fruittbatt

Many of the touts are very plausible. A few years ago I took a friend to do the tourist thing at Jim Thompson's. On the way back down the soi we were accosted by a well-fed man in an ill-fittting suit. He spoke very good English & claimed to be the GM of an automotive corporation. I told him in Thai that we did not want to buy anything and were in a hurry. My friend could scarcely believe my rudeness. She stayed talking while I walked ahead. She was very keen to jump straight in a taxi and go to the gem sale he had just attended. She came back considerably poorer and wiser with a very ugly overpriced ring.

As she said, "when you are in there you feel like you have to buy something".

I'm sure your friend feels safe from scams in Bangkok with you helping her out.

Madness it was not for lack of persuasion and advice on my part. She simply would not believe me. Stopping a charging bull would have been a darn sight easier!

Strange thing is this same woman had been trading in Indo for years, and figured she could recognize a scam when she saw it on her first visit to Thailand.

Whew! Glad it all went off well, Bina, and hope the two of you will soon be able to relax and enjoy your hard-won marriage. I am so happy for you!

Last week I was cutting through Siam Square to get to MBK, and a middle aged thai women comes up to me grabs the end of my shirt and says Suay-Mak-Mak... I just look at her and make a noise like "Uh" and walk away.

Yesterday, after I eat lunch in Siam Square a different middle aged women comes up to me and starts telling me "this area no good shopping for man". i am curious to hear the scam so i let her continue... She starts asking me what I want to buy, then recommends platinum and some other shopping areas. If she has a pitch, it seems to be very delayed so I just get out of there....

Im back again today and I see the same chick approaching some other farang who are just minding their own business.

If any of you have connection with tourist police you might want to let them know something fishy is going on in Siam Square.

There are many scams around that area, because it is prime pickings, with many newbie tourists wandering around gob-smacked and with baht burning holes in their bum bags. The classic scam which Looney Planet probably tut-tuts to death is the "government jewellery sale". Other variations include my friend's shop: "here shops closed today...go to Pratunam", go on a tour of a lifetime in my friend's very cheap tuk tuk, taxi or whatever.

Many of the touts are very plausible. A few years ago I took a friend to do the tourist thing at Jim Thompson's. On the way back down the soi we were accosted by a well-fed man in an ill-fittting suit. He spoke very good English & claimed to be the GM of an automotive corporation. I told him in Thai that we did not want to buy anything and were in a hurry. My friend could scarcely believe my rudeness. She stayed talking while I walked ahead. She was very keen to jump straight in a taxi and go to the gem sale he had just attended. She came back considerably poorer and wiser with a very ugly overpriced ring.

As she said, "when you are in there you feel like you have to buy something".

Mamastar,

it is not only the "meek" who are groped on buses or trains, it is any woman within range of a groper (or with her back to a frotteur....I think that is the correct word). Crowded public transport in many parts of the world is a paradise for opportunistic and stealthy guys with a bit of stolen self-gratification in mind. Try India or Italy!

If a woman shouts or lashes out, these guys move on mighty fast or get out at the next stop, and presumably repeat the performance on the next train.

The workplace where you were exposed for your complaint must have been very hard to endure. Courageous of you to complain in such hostile circumstances.

fruittbatt

Could this be FunFunFun again?

Is this the general forum or the AGONY HELPLINE?

Must be some weird planetary alignment at the mo, with 4 guys in 2 days producing such tragic tales.

If this is indeed a sincere version of actual events, I would suggest that the OP read the advice given to the other posters.

The similarities between these narratives are remarkable. And the strange part?: ALL the guys are total babes in wonderland being led by the small brain by ALL these nasty, cheatin' grrrls. Can you believe it?

In response to Sheryl's suggestion, here are a couple of websites which give strategies for dealing with sexual harassment.

www.girlgeeks.org/ycareer/kforce/harass.shtml

www.awg.org/about/harass.pdf

The latter also defines sexual harassment.

La Reina,

I would like to have seen the grabber's face after you administered the not so gentle squeeze!

rainx - no, I don't know any lawyers in this field, but suggest checking other options first.

A good TCM practitioner and a good WM practitioner will both admit the strengths and limits of their respective traditions. My TCM practitioner in Australia ALWAYS referred my family to doctors/specialists/other medical services, when he considered this was indicated. I have also been to doctors who incorporated acupuncture and herbal remedies into their WM practices.

IMHO Western medicine is great for fractures. MRI's and CT scans are often invaluable technologies. Lasers are a brilliant invention.

TCM is great for organic/neurological problems. My family has been treated successfully by TCM for ailments ranging from Bell's palsy to period pain to migraine headaches.

I hope China will adopt a holistic approach and not throw 2000 years of TCM benefits overboard in its rush to modernise.

Incidentally, the efficacy of Chinese herbs was developed over many centuries by trial and error. Herbalists experimented first on themselves, sometimes with fatal results!

> it's not Pattaya!

Almost anywhere in Thailand isn't Pattaya.

But speaking of Pattaya, wouldn't it be great if Chiang Mai had a beach nearby too?

Yeah - the one thing I really miss. The upside is that it is one hour to Bkk and a connecting flight to an island OR 2 hours by taxi, 3 by bus to Hua Hin. From there you can get to less touristed beaches and small islands further south at your leisure.

I get by on a summer pilgrimage as described above and a swimming pool for the rest of the year.

In some workplaces I have been pleasantly surprised by and grateful for the LACK of harassment, and the considerate behaviour of men who refrained from salacious talk and swearing in the presence of a "lady". (I think they would have been mortified if they had ever heard me lose it, but that never happened).

In situations where I have been at someone else's workplace...2 doctors' surgeries...I have experienced the worst kind of harrassment or should I call it ABUSE. It is a total betrayal being felt up by a person you trust to handle your body professionally....especially when you are pregnant (the first sleaze) or menopausal (the second langwit).

What can you do in this kind of situation? I could have ranted, slapped the guys, stormed out shouting to a waiting surgery that the doctor was a grope-artist etc...Then I could have sued the first guy, ruined my pregnancy with litigation procedures and all the uncertainty which that engenders.

Like many other young women, I guess, I was a bit slow to realise that... yeah...this doctor is doing what I think he is doing...panic, shock. I twisted away from him and sat up, got dressed and walked out. Then I changed doctors and warned other women who knew this guy professionally and socially about his ways. Some evidently did not believe me. One said the same had happened to her, and added "but he's a very good doctor". Huh?

When this happened the second time I hissed "get away from me", stood up, terminated the consultation and walked out never to return. The feelings of violation and disgust and anger take a while to get over, and the feeling of powerlessness in that situation does not sit well with me to this day. But when it comes to litigation it is your word against a respected professional with money to burn and insurance to back him. The odds are heavily stacked against you from the outset. I respect any woman who will pursue such a matter through the courts, but I am not made of that kind of stuff.

These events did NOT occur in Thailand but in post-feminist Australia, at times when most women were aware of their rights in the workplace and elsewhere. Here in Thailand, if a Thai woman was faced with harassment at work or at a doctor's surgery, I suspect she would be as confused as I was, would act rather meekly, and tend to internalise the pain and humiliation. This is an area where a lot could be done to assist Thai women to empower themselves by assertion of their rights against unwanted predators.

the pace....generally laid-back and provincial

the people....friendly, helpful and encouraging

the mountains

the wats

the food

the climate

attracts interesting travellers and some great ex-pats

plenty ....in fact way too much....to do

proximity to some great natural attractions

the moat and the river and Doi Suthep

prices

markets, esp Warorot area

good second hand bookshops

an hour's flight to shopping, movies, hospitals in Bangkok (close but not too close)

the list is endless...........................

Your girlfriend's behaviour is obviously very very unwell and extreme. It sounds to me as if she has alopaecia, ie hair falling out unaccountably. Stress often makes this condition much worse. Certain drugs can cause this condition. Your girlfriend's rages and self-harming actions may also be drug-induced. Is she into yaa baa? Worth checking out.

Meanwhile, this young woman needs help. She seems to suffer from extreme jealousy and paranoia, as well as a total lack of emotional control. Her self-harming actions and threats to you are very serious.

IMHO you need to protect yourself by ending the situation as soon as possible, and to put her in good safe hands. Where is her family? Do you have any contact with them? Can you get her to go to a doctor with you to discuss her issues? or a strong counsellor? I wish I could be of more help, but that's about it ....All the very best

fun, fun, fun,

the heart-breaking bottom line is that your wife has stated that she does not love you.

She has also suggested an "open marriage" as a means for her to transit smoothly to the next man without having to face herself or the way in which she has treated you. This behaviour means that she really does not care how you feel, and that she is merely concerned to protect her own emotions.

While your wife may be considerate and gentle, she has no real capacity (YET) for loving another human being for themselves. The Swiss guy was simply "greener pasture" for her. She evidently did not know him at all well, except through his steamy text messages/emails. If she had known him well, she would have realised that he did not share her infatuation. He was merely a peg on which she could hang/project her fantasies.

The problem with your wife is that she has never grown up emotionally. I suspect you may be rather like this too. Her ruthless behaviour toward you does not necessarily make her a "b*tch", but it DOES mean that in her confused desire to protect her own emotional well-being, YOU WILL BE HURT REPEATEDLY FOR AS LONG AS YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY HER GAME. And that hurt will be harder to bear and longer-lasting than if you opt for your independence.

Ultimately, we all have only ourselves. We came into the world alone and will die alone. No one can "do" life for us. It's up to each of us to make of it what we will. I learned rather late in life that there are many people in this world who want you to "do" life, thinking, and loving for them, while they sit back and either enjoy or bitch about the ride. That's when I stopped taking on passengers and flew solo instead. When I had become a better navigator and thinker, I was lucky enough to meet a co-pilot. I wish you the same happiness after your marriage becomes a memory.

It is scary and very dangerous all this exploding fiery stuff raining down on people and property. Hard hat time! Bet the fire department is kept busy, as well as the hospitals.

If , as the article the maximum penalty is 40,000 baht, how can the police charge him more? The law may be wrong, it should probably be more, but how are they going to charge him more than the maximum?

Pizza Hut, KFC, Burger King, Subways, etc? Freaking pathetic if you ask me. Why are you folks even bothering to live in Thailand?

Chan hen duay (I agree). That's not food, it's heart attacks on two wheels. And it supports MNC's instead of local business people (apart from those unfortunate enough to have to work for rip-off wages at paper-hat jobs).

All of the local fast food, except for Pizza Hut, are owned by Thai companies...

Not according to http://research.mulliscapital.com/products/reports

which claims that YUM International (a US listed parent company) directly owns 270 KFC's and Pizza Hut outlets in Thailand. 90% of KFC's in Thailand are owned by YUM and the Central Hotel & Resorts group.

According to the same report, Mc Donalds was originally owned by a Thai franchisee but is NOW owned and directed by its US parent company.

Loi Kratong is such a peaceful celebration compared with songkran: lights, candles, flowers, balloons, kratong bobbing gently down the Ping...........KABOOM. Lots of LOUD fireworks along Nimmanheimin tonight. It's like Iraq out there. Any self respecting spirits would have been flushed out by the big bangs days ago. So why......?

Pizza Hut, KFC, Burger King, Subways, etc? Freaking pathetic if you ask me. Why are you folks even bothering to live in Thailand?

Chan hen duay (I agree). That's not food, it's heart attacks on two wheels. And it supports MNC's instead of local business people (apart from those unfortunate enough to have to work for rip-off wages at paper-hat jobs).

Thanks to MyPenRye for organising this group.

We enjoyed meeting a variety of people from different countries, age-groups, and perspectives. The discussion was stimulating, the company interesting and good-humored, and the food tasty.

look forward to the next time.

Bloody Tiger,

I have no intention of allowing this thread to degenerate into a slanging match or power-trip about whose perceptions are more valid or helpful to the children concerned.

My experience with needy children is limited. Yours is extensive and I salute you for your dedication to the children in Yala over many years.

I have worked very briefly in Colombo with street children at a day-school and care-centre. They were affectionate, bright kids, with a self-effacing, talented, dedicated, and loving teacher. I took my cue from her in relating with the children. This meant treating all kids as equally important individuals: a very hard call for an untrained person who is not a teacher. Especially difficult when some kids compete very hard for attention and affection from the newbie volunteer.

I believe it takes considerable maturity and practice to address the needs of individual children while being scrupulously fair to all. From my limited experience, it is difficult to avoid forming a special bond with a really bright avid child and to appreciate each child for his/her unique qualities.

Perhaps you could add the Hungry Horse to your "shortlist" it has the same management as the Queen Vic.

Never had breakfast at the QV but do concur on the breakfast at the Mad Dog.

Whilst on the subject of the Down Under I might add a couple of further observations.

Went there with a couple of friends a short time back.

The waitress could not tell us what the fish of the day was so I sent her to find out. She toddled off and came back and said it was "sweet lip" God only knows what that is, but it is certainly not cod as used by Queen Vic, O,Malleys and any other place claiming to be a decent restaurant serving western fare.

Result was I chose a burger (will come back to the burger later)

Whilst waiting for the food I ordered a beer "and as you do" I told the waitress (same girl) to be sure it was cold. She asked if I wanted ice. I said no! COLD BEER please. The beer arrived a bit colder than room temperature so I ordered the ice (which I later found that I was charged 25 baht for)

Got the first beer inside me and ordered a second same as before, "COLD BEER" please.

Maybe she didn't understand because the second beer came like they had put it in the microwave (well at least room temperature anyway)

Another criticism, or word of warning to anyone visiting the joint is regarding the chairs.

BEWARE!! when sitting down and pulling the chair forward under you because the wooden rail on the front has razor edges and it is just at the right height to slide down the back of your ankle as it did and took bark off both my ankles (as it also did to my friend sitting opposite)

Summary: Not a really great dining experience. I put the problems down to management (management after all is responsible for everything) particularly as it would seem that the only instruction to the waiting staff appears to be "here's your pinny and there is the dining room"

My friend incidentally had a rather forgetable meal also.

Ah! yes back to the burger. I don't know if it was sheer luck but it was one of the best burgers that I have had in Chiangmai. Guess that they have to get something right (at least some of the time)

If it was real sweetlip (or Emperor), the fish is quite delicious. see http:/www.thaifishguide.com/ for pic and description. Often other fish are substituted for sweetlip (eg mullet, which does not compare at all IMHO).

We tried the Downunder once for dinner...mainly for the upstairs breeze. Verdict: bland Thai food did not warrant price. We felt we were paying for the underemployed wait staff to scrutinize our every mouthful: very uncomfortable. Then there were the loud big-screens, and staff soliciting customers in the street...always a big turn off.

To add to the Big List: Other good and hearty falang breakfast options include Pun Pun Guest House and Daret's Guest House (no I am not a share-holder!).

I think that some of you are definately confused on this issue. I have seen my 5 children "BOND" in an afternoon of play or association with others (both other children and adults), this is a natural event and indeed a learning requirement for any child if he or she is to become part of society. It is essential for children in an orphanage to have contact with the community.

Please don't mix up the volunteer with the prospective adoptive parent/s...the prospective adoptive parent/s may very well come along and bond with an individual orphan (not with a whole heap of orphans) over a period of time and then decide not to go any further, this is very damaging to the child in the extreme but this scenario is not the same as the volunteers. The couple/person who wishes to adopt does not approach the orphanage with the same purpose of the volunteer worker. Please don't confuse the two.

I assume from the authoritative tone of your post that you hold a position of some influence at an orphanage?

Let me assure you that there is NO confusion from my perspective on the issue of bonding and NO prospective adoption in the wind for the elderly couple mentioned previously.

Your (biological?) children have the benefit of you (and I assume a partner) to be there as their parent(s) when the visitors go home. Children in an orphanage don't have the exact same relationship with their caregivers or volunteers or visitors. While the children hopefully do experience real bonding and love from those who look after them (and vice versa), where a person volunteers briefly it would seem unkind to develop an intense emotional bond with a needy child when the separation is inevitable.

Nor do I believe for a minute that all volunteers have a single motive, as you claim. I guess most, like Sally, will be there for what they can contribute to and learn from the children and the institution. Others may well seek feelings of self-worth, power or aggrandisement from their involvement. I can only agree with other posters who have made this point already.

I wish to add a reply to some of the comments made here and sincerely hope that it can be taken as constructive.

I have noticed that there is a certain element here that like to jump onto someones post mainly just for thier own ego and to try to bring people down.

In reality the vast majority of volunteers are definately not on a "LOOK HOW WONDERFUL I AM" blow my own smoke trip. Basically they are wonderful people. They are good and they volunteer from thier heart. The reward for the volunteer is a sense that they have helped. Sometimes the volunteer may be a bit naive and may ask silly questions or do silly things, but generally what they do is good. I'll repeat that, GOOD.

Now with respect to the case of children in orphanages, there are many avenues to volunteer. You can simply donate money which is always needed! Toys are great. Trade skills can often be utilised. But maybe the biggest gift is the gift of time, giving some orphans your time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. All children love to play and have fun, if you can help them do that for a day, a week, a month or even permanent then thats great.

Of course there are some bad apples and perverts out there. But I'll bet that they would be less inclined to carry out thier perversion on these orphans if there happens to be a lot more adult presense about.....Volunteers are GOOD. Good for the orphanage and GOOD for the ORPHANS.

So please don't come onto this forum blowing your own smoke and trying to turn good hearted volunteers away from helping dissadvantaged orphans. They need all the help they can get.

And to all you volunteers....great stuff, you really do make a difference.

Tiger,

IMHO the question which concerned some posters here was that easy or overly affectionate bonding with the children may cause them pain when they separate from someone whom they have grown to love and trust. I think that is a valid assumption and a sensitive response to a real issue.

I hardly think that sincere volunteers would be dissuaded from helping out by the cautions voiced here. As Sally has said, she is grateful for such well-intended remarks. Two friends from Australia sponsor a child (I think in this same orphanage). They enjoy visiting when they can and bringing useful items for the orphanage & the kids' use. They have also raised this issue of "not getting too close". Parting hurts them and they consider that the children would suffer even more if they demonstrated all the affection they feel.

Thanks Sheryl,

your clarification re tightening is very helpful. I will suggest my friend gets a price for Botox in Australia before deciding to have that done here.

Meanwhile the IPL sounds like the way to go for her age spots. The costs of the Apex and other clinic compare with Chiang Mai prices. I will pass on your recommendation, and would be very grateful for the Rachahoytin number if it is handy.

Thanks for good wishes re the visit: her first time outside Australia!

fruittbatt

Clinic's number is 02-617-2444. It is on the 3rd floor of the Major Cineplex compound on Paholytin and Rachaoytin, near Lad Prao. Forget the clinic's name (I've only seen it written in Thai) but the doctor is Dr. Prapai-Nalin, she also has hours at Phyathai 2 Hospital Skin Laser clinic Tuesdays and Sundays 10 - 4 which is near Victory Mionument but treatment there will probably cost a bit more than in her own clinic. I have the impression she opened her own clinic not too long ago and prices there may be negotiable.

If Phatyathai is more convenient, you could call for a price quote there, number is 02-617-2444 and ask for the skin laser clinic.

They usually recommend a series of 3-5 treatments a week apart, wil she be in town long enough?

Thanks for all that, Sheryl.

A. will be here for less than a month, so would fit in 3 treatments but no more. I'll give her all the info you've given me, and contact Dr. Prapai-Nalin if she decides to go ahead. I imagine A. would need to stay out of direct sun for the duration of the treatment, which might limit her options slightly, but I'm sure ingenuity will prevail.

Thanks again for your very comprehensive and helpful information.

fruittbatt.

Looks like Ms fruittbatt that you're not gonna be blessed by this posters company as he has set about organising a "meet up" in direct competition to that of My Pen Rai. (if you might call it competition)

I do sincerely commend you for your motherly response to his apprehensions though

Well perhaps I did rush in where lesser fools might not, John.

I thought it extra bad form of these guys to hi-jack the topic for their own purposes. They will be no loss to the discussion group IMHO.

Have a very happy wedding day, Bina and Anon. We'll think of you on Loy Kratong day. All the best wishes for a very happy life together.