davidstipek

Is this what is killing the BEE'S? Which are needed to pollenate our orchards to insure good growing season??

Is this why BEE'S are disappearing? I found one whole Colony dead in Honey Collection Box!

Was not Cobra Gold in progress when MH370 disappeared?

With all the Foreign Aircraft and ships that were here.... Are we led to believe that an unknown passed over the peninsula.... That close to the Cobra Gold Visitors (within their Radar- doesn't matter witch one was not working with MH370 location sending unit turned off) Or are we being led to believe that they could have been Attacked? This is how you would do it?

Not one Foreign Nation Scrambled a Jet to investigate!!! I cannot believe that!!! We (USA) had better equipped troops here in Thailand during Vietnam War....!

I thought the daul pricing at these so called tourist attractions were used to cover security costs. charging an entrance fee to visit and spend your money here will do way more harm than good. Then TAT will be forced to makeup more lies of why tourist number are low.

"I thought the daul pricing at these so called tourist attractions were used to cover security costs. charging an entrance fee to visit and spend your money here will do way more harm than good"

Sorry, I don't understand what you're getting at - "dual pricing" to me means that tourists are paying more in entrance fees than Thais, so an entrance fee is already being charged, no?

Example: If my wife would be asked to pay 10Baht.... I would be required to pay 100Baht!!! If she paid 100Baht... I would be required to pay 1000Baht... Understand?

The last time this happened my wife showed her ID Card paid her entry fee. I was asked for my Passport then required to pay the Inflated fee. My wife then asked why she was not required to pay the same as me, showing them her American Passport. Cashier said she was... She showed cashier both receipts.. They demanded them back, which she refused. We were followed to gate and she was refused entry. We had with us a Major Royal Thai Police (Family related) He identified himself,interceded... My fee has reduced... Go figure!

This is not here say... Actual fact!!!

Is this a try to leagize extortion? Since P.M. has verbally come out and stated it is a criminal offense for individuals to demand funds from expats?

Now all attempts will be able to refer to this and try to justify their demanding for monies in which to line their pockets... All we can do is demand a receipt and everyone has a phone with a camera... See who refuses to allow picture. We can start a database that in which future Tourists can refer...

We can justify the record keeping... As needed for records of all Taxes paid so we can ask for refund when filing as we leave Thailand... Also needed for proof when Taxes are filed in our Country of Origin!

They try to jack us... We can return the favor. Seems they have forgotten we already pay this fee each time we visit any park or like!

Maybe this is because Tourist's are not visiting these sites, thus their anticipated extra income has dropped dramatically? So now they want to insure they get their cut from the tourist trade. People falsely believing they have paid to visit when they enter Thailand. Thus when they get to the gate they are fleeced, and forced to pay the extra monies?

Maybe on the receipt we should demand a statement. That this fee covers all visits to parks.... Or a statement that this fee is in additional to the extra monies demanded at the gates allowing entry...

I personally would ask it to be clarified and written on receipt. Then I can have written confirmation of fleecing issue and overload my Consulate or EMBASSY. Then unaware future Tourists would be forwarded before traveling to Thailand. I have never in 12 years here felt the need, wanted to visit any of these sites. What would I have paid over the years if I had?

Let's see. 25,000,000 tourists at 360B = 9,000,000,000 baht.

So after all the commissions, fees, overcharging, backhanders, bribes, inflated over pricing, that 9 Billion baht will end up as another 2,000 Baht plastic statue at Swampy departure lounge.

Sorted.

So if we pay this on arrival, what receipt are they going to give us? Maybe a Card (like credit card) that can be used so we can pay same entrance price as Thai's pay... I was told that the reason we pay a much higher price then Thai pay was for this reason! Are they going to eliminate this and make it a Fair... One Price At The Gate?

Maybe it should be addressed just a little bit deeper...

The Victims were not Thai... They were both from the U.K. here in Thailand as tourists! Yet they were not afforded their rights to be protected by International Law!

This was their God Given Right!

Should not all Countries now be worried when their Citizens go on a vacation to Thailand when they are accepted here. Entry is logged in their Passport, being accepted as visitors through Immigrations, then not afforded the rights promised to them that was written in their Passport???

Should not Thailand be put on a Watch List? All Tourists be warned that if a Major Incident should occur... "They or Their Families" stand a very good chance of being washed under the table. Their rights being of no consequence here in Thailand...

Every Major News Outlet should be making this a headline, It should be Posted at every Terminal outgoing to Thailand!

Then lets see if the loss of a Major source of Income here in Thailand "Tourists" will get the citizens here to rise up and request Thailand's Visitors be given the same rights (not offered) that Thai's are guaranteed when they, travel abroad!

All the way around Major Income is going to be lost if the Judicial System here is not educated in what is mandated of them!

Even if every Tourist here cut back on there expenditure's by 2/3rd's it would cause a Major Alarm to ring in someones pocket!

Think about it! If you died tomorrow, can you be fully confident that your rights and those of your family be 100% protected??

I think not!

If I should disappear, we all know why! I have hit a nerve... Thus exposing the Truth! Thus I have exposed the true perpetrators in this Crime. What I have posted has been read, copied to thumb drives here and abroad to protect us all (Actually the complete file here is automatically copied so everyone comments are saved - 128Gb)

Everyone needs to stop!

First step that quite a few have forgotten. What type of trial was this? By Thai Judges... In Thailand!

Are the Suspects Thai? No they are as it stands (unless they are released) from Burma or if you want to correct me, Myammar.

Now are the Victims from Thailand? No they were both British Subjects!

So if they were tried in a Thai Court, by Thai Judges. This Court was bound to abide by International Law! Thus the trail was ordained in the normal Thai fashion, fashioned by the people who thought it would, like smoke... just disappear.

I don't think any of the evidence push through the Court, addressed International Requirements.

As the B2 being found the perpetrators in the case of Murder of both Victims... The Court being presented with the fact the presented Murder weapon being a "Hoe"... Yet their DNA was not found anywhere on it! What was found was Hannah's and that of two yet unnamed individuals! DNA here was classified by the Police as of no coincidence, so it was not introduced. Why because it would have help the presiding Justice's see a huge flaw. In fact David was not killed with it he was knocked unconscious, and either by the massive trauma's his head underwent (physical blows and punctures) then dropped in the surf possibly Drowned. Not once was the major trauma to his face... Sides of his head... Even disclosed in Court. Fact being this sounds being close to an inch deep each, everyone being identical, the massive blood that was loss here was major! How much flesh does a human have covering their scull?

Now you decide if International Law was followed here...

One last point to remind everyone... Yes the B2's DNA was charged to be on or in Hannah's body. What was presented in Court was " Here Say!" No evidence was every produced or presented!

It seems that the DNA that was collected, mixed with Hannah's was from 3 males! Not just 2... But the 3rd was conveniently omitted... Why? If the sperm found on a Victim is enough to convict individuals of Murder... Who is the 3rd Male? Plus just so you understand, Hannah was alive! When she had sex! This is proven by certain chemicals to be mixed with the boys DNA!

What it seems is that in Thailand you can be Sentenced to Death on "Only" someones word...

According to this report, phone records were checked in the prosecution documents case file, however it certainly makes no mention of Nomsods data being checked. Also how detailed those checks were is also up for speculation.

It chronicles the events leading up to the discovery of the bodies. The Report sets out in detail the steps taken by the RTP in investigating the crime and in pursuing suspects and leads. It provides an account of how evidence was collected such as the performance of mass DNA testing, the identification and retrieval of CCTV footag from across the island, and the retrieval and collation of cell phone data etc. https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/hq_15X0311_final.pdf

At the trial reference to Nomsod was mentioned but nothing about phone records:

The man Ms Witheridge was rumoured to have an altercation with at the bar was seen on CCTV in Bangkok later on the morning of September 15, and has denied having anything to do with the murders.

He gave DNA samples in front of reporters to try to quell rumours that he was involved.

But in court today the senior investigating officer said he had never received the results of those DNA tests, or indeed any documentation from Bangkok regarding any interview with the man. He said he had been promised a report but it never arrived. http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Maybe this will joggle your memory:

"HUH - I respect what you are saying but the fact that it was deemed necessary by the prosecution to state that Nomsod's phone records prove he was not on Koh Tao has resulted in a refueling of speculation."

If I remember correctly that piece of information came from a Tweet from Andy Hall, I'm not going to sift through all 30.000 or so of them for it.

Thank you for pointing me to a reply to one of my posts from Catsanddogs. The information she relayed to me could well have come from Andy but seeing as you cant be bothered to look for it we will never know. I also note when someone has referred to previous posts in previous topics you have labeled them as "stalkers"

Pot.........Kettle

Making a Google search for nomsod phone records site:thaivisa.com is not stalking, that your username comes up associated with it as the first hit is just deliciously ironic, seeing how you tried to pretend that I was making stuff up.

Some of the following are direct quotes from online article at : http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

on 17:22 23 July 2015 by Sarah Yuen in Thailand submitted to Eastern Daily Press in U.K.

"The defence has now been told to once again compile a full list of the evidence it wants to retest, which will be submitted to the police forensics department, asking for it to be handed over to the Ministry of Justice Forensics Institute in Bangkok. The trial adjourns tomorrow for almost a month. Andy Hall, the media spokesperson for the pro bono defence team, said: “I don’t think the court fully understood the testing process before, so when the police said the original samples had been used up, it believed there was nothing left to test. But the testimony of today’s witness has made it clear there would be conserved DNA residue, which could prove crucial to the suspects’ defense.”"

So it seems that the Defense was Dogged into believing that requesting a complete retest of all DNA was used and if a request for was submitted what was it going to be tested against... With no required logging of who handled... Where... When... Why ... and How there was the greatest possibility of something being altered! So I can understand why they submitted no such request!

"The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death. Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha said he was aware of rumours the 23-year-old from Hemsby had an altercation inside the AC Bar, while she was there with friends. But he said neither he, nor his officers, actively followed up that line of enquiry.

If she had an argument and it involved the subject of SEX and refused the advancement... It would have been a Major source of "Loss Of Face" if the Male was Thai. If the argument was in front of his friends.... "A more Serious Loss of Face!!"

"The senior investigating officer did insist there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar."

Of course there wasn't... No one saw David or Hannah leave either! Camera's not working or turned off for some reason...

"But the court was also told, of the 300 CCTV cameras in the area, 200 were not working, and only 22 captured any video images of the victims, and neither Ms Witheridge, nor fellow backpacker David Miller, 24, were seen alive again after entering the AC bar separately, between midnight and 2am, in the early hours of September 15 2014."

Funny they were seen entering... But after that not leaving...

"Their bodies were discovered hours later on a secluded part of the beach. Ms Witheridge is alleged to have been raped, and then murdered with a garden hoe."

The Rape is alleged only! Who can refute that they did not go swimming... The B2 were already swimming! the 4 could have met there and Hannah could have agreed to sex with the boys, They were probably a little more fun to be around and laughing joking.... Hannah could have agreed... If this was viewed by the participant of the earlier altercation that evening and his buddies... Extremely Deep onset of Loss Of Face would have been set in place! Now to rebut this in front of his friends he had to do something! Who is to say that after the B2 and Hannah parted company he confronted her and she laughed him off! He then used hoe to Murder her... They have the DNA (sperm) from the B2 proving they had sex with her, but from a Third Person also. Mixed in her sexual organ was the DNA from 3 males and hers. Who is the Third Male?? The DNA of the B2 was "NOT" found on the Hoe. Yet it is the murder weapon! What was found was Hannah's DNA and the DNA of two others persons... This was never followed up on.

Hannah was alive when intercourse was completed, we know this because her DNA fluids created by the acts of sex would have only been present if she was alive! The fact that there are no bruises in the areas prone to address these when Raped... tells us this or these acts were consensual!

"Their bodies were discovered hours later on a secluded part of the beach. Ms Witheridge is alleged to have been raped, and then murdered with a garden hoe.

Mr Miller is also alleged to have been hit with the hoe, and then left to drown in the sea."

David was hit on the top of the head with the handle of the Hoe. This did not kill him, it was used to subdue him. He was killed by the blunt force traumas to the facial, neck and sides of the head. the fist that was hitting him had an object attached to it that was puncturing everywhere he was hit with a serrated 1" deep v shaped wound... It has been said the punctures were like a single Sharks tooth was used. David did have bruising as being restrained as he was being pulverized, then as an insurance move after he collapsed in the water he was later hit on the top of the head, major loss of Blood came from the facial area traumas. Not from the top of his head... he was already dead!

"The police colonel admitted that CCTV footage of the port, which may have shown who boarded the early morning boat from Koh Tao to the mainland immediately after the deaths was never checked.

There was an audible gasp in the court when the police officer said his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat."

"The man Ms Witheridge was rumored to have an altercation with at the bar was seen on CCTV in Bangkok later on the morning of September 15, and has denied having anything to do with the murders.

He gave DNA samples in front of reporters to try to quell rumor's that he was involved.

But in court today the senior investigating officer said he had never received the results of those DNA tests, or indeed any documentation from Bangkok regarding any interview with the man. He said he had been promised a report but it never arrived."

Why? Who has it? Nomsod was mentioned in the trial, but not this deep! His DNA needs to be added to the DNA Profile File. Or is it going to change the direction the trial was going and insure others on Koh Tao would be involved. I believe the boys did not murder anyone! Have Sex... yes that is not a crime here in Thailand or a lot more people would be in Bangkok Hilton! Do they know something... most assuredly... "Yes" and that is probably why their items were left on the Beach. They ran for their lives, but came back later to get them. But said they were drunk earlier that evening to convince the real killers they saw nothing. Of course they heard the struggle, as did David that is why he exited the water and was killed...

So which is going to get you sentenced to death? Having Sex or using a Weapon???

It's not hearsay, and you know it as usual, it comes directly from the police. The police issued a quote saying that Mon and Nomsod were caught on CCTV and were definitely implicated in the crime. You cannot wish this fact away as it was quoted and released to the media by the police.

At best the B2 were involved in the crime with Mon and Nomsod, but Mon and Nomsod were definitely involved in the crime according to the police who had viewed the CCTV which filmed them at the crime scene.

The only speculation and hearsay is you trying to say that the CCTV is something completely different as to what Panya said it was, as it has never been released or presented at the trial.

I said months ago these pair were guilty of the murders.

Now they can rot away. Case closed the Thai Police did their job.

The lesson is don't get that pissed that you don't know what your doing.

Guilty of what and based on what ? Please explain

smedly:

you inserted the word injuries which is a deflection, no such word was mentioned, the dna has not been presented only a declaration that it matches B2, the rest of your post is your opinion exactly the same as mine

That one point alone would be enough to have the entire case tossed out of court (a court in a farang country). Even AleG can agree that hearsay is not solid evidence. Yet the entire DNA case put forth by RTP and prosecutors IS HEARSAY. They haven't been able to provide any actual samples. NOT A MODICUM, NOT A SWAB, NOTHING.

​THE ABOVE IS QUOTE TAKEN FRON AN EARLIER POST.... IT HAS BEEN ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPLETE THIS TASK AS IT SEEMS THE TEXT IS BEING BLOCKED IN A WAY TO FORCE ANY HELP TO THE DEFENSE OF THE B2!!!

What it is saying is: " The DNA has not been presented to the Court" The only thing relating to the DNA subject that has been presented was "a Declaration that it matched the DNA of the B2".

On the subject of taking a DNA sample... Anyone can hopefully wear surgical gloves, open a swab test kit and remove sealed swab with carrier to trap DNA on it... take swab and get sample, and return sample bag and seal it. Hopefully writing all reference data on label (so history knows path and date and Tech involved) and stick over sealed end of bag to eliminated any unauthorized opening of sample bag.

But this is not the result for the DNA test as some seem to think it is...

This sample needs to be sent to a lab that has been designated as in charge of doing test. Not lay around in some ones desk waiting for it to be requested, meanwhile being contaminated or altered. If it retained by staff and left in desk, Tech who took sample cannot prove it was DNA sample they sent...!

It takes 24 hours to isolate the DNA stem ladders, why? because 99.9% of all Human DNA is a match, if this is what the police lab got to match... Results are screwed!!! It is that .9% that needs to be Isolated!!! It takes 20-24hrs for this process, to insure no cross contamination of any of the Stems they have isolated, remember we need 16. Even then the results are not allowed to be classified as 100% as a positive match, that is Medically Impossible!!!

If I was a Prof. of Pathology or Doctor teaching at a Major Medical University in U.K. (This is an International Case...) or anywhere else if that mattered! What matters is the Oath I took that enables me to practice. As victims and those on trial, are not Thai Citizens!!! I would file a Law Suit against the RTP for faulty information being released, misdirecting the Courts in the direction of a Murder Trial and slandering the Degrees and Teaching Staff and University, ridiculing the profession of any Graduate who takes the Job as a Pathologist. As we try to teach "How a Pathologist or Doctor needs to be prepared for a case similar to this, what is Legally Required by, not State Law... Not the Law of any Country... But when a Murder is committed in a Foreign Country what is Required by International Law. Thus all these steps have been ridiculed...

Then you need to expand this when taking swab samples from a crime scene...

When it has come to light that there is a presence of more then one DNA in this case 3 plus the Victim! Now everything needs to have a trail (Who, What, When, Where and How... All need to be documented in sequence and by whom and what lab.

As it is required that each DNA sample be sent to a separate Lab!

See how big this has gotten just involving One DNA Sample? and... Not something that could be completed in some Island, Police backdoor lab!!!

The massive smoking gun you are talking about is the same evidence you want to believe doesn't exists.

Based on that evidence they were found guilty of murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, which goes to prove, once again, that you can ignore reality but can't escape the consequences of ignoring reality.

But hey, give it a shot, why did the defense do nothing to contest your supposed non-existent evidence? You make it sound like it would had been a cakewalk to disprove it... they didn't touch it with a ten foot pole instead.

This is the misinformation that you've been banging on for months that I was talking about. Just like lucky11 continuingly posting half of a tweet, you have been posting this same misinformation about the DNA retesting for about 4 months. The reason the defense would not retest it has been explained at length in this thread already, the fact you choose to ignore the posts about it is exactly the same reason that lucky11 is ignoring the explanation about the half tweet. This is the level of you argument. You have no real argument so you rely on posting the same lies and misinformation over and over.

Why did the defense refuse to do the retest they asked for with such insistence?

All I have heard is speculation that the retest was to be made with material that was not original, and every single time I have asked for a cite to support that claim I have heard nothing but crickets.

What I do know is that at the time the defense changed their minds they gave the excuse that it was because the results would had been sent first to the police and then to them, and they didn't trust the police; as of late the story has changed and now they didn't want to do it because it would had been sent to the court directly.

So where are the lies and misinformation coming from then?

Were told there was no more of the original samples in existance!!!

So what were they going to retest against??? Defense knew it would not be against the original taken at the crime scene... Just against the original report... That was modified, scratched data being substituted with handwritten logic...

Possibly rewritten to match an agenda...??

Smartest thing they did was refuse to ask for a retest of the DNA!!!!

If people want to keep this thread going I suggest you join those of us who decided to ignore Lucky11 and the other shills some time ago. It is clear their intention is to close this down as previous shills (or them in previous identities) have managed before. Don't let them bait you. There clearly is no point in responding to them since you are never going to change their position.

There has been quite a few Forensic Pathologists who have tried to post "The way International Law" has mandated evidence be secured and what paperwork required, if paths not followed, then Evidence mandated as inadmissable. And must be ignored by the Courts. Here this was flat ignored! "This is Thailand, not an International Court...

Says the level of thinking... Saving face... Has no place in any Court of Law... Anywhere!!!

"He has organized campaigns to ruin businesses in Koh Tao"

And that really hits a raw nerve, doesn't it?

This!!

A lot of these guys who are happy with the verdict have vested interests in keeping the status quo the way is it on Koh Tao and not having the boat rocked.

So what if two young lads who had nothing to do with it go to prison and get the death penalty... As long as the money keeps rolling in...

Despicable people

Who is known to have and to wear a ring ordained as evidenced at the crime scene? Does not one of the boys from the Bar have one with a shark's tooth a fixed to it? One that he is known to brandished when bolstering a fight or scuffle?

Why was the massive trama's to David's face not discussed or brought into the defense of the defendants? Was it disallowed because it would force an equation into the trial which would force the focus of the court away from the predetermined path already planned by the Island Police and others from the Island??

What killed David? It was not the blow to he top of his head... Was it the massive traumas to the front and sides of his scull? If so then the intentionally inflicted punctures must be included, also the B2 could not have done this!

If those DNA tests failed so miserably, then why refused the defense to request to have them redone?

BECAUSE there was and there still is no way to know if the DNA is reliable, the chain of custody is what makes a test reliable, and I don't know if you ve heard, but the documents regarding the chain of custody are incomplete and have been modified by hand.

Why test a DNA that is possibly not even the DNA found on the victim (if there actually was any DNA found..)?

Plus the original samples are "used up" and all that is left is something whose origin (blood, hair, semen) can't be determined, so it could very well come from of the B2's hair taken after they were arrested for example.

In most courts, this evidence would have been dismissed because of the lack of proper documentation.

As the DNA is the only element taken into account to declare the B2 guilty and send them to their death, the defense will completely focus on that for the appeal and hopefully highlight how unreliable these results are.

Plus as was said, the DNA proves intercourse anyway, they failed to prove the murder without reasonable doubt.

Do you really believe these two short boys could kill two persons like that David being far stronger than them ?

And the element of surprise isn't even there as the victims DNA were on the hoe (not their blood, it actually was said they handled the hoe, and the B2's DNA wasn't on the hoe, but there was a third DNA, why the hell isn't the third DNA investigated?).

The appeal will be interesting, I really dont think the story will go away quietly, it has generated too much interest and too many questions are unanswered.

Apparently now having sex with someone will get you the death penalty if she dies, found dead and your DNA (sperm) is found in her body... Who is to say that the following is not a correct version of what really happen the night David and Hannah were found dead on the beach, Remember this scenario has about the same credibility as the Police version...; here goes....

Hannah was approached earlier that evening by a Male in the Bar. He was flat turned down, "Now I do not want sex with you!" In front of his friends this was a major play in the loss of "Face", as he was Thai! David and Hannah continue to Party she forgets about the proposal. They later exit to the Beach, Both having consumed their (close to..) limit in drinks. Both went for a swim... Hannah now is feeling sexy she consents to sex with two young men who they met while swimming.

Meanwhile her movement on the beach are being monitored and the earlier Gentleman who was caused a great loss in face (embarrassment) watches as she has sex with two young Burmese Lads.... this further enrages him as his friends are joking!

After the trio go their separate ways, he decides to teach Hannah a lesson and firm up his friends by what he is about to do. Also leave a message on the Beach. He traps Hannah who now laughs him off... He proceeds to strike he with a hoe he had carried down to the beach... she ends up Dead! So he places her in a position demeaning to her and to post a message as to not "" with him to anyone who stumbles onto Hannah's body. While he is doing this David hearing a commotion exits the water to investigate. He is apprehended by two or more of the Murderer's friends, One proceeds to strike David in the Face... with his fist! Something he was wearing is leaving stab wounds about a inch deep in David's face this item is serrated on both sides and comes to a triangular point. Finally as David collapses he is left in the water hoping the Tide will drag him out.

Okay, we are told that the B2 were convicted on the fact of the DNA that was found mixed in her body... For this to mix she had to be an active participant in the act of Intercourse, after she was dead the body function would no longer respond. So Intercourse is a crime, They did not convict the B2 for the use of the Hoe, Why? because their DNA was not on it, in fact a year latter it was pulled from Police lockup and tested by Thailand's Senior Pathologist Scientist, What she found was not a single trace of the DNA of the B2, what she found was DNA from 2 totally different males. This is why the Police just said... "We never tested Hoe". Is there anyone who can say they did? but results were not playing along with them, the boys were already off the Island so no way to get their DNA affixed to the Hoe... lets just try to forget it, they forgot it was in a protected environment and would retain any information attached to it!

Again the murder weapons, were demonstrated to be the Hoe and the object that had pierced David's face, David dying from blunt force trauma, as little blood exited the blow to the top of his head. The multiple piercing wounds to the Facial area could have severed nerves and nicked arteries the major bruising would have drawn blood in large quantities to this area. The B2's DNA was not found anywhere on the Hoe.... Also they did not have in their possession anything to make they stab wounds in David's face. Was David Gay? was Sperm found (DNA) on/in him?

So to now go back and look at what the Courts sentenced (convicted) the B2 of Murder on was the presence od DNA from the B2 found in Hannah's body. there is nothing to fix any of the other damage to her body or David's to them. Infact it was tried to be suppressed, and not brought up in Court. Maybe the Court had disallowed if from being introduced at all...

Further more it has always taken 24 hrs plus to extract DNA, a lot harder when it is mixed! 3 people plus Hannah's. One of the reasons is because all human DNA is 99.9% the same. It is that .1% that gives us the ladders that form each individual, this is EXTEMELY difficult to extract! Yet the Thai Police Forensic Lab was able to do this in Record time??? By passing all the set procedure's and getting required Confirmations... they were able to do this complete procedure in Record Time! 12 Hours!!! Yet we were earlier informed that their Lab had issues, and the still came up with a 100% perfect match!!!

This is Impossible! Finding a probable match is just that! PROBABLE!!! It is impossible to get a Perfect Match! This is a confirmed result by the most extense Hospitals and Labs in the World!

Yet they were convicted... Because they had sex... If Hannah had went swimming and Pee'd would they still be sentenced to Death, Salt water would have cleaned her to hospital standards... Would they have still found that 3rd DNA mixed with Hanna's??

Yet they were convicted

You should apply for a job as movie or novel writer, especially the fictitious genre

As I stated at the beginning this was a... "What If..." In The World Medical Community about the same level as was presented to the Courts....

That's a Fact.... I was not the only one here to input some digressed Thoughts...

Think about it long and hard!

So sorry the accounts fail to meet your exacting international standards, its a real shame the DNA testing and evidence presentation also in the opinion of many that were at the trial failed the same test miserably.

If those DNA tests failed so miserably, then why refused the defense to request to have them redone?

BECAUSE there was and there still is no way to know if the DNA is reliable, the chain of custody is what makes a test reliable, and I don't know if you ve heard, but the documents regarding the chain of custody are incomplete and have been modified by hand.

Why test a DNA that is possibly not even the DNA found on the victim (if there actually was any DNA found..)?

Plus the original samples are "used up" and all that is left is something whose origin (blood, hair, semen) can't be determined, so it could very well come from of the B2's hair taken after they were arrested for example.

In most courts, this evidence would have been dismissed because of the lack of proper documentation.

As the DNA is the only element taken into account to declare the B2 guilty and send them to their death, the defense will completely focus on that for the appeal and hopefully highlight how unreliable these results are.

Plus as was said, the DNA proves intercourse anyway, they failed to prove the murder without reasonable doubt.

Do you really believe these two short boys could kill two persons like that David being far stronger than them ?

And the element of surprise isn't even there as the victims DNA were on the hoe (not their blood, it actually was said they handled the hoe, and the B2's DNA wasn't on the hoe, but there was a third DNA, why the hell isn't the third DNA investigated?).

The appeal will be interesting, I really dont think the story will go away quietly, it has generated too much interest and too many questions are unanswered.

Apparently now having sex with someone will get you the death penalty if she dies, found dead and your DNA (sperm) is found in her body... Who is to say that the following is not a correct version of what really happen the night David and Hannah were found dead on the beach, Remember this scenario has about the same credibility as the Police version...; here goes....

Hannah was approached earlier that evening by a Male in the Bar. He was flat turned down, "Now I do not want sex with you!" In front of his friends this was a major play in the loss of "Face", as he was Thai! David and Hannah continue to Party she forgets about the proposal. They later exit to the Beach, Both having consumed their (close to..) limit in drinks. Both went for a swim... Hannah now is feeling sexy she consents to sex with two young men who they met while swimming.

Meanwhile her movement on the beach are being monitored and the earlier Gentleman who was caused a great loss in face (embarrassment) watches as she has sex with two young Burmese Lads.... this further enrages him as his friends are joking!

After the trio go their separate ways, he decides to teach Hannah a lesson and firm up his friends by what he is about to do. Also leave a message on the Beach. He traps Hannah who now laughs him off... He proceeds to strike he with a hoe he had carried down to the beach... she ends up Dead! So he places her in a position demeaning to her and to post a message as to not "" with him to anyone who stumbles onto Hannah's body. While he is doing this David hearing a commotion exits the water to investigate. He is apprehended by two or more of the Murderer's friends, One proceeds to strike David in the Face... with his fist! Something he was wearing is leaving stab wounds about a inch deep in David's face this item is serrated on both sides and comes to a triangular point. Finally as David collapses he is left in the water hoping the Tide will drag him out.

Okay, we are told that the B2 were convicted on the fact of the DNA that was found mixed in her body... For this to mix she had to be an active participant in the act of Intercourse, after she was dead the body function would no longer respond. So Intercourse is a crime, They did not convict the B2 for the use of the Hoe, Why? because their DNA was not on it, in fact a year latter it was pulled from Police lockup and tested by Thailand's Senior Pathologist Scientist, What she found was not a single trace of the DNA of the B2, what she found was DNA from 2 totally different males. This is why the Police just said... "We never tested Hoe". Is there anyone who can say they did? but results were not playing along with them, the boys were already off the Island so no way to get their DNA affixed to the Hoe... lets just try to forget it, they forgot it was in a protected environment and would retain any information attached to it!

Again the murder weapons, were demonstrated to be the Hoe and the object that had pierced David's face, David dying from blunt force trauma, as little blood exited the blow to the top of his head. The multiple piercing wounds to the Facial area could have severed nerves and nicked arteries the major bruising would have drawn blood in large quantities to this area. The B2's DNA was not found anywhere on the Hoe.... Also they did not have in their possession anything to make they stab wounds in David's face. Was David Gay? was Sperm found (DNA) on/in him?

So to now go back and look at what the Courts sentenced (convicted) the B2 of Murder on was the presence od DNA from the B2 found in Hannah's body. there is nothing to fix any of the other damage to her body or David's to them. Infact it was tried to be suppressed, and not brought up in Court. Maybe the Court had disallowed if from being introduced at all...

Further more it has always taken 24 hrs plus to extract DNA, a lot harder when it is mixed! 3 people plus Hannah's. One of the reasons is because all human DNA is 99.9% the same. It is that .1% that gives us the ladders that form each individual, this is EXTEMELY difficult to extract! Yet the Thai Police Forensic Lab was able to do this in Record time??? By passing all the set procedure's and getting required Confirmations... they were able to do this complete procedure in Record Time! 12 Hours!!! Yet we were earlier informed that their Lab had issues, and the still came up with a 100% perfect match!!!

This is Impossible! Finding a probable match is just that! PROBABLE!!! It is impossible to get a Perfect Match! This is a confirmed result by the most extense Hospitals and Labs in the World!

Yet they were convicted... Because they had sex... If Hannah had went swimming and Pee'd would they still be sentenced to Death, Salt water would have cleaned her to hospital standards... Would they have still found that 3rd DNA mixed with Hanna's??

Yet they were convicted

Luck11 said,

" "If DNA from B2 were found inside Ms. Witheridge, it would seem they had sex; which, of course does not prove rape"

I think, if I was you, that I would edit this while you have the chance, otherwise it will surely draw ridicule!!

Why don't you read what you wrote again and try to see the errors in your words."

Lucky, you seem a bit confused. Are you saying a man's DNA evidence inside a woman means rape? If that were the case my poor ill-informed friend, almost all sex would be rape.

No!! I am not saying that at all. I am questioning how having found the B2's DNA (semen) inside Hannah Witheridge that it didn't necessarily constitute or amount to rape - in this partcular case!! Do you think that it was consensual sex? Please don't say "well, it it is possible".

You do seem to have problems. What are you saying? You deny saying any time DNA (semen) is found inside a woman it means rape. Yet, you question it not being rape. Fine, you question it; so must most others, including me, but that does not mean it is true. Would you execute two people on your question?

Smotherb... you are the one who's confused...

This is exactly what Lucky11 said, I Quote "If DNA from B2 were found inside Ms. Witheridge, it would seem they had sex" Nothing more lucky stopped here with a ";"

But he goes on to say further "Of course does not prove rape" he is saying having sex does not or should not lead us to a rape conclusion!

In plain words for you, Having sex with someone does not hit at, lead to or even in any way shape or form mention anything about rape! Usually when someone is the victim of a rape crime the have incriminating bruising located in various areas of their body, including the Vaginal area. Which were absent in this case.

I think everyone on Thai Visa would be happy to chip in and buy you a new pair of glasses!

On the contrary, there is a photograph of Shark man and other members of the football team he was playing for in that weekend's tournament, out and about in the bars that night, still wearing their football strip. In fact I have a feeling David may have even been in the same picture. Anyone got it?, although I don't know if it's worth showing again as they will just move on to something else

This is the one I think

Yes that's it. Shark man bottom right

Hey did they not say when this all started if you think or look back at all the pertaining posts. That Camera in Bar was not functioning? Only the one out side in front???

First... a definition:

From a free online dictionary....

Murder is the killing of another human being without justification or valid excuse, and it is especially the unlawful killing of another human being with malice aforethought.^[1][2][3] This state of mind may, depending upon the jurisdiction, distinguish murder from other forms of unlawful homicide, such as manslaughter.

Most societies, from ancient to modern, have considered murder a very serious crime deserving harsh punishment for purposes of retribution, deterrence, rehabilitation, or incapacitation. There are many reasons why murder has been criminalized, including its costs to society as well as being considered intrinsically wrong.^[4] For example, murder may be considered intrinsically wrong because it violates a right to life or is oppressive; murder may be costly to society by undermining law and order, by squandering potential accomplishments of the victims, by risking escalation of violence, or by spreading fear and grief.^[4]

In most countries, a person convicted of murder is typically given a long prison sentence, possibly a life sentence where permitted. In other countries, the death penalty may be imposed for such an act – though this practice is becoming less common.^[5]

^{Now lets back up....}

^{What if in real time this is what happen: Hannah Witheridge consented to have sex with one (or both of the ledged) killers, they then parted ways. This act was viewed by someone else or group so they killed Hannah, David witnessed this act of Murder and was then also murdered to dispose of any witnesses. How old is the semen they recovered from Hannah's body... you can tell age of stem cell. Is it Older then time of death? Is it much newer... maybe inserted in body to connect Zaw or Wai to Hannah, was it mixed with her fluids? or was it a stand a lone substance. Which would mean her body was flushed to remove every trace of anything else that was present. It would be very unusual if Male fluids resulting from the act of Intercourse were not mixed with the female fluids! Very... Extremely Odd! Is it newer then time of death? Was sex act not performed before or after her death? The fact that DNA was found in her body does not in this case lead us to believe the male partner was the Murderer! Was David Gay? Was his stomach and body cavities searched for traces of foreign DNA? Remember this Is Thailand anything is possible at this stage here....}

^{The fact that the Hoe was determined to be weapon used in murder, and the explicit fact that neither Zaw Lin Wai Phyo's DNA was found on it should have been a Red Flag! Sure there could have been intercourse that evening... But this is in no way a lead to say they are the Murderers! Who's DNA was Found on Hoe... it was never disclosed?}

^{But... Suppose... (at this point this is the only thing the courts found them guilty and charged the pair with Murder)}

^{Suppose Hannah was approached earlier by someone else, who wanted to have sex with her and she rebutted. This person or persons witnessed her have commissioned the act with either Zaw or Wai and became enraged! Enraged enough to Murder her after the Boys left.... Then David as he returned and witness the crime being committed....}

^{There is nothing to tie Zaw or Wai to Hannah except a sex act was completed... this is not Murder! There were no Bruising in the Vaginal area concurrent with rape... No display she was being restrained in anyway... Intercourse is not a crime unless committed against the will of another. Certainly cannot be compared at same level with Murder!}

^{The weapon (The Hoe) is connected to someone else, not the Boy's... QUESTION... WHO???}

How did the DNA tests come out? Oh... yeah... Thai perps.... never mind. "A rule that is not enforced ceases to be a rule". Seems to apply regarding murder of farangs in Thailand. Many Thais too, of course.

The DNA does not prove murder in this instance.

It simply identifies the weapon that was used to stab the German.

There could be a reasonable explanation why the weapon needed to be used.

Self-defense.

Yeah, right. There were only five of them and the guy was unarmed. So stabbing him was more than justified.

Hate to say it mate, but your defense of any Thai accused of any crime, borders on delusion. Keep it up if you want, it's good to have alternative opinions aired, but you've reached the point of making yourself look a bit silly, and it reduces the effect of any valid points you might try to make.

Simple fact:

DNA does NOT equate to murder.

I provided an example of just such an instance. In this case, DNA only identifies the discovered weapon was the weapon used to stab the German. The prosecution must build the case as to why the stabbing was murder. Thats the way the Judicial system works most places amigo.

The only silly thing here is guys like you not thinking before you post.

Silly but all too common on TVF.

OKAY.....

If you stab someone and they Die...

They Died not of natural causes...

They Died because you and you alone stabbed them...

This is murder until proven otherwise... You have it backwards!

Now we have a weapon, from which we have successfully extracted the DNA of the person who used such weapon, to commission the Act of Murder.

To further this, If two Humans are commissioned to create acts of Violence against each other, thus resulting in in the use of a weapon to commit the death of the other, This is Murder. Commissioned as such anywhere else in the world it seems except Koh Samui.

Missed the point... It is not a new two stroke. I have green book for old bike/frame and engine. I have transfered everything usable to new frame. Removed serial number from old damaged frame, cut it up and recycled the metal... 96 Baht...lol! Bike would still exist if I stamped new frame....???

'Public transport failure'

Fact No 2: More money is being pumped into public transport than is warranted given the number of people using it.

The Airport Rail Link is used by some 17 million people a year, and Bt33 billion is invested in it.

The Chao Phraya River and the Klong Saen Saep boat services serve more than 29 million people a year, but only Bt70 million is invested in them.

----------------------------------

But the boat services don't go to the Airport.

This comparison is ridiculous for a number of different reasons.

What might be a Income increasing game would be to change passengers on Public Transportation to use Bus Tokens... More then once a day I have seen the Employees collecting money and issuing tickets. Slide Bills (money) into a personal hid-a-way. Increasing their personal Daily Income. Put Token Exchangers at Out Side all 7/11's and in all public places. If this is tried for one year I can assure you that Profit (s) would increase. Would not be surprised if increases of over 75% suddenly appeared. This would eliminated Employees handling Cash! Using 2 employees or a Security Officer to Load and Empty Machines would minimize anyone Handling any Monies. Even to have machines dispense sealed cash bags only loading of tokens would be a manual duty. Doing this daily would show and allow comparison's with previous Daily collections.

I have been issued stamps that I could not read as being either damaged or counterfeit... I am sure when, Employees decides to use, the money collected does not go in the till!

Investigate or try... Even daily dispensed Tokens, if purchaser never uses all, still shows as Daily income for Department. I believe you will find about a 2/3rds of purchases daily match collected Tokens. Making it one Token for each rider, one value!

You would have accurate and current usage of Service. One Token... One person... For those of you concerned about length of ride there could be 3 different color Tokens (Blue.. White.. Red), Each having it's own face value. Still One Token...One User! 3 Zones, One Color Token for each.... Easy! Actual cash value of each in case of Theft 1/100000 of a Baht! (someone bringing in 100,000 of these for One Baht... HaHa!)

Like any visa - it can be transferred into a new passport.

Immigration could change the laws at any time which means they could cancel the Visa.

As ukrules mentioned - Thai Elite was threatened with closure a few years ago. During that period (a few months) no new visa's were issued, existing visas were honoured.

The service is good - there are threads running which members have commented on their levels of satisfaction which basically boils down to how much they value their time and how they value avoiding the hassles associated with application and renewal of other long term visas.

Airport transfer is very handy.

The free (included) yearly medical is useful - it encourages me to take a medical yearly !

The Golf & Massage are just 'dressing' but handy if you play golf and have friends to play with who are also members or don't mind paying for some of the more expensive courses.

Wrong!

Valid Visas are never transferred !

A valid visa remains valid even within an expired passport. It is necessary to present both old and new passports to immigration if travelling.

Absolute rubbish!!!! New passport last week and had to transfer my existing valid visa to my new passport.

The last statement is correct! I have USA Passport before it expired I went to Consulant here in Chiang Mai applied for new, as them for letter to requesting Courtesy Help at Thai Immigration to transfer existing Visa to new Passport, which I was given (I am on my 3rd Passport). When New Passport arrived I took it and letter to Thai Immigration... With a smile they happily complied. Other then getting queue number and waiting till called was very quick and painless!

Since I have old bike frame, and new. Old bike frame will be totally recycled. Since I have used engine and have green book... Why can I not also transfer frames serial number also? Thus keeping it as same bike. I have receipt for both. I have certified letter that old frame had to be replaced because of severe damage. It will not be new bike, just repaired to make street safe.

Okay using first bike was out of the question as engine ended up cracked.

So I bought another one from Bike shop that had purchased in Police Auction here in Chiang Mai. I have sales receipt for bike and engine, also original green book! As I stated in beginning at first post here I have built a frame, it has no serial number. Matching engine from green book is installed in frame. Green book is in original owners name and may not be able to find him. But I have receipt of purchase in my name and address with bike serial and engine serial numbers, also dated February this year. Can I take receipt and pay tax this year? What about stamping serial number on Custom frame and keeping it same manufacturer as the original bike was. The original frame is totally trashed and sold to scrap yard, serial number was deleted from this metal and frame was cut up into same pieces to enable hauling to junk yard in trunk of car. I have if needed certified letter stating original frame was damaged beyond safe legal repair and needed new frame.

David

I hope I can get correct Information on steps and forms needed to complete this ordeal:

I purchased a Suzuki from Motorcycle Shop that they purchased in Police Auction. I have bill of sale in my name and original Green book for Suzuki. Bike was Total wreck but the only one I could find with decent Electric start and all basic controls and wiring harness intact. I built a Custom Frame which of course is void any frame serial number. Frame is stretched lowered to match same wheel base as Harley. I used complete Honda NSR 250 rear fork and Disc Brake system, plus a lengthened Suzuki front fort and triple tree giving me factory front disc brakes. I have used the Original Engine that matches Serial Number in Green book, Build is now completed using LED Tail light and Brake light, Also LED turn indicators. Bike wiring has been modified to break it into 3 circuits

1: Main fuse total wiring plus Security system Alarm.

2: Head light and Turn Indicators plus horn.

3: Tail light and Brake light plus ignition.

Motorcycle is under 150cc. Uses fat rear tire on 17x4.25 spoked rim and Fat front tire on 18x2.25 spoked rim.

Clearly making to move from the antiquated fork / Shocks front and rear. Going from drum to complete front / rear Disc Brakes Halogen Headlights and LED lights has improved Braking and Visibility 150%.

Now I need to go next step. Since I trashed a totally unusable frame. Can I transfer Original Serial Number to this frame? Since this and Engine Serial number are logged in Green book. Or do I need to go thru a different Process? and what forms are needed?

I just reread the Title to the original post... "Reclaiming retirement Visa Funds"

Why is the required funds not in a separate Joint account, Mine is and my wife can withdraw with proof of my death. I as originator of Account can withdraw anytime...

Simple!