a2396

The basis of the Sin sod . is to show the mother in law's family that you are able and have the money to take care of their daughter etc.

If this is about taking care of their daughter, why would they keep the money to use for their own purposes, which many do?

Only the women and sometimes the lack of interest in anything not Thai. Otherwise, more fun than back home. Much better once you learn how to minimize the potential hazards here.

Am i missing something here, am I supposed to be with my girlfriend as a business transaction? Well bugger me, I will have to stop letting her go to work and pay her myself. or on the other hand she can continue working at citibank and bringing home her 30k a month which is then her money to do with as she pleases. maybe it is because she is now in her 40s that gives her this work ethic, or maybe it is because she didn't work in a bar or has low education.

Some of you guys needs to venture out of the bars and meet decent women, there are plenty out there (admittedly not all bar girls are bad and not all none bar girls are good, but you certainly do minimise the risk with a decent working girl)

"Plenty out there"??? Not where I live. Maybe in BKK or Pattaya. Most have ZERO interest in a Farang, unless they are in need of money and I am NOT talking about bar girls, etc.

Yes, enough already. The last straw. Crooked ladies a dime a dozen and now this. I will be packing my bags tomorrow. This stuff would never happen in Cedar Rapids.

Nice lesson! Better not to date a girl with below average income otherwise you would have to responsible for her life (financially). Sadly, most farang isn't attracted to high-so Thai women.

You mean High-so Thai women are not attracted to Farang men.

Par for the course here. Farang is generally expected to pay. This is not only a tactic of bargirls. I have seen this pulled on many occasions by so-called regular people. Not all like this, but I would say maybe 60-70%.

if you use protection she will not get an STD,

Hi, that's unfortunately not true. NSU, chlamydia, some herpes and even gonno can be passed between two people having fully protected sex. Not to mention scabies, genital warts and some others. All with a condom on from the day you met.

Why are all you ladies ignoring the fact this fella is trying not to be unfaithful to his lady? You seem to be concentrating on the "male sex fiend" possibility and not the "sincere loving partner" possibility. ?

Only because there is no such thing as "fully protected" sex.. That's both a contradiction and truth no mater how protected you may think you are it is virtually impossible to fully prevent some bodily fluid exchange and who wants to really?? Where's the pleasure or the intimacy in that? having sex inside a body glove......Ho hum....... boring!!!! Might as well get one of those new sex droids...

On second thought! Maybe I'm onto something!!

I just read, no sex since pregnancy?? There's peripheral issues here I'm afraid... Goes beyond just good advice...

I never got an STD using a condom. If you don't break them & use them properly they are very safe. However, not the most exciting way to have sex. AND, of course there are other ways of reaching satisfaction, if his wife was so inclined, which I would bet she is not. I'll let the readers figure out what those other options might be.

Get a mia noi. End of story. Wife doesn't like it or want it and has no empathy for his needs, apparently. This is a common problem, which often leads to the disintegration of the marriage. Some discussion obviously would be useful, but often impossible.

Living in a Thai village is not like Westchester County (NY-USA), in case you hadn't realized this. I would NEVER consider living in such places & I don't understand the "belly-aching", from those who live in Thai villages. It's a free country (Thailand) and they can find somewhere where they ARE happy. I have.

The OP couldn't possible be a native English speaker. I hope the schools aren't that bad in England. Why doesn't he just pack up and take his GF with him back to UK?

I have worked and lived all over the world. The place with the most ignorant, miserable and most unfriendly peope Ive met were in London. It was also the place I felt least safe. Has it occured to you that the Thai people are treating you as you deserve ? I have been all around Thailand and have only met nice friendly people and have never felt threatened ANYWHERE. I suggest you go back to London as you sound like you fit right in with the majority of people there!

London bad, unsafe?? You have obviously never been to America.

Interesting post.

As a business owner, hiring someone means filling a need in the company

That person has to have the necessary skills to perform the job

So in her case she may be overcome with fear of not knowing, or simply not have the skills to do anything

Putting her around other farangs I think is not a good idea because easy money can be more tempting than working your tail off

Why dont you invest 10,000 baht and set her up in her own business?

Then you can see if she really wants to make something of herself or if she isn't willing to put the effort in

If she puts the effort in, get her into school part time

If she is serious she will work much harder in her own business, if she isn't losing 10,000 is not so bad for everything you learned about her

What kind of business can you start for 10,000 bht??

I am surprised that she has any inclination to work. Most I have encountered figure that once they are the GF of a Farang, work is on improbable option. You mean you don't provide here a monthly salary? I am sure she could "fudge" a resume to camouflage her past & she would not loose sleep over it. If she is a former bar girl, I would presume she has some personality suitable enough for restaurant work.

To find "really genuine intelligent women" here (who might be interested in a foreign man) and have an interest in more than money as a first priority, is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

It's best to avoid places that have the name of the proprietor as the establishment's name, offer Premier League Football on a big screen and serve full English breakfasts and Sunday roasts then.

??? No such place where I live. I don't go "berry picking" in bars in any case.

Call it a swindle or scam or whatever but there seems to be a never ending supply of seemingly normal intelligent men that really get taken for a ride by some of the black hearted Thai women that are so abundantly available in the farang tourist areas of Thailand. I chalk much of it up to a "lost souls searching for love" type of naivete brought about by them being overwhelmed by finding themself living in a candy shop of easily available young pretty Thai girls.

It is interesting that when these guys (who should have known better) get taken to the cleaners or get their heart broken, many of them begin to stereotype poorly all Thai women just because they were so stupidly naive in their choice of women. I don't think it has much to do with age since naivete has no age limits. The reality is that Thailand has more than it's fair share of genuine, loyal, financially secure, honest, intelligent beautiful women but the key is that you have to be smart enough to figure out how to meet them and hopefully smart enough to realize that they are looking for a man with many of the same similar qualities that they see in themselves. I get the feeling from some of the posts that many of the younger guys have the mistaken idea that youth, immaturity, inexperience and financial instability are qualities that are somehow much more attractive to women than any of the qualities that older or more mature men have to offer. Just an opinion, but I have not found that to be true in either Thailand or the western world as most really genuine intelligent women look for qualities that are go much deeper.

To find "really genuine intelligent women" here (who might be interested in a foreign man) and have an interest in more than money as a first priority, is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

I can almost guarantee that the percentage of dishonest (will scam you) prostitutes in Thailand is FAR FAR less than any Western Country.

I would also guess the number of non-prostitutes that are working scams if far less too. There are scams everywhere and committed mostly by men all over the world. However the scams may vary depending on the country's wealth, modernization and culture. Just think about all the BS infomercials you see on TV in the US or think of the number of crimes (violent too) )in any city with even a fraction of the population as a city like BKK. Thais are generally much more respectful of people ... look at driving enforcement (lack of) and lack of stop signs, merge lanes, traffic lights and number of cars and motorcycles. What would be the results?

The vast majority of these old men claiming to be ripped off were not. They were paying for a service for a prolonged period of time and the lady simply moved on. Though girls in the west will often steal money out of a BF's wallet or even bank ... I don't here many folks saying this is how they got scammed here ... it is almost always them turning over money voluntarily without any kind of verbal or written contract of what they expect in return.

These old farts would never do this in their own country with a GF of their own age but then come to another country and do it with some prostitute 20 years younger and cry foul when the girl doesn't stay in love with them.

It all depends how you define scam or swindle.

Lets take a fictional example that is pretty common and you tell me if this woman swindled this guy:

Tom is on holiday from Canada for three weeks, his first trip to Thailand. He meets Lek at a nightclub and the two hit it off. She tells him she is single, went to University, works at an office for her sister and thinks he is very handsome. She tells him she will take off work to travel to the islands with him on his vacation, during which time she uses her charms to make him fall madly in love with her. When he is about to go back home she invents some hardship story for him to send 10,000 baht a month to her while he is away, until he can come back and the two of them can be together.

Lek of course never went to University, did not find him handsome, does not work with her sister and is in fact a freelance prostitute with a Thai husband and several other farang sponsors, just like Tom, who she emails and MSN's with constantly, telling them all how much she misses and loves them. She also has several Thai and expat kik's who know the real story about her but have sex with her anyway - some pay her, some don't - depends how good looking and charming they are.

So did Lek swindle Tom? Is she swindling the other foreigners who don't know the real Lek?

What if she takes it a step further and actually marry's Tom, after convincing him to pay a 1,000,000 baht sin sod to her family and build them a house. Never breaking of contact with any of the other men in her life and constantly making up stories about having to visit relatives or go to temple over the weekend - so she can visit her other sponsors when they come to town.

Is that a swindle or a scam? I say it is. It isn't a clear cut as the hookers in Vegas who will grab all of your belongings when you are in the shower and make a run for it - but it's still a swindle in my book.

Exactly and FOR SURE. Sounds like quite a few I have known. One of my current "acquaintances" meets this description very closely.

...it's gettin' kind a trollish...

On the basis of WHAT ??

Just to add some clarification to this, she is not a liscensed or trained tour guide, by any means and knows nothing of Vietnam. To my knowledge, she has never been out of the country and has no passport, as of yet. However, she is very attractive, charming and is an excellent singer and has sometimes done singing for money. So possibly some of the job would involve this type of entertainment. I think she is not beyond considering "other services", in the conditions are right. As with most women here, the truthfulness of their stories are not exactly 100%. I have know her for 2 years and she is an OK woman, more or less. I am concerned that she is not being hoodwinked and tricked out of the country for some other illegal purpose. A few years ago I had a female friend who was "recruited" by some lady, to whom her Mother paid 15,000 bht, to get her daughter a job doing massage in Malaysia. Needless to say, you know what this was about. Fortunately, she was able to get herself back to Thailand after a few days. I believe the story, because she had quite an accurate description of the events and the country.

so this lovlely is not beyond considering offering other services, what the hel_l does that mean. banging for bucks?

you gotta be just posting for the fun of it! just trying to titillate us, she may do IT if the conditions are right!

I would have no interest in providing stories for titillation on this forum. I am sure there are plenty of other sources and venues for such than reading stories on thai Visa. My purpose in this post was to find out what the probabilities are that such and offer could be valid or not. It sounds like it could be, if she has the relevant qualifications, which she does not. The other area where she may have qualification is her singing ability and general charming personality, which I think is quite good and may be of some value in an entertainment situation.

My real concern is that this is taking place outside Thailand. Once some of these women step out of Thailand, with no reasonable protection or assurances, some on the promise of dubious job offers, anything can happen.

come on man sounds like she being recruited as a sex worker.

no experience, knows nothing about vietnam. wake up! you doing your lovilies a disservice by being just as clueless as them!

and who refer to female aquantancies as their lovilies, you a pimp?

I am not the one who is clueless. I am well aware of what the "probabilities" are with this "offer". Even though she will be graduating with a B.S. degree in business & computers in March, she can be quite stupid & naive, and go off "half-cocked" with things I would have thought she would have known better about.

No, I am not a pimp. I use the term lovely somewhat sarcastically, since most relationships I have had with women here are definately not on the "up & up". Having said that, she is really a nice woman by comparisons here and I would hate to see her walking into something which could be "over her head".

I actually have to agree with several of the members here, and say it (unfortunately) sounds as though this is the fault of the OP. I'm sorry, but you were in a relationship with this lady for a year, and you didn't realize that helping her family back home financially was a very important aspect of her life? That's just the way of life here.

For example, take my better half. The family isn't rich, but they're fine. They have a little farm, mama has about 40 chickens, grandpa has 7 buffalos (had to sell a few to pay for little brothers medical bills), step-dad has a little convenience store that also serves food, etc. Day to day basis, they're fine. However, none of these things exactly come with lucrative pension plans, so when the children are old enough to start bringing in money, assuming they're not going to school or something, they're expected to help financially.

You shouldn't ever get yourself involved in a serious relationship with a Thai from Issan, unless you're willing to contribute to the family a little bit. And no offense, but after a year of being together, you should have known that.

Although I may agree with your insight and you may actually be factually right ... I "think" if he didn't have the means (they are in their 20s) to support the family now, they could have talked and worked through this. I think a big problem (if the family was a big issue) was her perception he could help but wouldn't. When I first met my GF and would say I couldn't afford something she didn't believe me cause of her perception of farangs here. And in fact it is kind of logical for folks here to think we are all loaded being international travelers and all.

I bet if she believed he didn't have the means and sent even a very small amount from time to time (that surely he could afford - like 1000 baht), this would have shown her that he did care about this issue being important to her ... and cared about her family too since they are part of her.

This stuff about caring for her family (by the Farang) is a slippery slope here. What family members? How often? How much and for what purposes? Clearly, it is apparently the expected thing, from the family, that any worthy Farang will be forthcoming. What is reasonable is quite another story. New house, cars, pay off debts for all comers ?? Not in my list of responsibilities.

Just to add some clarification to this, she is not a liscensed or trained tour guide, by any means and knows nothing of Vietnam. To my knowledge, she has never been out of the country and has no passport, as of yet. However, she is very attractive, charming and is an excellent singer and has sometimes done singing for money. So possibly some of the job would involve this type of entertainment. I think she is not beyond considering "other services", in the conditions are right. As with most women here, the truthfulness of their stories are not exactly 100%. I have know her for 2 years and she is an OK woman, more or less. I am concerned that she is not being hoodwinked and tricked out of the country for some other illegal purpose. A few years ago I had a female friend who was "recruited" by some lady, to whom her Mother paid 15,000 bht, to get her daughter a job doing massage in Malaysia. Needless to say, you know what this was about. Fortunately, she was able to get herself back to Thailand after a few days. I believe the story, because she had quite an accurate description of the events and the country.

One of my lovelies has told me she has had an offer, via a "sister" of one of her girlfriends, to be accompany tours to Vietnam for 30,000 bht per mo. I asked her what ere the job duties and I did not get a very specific answer. My advice was, not to go "mucking around" in a foreign country, where the "job duties" might include something not exactly legal there. Who knows what this lady (the sister) is actually recruiting for. I though the 30,000 bht salary is way above what any normal tour guide would make. What say you learned members on this?

It would seem the OP was not giving her regular monthly support, which most women expect here.

Regards most Thai women expecting regular monthly support; that's just another sweeping generalisation from reading too many broken hearted farang stories.

I have met several women who think exactly like this

I am not gonna ask where you shop for honey!

NOT from the bars or entertainment establishments. They were just "run of the mill" girls encountered through friends and a few from the internet. Of course, some from the internet are money grubbers. My remarks are made not from reading broken hearted Farang stories, but are from my own personal experience here. I have stated several times on this forum, that I have only met ONE woman in 6 years here, that I had any romantic relationship with, who DID NOT want money. To put this in some perspective, it is not a secret that many, if not most, of these Thai women seeking relationships with foreign men are on the bottom rungs of the socio-economic scale here and that explains much of the importance of money to them. Well-off, highly educated or professional women of marring age are not knocking themselves out to find a relationship with a foreign man. They don't need them and in many cases have no interest in them.

Well said. Precisely so. The age of the woman is no guarantee they don't want money. Some of the older ones are in more dire straights for money than the younger ones and their expectations may be higher. I am afraid the OP has made some erroneous assumptions.

Your not making sense. Would it not be easier for an older Thai girl to find a decent farang guy that they like and can provide for them for the rest of their lives ? The older girls have less and less leverage so they are more likley to give a relationship an honest effort.

Makes sense by my experience here. Time after time, I have seen 30-35 + women who have a much more specific agenda and requirements concerning a relationship and they do not mince around with a man who is not serious about marriage. This is providing they are of reasonable attractiveness, etc, etc. I so not mean desperate country girls, who look like they have never left the rice field. For this reason, I prefer under 30 for relationships. Although they have their won set of problems, I find they much more flexible, adaptable and open minded than the over 35 crowd. Maybe the difference is that I am not looking for a wife.

Personally, I would not touch marriage to anyone with a ten foot pole. Been there, done that - twice. Promising preconditions in a contract? UNBELIEVABLE !!