xthAi76s

... screwed up the quotes ...

Read this:

decided that winning is not only about tangible things (like material wealth) but it can also be something like a lack of fear of failure and an understanding that the ride is just as important as the destination.

Achievers know what they've achieved. Coming to terms with a fear of failure is not an achievement.

OK, I wil try to address your point, and I hope that you will answer my question to you in my original post. -- When I checked your page recently, I notice that in the last few topics, you've started them but I didn't note many cases of you opening up and providing insight to your own questions. I hope this will not be the case here.

I do not agree with your suppositions that

Achievers know what they've achieved.

and that

Coming to terms with a fear of failure is not an achievement.

. Technically, so long as I had anything I listed as a goal, then, having satisfied the goal, it has thusly been achieved. Can you argue with this?

I think you mean to ask a different question which may require more effort to properly articulate. Is your question really about achievement or would you like to elaborate on your original question? I don't want play with words, but I would like to answer your question accurately.

Thanks,

But, yes, I do believe I am rather attractive, and many others agree as well. And, for my position in life, I am indeed pretty young. Nothing wrong with that, right?

You very hansum man, of that we can all agree.

+1,

But l worry about the hours he spends in front of the mirror with his friends.

Thanks, guys, for your positive contributions to this positive thread. In fact, while I have some friends, I do not think I have many friends.

Have a nice evening.

Young, well-educated, wife and I walked away from more money than most people ever get to make, have a beautiful, young, educated, kind wife, good looking and physically healthy, dropped my concern for material wealth (as evidenced by walking away from a lot of money), do not care for the many distractions that many fall for, learned to not take things personally most of the time, acclimatized, started building relationships with other educated foreigners and Thais here from various places (like school and such), learned to not care much about roaches crawling on my food, learned to be a bit more humble, decided against having any children (huge win, imo), decided that winning is not only about tangible things (like material wealth) but it can also be something like a lack of fear of failure and an understanding that the ride is just as important as the destination.

How about you, OP? Anything inspiring?

So, you are young and well educated.

Your wife is also young. She is beautiful, well-educated, kind, good looking and physically healthy.

Great. Really great.

But what have you actually achieved?

Not sure what you mean as you are calling attention to only a very small portion of my post. Can you clarify?

Young, well-educated, wife and I walked away from more money than most people ever get to make, have a beautiful, young, educated, kind wife, good looking and physically healthy, dropped my concern for material wealth (as evidenced by walking away from a lot of money), do not care for the many distractions that many fall for, learned to not take things personally most of the time, acclimatized, started building relationships with other educated foreigners and Thais here from various places (like school and such), learned to not care much about roaches crawling on my food, learned to be a bit more humble, decided against having any children (huge win, imo), decided that winning is not only about tangible things (like material wealth) but it can also be something like a lack of fear of failure and an understanding that the ride is just as important as the destination.

How about you, OP? Anything inspiring?

You might want to try harder with the HUMBLE bit, as the rest of the post seems to indicate you are a bit of a snob.

Not sure how anything I said should be regarded as snobbish. I'm guessing you underlined the parts that you feel are not humble?

I think you are reading the wrong tone into my post. I am not being a snob. These are simply the truths as I see them. It's confidence (which I have not always had, btw). I had to struggle to earn my confidence, and I have no issue telling someone how I feel about myself -- esp when asked. You might find I'm one the most humble people you've ever met ... But, yes, I do believe I am rather attractive, and many others agree as well. And, for my position in life, I am indeed pretty young. Nothing wrong with that, right?

Not a falang but got here at age 21 with virtually zero assets (not counting family assets) and only several US$ hundred (at most a thousand maybe) in cash.

IMO now a relative financial success (again still not counting family assets, just what I've added to the pile). 15 years later: not a satang in debt neither personally or business wise (all ventures operating on their own cash flow) and the children and future grandchildren have their homes, rent property, and education(s), etc., paid for. Spend most of our time planning and grooming the next generation to not flush it all down the toilet. I probably haven't developed much as a person though other than becoming more laid back / less hot tempered. Maybe a little less condescending now that I have a better view of it all as well.

Still can barely read or write Thai so basically I found a way to become one of those illiterate Chinese bosses (albeit from the US instead of China) that are all now mostly 80-90+ years old.

edit: that said, I did expect to do much more when I first got here. I visualized owning chains and chains of businesses that at that time were unheard of here and expected to be a household name. Not even close, nothing ever took off on that scale. The drive to do anything like that has long since been replaced with a conservative 'maintain what you've accomplished stop loss, this is more than most can ever dream of' type way of thinking. Oh well... it's all relative.

Congrats; winner indeed.

IMO, winner prior to hitting Thailand but actively working on winning here. Not exactly easy, of course.

1. what -- if anything -- have you achieved?

Came over, working on business interest.

2. what new skills -- if any -- have you learned, developed, honed, and used to your advantage?

The understanding that although I absolutely disagree with many things about Thailand (I do love many things as well), I can generally use the problems to my advantage.

3. what -- if anything -- have you accomplished? What makes you stand out from the crowd?

Young, well-educated, wife and I walked away from more money than most people ever get to make, have a beautiful, young, educated, kind wife, good looking and physically healthy, dropped my concern for material wealth (as evidenced by walking away from a lot of money), do not care for the many distractions that many fall for, learned to not take things personally most of the time, acclimatized, started building relationships with other educated foreigners and Thais here from various places (like school and such), learned to not care much about roaches crawling on my food, learned to be a bit more humble, decided against having any children (huge win, imo), decided that winning is not only about tangible things (like material wealth) but it can also be something like a lack of fear of failure and an understanding that the ride is just as important as the destination.

How about you, OP? Anything inspiring?

They go home and their friends say: "Ok, let me get this straight. FIRST you pick up two men you thought were women. THEN, when you find out the truth, these two "woman" kicked your asses?"

+1 esp funny considering Russkie's importance on masculinity and toughness.

I'm reading a book: Working with the Thais -- A Guide to Managing in Thailand.

The book talks much about culture and the differences that makes the Thais -- Thai.

<snip>

And in fact "corruption is bad" "a level playing field for business is good" "the government job is to look after the common people" are all cultural-specific moral values.

All the banging heads against walls going on here at TV comes from members thinking that everyone should think the same way.

Well they don't.

Corruption will only end here when someone with Gandhi's level of morality holds nearly absolute power, even more than Thaksin had before the coup. Of course then he sure wouldn't put in a system looking like Europe or the US, which are just as fundamentally corrupt, but only at a higher level, not so much on the ground in every day life.

In other words, it won't happen.

If members here are actually sincere about improving Thailand for the sake of its own people, get out and contribute to or work for private-sector charities, or do what you can with those you know.

If you're looking to improve Thailand for your own benefit, I have no idea of an effective way to try to do that other than the above.

If you're seeking happiness, see the serenity prayer, and work on improving what's wrong between your own ears rather than in the outside world.

If you just enjoy wasting time arguing, well then by all means keep doing that. . .

Thanks for the reply, but I don't get into moral relativism. If you go by the highest power in this Kingdom, very respectfully, you will no doubt find that corruption is seen as a negative characteristic of the country. On the face of it all, there are drives to end it, so, there too, with the leaders of industry and ministers of government at all levels, at least publicly, corruption is seen as a negative characteristic which must be ended to improve the lives of those here.

I try my best not to compare cultures on the goodness of their characteristics -- I am not always successful in this regard -- but I am interested (as a necessity for conducting business here, and for the sake of knowledge) to understand how cultural traits might affect a people's ability to function in the world they live in and with the goals they have.

I'm reading a book: Working with the Thais -- A Guide to Managing in Thailand.

The book talks much about culture and the differences that makes the Thais -- Thai.

There would seem many cultural challenges within Thailand that create a perfect environment for this kind of corruption.

1st up: Power Distance Index

Thais rank rather highly in this index which is a measure of the extent to which Thais accept that power is distributed unequally and that they expect and prefer greater hierarchical gaps among members of society.

2nd up: Collectivism and a focus on Relationship Building

Thais rank near the top in this aspect. Their life focus tends to be on relationship building within the various communities or circles to which they belong.

3rd up: Conflict Avoidance

Thais rank very high in this category as well.

4th up: Know Your Place And Like IT which is tied into the Mai Bpen Rai attitude

The Thai expression 'Boon Tham Kam Taeng' means your current status is due to your karma. In other words, you really cannot do much to control your place in society and on the planet as where you are currently is due to past lives you've lived.

When you add all these things up, it's really a perfect storm for ineptitude and corruption. Once the authoritarian head of any section of society falls for darker elements of human greed, indeed the whole of society (more-or-less) goes with him. When learning about Thai culture, I'm almost tempted to think that much of these cultural rules evolved to protect the rich and powerful from the vast poor peasantry. You know, things like "you should accept your lot in life" because "it's not really changeable much" ... "because of who you are/were in past lives and who your family were in past lives". Something of a Caste system indeed. Most all civilizations had similar systems at some point, but most of us seemed to have snapped out of it with the Europeans leading the way. I would imagine that the civilizations of very old in Europe and even other now modern older countries had similar problems of corruption, ineptitude and greed.

It's gonna take education and a belief that you can move your lot in life to help change these things. But, as of now, the system of culture here has a perfect stranglehold on Thais inability to change things. Why would you change something that is perfect for reasons you can't understand because they are totally out of your control? What a dilemma.

I hope they haven't left a polluted mess. Semiconductor production may have very toxic hazardous waste that might be cheaper for them to abandon but Thai government should require cleanup.

They are Japanese. Of course the company will take care of this kind of matter. The Thai government wouldn't probably care one way or another, though. It seems you have your understanding reversed.

My city's number one! Woohoo!!!

You are blessed to be in such a beautiful city/country and amongst such wonderful and interesting people.

In a country of `65,000,000 of course there will be some good deeds.

I went to a dermatologist in that CRC tower building over there near the All Seasons on Wireless Rd. He took me in for a consult the first time and had me pay nothing. There was a promotion in this regard anyway. However, during my second, follow up visit (which was lengthier), he also refused my attempt to pay him. His advice has been the first to actually solve my problem. I had been going to rather expensive, high end derms in NY for some time which helped but didn't ever actually solve my problem.

Anyway, was this just a kind act by the doctor for refusing the 2nd consult fee or was it good business? I don't know, but either way, I received it as a good thing.

As for the cynicism, yeah, I agree that there are all kinds of foreigners here in Thailand. Some are decent, and others probably not so much. However, as a guy who has it together and who tries to see the good in people/life, Thailand does often leave a rather unpleasant taste in my mouth. Rather, the areas I visit and people I often interact with often leave an unpleasant taste in my mouth. (hey, no jokes about that, please ) It's a rugged place and most people (despite their ever smiling faces) have it pretty rough, so they are trying to survive. Since I've been here, I've learned to stop taking the negative things that I encounter personally (as I chalk it up to survival), but it doesn't make me notice them any less. You can't deny that 'mai bpen rai' cultural attitude makes for many issues challenging to us non-Thais. It's essentially a free-for-all ... The only rule is that there often are no real rules so long as nobody protests. I'm reading a book on this now.

About 20 years ago I had to exchange some currency at the currency exchange that used to be in front of Nana plaza. It was early morning about 8 or 9 if I remember right. After doing the exchange, I was walking down the Sukhumvit and the cashier from the exhange came running up behind me to tell me she had given me the incorrect exchange she had given me Australian exchange rate instead of Canadian and at that time Canada was higher. I went back to the exchange place and she redid the figures and gave me the extra money I had coming. I donot think you would see that to often anywhere.

I think that you are likely to see something like this most anywhere you go. Esp because there's no incentive for the cashier to cheat you. Essentially, all those transactions are recorded as it's a bank of sorts. She cannot cheat you to benefit herself.

I really don't get it. Some of you guys REALLY prefer "discipline" over an education that qualifies you for a life as a human being? With the ability to make decissions, find problem solutions and not just say "yes sir" in a submissive tone!

Brave new world!

Agree 100%

+1

Why does it have to be "either/Or"? I am paying for my son to have a good education but I expect that to be combined with dicipline in the school environment.

I don't think we're saying either/or, although I'll defer. I think we are simply making a statement of preference of focus. Of course having both is good, but certainly school is the place where overwhelmingly students should be learning things they cannot learn at home, and, as someone above put it, manners should be taught at home, anyway. The problem is that there is too much focus on the wrong stuff. The mixture percentages are incorrect.

I really don't get it. Some of you guys REALLY prefer "discipline" over an education that qualifies you for a life as a human being? With the ability to make decissions, find problem solutions and not just say "yes sir" in a submissive tone!

Brave new world!

Agree 100%

+1

All this is really just a natural progression of things as Thais realize the value of money, the wealth disparity across countries (and in their own country) and have to be more competitive in the global economy. My wife grew up here, left for the US for undergrad and grad school, and now that she is back, she says she notices a discernible drop off in how generally friendly people are as compared to when she was younger. Her parents say the same thing. From what friends who live in China say, the same thing is going on there. Competition makes you a bit 'nastier' -- esp when you're not prepared for it.

Well, if the Chinese build things, they dont ask and nobody dares to even mention a word. If the Laotians are doing the same then the whole world, spearheaded by the American clowns, need to intervene again. Clintons comments are uncalled for as long as the US is in a bigger mess than Lao PDR. The deal and the conditions might have to be reviewed by the MRC (Mekong River Commission) if there is anything wrong. While Laos is far from perfect they managed to inch into the 21st century with sustainable energy - unlike other countries!

I can't really agree with anything you've said as almost every sentence is flawed.

Well, if the Chinese build things, they dont ask and nobody dares to even mention a word.

1. Are you claiming that China has NEVER asked the international community for permission or cooperated with other countries countries pursuant to legal agreement obligations? I doubt that assertion is true.

2. Even if your assertion were true, it would have no bearing on what is right -- legally. Laos is a party to the 1995 Mekong Agreement, and so it has a legal obligation under that agreement.

Clintons comments are uncalled for as long as the US is in a bigger mess than Lao PDR.

Really, so the weight of international legal obligations rests on how we feel about parties involved in the legal process? Certainly you don't think the world would be a safe place to live in if everyone followed your line of thinking, do you? Isn't it something like the child who after being told by mom to wash up and get ready for bed yells to his mom "No, mom! I'm not going to goto bed at the time I previously agreed to because I saw you and dad up last night!". Pretty silly, no?

I just found some nice statistics..

Metropolitan Police Service all of London.

Robberies ( against a person )

No. of robberies previous 12 month leading up to October 2011 : 35.923

No. of robberies previous 12 month leading up to October 2010 : 31.301

That's by the way a 14.8% increase from 2010 to 2011.

Source : http://www.met.police.uk/crimefigures/

So because someone gets robbed in Phuket ever so often - its now the worst place you could imagine ?

I just don't buy into that.

The number above equals 1 robbery every 15 minutes in London.

And that is only counting robberies against another person.

If you can, please find and post the stats for Phuket or, perhaps, Bangkok and then break both sets of stats down by racial demographic. The fear is not that 'oh, gee, I might get mugged and stabbed in Phuket because it happened to some random person?'; the fear is that 'OK, could I be targeted for a crime because of the way I look?'.

Are these types of crimes against non-Thais the result of bad luck, or are these non-Thais being targeted for being foreign?

Michael Doyle

Practical Guide to Thailand Business Law 3rd Edition

Practical Guide to Business Law in Emerging Countries in Asia

www.asiabooks.com or amazon.com

Good guy if you want your company setup right. Partner at Seri Manop & Doyle Ltd.

OP, this (quoted above) is very good information. It is also good to supplement your knowledge with information found online. Generally, even in developed economies, there is still often no better substitute for well written books. Online resources are often not vetted and contain information that is sloppy, poorly written and/or lacks cohesiveness. This is true even more so here in Thailand where you will be very hard pressed indeed to find very good information online and especially if you need that information to be in English. Internet resources that cover business in Thailand (written in English and which are written in a trustworthy manner) are nearly impossible to find, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

Best wishes,

Very sorry to hear about this. Like many here, I hate traveling via bus, and mini-van is even worse, IMO.

The saddest thing of all is that Thailand's democracy/culture is not yet at a point where people feel empowered/compelled to demand positive action/change. Individual citizens feel they have no power, and thus they have none. They view their lives as cheap and expendable. Mob mentality works, but only when enough are directly impacted terribly enough and for long enough.

I love the beaches (especially in Khao Lak).

I love the fact, that even after 4 years that I live here...I find something everyday, that makes me wonder (positive and negative).

Live is interesting and so different than home (Germany).

If you get "close" with Thai people, they are the most generous, fun-loving bunch I ever met...except for the Danes, maybe!

Yep...the girls! My standard answer to the ever present questio "sir...you like Thai lady?" is: I like them as much as like any lady. There are good and there are bad. But what is the great thing about Thailand: if they are beautiful...they are GOD- DAM beautiful!

Yes, with all respect to my loving, beautiful, intelligent wife, you are spot on re the women here. My completely uninformed theory is that, by Asian standards, there is a lot of genetic diversity here in Thailand. You know, you've got a) the natives who were here, b ) the Indianization influence (Khmer/Burma), and c) the Sinoization influence as well. It's like the Asian version of Brazil. Anyone who has been to, say, Japan (even though the Japanese look was my favorite) I would be would tend to prefer more genetic diversity. It's good for the population. Pretty women here are like goddang kriptonite.

Edit Reason: change my unintended winking smiley to a "b ) "

I was/am a complainer, too, on occasion, but I have recently realized something that I need to say to be fair. One thing I really must admit I like about the Thais (as far as I have understood thus far) is that as long as I try to fit in and respect (and maybe even show interest) in Thai custom (all manner), they generally seem to be fairly accepting.

Just a quick example. I am fast. Very fast. Worked on Wall Street and lived in NYC. Move with purpose. I don't dawdle. Super independent. I'm also often serious and probably appear that way to most Thais. You get the picture. When I have taken this type of trait with me to various venues in Thailand, it simply doesn't work. Thais seem very much put off by it, and I often feel as though there is a collective effort by everyone around me to let it be known that it's not ideal. At first, I fought it. I thought my way was better (still think that most of the time). But, my wife has been coaching me. She told me to slow down, smile more; when people stare at me like they are watching an animal in the zoo, just smile gently at them; try to speak as much Thai as I can which isn't much; make a point to interact with people I see frequently (like street vendors), etc.

Under normal circumstances, I would not be interested in doing any of these things, but when I do them, my experience changes completely for the better. Thais seem to be rather simple in this regard. Just show interests and don't 'go against the grain', and they are cool (for the most part). I do not want to make this negative, but the other side is my experience in several places in the US where if you are different enough, you will NEVER be accepted even as a guest. As much as I love my country, I have to keep it real in this aspect.

So, all things considered, with respect to acceptance -- I'm not talking about being treated as a Thai, but rather I'm talking about being treated kindly and with respect (but certainly as a guest, in my case) -- the Thais do seem rather easy going.

Well, I have read (almost) all answers here, and I still don't know what is the answer to the OPs question.

Seems there are very few women who married Thai men, at least on this forum.

My educated guess is this:

- Since in traditional Thai society men have the role of providing for the family, women are not expected to support their husbands families.

- If the women offers money to her husband's (poor) family, it will be happily accepted.

- If the husband family is well off, then offering money could even be considered an insult.

If some Thais could enlighten us on this issue it would be very helpful.

Did you read mine? Unless someone can point to an acceptable study or have themselves conducted a study, the most reasonable way to answer the OP's question is to give all of our individual anecdotal evidences. The less interesting alternative, since the OP's question was asked as an absolute, is to answer it in the most direct and appropriate way which would be to say: 'maybe in some cases, but not likely in every single case'.

Anecdotes are the best we can do and let the OP decide. The point is to realize that there are all sorts of various relationships out here.

Got to 13 posts! Looks like it's fizzled out, though

I think it's more telling to reflect on value in addition to prices.

I think value is understood differently in Thailand than it is in many Western countries. Prices on items or services above item pre-sale cost (aka profits) are some arbitrary anyway and have much to do with how people perceive the value of the items/services to be. I can certainly eat street food very cheaply here in Bangkok, food that I would not find easily in NYC. This, for me, is a good value. However, on the other end of the spectrum, if I want a truly nice beef steak meal in a nice, clean, quiet atmosphere (something many people in NYC value), I absolutely cannot find that here at a reasonable cost. What Bangkok offers at my level of preference is abhorrent and so it is not a good value to me. You can say higher standards are at play, or you can be more polite by saying that there are differences in perceived value, but it's the same thing, imo. Same is true for real estate here. What passes for luxury here in Bangkok is simply trash to me much of the time and so not a good value, but it may certainly be a good value to Thais who can afford it.

The other condition is wealth distribution. With a country that has 1) no real, powerful middle class and 2) such a typically huge wealth gap between the rich (relatively ultra-rich) and poor (relatively very poor) -- this affects the value perceptions as well. You essentially have two 'values propositions' to choose from: poor value proposition and rich value proposition. To support these value propositions, you have in the rich corner a good percentage of the relatively rich foreigners (vacationers, expats, etc) and the very small percentage of Thais who are in the upper class, and in the poor corner you have almost everyone else. There is no real middle of the road value proposition to speak of here, and for this reason the perceived value of the high end stuff is hugely inflated in terms of price. Also, because there is no middle, the quality of the high end value prop is often suspect as there is no middle competition to compare it to for purposes of competition.

So, imo, the summary here is to live in Thailand like many of us normally would in our Western countries/cities, if we were more middle class and less ultra wealthy class, we need to spend more than we think we should to achieve similar relative value. And, with the rich having a complete intellectual and cultural stranglehold on Thailand, it may only continue to get worse. A strong, educated, open-minded, competitive middle class is what Thailand will need to really bring up standard of living for the masses and provide more cost controls, and that's not happening anytime soon, I fear.

As posted on the "global drive to help tourist industry" , thailand is more expensive than many europen countries especially as far as food is concerned, and i just cant understand why local fruit is so expensive, bananas and melons are cheaper in the uk,as are many other fruits , when taking into account the wage differences , thai fruit is about 400% more expensive, if it was'nt a hot country and had heating bills to contend with it would be impossible for most thais to exist, even if it was only cool in the evenings as with many other hot countries.......... chicken, eggs, pork ,are about the same,... so is beef of poor quality , biscuits, cake , spagetti ,quality lettuce, potatoes,coffee ,milk ,all more expensive here, and so are clothes, its a myth that they are cheaper here, they maybe about the same but usually of poorer quality , try buying branded trainers here, or sandals , they are double the price, i bought reebok classics, and slazenger sandals before my return this time at 1,200B, and 250B ,...... try getting them here for anywhere near that price, another poster says cans of beer @ tesco for 459B ? ........so are 15 cans of stella or carlsberge export in the UK...................... ..THAILAND IS EXPENSIVE !

In many ways, I would agree with you. It is a bit of an illusion that Thailand is cheap. The illusion mainly stems from the cost of street food: For 30 baht, you can eat a decent stir-fried lunch. Not really possible to eat lunch for under a Euro anywhere in Europe, or for $1 in the US.

Rent is generally cheap as well - but, then again, secondary cities in the US tend to be about as cheap. No, you can't find an apartment for $100/month - but none of them are 150 square feet either...On a PSF basis, cost is equal, or cheaper, in the US. Perhaps not so for Europe.

Beyond that, most everything else is more expensive in Thailand. And if you want your kids to have decent education and healthcare - well, you had better be filthy rich.