children to have been lied to

You are happy for people with cancer and their families to be lied to.

You then divert away from the initial post by giving a xenophobic account of non foreigners entitlement to a UKHNS system that does not EXIST

What is clear is you are happy for the most desperate of people the sick to show in their time of need if they have the capacity to do so ,,where they come from,,,,sounds xenophobic to me and if they have funds...

Scotland is open to all Even arrogant sussex people if they are in need they will get treated ,,,Better together better dead than help together you mean

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Pl1IalnNI#t=201....Paul Flynn, Labour MP for Newport West, talks to going Underground host Afshin Rattansi about bias in the Scottish independence referendum.

He walked out of a Public Administration Select Committee on the subject after being told to be silent. He feels that a civil service leak stating that a currency union between Scotland and England would not work was a targeted attempt to influence Scotland to stay in the UK. He warns that Westminster could well be biased towards the Be

what prosperous areas of Scotland are you talking about ?

unless England votes on independence they will not get independence,,on the other hand Scotland who is voting on independence will if the vote is yes gain independence from the Uk.

good to see that you are happy to receive Scottish taxes to keep the UK economy afloat ,where is certainly would have collapsed .

you will find that the majority of the people making the decisions were English, % wise or otherwise...so good to see that you are so happy to support the policies of the Westminster parties, that again is bringing the country to its knees ,,no matter how much spin Osbourne gives about Britain is booming again.

you might be happy because of your obvious dislike for Scottish politicians

,,it may surprise you that us Scots have a similar distaste for them,,,but remember one thing why the Uk is so determined to hold onto Scotland is not about stronger together,,is not about security,,is not about our place on the G8 but is all about the Uk economy collapsing without the Scottish money and all the jobs and risk that will bring to the hard working poorer parts of England

so yes celebrate your distorted views that England will be better without, at the expense of your fellow Englishman

What is blatantly clear is why the English are not revolting with the policies and have now embraced UKIP as well

A point of order :

The people making the decisions were in spirit neither English nor Scottish. They were and are acting in the interests of the political construct commonly known as Great Britain.

It should be readily apparent to any student of British history that the apex of power has merely seen a parade of characters jockeying for control over the isles and beyond with scant regard for any of the population, Celtic or Anglo-Saxon.

England has arguably lacked representation since 1066.

I am not eligible to vote in September, but I fully understand and support my Scottish fellow islanders in their bid to make a break. Little by little, inches become miles.

yes we all fxxxing know its a charade and the people inside the machine are only a pawn in the game,,well there is people outside the machine,,living surviving contributing nothing to the profits of the machine and getting nothing from the machine either....part of the fringe of the underclass ,,yes you can be a survivalist even within the encroachment of modern society ,Scotland is a huge country,i personally know of people living in the wilds on lands owned by the vacant landlords,,,,who actually get subsidized of the tax payers for being a vacant landlord,,,who are living in the wilderness,,living healthy contented lives,,free from the bondage of the machine,,so can be done...All the Scots are voting for is the right to hang the puppets of the unseen forces out to dry quicker than under the puppets of the west minister banner,,nothing ore nothing less

what prosperous areas of Scotland are you talking about ?

unless England votes on independence they will not get independence,,on the other hand Scotland who is voting on independence will if the vote is yes gain independence from the Uk.

good to see that you are happy to receive Scottish taxes to keep the UK economy afloat ,where is certainly would have collapsed .

you will find that the majority of the people making the decisions were English, % wise or otherwise...so good to see that you are so happy to support the policies of the Westminster parties, that again is bringing the country to its knees ,,no matter how much spin Osbourne gives about Britain is booming again.

you might be happy because of your obvious dislike for Scottish politicians

,,it may surprise you that us Scots have a similar distaste for them,,,but remember one thing why the Uk is so determined to hold onto Scotland is not about stronger together,,is not about security,,is not about our place on the G8 but is all about the Uk economy collapsing without the Scottish money and all the jobs and risk that will bring to the hard working poorer parts of England

so yes celebrate your distorted views that England will be better without, at the expense of your fellow Englishman

What is blatantly clear is why the English are not revolting with the policies and have now embraced UKIP as well

http://www.arcofprosperity.org/darling-i-am-not-an-ethnic-nationalist/"

Alistair Darling should feel ashamed of himself. There are plenty of neo-fascist movements appearing all over Europe at moment that he could spend his time fighting. Ethnic nationalism is a horrible ideology, and applying that term to an anti-xenophobic party that welcomes foreigners like me with open arms is insulting, demeaning, harmful and evil. We are not amused."

You're making me very confused, Lancashire Lad, at one time you lead us to believe that you where English, then you categorically stated you were born and bred in Scotland. Now you are saying you are a foreigner in Scotland. What is it about you, the same as when at one time you were just outside Edinburgh and then impossible, a few hours later on the Thai/Burma boarder.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

you are making yourself confused by your constant referral to Lancashire lad..This you picked up from 7 by 7.I never ever said that i was English..,so if anyone led you to believe i was English it was the man from sussex.

.Where have i said i am a foreigner in Scotland,,so yes you are confused..

.Craiglockhart is NOT OUTSIDE Edinburgh so again you are confused on that point and i was not on the Thai Border 2 days after not a few hours so again you are confused on that also..though as you know you can easily travel from Uk to Thailand in 16 hours

The above link was from a foreigner who has been welcomed and made his life in Scotland,,something that is in short supply further South of Hadrian wall.

i take it then you support the comment by Darling

http://www.arcofprosperity.org/darling-i-am-not-an-ethnic-nationalist/"

Alistair Darling should feel ashamed of himself. There are plenty of neo-fascist movements appearing all over Europe at moment that he could spend his time fighting. Ethnic nationalism is a horrible ideology, and applying that term to an anti-xenophobic party that welcomes foreigners like me with open arms is insulting, demeaning, harmful and evil. We are not amused."

http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8428-fury-after-unelected-peers-strip-power-from-scotland.

Fury after unelected peers strip power from Scotland...Go on Unionists please tell us,,inform us even ,where the untruths are in this article

All the talk about health care is another red-herring. It is totally obvious that if Scotland goes independent then a Scot will have to pay for their health-care if they travel to England in the same way as a person from France or RoI. Travel insurance will usually suffice in the same way as it does now.

I can imagine an open border existing - in the same way as it does between UK and RoI. The only consideration there is if Scotland joins the Schengen group and England does not, but that's some time away -- there'll be a new set of politicians and a new EU boss by then

I believe you are correct, now can you please explain these facts to the Lancashire laddie, he seems to be having a problem grasping these points.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

They already do pay.See the wee slip you get when you go for any form of service,,that wee slip goes back for NHS Scotland to pay.You seem to be having major problems grasping where i am from even though i have gave clear indications....A previous video will give you a clue ..aye the half way hoose for people in the know laddie...See if your going to be anti anything,,know your enemy and the environment they work live and play in,,,

Here you go Again for all you googlers you will tell us that Leith and Auld Rekkie are the same..Cannae even get the basics aboot a part o Scotland and its pychie

All the talk about health care is another red-herring. It is totally obvious that if Scotland goes independent then a Scot will have to pay for their health-care if they travel to England in the same way as a person from France or RoI. Travel insurance will usually suffice in the same way as it does now.

They already do pay.See the wee slip you get when you go for any form pf service,,that wee slip goes back for NHS Scotland to pay

RuamRudy,

The history of the NHS is, indeed, complicated and there are good demographic reasons for major specialist hospitals being located where they are.

But you seem to be saying that there are no such anywhere in Scotland!

This is just one area which voters have to consider; leave the UK and you leave the UK NHS.

Not a lie; a real probability unless the government of an independent Scotland can persuade the UK government to make Scottish residents exempt from the regulations which govern all other non UK residents; including non resident British citizens.

In other words, another area where the Yes campaign want to be independent yet retain all the rights and benefits of being part of the UK.

Scottish voters need to know the downside of leaving the UK as well as the benefits.

That you, wigantojapan and others don't want the voters to know this downside and so label all mention of it as 'Project Fear, scaremongering and bullying' only shows how worried you are that the Scottish people as a whole know their future is better within the UK and will vote accordingly.

Wigantojapan; Scottish residents do not have the same status as non UK residents, i.e. limited access to NHS care in the rest of the UK; they have the same rights as all other UK residents do in all parts of the UK.

You really should read that CAB link.

Then, once you know the actual rules, maybe, instead of yet again resorting to pathetic insults, you can answer the question.

There are agreements in place at this moment regarding the different independent NHS services

Again there is no UK NHS no matter if all UK citizens have access to them

Scottish residents ONLY have access to non Scottish NHS services through a pre negotiated between the health bodies

in this way it is the same as being a non Uk resident...The Scot is paid for by the NHS SCOTLAND,,,...You want to beat on that non factual attack on the weak.

the great ormond spokesperson as earlier stated also confirmed what i have said,,so you might read some rule but you certainly do not understand it

Now possibly with the way the NHS ENGLAND is going negotiations could take place in a new independent Scotland..if England wants to screw more money out of Scotland in the name of fairness ,,that will get negotiated if need be,,but in no way is it like you keep on beating on about Scotland wanting to take something that doesn't belong .or they are entitled to do so..Again you have only looked up a google link and have no intimate knowledge of the subject matter

No; because it does not answer the basic question.

Non UK residents have very limited access to NHS care in the UK.

Residents of an independent Scotland will not be UK residents.

You really do want independence in areas that suit you, but still retain all the rights and benefits of being part of the UK as well!

Scottish residents have limited access to NHS ENGLAND NOW

That will not change after a yes or no vote.

A Scottish resident NOW pays for his/her treatment in NHS England or even as i said before within different Health Boards with in Scotland

Scotland NHS is treated as a NON NHS ENGLAND status and has that same status as a non UK resident regarding health care

Try taking off your xenophobic mask .

The rights and benefits you go on about are simply a financial agreement,,nothing to do with health and taking care of the patient,,but first and foremost, get as much money as you can from the people who most need the help of society the sick

Thats what you are happy with.

Scotland as a whole are not

jpinx,

The RoI did indeed tie the Punt to Sterling for many years; until they joined the ERM and the UK didn't.

But that is not the same as a formal currency union; even though both currencies were accepted, unofficially, by most shops either side of the border.

I am aware that the SNP is not the whole of the Yes campaign. But they are the major player.

It was they who produced the 'manifesto' for the Yes campaign.

It was they who produced the estimates of the cost of independence; both sets, the one they published and the one they tried to keep secret.

If Scotland does become independent then it will, of course, be up to the Scottish voters, when the SNP call an election, to decide who will form their next government; I have never denied that.

On the subjects of the SNP and a currency union:

‘UK should not vote on currency union’ - Salmond

IN the event of Scottish independence, people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland should not be given a formal say on whether Scotland enters a currency union with them, according to First Minister Alex Salmond.

Seems that Salmond's belief in the right of the people to decide only applies to Scottish people; not the rest of us!

The major player of the yes campaign are the people who can vote ,,You keep on wanting to draw attention to Salmond who as a politician could wipe the floor with anyone,,but like everyone on the yes side knows it is not about salmond intelligent debate is that your marker?

No, the major players, in fact only players, in the actual decision are the people who can vote.

Salmond and the SNP are the major players in the campaign attempting to persuade those people to vote Yes.

As for Salmond's ability to wipe the floor; give him a bucket and a mop and after a bit of practice he could probably do ok.

hers is a good one hour for you while salmond cleans the floor..Im sure he is humble enough to do thathttp://youtu.be/Kiatf_Nt3nI

Wigantojapan.

All you points about Scottish residents' access to NHS services in the rest of the UK are perfectly valid; while Scotland remains part of the UK.

If Scotland leaves the UK then there is no reason why Scottish residents should be treated in the UK any differently to all other non UK residents.

Not just when it comes to NHS treatment, but in everything else as well.

If you want independence; have it.

But it should be full independence, without retaining the benefits of being part of the UK in areas which suit you.

Nothing to do with Scotland being a part of UK now.

They are independent NHS how will that change either way it wont.

no Uk taxes NOW pay for Scottish patients healthcare in England

NONE not 1 penny

Scotland NHS pays,, NOT UK taxes......

What will happen in the event of a NO VOTE is that Westminister will give 4 billion austerity pounds to Scotland as a thank you for being better together,,,That could impact on NHS Scotland.

NHS England could also offer 100% free care in England to English residents,,it chooses not to.

clear enough