fruittbatt

It's too late now. The leftists feminists and other minority do-gooder groups have got a firm hold.

The pussies in the west dont want to be saved anyway. When I mention reform to these idiotic laws when Im back in Oz people think Im a raving lunatic.

So men keep getting treated like dirt because "thats the way it is".

Best to live in LOS and let them suffer for their decision not to listen to logic and reason.

Paul McCartney would agree. Maybe he'll move to LOS as well.

dgoz,

although I fail to see the relevance of your diatribe to the topic, perhaps you could explain to the forum how the OP's rights have been violated or eroded, and how his dilemma indicates "weakness"?

fruitbatt - what kinda .. people you donating .. the clothes too . and how ..

please let me know more info ..

i have a car club with about 20+ member ( COUPE Cras only )

can you give me more info .. which part of lampang , or lamphun ?

would like to do some Meeting so maybe my club can go up and visit some kids ..

the last time i went to visit some kids .. there were so happy with seeing all this sport card . and i see their happy smile . so fun ..

maybe we can work out some kinda .. meeting to visit

would bring even more joy .

Hi Ta22,

both are Karen villages, one in Mae Hong Son province, in a mountainous region and access is by 4WD only. The other village, in Lampang, is accessible by regular vehicle. Some of the clothing is going to be delivered to the second village in the next couple of weeks. The gear for Mae Hong Son will be sent out with a person who works directly with the villagers, I believe.

Your enthusiasm is wonderful. As soon as I have more details from the Soroptimist International meeting, I will PM you.

(edited for sp.)

Yesterday afternoon several bags of clothing turned up in the management office. One contained the missing shoes, though no sign of the jacket or the alleged donation.

Internal security has evidently worked well and I feel very relieved to know that

Management has taken the matter seriously and acted to recover what they could.

I would also like to reassure anyone who reads this that the day guards, cleaners, and office staff have all been helpful and sympathetic in this matter. The fact that a theft occurred is no reflection whatsoever on the staff at Nakornping. The offender has (apparently) been dealt with.

The box is watched carefully, and emptied twice daily, so anyone wishing to donate clothing can rest assured that it will reach the two villages.

The current fashion of "tights with everything" also helps to provide a humid environment in which thrush can flourish. If your partner wears tights, they should be comfortable, preferably cotton. She might consider only wearing them when she goes out, and not at home.

I believe that Gonzo is correct in what he says in that not all volunteers are good and that the children should come before the egos of some volunteers. I don’t understand why TravelBUG and bloody tiger etc can’t accept that. Do their egos get in the way?

People like Sally should be encouraged to help as and when they can but Gonzo made some very valid points that I for one hadn’t considered at all – this is one of the reasons why I enjoy Thai Visa you get many different perspectives on the same issue some of which you agree with and some you don’t.

well said!

Thanks to all posters who have contributed positive suggestions and encouraging, peace-making comments. (Ta22 especially).

Thanks too to those who pointed out that my trust was naive, and possibly even placing "bait" before underpaid workers.

I appreciate that this is true, and that I might have considered the design of the box more carefully to try to avoid the "lucky dip" from occurring. For example, I might have placed a taller box, with a slot on the side, which would have made it more difficult to fish things out.

The lesson I have learned? Planning, and thinking more carefully about all aspects of a situation from a "Thai" point of view before acting.

Why do you think that people employed to look after a condo have any responsibility to safeguard your possessions? The fact that they allowed you to deploy your collection box doesn't mean that they become responsible for it.

Let me clarify that these are not MY possessions, but rather items donated by various people for villagers in Lampang and Mae Hong Son provinces who have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I have been impressed in the last several years by the kindness and honesty of most Thai people, and by the way that many DO look out for each other, especially where there is a feeling of COMMUNITY, ie in a family or a lesser bond of courtesy and shared place in a condo building.

Where condo management has sanctioned and expressed enthusiasm for the placement of a box, there is, I think, a tacit understanding about trust, even if there is no direct responsibility.

This act was a violation of trust and goodwill and a sneaky theft by people charged with ensuring "security".

I have not had a similar experience, but my gut tells me -- I have no certainty about this at all, it's just a feeling -- that speaking with all the guards first about what you were going to do, and seeking their input, might have avoided the problem. If there is still room for a non-confrontational discussion, it might help prevent a repeat of the incident.

The day guards were informed, in fact consulted about the placement of the box. Management gave their permission, and other Thai people and falangs were pleased to donate clothing generously, and to ask questions about the donees.

Printed signs in Thai and English explained the project clearly.

There is not much chance of a repeat night-time theft, as I am now clearing the box at least once each day.

Thank you for your suggestion, Rasseru. I agree that outright confrontation will not help, and have managed to avoid that, though I'm sure my anger is still quite obvious.

Recently I placed a collection box in the lift lobby at Nakornping Condo, for an organisation which is collecting warm clothes and blankets for two Karen hilltribe villages.

I attached signs in Thai and English explaining the purpose of the collection. I cut a slot in the top wide enough for people to insert warm clothing and small blankets.

Sadly, the slot was also wide enough for people to take things out. I weighed the chances of this happening in a secured space under the eyes of security guards. I judged it was a fairly safe bet that no one would rip off the needy under such circumstances.

Not so.

I checked the level of the box every day and was pleased to see that it was rising steadily. Last night (about 9.30) it had fallen. When I questioned the night-shift security guards they stated that the "Management' had taken items out because the box was full. As it had only been just over half full in the morning I was sceptical.

Management confirmed that the story was BS this morning. They also told me that a falang had put money in the box. I removed all the items from the box and sure enough there was no money. Several items which i had donated, including a quality jacket and a pair of Doc Martens shoes had also been stolen.

I have now removed everything from the box and placed a sign asking people not to put money into it. I will take stuff out at the close of each office day, but it bugs me that the finger of blame is pointing in the direction of 2 guys, yet management can only apologise rather than questioning the staff concerned about this low-life act.

Has anyone had experience of a similar problem/ If so, how did you deal with it?

I believe the traditional immigration policy of Australia was encapsulated in the following ode:

If you are white, it's all right

If you are brown, you might stay around

If you are black, you must go back

I've been told that Russel Crowe's breakout role in Romper Stomper was pretty spot on.

You got in one, Johpa. Who was that Bluesman? Big Bill Broonzy?

Russell Crowe's role was copycatted in the riots on Sydney's suburban Maroubra beach last summer, as bulk thugs, male and female, beat up some guys of "middle eastern appearance".

A good post Sheryl.

But still disagree on the point

If you decide on the latter, be fully honest with her and show some understanding of the difficult situation it puts her in

Not the bit about being honest and understandng, of course not. I totally agree with the need for this, and as I said above, I believe the OP has a duty to help her find her independence again.

But I do not agree that it is a simple matter of the OP's decisions put the girl in a 'position'.

That requires the premis that the girl is passive and unable to make her own choices in life.

They are both in a positoin of their own making. What that means to each and the impact of that on each is of course different.

Find the guy who dumped her with a child and you'll find the person who has reduced her choices and led her into being stuck with the OP and his selfish outlook on relationships.

Guesthouse,

DD's relationship is not exactly a level playing field.

His GF was 18 and a bannork girl when she met him.

He is much older, richer and worldly-wise than the young lady. She is also subject to all the pressures which Sheryl has stated so clearly in her post.

Furthermore, he is the one calling the shots as regards the terms of the relationship. She evidently wants commitment, he does not. It is his decision that will make or break the relationship, as he is well aware.

Whilst I agree that casting DD's GF as a victim is unhelpful, but there are obvious structural inequalities in the relationship which make her less powerful. If she were older, and richer than DD, this thread would never have never have been posted at all, because the young lady would not be in this invidious position.

From an historical perspective, Australia's attitude to Asia has been immensely ignorant and arrogant. Australia has never come to terms with the implications of its geographical location in Asia. The country has always seen itself as a European enclave on the butt end of the universe.

The White Australia policy effectively stopped any Asian immigration to that underpopulated country crying out for workers and families - until the 1960s. During the first half of the 20C bulk Brits and southern Europeans (Italians and Greeks) were given assisted passage to help populate Australia.

In the aftermath of the Vietnam war in the '70s, the Labour Party relaxed immigration restrictions and allowed some Vietnamese refugees to enter Australia, amidst howls of protest from a solid core of racist die-hards.

The underlying racism in Australia has not disappeared. Witness the popularity of arch anti-Asian racist Pauline Hansen and her "One Nation" party in the polls of the late 1990s. Hansen's popularity prepared the ground for the Howard government's recent policy of "get tough" on Asian immigration and refugees.

My father was a pioneer advocate of teaching Asian languages in Australian schools. He designed the first Malay syllabus and worked to help university students from Malaysia and Sri Lanka to adjust to life in Australia during their student years. The discriminatory practices against Asians in Australia were still appalling even in the 1970s: (called gooks, n*ggers and <deleted> and refused service or accommodation in certain hotels).

In the 1990s funding of Asian Studies programs in Australian universities was cut, even as China and India loomed as the major players of the future. In schools, many Asian language programs have been axed, although Chinese and Japanese have been retained.....along with French, German and Italian!!!!!

During the 1970s Australia "granted" PNG its independence after scrambling together a half-baked constitution, which, it could be argued, is partially responsible for many of the problems of PNG today. Australian mining has created environmental disasters in PNG - such as BHP's Fly River debacle, and the environmental rape of Bougainville.

Australia also tacitly condoned Indonesia's violent annexation of East Timor. To add insult to gross injury, Australia has recently ripped off most (about 90%) of the profits from East Timor-Australia's nat gas pipeline venture, the only source of significant revenue for this impoverished country.

Australia's diplomatic track record with Malaysia and Indonesia is laughably insensitive at best, politically disastrous at worst. It is scarcely surprising that ASEAN has excluded "white" Australia.

In regard to Thailand, the FTA notwithstanding, Australia's attitude to problems in the South and to the coup bear the hallmarks of xenophobia. there is total lack of understanding of this coup's "difference" from a violent military dictatorship such as that of Burma.

Thank you Dukkha for a thought-provoking post. Yes, reflection does calm the old aggro!

Expatriation is a particularly "fruitful" limbo IMHO in countries like Japan or Thailand where there is no chance of becoming a citizen.

Estrangement from one's former country and inability to "join" the adopted one creates a hybrid consciousness, a mental space in which we are freed from the oppression of nationalism if we choose to be. In this space we can see through the propaganda of nations, the futility of their wars, the hypocrisy of their policies, the pettiness of their exclusion zones.

Expatriation is partial liberation from the power of the State, which allows us to re-imagine and re-make our lives. We are free to reflect, to compare, to adopt new cultural values as they "click", to shrug off useless burdens, to learn new social skills, to develop understanding of people's needs in different societies, and to recognize the global nature of many environmental and social issues.

Expatriation works for me precisely because it is not a "home".

DD,

your post strikes me as frank and honestly curious, if rather self-centered.

Are you still nursing deep mistrust from a disappointment in a previous life? (will not profess love for your partner, will not marry her despite her evident distress and her separation from her daughter?)

Or are you anti-marriage per se?

I think your partner may be under familial pressure to marry and bring you home. Her wishes may be largely dictated by cultural expectations as well as family pressure.

She was quite young when you met her and does not work, as Maizefarmer points out. Is she rather socially isolated, apart from mobile access? Perhaps lonely too? Perhaps does not know her own mind?

Whereas you have had time to decide what you want and value, she is possibly just wanting the conventional marriage relationship because she has not considered that she could have other options.

I tend to agree with Maizefarmer: helping her to educate herself would be a great thing to do for her future, whether she chooses to stay with you or not.

Mangoes, papaya, pomelo, strawberries, orange juice. The bat attacks Thailand! None of that gothic stuff for me

....thanks for the support, Wolfie and will do.

What about blood oranges?

aha, now you're talking. Common ground!

hello Fruitbatt

Im not in ChiangMai, but have done some work on similar issue elsewhere, and am happy to share more info if needed. sorry I cant be of any practical help all the way from bangkok though

great work

Thanks MiG16.

Your support is much appreciated, and I will keep in mind your kind offer of further information.

Best wishes,

fruittbatt.

Nah, shes a fruit bat, i prefer vampire ones!

Mangoes, papaya, pomelo, strawberries, orange juice. The bat attacks Thailand! None of that gothic stuff for me

....thanks for the support, Wolfie and will do.

Hello to all the ladies out there on Chiang Mai forum!

Some of you may be interested to know about a new group which formed here last month: the Chiang Mai chapter of Soroptimists International.

Firstly, let me assure you that this group has no religious or political affiliations. The agenda of Soroptimists International is for professional women and women in management to assist other women to empower themselves. ANY interested women are welcome to join. SI has a particular interest in addressing issues of domestic violence and the abuse of women, and to put a stop to such abuse.

A vital part of the SI charter is cultural sensitivity and staying out of local politics and religion. SI is largely concerned with identifying areas of need and raising funds and support for local organisations which are addressing such needs.

At the next SI meeting, on November 18th (next Saturday), Professor Sombat, from CMU will be addressing the meeting about the incidence of domestic violence and abuse of women in Chiang Mai. If any of you would like more information, please PM me for details.

SI is currently conducting a warm clothing and blanket drive for two hilltribe villages. There are collection boxes at several well-known condominiums around CM, including Nakornping>in the lift lobby. The above plus any school supplies for the children will be gratefully received by the villagers.

I am wondering what men think about "the hollywood" ????

GF maybe you should ask them on the general topics forum rather than the ladies' forum? I think such a question would just be inviting the same old same old.....I'm becoming jaded with so much misogyny, and I hope I am wrong about men's responses to your question.

Sheryl, I agree completely that young women and teenage girls do need to be prepared for how to deal with harassment in all its manifestations.

Thinking further about the question of how to stop such abuse, I also agree that women who are aware of and able to deal with gropers can deter these guys from harassing other women by giving out assertive and protective non-verbal messages.

The "victim mentality" where a woman feels as if she is somehow to blame for the abuse and that she is powerless to deal with these predators needs to be addressed. I think we also need to beware of "blaming the victim" by not labelling those who are harassed (often from behind their backs) as having brought it on themselves because of their "meekness".

If any ladies in Chiang Mai are reading this, you may be interested to know that Professor Sombat of CM University will be addressing the Soroptimist International meeting next Saturday (18th) re the incidence of domestic violence and abuse of Thai women in CM. Please PM me if you would like more information. I will also be posting this on TV Chiang Mai forum.

Like you, Rocky, the experience of going to the land of one's ancestors made me realize that I was a stranger everywhere. When friends of my Sinhalese cousins saw my white skin, one asked "How did that happen?" The lack of a shared history and culture was unbridgable.

Yet in Australia I had never felt "at home" either: was always madly enthusiastic, energetic, and ill at ease with many cultural and political values.

After a while I realised that there is no "home", at least no material place where one can dwell in permanent peace, freedom, and security. These days my home is the place and space from which I write, in whatever part of the planet.

If a gay guy can post a thought- I think being able to sleep with someone and choose whether or not to do anything more is a sign of maturity on the part of anyone (including the OP). If you still get all hot 'n bothered every time you lie next to someone, you're probably not mature enough (or haven't been getting enough) to deal with sleeping with someone unless you've already confirmed it's for sex.

I've slept in the same bed with many straight and gay women and men who felt comfortable being there because we were friends. I think the OP can at least feel safe assuming that the woman has friendly feelings towards him of some kind- going to someone's home and sleeping with them requires trust. Anything else will require more communication with her; I don't think we forumites can read her mind.

I agree, partly....

Where there is no big weight of chemistry or expectations of a sexual relationship people can sleep together and feel quite comfortable.

In this case it seems that both parties were attracted, but Slated was not prepared to enter a sexual relationship quite as casually as his friend. The young lady does seem to have expected sex and to have been disappointed and confused when her moves were rejected.

Why Slated cannot just continue to reassure the young lady that he likes her, and ask her to cool it until they know each other better, remains a mystery.

I believe the OP likes the attention. His posting in the "ladies of thailand" forum now, and on previous posts, makes me think he is looking for attention from the ladies here, not their advice. His coming across as the "Perfect" guy( great shape, sesitive, blah blah,blah) may have some of you ladies swooning but smells like troll to me.

I had similar thoughts. Incidentally, I find bulk muscles a complete turn-off.

If a gay guy can post a thought- I think being able to sleep with someone and choose whether or not to do anything more is a sign of maturity on the part of anyone (including the OP). If you still get all hot 'n bothered every time you lie next to someone, you're probably not mature enough (or haven't been getting enough) to deal with sleeping with someone unless you've already confirmed it's for sex.

I've slept in the same bed with many straight and gay women and men who felt comfortable being there because we were friends. I think the OP can at least feel safe assuming that the woman has friendly feelings towards him of some kind- going to someone's home and sleeping with them requires trust. Anything else will require more communication with her; I don't think we forumites can read her mind.

I agree, partly....

Where there is no big weight of chemistry or expectations of a sexual relationship people can sleep together and feel quite comfortable.

In this case it seems that both parties were attracted, but Slated was not prepared to enter a sexual relationship quite as casually as his friend. The young lady does seem to have expected sex and to have been disappointed and confused when her moves were rejected.

Why Slated cannot just continue to reassure the young lady that he likes her, and ask her to cool it until they know each other better, remains a mystery.

Shouldn't the title read "How much do you give your wife or husband or partner each month?" or are you excluding everyone except hetero men here?

And what is the purpose of the poll?