JoeLing

Thong Nai Pan Yai would be my choice.

You must be an early riser

If one prefers Sun and Moon rise, then Tong Nai Pan might be just right.

Bottle Beach looks nice on photographs but is pretty much over priced and over rated.

No sunrise, no sunset and eating out options are very limited and expensive.

I prefer any beach on the west side of Koh Phangan, anywhere north of Tongsala.

Nothing beats beach, palmtrees, hammock, pinacolada and sunsets

My favourite beaches on Koh Phangan are:

1. Haad Khom, the last, relative unspoiled beach on KPG

(well, not quite anymore since the concret road was build 4 yars ago but still nice)

2. Haad Chao Pao (relative quiet and stil possible to go swim at low tide)

3. Chaloklum Beach (the most westerly side)

4. Haad Yao

PIPA - for you I would suggest Chaloklum.

Probably the nicest and friendliest village on the island.

(Not just a Tourist Place - but plenty of Thai and Burmese people)

Some of the best restaurants are in Chaloklum with plenty of cheap Thai food

options. Chaloklum has a pretty nice "farang" community too and it will not be

long until you find like minded people there.

No need for motorbike as anything is just within a few minutes walking distance.

Good luck PIPA - wish you amazing, happy holidays

Maybe time the "RED" Cross in Thailand changed their name?
Blue Swastika springs in mind? ;-)

My impression is there will be a huge turnout on the 13th. So huge that tv footage will show enough to deny any government/CAPO propaganda beyond all doubt.

Don't worry government/CAPO are very good in fooling people especially the northern audiences. They have years of experience of doing so! Money can make the world go round

You're probably right, yet the massive support against the amnesty bill gives hope that the people in the north will start seeing some more of the nature of the beast.

The support is so massive, why is Suthep so afraid to go into a sure win election?

I believe that although the majority supports the removal of the Thaksin Regime(s),

Suthep's supporters are minimal. Not enough to win an election.

Why are so many foreigners backing Suthep?
Why are so many foreigners backing Thaksin?

If the question is:
"How many foreigners are backing any politician in Thailand?"
Then shouldn't the next question be:
"How much have those Politicians received in bribes and payments
from those "farang backers" for their cause"

I personally think there are hardly ANY farang supporting anyone in Thai politics.
Maybe, maybe foreign governments, companies and institutions might spend millions
of baht supporting politicians cause but ordinary "farang", I doubt it.

Just because some farang might agree a bit more with one or with the other
ones policy, doesn't mean they are hypocrites or even supporters of any of them.
Philosophising, talking, waffling and airing ones view is far, far away from backing
or supporting anyone.

After last weeks lies and with Thaksin's cousin as head who can trust CAPO?

Dearest Mr HiSoLowSoNoSo,

you can't be living long enough in the Land of Amazingness,

otherwise you would know,

Thai people NEVER lie, they where just joking.

Thai people NEVER steal, they where just borrowing.

After investigating the investigators, they found out that it was actually
NOT a police officer who got shot by a gun from a high ground in Bangkok
but a farang committing suicide jumping from high ground in Pattaya

I'm not really sure, why do people always quote the US or Britain in discussions about democracies?

From my understanding, the US has never been a true, real democracy but a "Representative Republic"

which is probably the next best thing to a democracy. ..........

Sorry, forgot to mention, in the US, The State of California is supposed to be a direct democracy.

IMHO.........Thais are not yet mature or disciplined enough for a true democracy and they are better off with a 'strongman' as their leader. Yeah, there was a lot of collateral damage with the last strongman that they ousted, but compare that damage with the opposition's ongoing disruptions....................But, what do I know, I'm just another stupid falang that shouldn't be involved in Thai politics.

What is true democracy anyway? Do you think america is more mature in terms of democracy when there is a large amount of rich bussiness men taking a lot of benefit from agricultural subsidy in the US? What the difference between thai government paying for the rice from thai farmer more than its worth and the agricultural subsidy program? Why are there so many people in the US think gasoline is too expensive and why doesn't the government do something about it?

The problem is not about disciplined or mature but basic knowledge in economy and democracy. If you wanna talk about discipline, I'm willing to bet there are ten of thousands of Thai kids who are more discipline than you are.

I'm not really sure, why do people always quote the US or Britain in discussions about democracies?

From my understanding, the US has never been a true, real democracy but a "Representative Republic"

which is probably the next best thing to a democracy.

In the US or the UK (and many other "democracies") they practice an indirect democracy. That means

they vote to decide which people get to decide what the government should do. Those countries usually

have a President or Prime Minister in charge with or without veto rights. In some of those countries people

choose their leaders directly, in others, they are chosen by political entities the people voted for. In those

countries it's the government who decides if you can vote on changes in the law or if you can have a

referendum to change the constitution.

Whilst in Switzerland, an ALMOST perfect democracy for over 800 years, probably the only and oldest

direct democracy in the world, it's the people who vote and decide what the government should do. There

is no President, no Prime Minister, no Generals (apart during war) just a "Speaker of the Assembly" of the

Federation of Switzerland and the right to a veto stands with the people not a President, PM or Political

Party in power. It's the people who decide if there should be changes in the laws or amendments to the

constitution governing the country

No riots, no disruption to airports or tourism. No burning or shutting down of the Capital necessary to have

changes and if something get's changed eventually, those things will last for ever. (Just check some of the

public transport's timetables in the Land of the Swiss. Some are nearly 100 years old and still valid, still in time).

I'm utterly sure, if democracy wouldn't work as so many people claim, Switzerland wouldn't be as prosperous,

stable and secure as they are.

Now the only reason I can see why a democracy wouldn't work, is that people are just not mature enough

to govern and decide for themselves in a social, responsible way.

.... Why are there so many people in the US think gasoline is too expensive ......

Maybe because they never been to Europe and experienced how

expensive gasoline is, if it's NOT subsidised by the government?

Say millions do arrive.

Where are they going to live?

Is there not a housing crisis in the UK due to the lowest house building output for decades?

There's not even sufficient 'accommodation'.

No worries, Milton Keynes 2 on Dartmoor, MK 3 on Exmoor and MK4 in the lake district will take care of

a million. Maybe one more somewhere in Lincolnshire to welcome all those millions of immigrants. Maybe

somewhere around Boston just to give it a bit of a historical flair. That would even stimulate the economy,

create new jobs and those "foreign invaders" wouldn't need to queue in front of us in the benefits offices.

So you are not in favour of National Parks then?

Nothing against National Parks, maybe we could relocate them to Bulgaria?

Hmmm, just wonder, what are property prices in Bulgaria?

Suppose once every one has left for Russia or the UK, I'll just grab it.

Might get a nice mansion by the Black Sea, build a huge casino and

retirement homes for disgruntled G13 citizens.

Anyone interested in investing? Please contact my Nigerian agent, he

conveniently moved to Regency Street with his Ghanes financial advisor.

Joeling apparently all you have to do is claim Bulgarian ancestry, and you can get a Bulgarian Passport, I hear it is excellent for swatting flies

Ps: i already contacted your Nigerian agent, actually he contacted me, and as it turns out , there was a tragedy in his family and his brother the president of the republic was arrested, and he need to get his money out of the con try, I already send him my bank account and routing number, and as soon as his funds are deposited in my account we will be investing in your venture.

Excellent for swatting flies ?

Perfect, just perfect. Will call the place "Little Australia" maybe abrevate it to "Bend Ower", Briths will love it.

Now I'm very sorry about our little family problems but nothing to worry about.

but don't blame them, blame the employers who pay less to those foreigners because

they are convenient, cheap and are not organised.

Not the immigrants fault. We just use them to fill our empty spaces and as cheap

labourers and when things go wrong in our countries, we feel very nationalistic,

we want them all out. We will even point our fingers at people who have foreign

sounding names or looks but have our nationality.

I believe it's not just a British syndrome but all over our "developed" world.

Everywhere a little bit different but same-same.

I never blame them, I blame the government 100%. It is what they want, to make the uk more competitive with the rest of the world, but as a result life is getting harder for working class Brits and the rich get richer.

I have to agree with Bockcoy

You cant blame the immigrants they are doing the best they can, and you cant blame the employers, If the government allowed it,or turns a blind eye to it, and your competition is using it, then you have no choose than to use it your self also, or become uncompetitive and perish.

But the issue in this Thread and the OP is not illegal immigration but legal immigration from Bulgaria,

When Bulgaria initially joined the EU there were limitations on the number of immigrants allowed to legally immigrate to the UK, this limitations have now being lifted,

Why is Bulgaria different from other EU countries that also have no limitation?

To understand this you need to understand the political situation present in Bulgaria,

Bulgaria has dreams of a greater Bulgaria , with claims in territories in Moldavia and Macedonia, To bolster it's claims to this territories, Bulgaria is offering Bulgarian passports to any one claiming Bulgarian ancestry in these countries. Given the economic conditions in Moldavia and Macedonia (country claiming the name of Macedonia, not Greek province of Macedonia) I would not be surprise if every one there did not some how find some Bulgarian ancestry

So you all don't have to only worry about Bulgarian immigration, but an influx of Moldavians, Macedonians, and any one else who makes it there.

Bulgaria will be the back door to legal immigration in the EU, don't be surprised when you see Black Bulgarians arriving in England

You are getting a little over-excited about the issue of Moldova (Moldavia was the Soviet Republic, Moldova since independence in 1991) and Macedonia. While a great little story currently being peddled by the usual suspects (Daily Mail and Telegraph and their friends at Migration Watch), reality is not quite so dramatic.

Moldova's population of approx. 3.6 million has faced severe rates of emigration since independence. Possibly over half the population is currently living and working outside Moldova, in Russia and western Europe. Most are there illegally. If they gain Bulgarian citizenship they became legal residents and thus taxpayers etc. If you read the Mail it tries to make out that the entire Moldovan and Macedonian populations are heading for the UK.

Similarly in Macedonia over 10% of the population has legally emigrated since the break-up of Yugoslavia, and the total figure is probably 3 times that number. It is somewhat unlikely that the entire populations of these 2 countries will up sticks and move to the UK.

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/report-macedonia-drained-by-migration

Here's an intelligent, non-agenda driven analysis of the impact of migration in the UK:

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/6399/economics/impact-of-immigration-on-uk-economy/

Hmmm, just wonder, what are property prices in Bulgaria?

Suppose once every one has left for Russia or the UK, I'll just grab it.

Might get a nice mansion by the Black Sea, build a huge casino and

retirement homes for disgruntled G13 citizens.

Anyone interested in investing? Please contact my Nigerian agent, he

conveniently moved to Regency Street with his Ghanes financial advisor.

If they're working what's the problem? They'll pay tax and contribute to the economy just as the Poles and other EU citizends have done.

The problem is the poles, Romanians etc will work for a lot less than Brits and will put up with harsher conditions, making the minimum wage the norm and taking away any rights the workers had.

Well I do agree with you, that they will be working for much less then the Brits would

but don't blame them, blame the employers who pay less to those foreigners because

they are convenient, cheap and are not organised.

Not the immigrants fault. We just use them to fill our empty spaces and as cheap

labourers and when things go wrong in our countries, we feel very nationalistic,

we want them all out. We will even point our fingers at people who have foreign

sounding names or looks but have our nationality.

I believe it's not just a British syndrome but all over our "developed" world.

Everywhere a little bit different but same-same.

These discussions always end up comparing extremes. It's part of Godwin's Law I believe.

There exists a serious problem in the UK of the career welfare claimant. I do know of people in their forties who've never had a job yet have 'a bad knee'. Well, I'm chronically diabetic with heart disease and somehow I manage it and there's often long periods between projects, being self-employed I have no access to the system. I am of course obliged to pay for them.

You can see why I get pi$$ed off with this.

Well I'm very sorry for you Mr. MJP.

I assume you must be male between 32 and 55, no specific religious believes,

heterosexual, single or divorced, Caucasian and British.

Sorry, no specific rights for you!!!

If at least you could try to be gay, Mormon or a pregnant teenager, if you could be

dyslexic, disabled or dis-functional, you would have some rights and if you could be

a pregnant, gay, dis-funktional, teenage Mormon, you get all the rights.

BUT, you are probably just Mister Average, so only two rights for you - pay tax and

NI contribution. Suppose, you could vote as well, if only you could find some English

leaflets in the voting office and voting day is not an important football/rugby/golfing day

Of course Canadians and other citizens of commonwealth nation will still be banned from working in the U.K. without special Visas.

Sorry, they are to highly qualified, to well educated and we could not complain about them

One of the many reasons why I left England to live here. The whole country has been sinking into a quagmire for at least 10 years now. That video is awesome !

Rubbish. Every country is changing and it is a "global" fact that most countries (there are a few exceptions) have many more foreigners in them then previous generations. The world is smaller and people are working abroad due to global trading and manufacturing.

As each country allows foreigners to work in their country there will always be people like you who see this a negative thing, sure there are downsides but what about the upsides? For example more taxpayers in the country, (I am sure I pay much more tax then the average Thai for example), new skills and shared learning, stronger trade agreements and basically support for the countries growth. Have you thought of those? Seems not..

It is also ironic that as you complain about the influx on foreigners in the the UK, which you site as one of your reasons for leaving, you have actually moved abroad yourself and plonked yourself in Thailand. It's hypocritical, it's a brave new world, get used to it, try and accept it because it's not going to change.

When the government is paying money printing leaflets in Polish language instructing them how to claim money on the dole meanwhile ignoring much more important things and claiming there is no money to pay for them, you know there is something wrong. I have no problem with foreigners as long as they don't try to chest the system. Don't try and pick a fight with me as I am not interested. Save your vitriolic speeches for someone else who gives a crap...There are many more important reasons why I left but this was one small part of it.

Well that's now one thing I do have to agree with you.

If a country wants to stop the influx of foreign immigrants from "Sub-standard" countries,

why is just about any leaflet from the government translated in to :

- Polish,

- Urdu,

- Russian,

- Gujarati,

- Hindi,

- Bengali,

- Farsi,

- Bengali,

- Pushto,

- Somali,

- Punjabi,

- Turkish,

- Welsh

- Spanish

- Portuguese

- even French.

Are those the desirable countries?

Now I haven't seen any leaflets translated in to German or Italian.

So, must be that it's the Italians, Germans, Austrians, Swiss and the people from Lichtenstein

that are the real undesirables, scavenging our social welfare state?

For the GP you forgot to deduct:

First off all TAX - fairly high tax and NI payments

Study loan repayments

Professional Body fees

BMA Membership fees

Indemnity insurances

All the tests and certifications need to be paid for

Further education (although they used to be paid by some drug companies) today you have to pay for yourself.

Not enough, you'll have to pay for all your children's transport to school. All the meals or trips they have.

You will need Dental insurance, as social will not pay for a GP or his family.

If you're sick, you'll pay for most of your medication.

If you should suffer a "stress related illness" as many doctors do, insurance will not pay.

And if you get to be unemployed, you can't even go on the dole.

If your fridge brakes, you have to buy a new one yourself.

If your matrass is a few years old, you have to pay that one by yourself.

In fact, nothing for free apart from some pencils and key rings from your drugrep.

As for the unemployed, you forget to add:

No TAX to pay

Income from the job as night security guard (cash in hand of course)

Income from repairing the GP's second hand car (paid him in cash too)

Free fridge, matress or other "necessities" when needed,

Free dental treatment

Free transport to school, free meals, free trips

Subsidised this and free that.

And yeah, I do speak from experience, not from tabloid press.

You obviously have little idea how remuneration works in the NHS. Most GPs are actually self-employed. Each surgery is run as a private business to make a profit which is shared out by the partners. The difference between a private business and a GP surgery is that the staffing and utilities costs for the surgery are paid for by government (you and me).

There's also the Cost Rent scheme where a GP practice raise a mortgage to build a new surgery. They then get their local PCT to pay the mortgage using the Cost Rent scheme. When the mortgage is paid the Doctors, not the PCT, own the surgery (probably worth a million or two) that's been paid for by you and me.

GP salary = £100,000 p.a. Jobseeker's Allowance = £3728.4 p.a. You're telling me that the unemployed are getting £97,000 a year of other benefits on top of JSA?

Sustento - as obviously you do have a real good idea how the NHS works -

(although GP's are not really part of the NHS anymore, as you said, private, government controlled businesses).

Maybe you could explain how I can get my insurance to pay for stress related illness?

Maybe you could advice me to which doll office to go in order to get benefits as a self-unemployed person?

Maybe you could advice me how to get the money back we paid in to the surgery, if you and me paid it already?

Maybe you could even help me getting a 9th of that "millions worth" of surgery, once its paid off in 25 years time?

To get back to the topic, what I could complain about is those foreign eastern block doctors coming to the UK

to work weekends or a couple of months. Sure they must take British doctors work away as they get so well

paid,( £100,000 p.a - taxfree?) or could there be any other reason why our so well educated and highly paid

doctors and nurses move to other countries? Whilst we only get unskilled scavengers abusing our welfare state,

aggressively begging and excrementing our streets. Wearing strange clothes and exercising weird customs.

De-colonializing our good western society.

Dohhhh ............

Say millions do arrive.

Where are they going to live?

Is there not a housing crisis in the UK due to the lowest house building output for decades?

There's not even sufficient 'accommodation'.

No worries, Milton Keynes 2 on Dartmoor, MK 3 on Exmoor and MK4 in the lake district will take care of

a million. Maybe one more somewhere in Lincolnshire to welcome all those millions of immigrants. Maybe

somewhere around Boston just to give it a bit of a historical flair. That would even stimulate the economy,

create new jobs and those "foreign invaders" wouldn't need to queue in front of us in the benefits offices.

If they're working what's the problem? They'll pay tax and contribute to the economy just as the Poles and other EU citizends have done.

Depends which jobs they take. What do our unemployed do? Move to Eastern Europe?

No don't be silly man

They educate their children how to get to scavenge the most of our social system.

I guarantee you, in order to achieve that, you need at least two generations of

British experience to do so. Absolute no chance as a genuine unemployed

British worker who used to pay tax until unemployed or for any foreigner who

enters the UK for the first time.

An average British worker working his 45 hours per week plus numerous overtime

will be worse off then the average British unemployed person (mostly doing the

odd, regular cash in hand job) who knows how to get all kind of benefits - benefits

paid by his neighbour.

Now if you're British, are unemployed and subsequently have 7 children, you will

definitely better of then the average Doctor or a GP working in a hospital, maybe,

just maybe even better off then the average Brit living here in Thailand

BUT I suppose it's easier to blame foreigners then ones own kind.

The average wage for a GP £100,000 a year. Jobseeker's allowance is currently £71.70 a week.

For the GP you forgot to deduct:

First off all TAX - fairly high tax and NI payments

Study loan repayments

Professional Body fees

BMA Membership fees

Indemnity insurances

All the tests and certifications need to be paid for

Further education (although they used to be paid by some drug companies) today you have to pay for yourself.

Not enough, you'll have to pay for all your children's transport to school. All the meals or trips they have.

You will need Dental insurance, as social will not pay for a GP or his family.

If you're sick, you'll pay for most of your medication.

If you should suffer a "stress related illness" as many doctors do, insurance will not pay.

And if you get to be unemployed, you can't even go on the dole.

If your fridge brakes, you have to buy a new one yourself.

If your matrass is a few years old, you have to pay that one by yourself.

In fact, nothing for free apart from some pencils and key rings from your drugrep.

As for the unemployed, you forget to add:

No TAX to pay

Income from the job as night security guard (cash in hand of course)

Income from repairing the GP's second hand car (paid him in cash too)

Free fridge, matress or other "necessities" when needed,

Free dental treatment

Free transport to school, free meals, free trips

Subsidised this and free that.

And yeah, I do speak from experience, not from tabloid press.

[EDIT] Sorry, got a bit to over excited, forgot to say to ad childbenefit for those 7 kids I mentioned before.

If they're working what's the problem? They'll pay tax and contribute to the economy just as the Poles and other EU citizends have done.

Depends which jobs they take. What do our unemployed do? Move to Eastern Europe?

No don't be silly man

They educate their children how to get to scavenge the most of our social system.

I guarantee you, in order to achieve that, you need at least two generations of

British experience to do so. Absolute no chance as a genuine unemployed

British worker who used to pay tax until unemployed or for any foreigner who

enters the UK for the first time.

An average British worker working his 45 hours per week plus numerous overtime

will be worse off then the average British unemployed person (mostly doing the

odd, regular cash in hand job) who knows how to get all kind of benefits - benefits

paid by his neighbour.

Now if you're British, are unemployed and subsequently have 7 children, you will

definitely better of then the average Doctor or a GP working in a hospital, maybe,

just maybe even better off then the average Brit living here in Thailand

BUT I suppose it's easier to blame foreigners then ones own kind.

Ahhh, Thai communication skills at it's best !!!

Just wonder, if those 50'000 unique daily visitors on ThaiVisa would

copy and past that Reuters article, would we all be in court?

If people here in Thailand would use the social media to copy and

paste thousands of times that article, instead of just complaining about

how unjust the system is, would that bring a change?

How many of us have commented about bad journalism here in the

Land of the Free? How many of us have complained that the press

here is controlled, biased and un-professional?

But I suppose, most armchair experts here on the different forums rather

complain, argue and insult other people instead of taking their fingers

out of their backsides and do something positive, helping others and

with it, helping themselves.

Just hope those Journalists will get plenty of support, at least from their

friend, colleagues and from all the international media associations.

Sadly this is Thailand where the most common Thailish phrases are 'cannot' and 'no have;.

Well, not that much different then the rest of the world

I recon, the only difference with our western countries,

we "Don't want" and we "Can't be bothered"

Just wonder, if those 50'000 unique daily visitors on ThaiVisa would
copy and past that Reuters article, would we all be in court?

If people here in Thailand would use the social media to copy and
paste thousands of times that article, instead of just complaining about
how unjust the system is, would that bring a change?

How many of us have commented about bad journalism here in the
Land of the Free? How many of us have complained that the press
here is controlled, biased and un-professional?

But I suppose, most armchair experts here on the different forums rather
complain, argue and insult other people instead of taking their fingers
out of their backsides and do something positive, helping others and
with it, helping themselves.

Just hope those Journalists will get plenty of support, at least from their
friend, colleagues and from all the international media associations.

UPDATE:

Police demand right to self-defence in wake of protests

Does that mean, that until now,

everyone in Thailand has the right to defend themselves

apart from the police or the army?