fruittbatt

Thanks Sheryl,

your clarification re tightening is very helpful. I will suggest my friend gets a price for Botox in Australia before deciding to have that done here.

Meanwhile the IPL sounds like the way to go for her age spots. The costs of the Apex and other clinic compare with Chiang Mai prices. I will pass on your recommendation, and would be very grateful for the Rachahoytin number if it is handy.

Thanks for good wishes re the visit: her first time outside Australia!

fruittbatt

A friend wants to have a part-medical holiday in Bkk and CM. She was a smoker in her wasted youth (like so many of us!), and has marionette lines above her upper lip. She also has some age spots on her face which you'd never really notice as her skin is fair and she often wears make-up). My friend is 56, fair-skinned, and has firm clear skin (probably something to do with her healthy vegetarian diet and plenty of exercise!).

She has asked me to explore the IPL option for her spots and skin tightening. CM Ram does the treatment over a few weeks or more, and charges about 3000 baht a visit. To me this sounded fairly expensive, but I am a stranger to cosmetic procedures, so can't really judge.

I notice that Bumrungrad charges between 1000 and 10,000 baht per visit.

Has anyone had IPL treatment for either skin tightening or age-spots? If so can you advise whether it is effective?

If anyone has knowledge of prices or places which are competitive, I will pass on the info gratefully.

English speaking Thai colleagues would probably be able to advise about whether the overt displays of affection are culturally acceptable in the office.

If the dalliance is interfering with the women's ability to work, then i think your concern is totally legitimate. If part of your duty is to streamline procedure and business practice, then I agree that you should treat them as you would a straight couple. If it is not your responsibility, then mention the matter to those who are responsible.

Hi TigerBeer,

sounds like the NB is rocketing, and even before the official opening!

the Delhi Dharba (sp?) is an offshoot of the Royal India on Charoen Prathet. Same food and prices. I prefer the India, but have not been there for a couple of months following the only attack of food poisoning we have ever had in CM. (The fish?). Have always enjoyed the vegetarian thalis at R. India, and will go back in high season with guests.

- i got no idea where is the meeting .. and the dat eseem to be changing .

- say wed is the date -

i am more interested in meeting people and knowing people first then going for a debate.

by far.. from reading the thread and posting on other thread . i see much luke warm reaction ..

and had little hope of any real meeting up ..

as i guess the exposure is very small ..

i had met more people and chat with more people sitting at a internet cafe drinking coffee ..and talking to toally stranger ..

but i do agree with some that is not alway easy for stranger to meet up online as alot choose be only online reader..

..Huay kaew Residence .. i got no idea where is it ..

Please don't tell me that where you stay ...

How about some place central . or common to find ..

Like airport plaza , Kad suan kaew ,

i do agree that transport may be a problem for some ..

is there any arrangment to meet up . or picking up those who can't get transport ..

..

i had went to a few meeting so far.. and the responses to all this is fairly below average .. and lack of action ..

the last meeting i went a few month ago is puff up to 7-8 people and when i do go for it .. only 2 turn up .. and the rest is no show ..

- why not instead we meet for some cheap dinner . at some commonly known places like noodle or chicken rice and after dinner - we go on to some place where we can sit down and chit chat and get into any topic as it flow ..

.

anyway - keep me posted .. wed is just 2 days away .. can you meet me some where - i really got no idea where is the location you had said .

Ta, i assume you have travelled from far away to get to Chiang Mai, so you would be a bit adventurous, yes?

Don't worry about not knowing people or not wanting to debate because we hardly know anyone here either. And My Pen Rye has said it is fine for people just to listen in. I am sure it will be an interesting opportunity to meet a variety of people we would never meet elsewhere.

If you are worried about transport: DON'T WORRY, MY FRIEND.. Just ask the songthaew driver to take you to Kad Suan Kaew and keep walking past the shopping center and big hotel, then turn left and walk past the gym at HK Residences, past the entrance and you will see the restaurant on your right. The Thai food there is good: very good in my opinion.

I am sure that if you wanted to carry on to another venue after the discussion you could ask people to go with you. Hope to see you there, Cheers.

BBC world service this evening was harping on about a report titled the Stone Report - which has just been published in the UK.

It makes a clear case that the consequences of global warming are going to cost the world dearly and that something needs to be done not tomorrow or next week but NOW.

Blair says it is the most siginifcant report he has been given throughout his premiership (oh yer..).

Green taxes will feature more and more in the Uk budget - and they will feature big time. The average man in the street is going to start feeling it every day. Not only will fuel taxes go up, but things like light bulbs that are inefficient will be taxed more and more.

As for Thailand? We have that giant of an economy rising right next door called China.

China is building coal fired power stations at the rate of about one every week.

China by its self will undo the rest of the worlds efforts to reduce greenhouse gas production if it does not start putting in place measures to reduce its greenhouse gas production.

The intital indications from China are not encouraging.

Academics feel that Thailand can do all it wants internaly to reduce greenhouse gas production, but unless China does it's bit as well, whatever is done here will be undone by China's development over the next 10 -20 years.

The next biggest upcoming greenhouse gas producer (ignoring the USA -whcih China is anticipated to overtake in a few years time) is India - who along with China, is doing far less than it should or could. And Thailand sits bang in the middle.

Thailands farming industry is like it is horribly inefficient, and it's now heading for major climatic changes over which it will have little or no control over in the next 10-15-20 years. What then - poeverty will be even worse and when you consider that 48% of the country derives its income from agricultutral production that is a large slice of the voting cake.

What point is it taxing Europeans to the hilt to reduce their greenhouse gas production if the Asian countries are going to undo those efforts in any case?

Tim

Excellent analysis. Thanks, Tim. Thailand's position is unenviable, and the "doomsday scenario" you have outlined is grim indeed for the Kingdom. There is also the probability of southern Thailand being "cut in half" by rising sea levels....

the number 1 in the pollution stakes is the good old us of a, and they are just keeping quiete.

On the parochial front, the mega-floral event in ChiangMai, to be held over 3 months, is raising environmental concerns. The problem is the run-off of fertilizers and pesticides into waterways as a result of mass-cultivation of flowers for displays. How ironic!

When pumpuiman is told he is pumpui by a lady of ill repute....I like to say.....my belly goes away..***edited***

***edited by sbk***

lets keep it polite please

I didn't know that sex-workers were still called "ladies of ill-repute". How quaint! When I hear this expression I marvel at the hypocrisy of the client making such a judgment.

I do hope your belly does go away, followed slowly by the rest of you.

Hublet,

I do find the joke offensive, but am not angry.

The reason I find remarks like this distasteful is because the joke compares women with inanimate objects (some"thing") and because there is an underlying tone of violence in this humour based on sexual difference.

When women's essential physiological difference from men is mocked and degraded by being compared with an animal or an inanimate object, (or a "piece of meat"), my humour evaporates fast.

For the same reason I do not find some women's degrading jokes about men amusing either.

Cheers,

fruittbatt

I always wonder if all these coffee snobs are just taking the p*ss.

I find a cup of non-instant coffee with cream and sugar quite enjoyable, but that is about the extent of it - It ain't the ambrosia of the Gods.

As far as Starbucks being so terrible, I think that someone is fooling themselves. One thing that is true though, is, that it isn't worth near what it costs!

Ulysses, you have obviously never been ADDICTED to this legal pleasure. Out of respect for my skin and bones I have cut down to one EXQUISITE cup per day, and no more.

It is not a question of "snobbery", but of possessing the olefactory instincts of a drug-crazed sniffer dog, and taste buds that refuse to obey when the waft of freshly ground cofffeeee hits the breeze.

Starsucks is brown slop, not coffee.

For those with time and patience: read Thomas Pynchon's "Mason & Dixon" for interesting insights into 18th century coffee-house culture & caffeine addiction in England and America.

There is a small Muslim community plus a Mosque off the first Soi as you go into The night Bizzare...(left turn)..although you can't do a left turn..so it would be the last RIGT turn from the other side...sorryI am useless with street names but someone else will know what roads I mean.

There are also plenty of Rotti stalls in Assunan Market..and I am sure I have seen a Halal restuarant a few doors along from O'Mally's...sorry if this sounds a bit of a vague response ..but its the best I can do.

If your visitors want to see the Night Bizarre, there is a Muslim stall inside selling chicken kebabs & biriyani, goat curry (sometimes), chicken & yellow rice etc., plus an Indian-veg option stall.

The soi mentioned by Thai Pauly runs down the side of the orange colored sports store on Chang Klan. i am not sure how many of the halal places there are open for dinner, but Sophia - which doubles as a laundry - has some good spicy breakfast dishes. Also sells goat milk. Restaurants on the same side as the mosque do kao sawy and a smallish selection of other Muslim favorites. Prices are cheap and places are clean but basic.

I recall the (3) Coffee Worlds, Doi Tung and World News Cafe flat whites as being OK in HH. Starsucks is <deleted> everywhere IMHO. You can buy a good variety of ground coffees in Tesco or Tops s/markets, local and imported.

Incidentally, it is a serious coffee crime to refrigerate the bags. The resulting flavor is subdued even if you pre-heat the plunger & cups.

Hmm. The following is a necessarily veiled reference which some who have seen "the poster" will understand. Wasn't Elvis Presley considered a "lewd" dancer by religious conservative elements of US society back in 1952?

It's a pity they toned it down - alcohol kills many every day here.

It's insane law - not advertising certainly isnt going to decrease drinking, even a fool knows that.

very true brit,

if the government want to curb drinking then maybe a different approach should be taken,

give the younger generation some sort of future to look forward to,

why do so many yong people drink so heavily, my answer would be they are not happy with thier lot.

do not get me wrong, i am in no way trying to stand up for loutish behaviour, but i have been talking to my son and some of his friends in england about thier drinking habits, and the most common answer is they work hard all week, do not make enough to buy property or to make a future, so at weekends they have big blowouts, this is in the uk, but i can see the familiarities between the thai youths and the uk youths, they need proper jobs with decent pay to look forward to something. and to stop reading about thier respective governments seeminly wasting vast amounts of money on absurd projects.

until this is addressed then the thais will continue to drink loa koa which is not even advertised, it's just a cheap fix, to forget the problems in front of them. imho

While I empathise with the problems of younger workers, economic status is not necessarily connected with substance abuse.

In every culture at every period of history many people have sought escape from existential pain through use of substances, whether alcohol, stimulants or narcotics.

The desire for escape is linked by advertisers with increasing one's professional status, finding the right partner, being popular or sexy or attractive. Consumers are encouraged to hitch their hopes and ambitions and identity to the consumption of a particular product.

When advertising is not countered by public information about the destructive effects of excessive alcohol consumption, road safety campaigns and policing of drunk drivers, accidents escalate etc, etc.

In Thailand, as in Sri Lanka, alcohol consumption also runs counter to Buddhist belief and practice. The tensions in Thai society between big booze business and traditional Buddhist practice are very deep, and confusing to many who are caught between conflicting discourses.

A ban on advertising booze is probably too late. Business has way too much at stake here, hence the compromise. Maybe a better solution would be to tax big booze business hard to fund public awareness campaigns re the damaging physical and social effects of alcohol abuse.

Is the thread by the name "Beggars" the story of Pegun?

Thanks for the link. Alex: a very sad story and you have been a true friend to Pegun. I think it is unlikely that her cousin is head of the Home, though.

I often saw a girl of about Pegun's age sleeping rough on a cement floor and hanging around a food stall in Chiang Mai last year. I feared for her. She was quite tall for a Thai woman, never wore shoes and looked as if she did not wash at all. She had a wild expression and avoided looking at people. Yet she had quite good clothes. Her hair was roughly cut as if she did it herself. Once, I brought some sandals to the food stall where she used to go, but she was not there. She disappeared and I have not seen her for more than one year now. I wonder if this was Pegun?

For those of us who missed your original story of Pegun, would you please post a summary? (Apologies to readers for whom this may be old news).

Did you ever notice that trying to walk forward while looking over your shoulder results in walking in circles? It also inhibits your ability to see lifes speed bumps just ahead and increases the chances of repeating the past.

dvk, I would argue that a person cannot will themselves to "move on" unless s/he can shed the essential confusion of a mystified or abused past.

Hawaiianeyes was comprehensively deceived by a fantasist who had a lot of money, charisma, and powerful & probably very shady connections. To her credit, Hawaiianeyes was able to disentangle much of the stupendous web of lies Mr Dubie wove around his sad ego. She was also able to challenge Mr Dubie with her discovery of the truth about him.

As I see it, Hawaiianeyes, you are still trying very hard to sift facts from fantasy in regard to Mr Dubie. Someone was shot dead in Chiang Mai back in July. His Thai girlfriend was in no doubt that the deceased was George "Daniel" Dubie. Jeana/ Margaret Crane remains in jail here accused of his murder. I cannot imagine that she would have put her life on the line and her kids' lives in such turmoil by shooting a "stooge" for Mr Dubie. No matter what the identity of the deceased, her fate would be similar, and her chances of escape almost zilch.

I have read that Felicia Dubie was appointed as a "Peace Child" representative from Hawaii to Morocco a couple of years ago. Perhaps she met her Iranian husband there?

The talk of and belief in the jihad against the US is widespread in fundamental Islam. I suspect Mr. Dubie was bandying around such talk in order to enhance his fantasist identification with what he considered an "exotic" Oriental identity. Pathetic really, that he had to keep shoring himself up on borrowed images and discourses, and putting on so many masks.

As to the talk of him staging his death and going "underground", this is more melodramatic cloak and dagger stuff. He possibly imagined that he could explain his "absences" by such means. a more sinister interpretation could be that he was involved with some "dark influences" as we call them in Thailand, and that his death was an abiding fear. After all, he did have multiple passports and identities, as you point out.

Speculation aside, it is your present which matters most. I think we can never know another human being "inside-out" no matter how transparent s/he may be. In Mr. Dubie's case you have done brilliantly in finding out what you have. But don't go the way of the conspiracy theory; buying in to that one is buying back into the murky Dubie web. Live now for you and let him rest wherever he is.

> Beware the late returnees at this hour.......

> secret drinking and whoring haunts totally shitfaced

> I have seen numerous splattered motorcyclists and wrecked cars

We each can find 101 reasons to evoke fear and trepidation into ourselves and others, and surely some might get a thrill out of doing just that. Certainly each of us could write a short essay about why any of us might NOT go out and explore Chiangmai on a motorbike early each morning, but what would be the purpose? Bottom line is that being on the road and/or experiencing adventure of any sort, such as bungee jumping, river rafting, rock climbing, you name it, is dangerous, and we could find ourselves dead, or worse, mutilated and paralyzed. The fact of the matter is that I have lived a free, independent, wholesome, and full life, and when dying time comes I'll know it was meant to be. Furthermore, in looking back on my life, statistically I should have been dead long ago. Forgive me if I take your post all too seriously, but splattered MC's are serious business, and I've sat along side a few friends who happened to end up on that road. This post is about adventure, and so as the saying goes, "Live Free or Die."

Dibella, I applaud your encouragement to physical bravery and full enjoyment of life. One of the greater challenges of my life has been in gaining physical courage and ignoring the voice of caution which says "that's madness" or "you can't do that".

It all started with my first parachute jump. We were all waiting our turns when we saw our friend's parachute fail to open. She plummeted to earth and died. That was the end of parachuting for some of us. Irrational probably, but we just felt too vulnerable and sick.

After almost losing my sight a few years ago, I determined to make the very most of my faculties while I could still enjoy them. This meant giving up the thrills and accompanying nightmares of driving a tractor & ride-on mower on steep slopes, living with feral pigs, poisonous snakes, and a crocodile-infested river on our idyllic North Queensland rainforest property. It meant fulfilling my dream of giving up 7-day a week farm and wholesaling work, and retiring to finish my education and write my first novel in Thailand. It also meant reaching out more to other people: my husband, children and siblings as well as friends and acquaintances....and anonymous ThaiVisa forum posters!

Sometimes the blood stirs with a rekindled desire to hit the open road on a bike, and your post certainly made me recall the pleasure of a cool wind on one's face, the feeling of endless opportunity while looking at the sky on a brand new day, the thrill of cruising down steep slopes, the blur of green and tarmac, the pleasure in the skill of neat manouvres. Yes, I have become tame and timid here. thanks for the reminder. I've determined to get a Thai licence. The biking will follow in my own good time. You guys....enjoy!

Ladies in Chiang Mai, this is probably directed to you.

Any recommendations for a great manicure and pedicure. I don't need anything fancy, just a straight manicure/pedicure.

Thanking you in advance.

Most hairdressing and beauty treatment salons and massage places give manicures and pedicures. Price is not necessarily a guide to quality. I don't use these services often now, so don't have a "favourite".

Some of the busier and more expensive places will have one woman do the manicure while another does the pedicure. Often, one will be thorough and the other disinterested, so that you get a good pedicure and a so-so manicure or vv. I would suggest you check a number of places where you can watch procedings through the window before you decide where to go.

If you decide on a very busy place I would be quite careful about hygiene. I have noticed that some places do not clean clippers, files and picks between customers, which could potentially spread infections, especially skin conditions. Go for the place where you see the equipment being cleaned, or fresh equipment being used.

Dibella,

I'm impressed that you want to share your own pleasure in getting out there and riding with others. You managed to convey the feeling of adventure in getting up early, and cruising in the cool and freshness of the morning very well, too. Your descriptions made me feel nostalgic and slightly envious.

It also made me regret my diminishing reflexes and timidity re CM traffic! I'm with Thai Pauly on that one.

Hope some younger enthusiasts will respond soon, and have fun!

with coconut milk served on the side

Oh, Gross!

Have to nominate my husband for best Khao Soy in town, makes his own curry paste too!

Yum Yum!

Unfortunately doesn't have much time to make it often.

Sally,

I think our husbands have very similar tastes.

When I told mine about all the new kao sawy options in CM, he wanted to organize relay teams of tasters. His idea was to sample several new options every week and for each team to pick their favorite. Then of course there would have to be "elimination heats " until a clear winner emerged.

Sounds like a great excuse for much sampling but disastrous for cholestrol levels...

So when is your husband going to open his kao sawy restaurant? ...I believe you have your first customer leeeooowww

And about Just Khao Sawy, we tried it once....'nuff said.

Also for Olde Time's Sake... Daret Guesthouse at Thapae and Dara Restaurant on Ratchapakinai Rd are good low key / low cost options.

And then the Nimmanhaemin Restaurant scene has just exploded beyond belief. There's a corner around where Starbucks is, where there've VERY nice breakfast coffee / sandwich places, many of them airconditioned. One very old and long running place has converted into such a smaller, aircon, coffee & food place and it's very, very good indeed, also the Thai food: Ming Muang. Much smaller and MUCH crisper and cleaner than before. Was there last Saturday. Across the road on the corner of a soi there is a place that has an almost identical menu and 'feel' to Bake & Bite. Actually Bake & Bite is still a good place in itself, on CHang Klan Road close to the Saeng Tawan intersection. (Can use the parking lot behind the old Saeng Tawan building, that's the big ex-cinema which magnificent terracotta-tile facade was raped by DHL and other huge billboards. Anyway Bake & Bite is okay, but VERY American. Like missionary families going there with their kids. Younger dudes with baseball caps.. Kind of strange to see such a massive onslaught of normal people in Chiang Mai these days. :D

I agree that the food at Ming Muang is VERY good, with taste-bud-bending twists on old favorites. But I wish they would not push the dessert tray quite so hard...Mr Fruittbatt succumbs every time...and me on a diet...

Had a laugh about your description of the proselytisers (reverend brethren) at B & B. Went there for brunch today and there was one lady missionary wearing a t-shirt with a verse from "Corinthians" printed in Thai...grrrr. I like Gai, the owner of B&B, and her partner, and the comforting smell of freshly baked bread and cakes. There is an extensive falang menu. The small Thai menu is good and the food spicy. The staff are friendly, too.

A friend of a friend from Australia has asked for recommendations to dentists in Chiang Mai.

My experience is limited to Dr. Pramote and the Chiang Mai Ram's dental hospital. While CMR's fillings were brilliant, there were serious problems with a crown (Dr Pramote) and a subsequent extraction (Chiang Mai Ram). I still have trigeminal nerve damage from the extraction done in February at CMR.

I do not know precisely what this man needs by way of dental work, except that it is extensive and serious. I am reluctant to recommend either of the above clinics because of my experiences.

The criteria for this man are that the dentist be VERY GOOD and that the treatment should be AFFORDABLE rather than rip-off western tourist prices.

I will direct him to this site and would be very grateful for the input of anyone who can recommend good, affordable Chiang Mai dentists from first-hand experience of serious dental work.

Best kao sawy gai in Chiang Mai.

Tried Samoe Jai in Fa Ham yet?

No! but if they have a kao sawy to top Daret's you won't be able to prise Mr Fruittbatt out of the place ...unless you can lure him away with another big bowl of the same! Thanks for the tip!

The Open Univesity. I remember the TV shows of beared men in brown shirts at 2.am.

Is that seen as a good modern option these days? I am from the UK so I would feel happy with signing up with the O.U if it is a respected operation.

See your point Guesthouse, but in my case it is more that I want to study something interesting rather than practical. Rather like a hobby.

Fruitbatt, I will be looking into your suggestions as soon as I get a chance. May even PM you. Hope that's ok.

Your input is great, but I am somewhat surprised at the limited number of posts. I expected many ex-pats to be doing something similar.

Like a randy teenager I thought I'd be the only one NOT doing it.

I suspect there are several others, but perhaps they are too busy to read ThaiVisa as theses/exam deadlines loom! Griffin, you can PM me. My sister is also doing Honours (Criminology/Social Science) off-campus from UNE. Huge "menu" of courses from both unis.