JoeLing

I've been following this from the very beginning and what I am sick of is the constant RTP bashing in this thread, and others like these.

It seems from reading peoples comments that they have years of law enforcement experience & consider themselves to be Sherlock Holmes. If you bashers think you can do a decent job then why don't you get yourself to Koh Tao and lend them a hand?

As someone who has experience in law enforcement I can tell you, investigating a murder and gathering evidence to show to the court is not easy.

How can you preserve evidence on a beach as best you can without compromising it when the sea can wash away vital bits?

How are you going to identify witnesses if none are willing to come forward?

The murder didn't occur directly underneath a CCTV camera, so how are you going to know how many suspects you're looking for or what they look like?

How are you going to lock down an island with many entry/exit points with a limited amount of officers?

What tasks are you going to prioritise when you used your finite amount of officers, and your nearest back up is 2 hours away with the sea in between?

People have been saying it's a Thai, Burmese, influential person who committed the murder. I ask you where is your evidence to support your theory? Gut feelings and hearsay don't hold up in a court of law I'm afraid.

Oh and not all Thai police officers are corrupt, so why tar them with the same brush? You guys won't like it if people say retired Farang men only come to Thailand to marry young Thai women would you?

My grandfather did not die in the line of duty on a drug raid just to be labeled bent.

Rant over …

It seems like the only real evidential lead is the seaman. Finding the match can takes hours to years, it's unfortunately just a waiting game now.

So as a [semi]-expert, how many police officers do YOU suggest are necessary to secure

a crime scene about 10 X 50 meters for the first 2 hours until reinforcement come from the

mainland? Looking at some of the pictures, two days later, seems to me even 20 police

officers didn't manage to secure that site. Now would you suggest that's good police work?

You suggest, the first reinforcement would take at least 2 hours to get from Koh Phangan to

Koh Tao. Be assured, they do have some real fancy speedboats and are not rowing 20 miles

by Kayak. Took me with my small nutshell just about 35 minutes from Tongsala to Maehaad.

OK, now lets assume, the boat was not ready and had to be refueled first, the police in Samui

and Surat Thani had a 2 hours briefing and it might have taken even 10 hours to get here, it

still took those highly trained police officers you defend so vigorously, more than 48 hours to

converge on the island to finally search for clues, although the crime scene was still not secured.

Even the FBI would have been able to take samples of evidence, coming all the way from the

USA, in less than 48 hours.

As you rightly say, not all police is corrupt but police take orders and do what they are told

to do by their superiors. Nothing more [well, at least not officially], nothing less.

Now you ask, where is the evidence to support the theory it could have been a Thai, a Burmese

or influential person who committed that crime. Maybe the DNA taken from the victims? Well,

as you said and I'm sure, your grandad must have told you too, most crime investigations start

with a theory which will need to be proven with evidence which of course will take some time.

So you too, be patient and wait till the evidence has been sorted through and if the different

theories people came up with prove to be wrong and it was a foreigner with mongoloid DNA

as example, then rant again.

BANGKOK —Thailand’s new police chief has brushed off media reports that there is "mafia" network on the resort island in Southern Thailand where two British tourists were murdered last week.

He must have a different definition of "Mafia" to the rest of Thailand.

And Thailand has a different definition of mafia to the rest of the world. Why does everyone continue to refer to this loosely organized group/gang that lacks true organization, structure and code as mafia? Italian, Russian, Albanian, Triad, Yakuza, Mexican...This is mafia.

It is not loosely organized.It may be loosely connected, but it is rigidly organized. It walks the very halls of society.

Definitely NOT loosely connected but connected by blood which we

all know, is stronger than water! So pretty sure, the son would never

ever stitch up his father or uncle.

Crime - who cares

Corruption - who cares

Unemployment - who cares

Inflation - who cares

Healthcare - who cares

Education - who cares

But overpriced lottery tickets is an absolute disgrace .

Strange that the reporter would mention overpriced lottery tickets, that will be way down on the PM's priority list. I wonder were the lottery funding goes to, straight into he government or do they use it for worthy causes ?

Of course it goes to "worthy causes"

Happiness is priceless and #1 priority

For everything else, there is:

Suppose the problem with overpriced lottery tickets would easily be solved.

Half the lottery ticket price and everyone in the kingdom would notice
Quarter the payouts, no one would ever realise as no one ever wins BIG prices anyway.

Kill two flies at once; People are happy, government coffers are happy.
Everyone happy

I agree with that. do you think of Koh Tao as extremely dangerous and not a place one should visit?

No, but when you go to the rock, you should be very much aware about things are run there. It's not as many other places in this country. Koh Tao is one of the places where families are running the show (mafia), where many other places it's "another organization".

But anywhere in this country, you have to be careful to get into conflicts with the locals, and specially at Koh Tao where the chance are that the conflict would be with member of "the family".

Edit: However, i rather avoid that place, because i know going there, you cannot avoid supporting such family, because they got their fingers into more or less everything. I would rather go and support "another organization" who might be corrupted too, but not quite as nasty.

"Koh Tao is one of the places where families are running the show (mafia), where many other places it's "another organization".

Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to the difference between the "mafia" running the show on Koh Tao and the "mafias" running the shows on Koh Phangan, Koh Samui, Phuket, Pattaya etc or are they "another organization"?.

Are these folks in competition or is there happy mutual co-operation between them when it comes to handling the 'tourists'? I am sure the godfather on Koh Tao talks to the godfather on Samui or is that not the way things work down in The Paradise Islands?

Somehow, I don't think there's a big enough carpet down there under which to sweep this story.

Don't know about Phuket, Pattaya or Samui but I'm convinced, just as the Chief of police said,

if there would be mafia on the island, the police would know.

Sure the local families would not allow outside mafia to interfere in their lucrative businesses.

Someone even suggested, this islands are lawless places but far from it, there are laws, just

not the same as on the mainland. Suppose, as long as there was just one boat a day and the

island community lived of coconuts and fishing, that was no problem.

But times have changed, today, the majority of the island population moved here from outside.

Be it Thais from the mainland, Burmese or foreigners and with it came money, greed, police

and crime, all profiting from this life away from authority.

So hopefully, this General from the north has no consideration for some islanders in the south

and their politics. Sure would be at the time, someone sends a big warning shot to wake up

some superior families who still believe: "What's happen on the island, stays on the island".

Just saw on Australian media that tourists are leaving Thailand in droves. Tourists are actually scarred

Yknow Chooka I wouldnt blame the British press if they set out on a boycott Thailand campaign. It would be justified the way this has been stonewalled until its become impossible to cover up .. and they only reason .. I think the International press and community for this, nothing of credit do I give to the Thai authorities... nothing.

If I were a Brit tourist id be leaving too... Why ? not because of fear but because Its the only way to show my disgust over the whole thing.

I Hope the international press start to look a lot harder into other past cases and push them back up to the surface .. theres a lot of unsolved cases and families that still need closure... you can bet 50% at least are cover ups...

European tourism needs a boost, enough really great holiday places across Europe with far more culture, architecture, great food, beaches and all that good stuff.

Just watch out for the "Taxi Mafia" in London, Paris, Rome, Madrid .....

Just saw on Australian media that tourists are leaving Thailand in droves. Tourists are actually scarred

That would not be good, Thailand's image at present is pretty poor. There are however plenty of lovely places in Thailand that are a world away from lawless crap holes like KT.

I was chatting with a friend in the old home town the other night. There was a big fight between some tuk tuk drivers and a couple of tourists last weekend.

Over what, god knows, but the tourists got a damn good shoeing apparenlty. So, there is barely anywhere that is immune from this stuff. I helped a Brit who was given a massive kicking outside his house near Ubon about 4 years ago, and witnessed a foreigner get a huge kicking during the Chiangmai 6s a few years back. These problems are everywhere.

Yup. English teacher near my place was near beaten to death, hip and skull smashed, spent three months in hospital in Bangkok. Beaten by taxi drivers in BKK.

Maybe General Prayuth and the appropriate authorities should introduce

a law giving higher punishments to crimes against tourists/farangs, similar

to crimes committed at night but if no bail possible.

That might make some people think twice how to behave and sure would

have a positive impact on tourism and show the world, Tourists ARE safe.

One tourist murder suspect now arrested, another on the run

............

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

............

Guess the missing word.

... gone ...

... run ...

... fleed ...

... moved ...

Guess I already covered this subject a few days ago

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=18&t=762739&qpid=8426371

Nothing more I would have to add to it

I have been following this with great interest for the last week , is anyone able to confirm that the man on the left of SM 's 7/11 picture

is the same man seen hanging around with the police at the crime scene on day one ?

And , is there any truth in the statement that two men in SM's 7/11 picture refused to be DNA tested .

Refusing a DNA test doesn't indicate guilt.

Would you want the bib to have a sample of your dna?

It certainly doesn't indicate innocence either.

I think it's called civil liberty

'

Thailand - Martial Law - Civil Liberties

Hmmmm ..... Double plus

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Posted 13 minutes ago

webfact, on 16 Sept 2014 - 08:55, said:

CRIME

Koh Tao 'sealed off' after two tourists brutally killed

THE NATION, AFP

Gruesome murders of British pair on island paradise shock locals and visitors

BANGKOK: -- POLICE have sealed off the resort island of Koh Tao off Surat Thani province to hunt down killers who brutally murdered a British couple and possibly raped the woman on Sunday night. The 24-year-old victims have been identified as Hannah Witheridge and David Miller.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa....itish-tourists/

this person in the black t shirt looks the same person put on the facebook pages and another newspaper we cant quote . this is dated 16 sept 14

StealthEnergiser You are correct!

Thailand was not at all serious about arresting any Thai citizens connected to this. It was the brave heart "Sean McAnna" who posted the Facebook 7-11 shop picture while hiding in the shop for this life gave a proper message and attention to the world. Now Thailand is forced to take action on own citizens now. The next step will be, they will appoint a lousy Thai lawyer who don't show any interest to convict or prove, and accused will deny going for DNA test. Then later they will announce there is not enough evidence to prove until and unless of Scotland Yoad, or FBI rope in for investigation or until if most countries give warning as Thailand bad destination for holidays. Let us hope the two young British youths will justice from Thailand.

If this guy is actually guilty, cops who let him near the crime area should be investigated as well....

Can't do. I'm sure that would open up a whole new can of worms.

Andy Lines ‏@andylines 12 Min.

Police have just been granted permission to search a bar on Sairee Beach. It's nine DAYS on but ...

But beaches are public property, so......

So......

So what?

Are you implying a beach is the same as a bar?

Koh Tao is home to a bunch of backwoods coconut farmers who think they can get away with murder. They need to put this thing to an end NOW!

Just because I have someone to keep my toilet clean,

doesn't mean he owns the s**thole. Think about!

seems perfectly sane to me

<Picture 1>

Glad to see he had time to have his hair cut before leaving the island

<Picture 2>

About a year i recon?

How many 7/11 workers could you borrow a phone from that have INTERNATIONAL call availability, to call your mum and sister?

BS - He's lying.

How many 7/11 workers do you know that have enough credit to call International numbers?

Even my own wife rarely has anymore then 200-300 baht credit on her phone, and I don't tend to have much more in mine either when I'm at home.

If you dial 006 it costs 3 baht a minute to a landline. . Hmm even on 100 Baht you could speak for more than 30 minutes. Also he was in a shop that may sell top ups. So from this you assume he is lying. Good work Sherlock! Glad you aren't running this investigation.

More and more funny by the minute!!

So this guy is running for his life with the bloodthirsty Thai mafia hot on his heels. Runs to a convenience story, buys a top up, takes a pic of the mafiaguys, connects to his FB account and post the pics. During all this time the "mafia" is patiently waiting outside for the police to arrive an hour later!!

Biggest give-away is the claim, that they threatened to kill him by hanging?? Anyone a little familar with Thai ways, would know a threat of a knife or a gun, absolutely yes. But hanging, never ever!!

.

You might be right for Phuket or Pattaya but here on the islands, we don't have any highrise buildings ....

BTW - I read not that long ago a statistic, hanging is Thai's favorite way of suicide.

I assume you'e on a 1 year Non B.

I would suggest, make a border run at least 2 days before your current

1 year Non B expires (not necessarily your current 90 permission to stay)
and when you re-enter you should get an other 3 months, effectively making
your 1 year visa worth 15 months.

The reason I suggest to leave 2 days earlier, on my last border run to Sadao
last week, I was told by that big, fat controller there, I can't re-enter on the
same day (if you do I shoot you was his comment). Might have something
to do that due to transport problems I only got to the border early, early in
the morning after my expiry date

Unlike the previous prime minister who spoke broken English, Prayuth decided last
week that he will converse only in Thai and use an interpreter from the Foreign Ministry.

Is this drama ever going to end in an arrest and conviction police are looking for anyone who will confess and now a gangster he should be easy to find as I am sure police would have been involved with him if he was a gangster, so it will be case closed in the next couple of days.

If there is any truth to this, the NCPO should have no trouble sending a squad of soldiers to arrest the gangster, even if local police are too scared. They have even arrested the former major of Patong and his son, who must be far more influential and wealthy than gangsters operating on Koh Tao. Police involvement in the crime is also a possibility that could explain the lack of progress in the investigation but plain incompetence is more likely.

Well not sure if I can compare arresting a Major and his son (things will change for a while

but someone else will fill the "gap") with arresting entire family clans of a couple of islands.

Now don't think those clans are just a few local fisherman or coconut farmers. They mostly

​are very successful and educated business men, not stupid or crooks and are sure very

much aware of the implications if this doesn't get sorted in a way or another. Islanders all

over the world have since generations sorted out their own "problems" and got away with

it as long it didn't involve the outside, they been left alone, see Sicily or Corsica.

Same applies to some of the small, more secluded beaches with their own "governor". Even

disputes "who is the boss" will be settled within their "seclusion" and nothing will be known

10 miles away.

IF and I don't suggest it is, there is some island "family" involvement, every family would be

involved by now and most likely be a silent wall to the "outsiders". Even if they might find a

"scape goat" to satisfy "outsiders" I'm fairly sure the culprits IF local, will NOT get away with

it. Too much at stake and not just money. Lets say a bit like "same, same" as Cosa Nostra

but "different". Not at all same as BKK, Phuket, Pattaya or even the bigger sister island Koh

Samui, which is much more close and "connected" with the mainland.

I wonder if the various "western" embassies are getting fed up with the number of their countrymen that get picked up in the streets with almost the exact same story every time. "Oh, my wallet/passport/plane tickets were stolen weeks ago and I never bothered to report it". Or the ever popular "A Thai girl tricked me out of my wallet/passport/plane ticket/life savings months ago and I never bothered to report it."

Usually followed by the classic "I don't have any money for a plane ticket back to my home country, and don't have any family or friends who can send me money" line.

Seriously. These stories are mostly bull. If you get robbed/tricked/swindled out of your (passport/wallet/plane ticket) you go to the police immediately, followed by a trip to your local embassy. Then maybe there's a chance that the police will be able to recover your stuff. Your embassy can cancel your passport and issue emergency travel documents and help contact friends/family back home if need be.

But of course, if you've cashed in your return air ticket, sold/pawned your passport and basically boozed and whored your way into being homeless and begging on the streets, you probably aren't eager for everyone to learn that, nor will you gain any sympathy for your plight. Now basically you're up "that" creek and your only hope is the same pity story that others before you have used over and over and over and over again.

The few I've met over the years that were pretty much at that point had burned so many bridges back home (and in Thailand) that nobody in the world was going to lend them a penny any more. One UK guy finally told his family that his liver was failing so that they would send him plane fare and he could get home and use the NHS (or whatever you Brits call your healthcare service). A year later I found out he'd managed to scrape enough money together to fly back to Thailand and continue where he'd left off.

Another guy would go home when the money ran out, get on Welfare (the "dole"), get a job for a couple weeks, get a bank loan and credit card, then max out everything and skip the country. He told me that when he ran out of money he'd hit the family up for plane fare, go home, declare bankruptcy and then do it all over again. Yet another guy would borrow money from one friend, then later borrow even more from another and use part of that to pay back the first guy. Then borrow even more from someone else and use part of that to pay the second guy back. Eventually they wised up to it (especially as many of them were all in the same social group). When the money well dried up the guy left (either to a new place or a different set of friends).

Another guy (I used to work with actually) blew through all his money, got another short contract, blew through all that money and ended up moving to a village in Isaan where he could live off his pension and whatever money his elderly mother can send him from her old age pensions. Without that he'd probably have ended up broke and homeless as well.

All of them are one short binge away from finding themselves begging on the street and no doubt if the police nab them, they'll all come up with a similar story.

I'd bet that if the police were to do a crack down and raid a bunch of the pawn shops in the touristy areas (Phuket/Pattaya/Bangkok) they'd probably find all sorts of "lost/stolen" passports. Similarly, if they check with the airlines they'd find that quite a few of those "lost/stolen" return tickets had in fact been cancelled/chased in by the same person that originally purchased them. I bet a lot of credit cards were miraculously maxed out through cash advances just before being "lost/stolen" as well.

I guess for a lot of people, being broke, homeless and begging on the streets of sunny, warm Thailand beats being in the same situation back in cold, wet, miserable (wherever).

Yeap, spot on. I just wanted to add another scenario, failed businesses, family but I think

you just covered the majority already, no real need to add anymore.

I just hope I will never fall into any of those groups as I know, how easy and quick that can

happen. To anyone, anywhere.

Yet another press release.......this is investigation/trial by media and just serves to give an even stronger impression of how little the police seem to know about conducting an investigation of this nature

Well sometimes police press releases do serve a useful purpose.

LONDON — British police apologized Wednesday for using a stun gun to subdue a blind stroke victim they wrongly thought was carrying a samurai sword, a bizarre case of mistaken identity that left the man fearing for his life.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/uk-police-stun-gun-blind-man_n_1973635.html

Speaking of stronger perceptions of ineptitude, the Brits are miles ahead of Thai police and probably have a whole department solely for alerting the public to their latest cockup.

.

Now to be honest, who cares if in the UK, USA or wherever it's better or worse than Thailand?

If I'd care what's going on in those countries, I would praise or blame the system in a local

forum but, I live here in Thailand with all it's good and bad sides, that's why I joined an ex-pat

forum in Thailand to discussions about the good and the bad sides of the place I live in.

Enough problems and s##t is going on here in Thailand, so absolute not interested how good

or bad things are in the western world, what the Arabs do or if a Name sounds British, French

or whatever. I lived there, made a picture of it and that's good enough.

So instead of bickering around here on TV, the "Thai Bashers" could post in their own country's

forums, sure there are plenty of them. Warn and save some potential victims of what ever there

is so bad in Thailand.

As for the "Thai Basher Police" they too, could post in their own countries forums and tell people

how beautiful this country is. TAT sure would appreciate a bit of free advertising.

Now the grammar police, well suppose they are just teachers who can't stop lecturing everyone

and show how intelligent they are. I was married once to one ....

....

This is the generals moment .

He can become "internationally credible " If he has the stomach to crucify the criminals" not literally , but figuratively tough….

Even if protected - arrest them…..

If he transcends the red tape and give "US westerners "" our justice he will indeed be able to deem himself "an arrival on the world stage""

But execution is very necessary to heal these deep wounds ….

You can become very believable if you arrest and kill these bastards

Fully agree, nice tactic. Say something then retract it .Then say something else, retract it again.

Make that a few weeks and people will not know what was said and what not. Soon, soon

people lose interest, the case could quietly be adjusted to ???? and once a culprit is found

everyone is just happy the case is closed.

Although I am entirely against capital punishment. I agree with you. Some serious, broadcasted

trials with international observers would demonstrate the international community how serious

the government is in combating corruption and restoring safety to the country for everyone here.

Although the executions would immediately cause international condemnation, Thai people would

maybe take notice and realise very quickly - a new Daddy is in town. A smack on the fingers,

a wai, mai pen arai and goodbye doesn't work anymore.

Now I wonder, why has a company in Singapore made the DNA testing and not the FBI?

Could it be, that "private" labor tests are easier to lose than if the FBI would have samples?

I hope people don't suddenly think there could be some very, very powerful people with some

real spoiled kids here on the island under the protection of even bigger friends higher up

tampering with evidence? Don't think things like that couldn't happen, now could they?

British embassy could learn something from their German counterparts. Naa?

"As a gentleman, I take responsibility for my words and actions. I apologise to you all," he said.

Apologies accepted Mr. Prayuth, anyone makes mistakes, Naa?

As for taking responsibilities; I'm ​looking forwards to be reimbursed for

the 20% loss in income since you started with your words and actions.

Thanks in advance

Me, my partners and my staff