davidstipek

I think people are questioning the drowning because how can Police state ASAP "II WAS A CASE OF DROWNING" Did he perform surgery and open lungs, find filled with Chlorinated Pool Water? There has never been any statement in News or from Coroner's Office of this fact... This is only way to prove if in fact Death was caused by such. "Lungs have to be filled with water". Partially filled says corpse was dead before he hit water, filled says he was still alive and breathing when he went into pool! To say victim drowned because they found him floating in Pool? Asinine!!!!

all that is known about this case is that Luke was found dead in a swimming pool of a bar/hotel complex that he wasn't staying at, there is nothing else

The Thai police speculated what happened, nothing more than anyone is doing here

Nobody saw or witnessed what happened allegedly

There is no cctv footage

There is nothing reported from the bar where Luke was drinking (attached to the Hotel)

His friends and relatives claim there are injuries on his body that don't fit with the Thai Police speculation as to what happened, that is up to them, they are no more/less qualified than the Thai police to make such a claim.

Up to now all that is relied upon is the Thai autopsy regarding any injuries and cause of death, nobody here has seen it, some people might believe that such reports are tailored to suit an agenda or that details have been excluded - that is up to each individual to believe or not

This is Roquefort that say to Camembert "you stink"

You talk about policiere speculation as the only one who speculates is you.

Police had elements to formulate hypotheses. The body, the places, the testimonials... You have nothing, but you nevertheless give your opinion and pass lapidary judgment about their work.

Finally thank you to distract us a little about this sad subject. The show must go on, huh.

It has been stated that there are visible wounds to Luke's Body, or was. Was there any analyzed data of DNA captured in these areas? Also the rebuttal was that yes Luke did in fact Drown. What people are asking is if the Drowning had extra or outside help...? A search around Luke's Finger Nails and the Bodily injuries would produce fastest results! Unless the Police have already bathed him in Hydrogen Peroxide and given him a Manicure...

Gosh - this comes as a real surprise!

Do you suppose that there could be similar operations flogging pen knives, nail files and scissors?

But they wouldn't sell the booze they confiscate. This is Thailand after all.

So... "The loose security measures come months after a leaked memo from Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) warning that Islamic State (IS) terrorists had been dispatched to Phuket." {Quote} (Was this a planned failure???)

Malaysia was one of the Countries that had passengers slide thru Security... Also any of the other Countries of Flights origins could have had Terrorists onboard as there has been this tracking in the last 6 years...

Somebody failed in Maintenance! Heads need to roll... Somebody needs to be reduced in Rank... Demoted lesser Job Title... Lesser Income... or Fired!

Literally they have put the whole of Thailand at a raised risk... Also remember "Cobra Gold" is in Process! To do damage to any of the troops/Equipment/Ships/Planes during this time, would put Thailand at a Financial Loss! Not the resident's of Thailand... Being Royal Thai Police facilitated the entry into Thailand!

This is using same language and thought structure as Thailand uses against us! If they don't like it? Sorry it is still not defamation!!!

They are breaking international law by doing so.

if a crime was committed authorities in any country will hold the passport of the perpetrator. an international law concerning passports does not exist. period!

What Mindset are you in? Or can you not read... Or the only other option is you do not possess a Foreign Passport! As it is written inside, who is true owner of this issued Passport. To request possession of it they must submit request to Embassy or Consulate of Issuing Country in Question. This is stated bluntly in International Law in regards to how a Host Country is required to respond in regards to!

If not followed to the Letter, Host Country would have the possibility of being opened to a Defamation Law Suit, or possible repercussions in how Host Country will be treated in future by the Country of Passport's Origin. As end result who's Ass would be in Ringer at this point?

As I stated before, If they want to confiscate your Passport:

1. Tell them it is not yours, It belong to your Issuing Country and they need to request from your Embassy or Consulant.

2. Take there picture as proof of who wanted to take it.

3. Give them a copy.

**** Legally they cannot leave you without you issued Passport, while you are outside your Country of Origin. ***

What is going to happen if you go back to retrieve... At this point they say "I don't have it... Never had it!" Are you going to say "A Thai would never do this?" Your only proof of who took and when is getting a Picture. At this point they may change agenda...

They should charge them in the international courts where evidence of these crimes can no longer be hidden from the Thai people and the rest of the world.

Not necessary...no Thai would do such a thing.

Ha! File charges in correct Court System...

Then force their hand! Make them prove "No Thai Would Do Such A Thing".

Then its either positively Disprove... Or eat your words!

If charges filed correctly you would stop being Bullied by those who have something to hide to keep their Posts.....

They should charge them in the international courts where evidence of these crimes can no longer be hidden from the Thai people and the rest of the world.

Then and only then can they be protected from defamation charges. Also at this point will have to respond. It will be their job to disprove the charges. If cannot then the Courts will find Thai Government Guilty of Torture Allegations. This would be a total lose of face in the International Community, with no grounds for any repercussions against the Human Rights Groups!

Human Rights Groups need to realize that filing charges in Thai Courts has no merit, 95% chance to be ignored or counter sued for Defamation charges....

Get on the right page!

No, no and no...in fact if any Thai police (use the term loosely) try to confiscate my passport I will immediately state that you are in the process of committing a crime and I will contact my embassy immediately and demand a charge be held against him/her.

I have always been told it is a violation of international law to hold a persons passport that only the goverment that you got the passport from has the right to take it. Please corect me if I am wrong.

OK

But out of your Country of origin never surrender to anyone! This is a major violation of International Law.... Thailand can never make up their own Laws! In doing so they are committing a crime also. If you have broken the law they need to take you to your EMBASSY or Consulate, Passport is the sole owner of your Country from which it has been issued!!! Only they can take from your person!!!

Is there not a Law passed and on the books here that an American, in Thailand is authorized to have his own Company here, and is not bound by the stipulations force on other Company ventures?

Is this what is killing the BEE'S? Which are needed to pollenate our orchards to insure good growing season??

Is this why BEE'S are disappearing? I found one whole Colony dead in Honey Collection Box!

Was not Cobra Gold in progress when MH370 disappeared?

With all the Foreign Aircraft and ships that were here.... Are we led to believe that an unknown passed over the peninsula.... That close to the Cobra Gold Visitors (within their Radar- doesn't matter witch one was not working with MH370 location sending unit turned off) Or are we being led to believe that they could have been Attacked? This is how you would do it?

Not one Foreign Nation Scrambled a Jet to investigate!!! I cannot believe that!!! We (USA) had better equipped troops here in Thailand during Vietnam War....!

I thought the daul pricing at these so called tourist attractions were used to cover security costs. charging an entrance fee to visit and spend your money here will do way more harm than good. Then TAT will be forced to makeup more lies of why tourist number are low.

"I thought the daul pricing at these so called tourist attractions were used to cover security costs. charging an entrance fee to visit and spend your money here will do way more harm than good"

Sorry, I don't understand what you're getting at - "dual pricing" to me means that tourists are paying more in entrance fees than Thais, so an entrance fee is already being charged, no?

Example: If my wife would be asked to pay 10Baht.... I would be required to pay 100Baht!!! If she paid 100Baht... I would be required to pay 1000Baht... Understand?

The last time this happened my wife showed her ID Card paid her entry fee. I was asked for my Passport then required to pay the Inflated fee. My wife then asked why she was not required to pay the same as me, showing them her American Passport. Cashier said she was... She showed cashier both receipts.. They demanded them back, which she refused. We were followed to gate and she was refused entry. We had with us a Major Royal Thai Police (Family related) He identified himself,interceded... My fee has reduced... Go figure!

This is not here say... Actual fact!!!

Is this a try to leagize extortion? Since P.M. has verbally come out and stated it is a criminal offense for individuals to demand funds from expats?

Now all attempts will be able to refer to this and try to justify their demanding for monies in which to line their pockets... All we can do is demand a receipt and everyone has a phone with a camera... See who refuses to allow picture. We can start a database that in which future Tourists can refer...

We can justify the record keeping... As needed for records of all Taxes paid so we can ask for refund when filing as we leave Thailand... Also needed for proof when Taxes are filed in our Country of Origin!

They try to jack us... We can return the favor. Seems they have forgotten we already pay this fee each time we visit any park or like!

Maybe this is because Tourist's are not visiting these sites, thus their anticipated extra income has dropped dramatically? So now they want to insure they get their cut from the tourist trade. People falsely believing they have paid to visit when they enter Thailand. Thus when they get to the gate they are fleeced, and forced to pay the extra monies?

Maybe on the receipt we should demand a statement. That this fee covers all visits to parks.... Or a statement that this fee is in additional to the extra monies demanded at the gates allowing entry...

I personally would ask it to be clarified and written on receipt. Then I can have written confirmation of fleecing issue and overload my Consulate or EMBASSY. Then unaware future Tourists would be forwarded before traveling to Thailand. I have never in 12 years here felt the need, wanted to visit any of these sites. What would I have paid over the years if I had?

Let's see. 25,000,000 tourists at 360B = 9,000,000,000 baht.

So after all the commissions, fees, overcharging, backhanders, bribes, inflated over pricing, that 9 Billion baht will end up as another 2,000 Baht plastic statue at Swampy departure lounge.

Sorted.

So if we pay this on arrival, what receipt are they going to give us? Maybe a Card (like credit card) that can be used so we can pay same entrance price as Thai's pay... I was told that the reason we pay a much higher price then Thai pay was for this reason! Are they going to eliminate this and make it a Fair... One Price At The Gate?

Maybe it should be addressed just a little bit deeper...

The Victims were not Thai... They were both from the U.K. here in Thailand as tourists! Yet they were not afforded their rights to be protected by International Law!

This was their God Given Right!

Should not all Countries now be worried when their Citizens go on a vacation to Thailand when they are accepted here. Entry is logged in their Passport, being accepted as visitors through Immigrations, then not afforded the rights promised to them that was written in their Passport???

Should not Thailand be put on a Watch List? All Tourists be warned that if a Major Incident should occur... "They or Their Families" stand a very good chance of being washed under the table. Their rights being of no consequence here in Thailand...

Every Major News Outlet should be making this a headline, It should be Posted at every Terminal outgoing to Thailand!

Then lets see if the loss of a Major source of Income here in Thailand "Tourists" will get the citizens here to rise up and request Thailand's Visitors be given the same rights (not offered) that Thai's are guaranteed when they, travel abroad!

All the way around Major Income is going to be lost if the Judicial System here is not educated in what is mandated of them!

Even if every Tourist here cut back on there expenditure's by 2/3rd's it would cause a Major Alarm to ring in someones pocket!

Think about it! If you died tomorrow, can you be fully confident that your rights and those of your family be 100% protected??

I think not!

If I should disappear, we all know why! I have hit a nerve... Thus exposing the Truth! Thus I have exposed the true perpetrators in this Crime. What I have posted has been read, copied to thumb drives here and abroad to protect us all (Actually the complete file here is automatically copied so everyone comments are saved - 128Gb)

Everyone needs to stop!

First step that quite a few have forgotten. What type of trial was this? By Thai Judges... In Thailand!

Are the Suspects Thai? No they are as it stands (unless they are released) from Burma or if you want to correct me, Myammar.

Now are the Victims from Thailand? No they were both British Subjects!

So if they were tried in a Thai Court, by Thai Judges. This Court was bound to abide by International Law! Thus the trail was ordained in the normal Thai fashion, fashioned by the people who thought it would, like smoke... just disappear.

I don't think any of the evidence push through the Court, addressed International Requirements.

As the B2 being found the perpetrators in the case of Murder of both Victims... The Court being presented with the fact the presented Murder weapon being a "Hoe"... Yet their DNA was not found anywhere on it! What was found was Hannah's and that of two yet unnamed individuals! DNA here was classified by the Police as of no coincidence, so it was not introduced. Why because it would have help the presiding Justice's see a huge flaw. In fact David was not killed with it he was knocked unconscious, and either by the massive trauma's his head underwent (physical blows and punctures) then dropped in the surf possibly Drowned. Not once was the major trauma to his face... Sides of his head... Even disclosed in Court. Fact being this sounds being close to an inch deep each, everyone being identical, the massive blood that was loss here was major! How much flesh does a human have covering their scull?

Now you decide if International Law was followed here...

One last point to remind everyone... Yes the B2's DNA was charged to be on or in Hannah's body. What was presented in Court was " Here Say!" No evidence was every produced or presented!

It seems that the DNA that was collected, mixed with Hannah's was from 3 males! Not just 2... But the 3rd was conveniently omitted... Why? If the sperm found on a Victim is enough to convict individuals of Murder... Who is the 3rd Male? Plus just so you understand, Hannah was alive! When she had sex! This is proven by certain chemicals to be mixed with the boys DNA!

What it seems is that in Thailand you can be Sentenced to Death on "Only" someones word...

According to this report, phone records were checked in the prosecution documents case file, however it certainly makes no mention of Nomsods data being checked. Also how detailed those checks were is also up for speculation.

It chronicles the events leading up to the discovery of the bodies. The Report sets out in detail the steps taken by the RTP in investigating the crime and in pursuing suspects and leads. It provides an account of how evidence was collected such as the performance of mass DNA testing, the identification and retrieval of CCTV footag from across the island, and the retrieval and collation of cell phone data etc. https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/hq_15X0311_final.pdf

At the trial reference to Nomsod was mentioned but nothing about phone records:

The man Ms Witheridge was rumoured to have an altercation with at the bar was seen on CCTV in Bangkok later on the morning of September 15, and has denied having anything to do with the murders.

He gave DNA samples in front of reporters to try to quell rumours that he was involved.

But in court today the senior investigating officer said he had never received the results of those DNA tests, or indeed any documentation from Bangkok regarding any interview with the man. He said he had been promised a report but it never arrived. http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Maybe this will joggle your memory:

"HUH - I respect what you are saying but the fact that it was deemed necessary by the prosecution to state that Nomsod's phone records prove he was not on Koh Tao has resulted in a refueling of speculation."

If I remember correctly that piece of information came from a Tweet from Andy Hall, I'm not going to sift through all 30.000 or so of them for it.

Thank you for pointing me to a reply to one of my posts from Catsanddogs. The information she relayed to me could well have come from Andy but seeing as you cant be bothered to look for it we will never know. I also note when someone has referred to previous posts in previous topics you have labeled them as "stalkers"

Pot.........Kettle

Making a Google search for nomsod phone records site:thaivisa.com is not stalking, that your username comes up associated with it as the first hit is just deliciously ironic, seeing how you tried to pretend that I was making stuff up.

Some of the following are direct quotes from online article at : http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

on 17:22 23 July 2015 by Sarah Yuen in Thailand submitted to Eastern Daily Press in U.K.

"The defence has now been told to once again compile a full list of the evidence it wants to retest, which will be submitted to the police forensics department, asking for it to be handed over to the Ministry of Justice Forensics Institute in Bangkok. The trial adjourns tomorrow for almost a month. Andy Hall, the media spokesperson for the pro bono defence team, said: “I don’t think the court fully understood the testing process before, so when the police said the original samples had been used up, it believed there was nothing left to test. But the testimony of today’s witness has made it clear there would be conserved DNA residue, which could prove crucial to the suspects’ defense.”"

So it seems that the Defense was Dogged into believing that requesting a complete retest of all DNA was used and if a request for was submitted what was it going to be tested against... With no required logging of who handled... Where... When... Why ... and How there was the greatest possibility of something being altered! So I can understand why they submitted no such request!

"The senior police officer investigating the killing of Norfolk student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand said today that he had not investigated rumours that she had been involved in an argument with a Thai youth on the night of her death. Police Colonel Cherdpong Chiewpreecha said he was aware of rumours the 23-year-old from Hemsby had an altercation inside the AC Bar, while she was there with friends. But he said neither he, nor his officers, actively followed up that line of enquiry.

If she had an argument and it involved the subject of SEX and refused the advancement... It would have been a Major source of "Loss Of Face" if the Male was Thai. If the argument was in front of his friends.... "A more Serious Loss of Face!!"

"The senior investigating officer did insist there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar."

Of course there wasn't... No one saw David or Hannah leave either! Camera's not working or turned off for some reason...

"But the court was also told, of the 300 CCTV cameras in the area, 200 were not working, and only 22 captured any video images of the victims, and neither Ms Witheridge, nor fellow backpacker David Miller, 24, were seen alive again after entering the AC bar separately, between midnight and 2am, in the early hours of September 15 2014."

Funny they were seen entering... But after that not leaving...

"Their bodies were discovered hours later on a secluded part of the beach. Ms Witheridge is alleged to have been raped, and then murdered with a garden hoe."

The Rape is alleged only! Who can refute that they did not go swimming... The B2 were already swimming! the 4 could have met there and Hannah could have agreed to sex with the boys, They were probably a little more fun to be around and laughing joking.... Hannah could have agreed... If this was viewed by the participant of the earlier altercation that evening and his buddies... Extremely Deep onset of Loss Of Face would have been set in place! Now to rebut this in front of his friends he had to do something! Who is to say that after the B2 and Hannah parted company he confronted her and she laughed him off! He then used hoe to Murder her... They have the DNA (sperm) from the B2 proving they had sex with her, but from a Third Person also. Mixed in her sexual organ was the DNA from 3 males and hers. Who is the Third Male?? The DNA of the B2 was "NOT" found on the Hoe. Yet it is the murder weapon! What was found was Hannah's DNA and the DNA of two others persons... This was never followed up on.

Hannah was alive when intercourse was completed, we know this because her DNA fluids created by the acts of sex would have only been present if she was alive! The fact that there are no bruises in the areas prone to address these when Raped... tells us this or these acts were consensual!

"Their bodies were discovered hours later on a secluded part of the beach. Ms Witheridge is alleged to have been raped, and then murdered with a garden hoe.

Mr Miller is also alleged to have been hit with the hoe, and then left to drown in the sea."

David was hit on the top of the head with the handle of the Hoe. This did not kill him, it was used to subdue him. He was killed by the blunt force traumas to the facial, neck and sides of the head. the fist that was hitting him had an object attached to it that was puncturing everywhere he was hit with a serrated 1" deep v shaped wound... It has been said the punctures were like a single Sharks tooth was used. David did have bruising as being restrained as he was being pulverized, then as an insurance move after he collapsed in the water he was later hit on the top of the head, major loss of Blood came from the facial area traumas. Not from the top of his head... he was already dead!

"The police colonel admitted that CCTV footage of the port, which may have shown who boarded the early morning boat from Koh Tao to the mainland immediately after the deaths was never checked.

There was an audible gasp in the court when the police officer said his officers did not believe the killer would have taken that boat."

"The man Ms Witheridge was rumored to have an altercation with at the bar was seen on CCTV in Bangkok later on the morning of September 15, and has denied having anything to do with the murders.

He gave DNA samples in front of reporters to try to quell rumor's that he was involved.

But in court today the senior investigating officer said he had never received the results of those DNA tests, or indeed any documentation from Bangkok regarding any interview with the man. He said he had been promised a report but it never arrived."

Why? Who has it? Nomsod was mentioned in the trial, but not this deep! His DNA needs to be added to the DNA Profile File. Or is it going to change the direction the trial was going and insure others on Koh Tao would be involved. I believe the boys did not murder anyone! Have Sex... yes that is not a crime here in Thailand or a lot more people would be in Bangkok Hilton! Do they know something... most assuredly... "Yes" and that is probably why their items were left on the Beach. They ran for their lives, but came back later to get them. But said they were drunk earlier that evening to convince the real killers they saw nothing. Of course they heard the struggle, as did David that is why he exited the water and was killed...

So which is going to get you sentenced to death? Having Sex or using a Weapon???

It's not hearsay, and you know it as usual, it comes directly from the police. The police issued a quote saying that Mon and Nomsod were caught on CCTV and were definitely implicated in the crime. You cannot wish this fact away as it was quoted and released to the media by the police.

At best the B2 were involved in the crime with Mon and Nomsod, but Mon and Nomsod were definitely involved in the crime according to the police who had viewed the CCTV which filmed them at the crime scene.

The only speculation and hearsay is you trying to say that the CCTV is something completely different as to what Panya said it was, as it has never been released or presented at the trial.

I said months ago these pair were guilty of the murders.

Now they can rot away. Case closed the Thai Police did their job.

The lesson is don't get that pissed that you don't know what your doing.

Guilty of what and based on what ? Please explain

smedly:

you inserted the word injuries which is a deflection, no such word was mentioned, the dna has not been presented only a declaration that it matches B2, the rest of your post is your opinion exactly the same as mine

That one point alone would be enough to have the entire case tossed out of court (a court in a farang country). Even AleG can agree that hearsay is not solid evidence. Yet the entire DNA case put forth by RTP and prosecutors IS HEARSAY. They haven't been able to provide any actual samples. NOT A MODICUM, NOT A SWAB, NOTHING.

​THE ABOVE IS QUOTE TAKEN FRON AN EARLIER POST.... IT HAS BEEN ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPLETE THIS TASK AS IT SEEMS THE TEXT IS BEING BLOCKED IN A WAY TO FORCE ANY HELP TO THE DEFENSE OF THE B2!!!

What it is saying is: " The DNA has not been presented to the Court" The only thing relating to the DNA subject that has been presented was "a Declaration that it matched the DNA of the B2".

On the subject of taking a DNA sample... Anyone can hopefully wear surgical gloves, open a swab test kit and remove sealed swab with carrier to trap DNA on it... take swab and get sample, and return sample bag and seal it. Hopefully writing all reference data on label (so history knows path and date and Tech involved) and stick over sealed end of bag to eliminated any unauthorized opening of sample bag.

But this is not the result for the DNA test as some seem to think it is...

This sample needs to be sent to a lab that has been designated as in charge of doing test. Not lay around in some ones desk waiting for it to be requested, meanwhile being contaminated or altered. If it retained by staff and left in desk, Tech who took sample cannot prove it was DNA sample they sent...!

It takes 24 hours to isolate the DNA stem ladders, why? because 99.9% of all Human DNA is a match, if this is what the police lab got to match... Results are screwed!!! It is that .9% that needs to be Isolated!!! It takes 20-24hrs for this process, to insure no cross contamination of any of the Stems they have isolated, remember we need 16. Even then the results are not allowed to be classified as 100% as a positive match, that is Medically Impossible!!!

If I was a Prof. of Pathology or Doctor teaching at a Major Medical University in U.K. (This is an International Case...) or anywhere else if that mattered! What matters is the Oath I took that enables me to practice. As victims and those on trial, are not Thai Citizens!!! I would file a Law Suit against the RTP for faulty information being released, misdirecting the Courts in the direction of a Murder Trial and slandering the Degrees and Teaching Staff and University, ridiculing the profession of any Graduate who takes the Job as a Pathologist. As we try to teach "How a Pathologist or Doctor needs to be prepared for a case similar to this, what is Legally Required by, not State Law... Not the Law of any Country... But when a Murder is committed in a Foreign Country what is Required by International Law. Thus all these steps have been ridiculed...

Then you need to expand this when taking swab samples from a crime scene...

When it has come to light that there is a presence of more then one DNA in this case 3 plus the Victim! Now everything needs to have a trail (Who, What, When, Where and How... All need to be documented in sequence and by whom and what lab.

As it is required that each DNA sample be sent to a separate Lab!

See how big this has gotten just involving One DNA Sample? and... Not something that could be completed in some Island, Police backdoor lab!!!

The massive smoking gun you are talking about is the same evidence you want to believe doesn't exists.

Based on that evidence they were found guilty of murdering Hannah Witheridge and David Miller, which goes to prove, once again, that you can ignore reality but can't escape the consequences of ignoring reality.

But hey, give it a shot, why did the defense do nothing to contest your supposed non-existent evidence? You make it sound like it would had been a cakewalk to disprove it... they didn't touch it with a ten foot pole instead.

This is the misinformation that you've been banging on for months that I was talking about. Just like lucky11 continuingly posting half of a tweet, you have been posting this same misinformation about the DNA retesting for about 4 months. The reason the defense would not retest it has been explained at length in this thread already, the fact you choose to ignore the posts about it is exactly the same reason that lucky11 is ignoring the explanation about the half tweet. This is the level of you argument. You have no real argument so you rely on posting the same lies and misinformation over and over.

Why did the defense refuse to do the retest they asked for with such insistence?

All I have heard is speculation that the retest was to be made with material that was not original, and every single time I have asked for a cite to support that claim I have heard nothing but crickets.

What I do know is that at the time the defense changed their minds they gave the excuse that it was because the results would had been sent first to the police and then to them, and they didn't trust the police; as of late the story has changed and now they didn't want to do it because it would had been sent to the court directly.

So where are the lies and misinformation coming from then?

Were told there was no more of the original samples in existance!!!

So what were they going to retest against??? Defense knew it would not be against the original taken at the crime scene... Just against the original report... That was modified, scratched data being substituted with handwritten logic...

Possibly rewritten to match an agenda...??

Smartest thing they did was refuse to ask for a retest of the DNA!!!!

If people want to keep this thread going I suggest you join those of us who decided to ignore Lucky11 and the other shills some time ago. It is clear their intention is to close this down as previous shills (or them in previous identities) have managed before. Don't let them bait you. There clearly is no point in responding to them since you are never going to change their position.

There has been quite a few Forensic Pathologists who have tried to post "The way International Law" has mandated evidence be secured and what paperwork required, if paths not followed, then Evidence mandated as inadmissable. And must be ignored by the Courts. Here this was flat ignored! "This is Thailand, not an International Court...

Says the level of thinking... Saving face... Has no place in any Court of Law... Anywhere!!!

"He has organized campaigns to ruin businesses in Koh Tao"

And that really hits a raw nerve, doesn't it?

This!!

A lot of these guys who are happy with the verdict have vested interests in keeping the status quo the way is it on Koh Tao and not having the boat rocked.

So what if two young lads who had nothing to do with it go to prison and get the death penalty... As long as the money keeps rolling in...

Despicable people

Who is known to have and to wear a ring ordained as evidenced at the crime scene? Does not one of the boys from the Bar have one with a shark's tooth a fixed to it? One that he is known to brandished when bolstering a fight or scuffle?

Why was the massive trama's to David's face not discussed or brought into the defense of the defendants? Was it disallowed because it would force an equation into the trial which would force the focus of the court away from the predetermined path already planned by the Island Police and others from the Island??

What killed David? It was not the blow to he top of his head... Was it the massive traumas to the front and sides of his scull? If so then the intentionally inflicted punctures must be included, also the B2 could not have done this!

If those DNA tests failed so miserably, then why refused the defense to request to have them redone?

BECAUSE there was and there still is no way to know if the DNA is reliable, the chain of custody is what makes a test reliable, and I don't know if you ve heard, but the documents regarding the chain of custody are incomplete and have been modified by hand.

Why test a DNA that is possibly not even the DNA found on the victim (if there actually was any DNA found..)?

Plus the original samples are "used up" and all that is left is something whose origin (blood, hair, semen) can't be determined, so it could very well come from of the B2's hair taken after they were arrested for example.

In most courts, this evidence would have been dismissed because of the lack of proper documentation.

As the DNA is the only element taken into account to declare the B2 guilty and send them to their death, the defense will completely focus on that for the appeal and hopefully highlight how unreliable these results are.

Plus as was said, the DNA proves intercourse anyway, they failed to prove the murder without reasonable doubt.

Do you really believe these two short boys could kill two persons like that David being far stronger than them ?

And the element of surprise isn't even there as the victims DNA were on the hoe (not their blood, it actually was said they handled the hoe, and the B2's DNA wasn't on the hoe, but there was a third DNA, why the hell isn't the third DNA investigated?).

The appeal will be interesting, I really dont think the story will go away quietly, it has generated too much interest and too many questions are unanswered.

Apparently now having sex with someone will get you the death penalty if she dies, found dead and your DNA (sperm) is found in her body... Who is to say that the following is not a correct version of what really happen the night David and Hannah were found dead on the beach, Remember this scenario has about the same credibility as the Police version...; here goes....

Hannah was approached earlier that evening by a Male in the Bar. He was flat turned down, "Now I do not want sex with you!" In front of his friends this was a major play in the loss of "Face", as he was Thai! David and Hannah continue to Party she forgets about the proposal. They later exit to the Beach, Both having consumed their (close to..) limit in drinks. Both went for a swim... Hannah now is feeling sexy she consents to sex with two young men who they met while swimming.

Meanwhile her movement on the beach are being monitored and the earlier Gentleman who was caused a great loss in face (embarrassment) watches as she has sex with two young Burmese Lads.... this further enrages him as his friends are joking!

After the trio go their separate ways, he decides to teach Hannah a lesson and firm up his friends by what he is about to do. Also leave a message on the Beach. He traps Hannah who now laughs him off... He proceeds to strike he with a hoe he had carried down to the beach... she ends up Dead! So he places her in a position demeaning to her and to post a message as to not "" with him to anyone who stumbles onto Hannah's body. While he is doing this David hearing a commotion exits the water to investigate. He is apprehended by two or more of the Murderer's friends, One proceeds to strike David in the Face... with his fist! Something he was wearing is leaving stab wounds about a inch deep in David's face this item is serrated on both sides and comes to a triangular point. Finally as David collapses he is left in the water hoping the Tide will drag him out.

Okay, we are told that the B2 were convicted on the fact of the DNA that was found mixed in her body... For this to mix she had to be an active participant in the act of Intercourse, after she was dead the body function would no longer respond. So Intercourse is a crime, They did not convict the B2 for the use of the Hoe, Why? because their DNA was not on it, in fact a year latter it was pulled from Police lockup and tested by Thailand's Senior Pathologist Scientist, What she found was not a single trace of the DNA of the B2, what she found was DNA from 2 totally different males. This is why the Police just said... "We never tested Hoe". Is there anyone who can say they did? but results were not playing along with them, the boys were already off the Island so no way to get their DNA affixed to the Hoe... lets just try to forget it, they forgot it was in a protected environment and would retain any information attached to it!

Again the murder weapons, were demonstrated to be the Hoe and the object that had pierced David's face, David dying from blunt force trauma, as little blood exited the blow to the top of his head. The multiple piercing wounds to the Facial area could have severed nerves and nicked arteries the major bruising would have drawn blood in large quantities to this area. The B2's DNA was not found anywhere on the Hoe.... Also they did not have in their possession anything to make they stab wounds in David's face. Was David Gay? was Sperm found (DNA) on/in him?

So to now go back and look at what the Courts sentenced (convicted) the B2 of Murder on was the presence od DNA from the B2 found in Hannah's body. there is nothing to fix any of the other damage to her body or David's to them. Infact it was tried to be suppressed, and not brought up in Court. Maybe the Court had disallowed if from being introduced at all...

Further more it has always taken 24 hrs plus to extract DNA, a lot harder when it is mixed! 3 people plus Hannah's. One of the reasons is because all human DNA is 99.9% the same. It is that .1% that gives us the ladders that form each individual, this is EXTEMELY difficult to extract! Yet the Thai Police Forensic Lab was able to do this in Record time??? By passing all the set procedure's and getting required Confirmations... they were able to do this complete procedure in Record Time! 12 Hours!!! Yet we were earlier informed that their Lab had issues, and the still came up with a 100% perfect match!!!

This is Impossible! Finding a probable match is just that! PROBABLE!!! It is impossible to get a Perfect Match! This is a confirmed result by the most extense Hospitals and Labs in the World!

Yet they were convicted... Because they had sex... If Hannah had went swimming and Pee'd would they still be sentenced to Death, Salt water would have cleaned her to hospital standards... Would they have still found that 3rd DNA mixed with Hanna's??

Yet they were convicted

You should apply for a job as movie or novel writer, especially the fictitious genre

As I stated at the beginning this was a... "What If..." In The World Medical Community about the same level as was presented to the Courts....

That's a Fact.... I was not the only one here to input some digressed Thoughts...

Think about it long and hard!

So sorry the accounts fail to meet your exacting international standards, its a real shame the DNA testing and evidence presentation also in the opinion of many that were at the trial failed the same test miserably.

If those DNA tests failed so miserably, then why refused the defense to request to have them redone?

BECAUSE there was and there still is no way to know if the DNA is reliable, the chain of custody is what makes a test reliable, and I don't know if you ve heard, but the documents regarding the chain of custody are incomplete and have been modified by hand.

Why test a DNA that is possibly not even the DNA found on the victim (if there actually was any DNA found..)?

Plus the original samples are "used up" and all that is left is something whose origin (blood, hair, semen) can't be determined, so it could very well come from of the B2's hair taken after they were arrested for example.

In most courts, this evidence would have been dismissed because of the lack of proper documentation.

As the DNA is the only element taken into account to declare the B2 guilty and send them to their death, the defense will completely focus on that for the appeal and hopefully highlight how unreliable these results are.

Plus as was said, the DNA proves intercourse anyway, they failed to prove the murder without reasonable doubt.

Do you really believe these two short boys could kill two persons like that David being far stronger than them ?

And the element of surprise isn't even there as the victims DNA were on the hoe (not their blood, it actually was said they handled the hoe, and the B2's DNA wasn't on the hoe, but there was a third DNA, why the hell isn't the third DNA investigated?).

The appeal will be interesting, I really dont think the story will go away quietly, it has generated too much interest and too many questions are unanswered.

Apparently now having sex with someone will get you the death penalty if she dies, found dead and your DNA (sperm) is found in her body... Who is to say that the following is not a correct version of what really happen the night David and Hannah were found dead on the beach, Remember this scenario has about the same credibility as the Police version...; here goes....

Hannah was approached earlier that evening by a Male in the Bar. He was flat turned down, "Now I do not want sex with you!" In front of his friends this was a major play in the loss of "Face", as he was Thai! David and Hannah continue to Party she forgets about the proposal. They later exit to the Beach, Both having consumed their (close to..) limit in drinks. Both went for a swim... Hannah now is feeling sexy she consents to sex with two young men who they met while swimming.

Meanwhile her movement on the beach are being monitored and the earlier Gentleman who was caused a great loss in face (embarrassment) watches as she has sex with two young Burmese Lads.... this further enrages him as his friends are joking!

After the trio go their separate ways, he decides to teach Hannah a lesson and firm up his friends by what he is about to do. Also leave a message on the Beach. He traps Hannah who now laughs him off... He proceeds to strike he with a hoe he had carried down to the beach... she ends up Dead! So he places her in a position demeaning to her and to post a message as to not "" with him to anyone who stumbles onto Hannah's body. While he is doing this David hearing a commotion exits the water to investigate. He is apprehended by two or more of the Murderer's friends, One proceeds to strike David in the Face... with his fist! Something he was wearing is leaving stab wounds about a inch deep in David's face this item is serrated on both sides and comes to a triangular point. Finally as David collapses he is left in the water hoping the Tide will drag him out.

Okay, we are told that the B2 were convicted on the fact of the DNA that was found mixed in her body... For this to mix she had to be an active participant in the act of Intercourse, after she was dead the body function would no longer respond. So Intercourse is a crime, They did not convict the B2 for the use of the Hoe, Why? because their DNA was not on it, in fact a year latter it was pulled from Police lockup and tested by Thailand's Senior Pathologist Scientist, What she found was not a single trace of the DNA of the B2, what she found was DNA from 2 totally different males. This is why the Police just said... "We never tested Hoe". Is there anyone who can say they did? but results were not playing along with them, the boys were already off the Island so no way to get their DNA affixed to the Hoe... lets just try to forget it, they forgot it was in a protected environment and would retain any information attached to it!

Again the murder weapons, were demonstrated to be the Hoe and the object that had pierced David's face, David dying from blunt force trauma, as little blood exited the blow to the top of his head. The multiple piercing wounds to the Facial area could have severed nerves and nicked arteries the major bruising would have drawn blood in large quantities to this area. The B2's DNA was not found anywhere on the Hoe.... Also they did not have in their possession anything to make they stab wounds in David's face. Was David Gay? was Sperm found (DNA) on/in him?

So to now go back and look at what the Courts sentenced (convicted) the B2 of Murder on was the presence od DNA from the B2 found in Hannah's body. there is nothing to fix any of the other damage to her body or David's to them. Infact it was tried to be suppressed, and not brought up in Court. Maybe the Court had disallowed if from being introduced at all...

Further more it has always taken 24 hrs plus to extract DNA, a lot harder when it is mixed! 3 people plus Hannah's. One of the reasons is because all human DNA is 99.9% the same. It is that .1% that gives us the ladders that form each individual, this is EXTEMELY difficult to extract! Yet the Thai Police Forensic Lab was able to do this in Record time??? By passing all the set procedure's and getting required Confirmations... they were able to do this complete procedure in Record Time! 12 Hours!!! Yet we were earlier informed that their Lab had issues, and the still came up with a 100% perfect match!!!

This is Impossible! Finding a probable match is just that! PROBABLE!!! It is impossible to get a Perfect Match! This is a confirmed result by the most extense Hospitals and Labs in the World!

Yet they were convicted... Because they had sex... If Hannah had went swimming and Pee'd would they still be sentenced to Death, Salt water would have cleaned her to hospital standards... Would they have still found that 3rd DNA mixed with Hanna's??

Yet they were convicted