Kitsune

A flaming exchange between two posters has been removed. Please let us get back on topic. Which for those who may have forgotten, was:

Fish Oil and Glucosamine and where to obtain them.

To be correct the OP was asking about Omega 3,which is not just present in fish oil, but other supplements which don't contain PCBs and are risk-free such as microalgeas or yeast based EPA/DHA supplements

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Kitsune

Here is a couple of extracts taken verbatim from one of the references you quote !

"No specific diet will cure rheumatoid arthritis"

"No special diet has been shown to help with osteoarthritis, but if you need to lose some weight we would recommend a balanced, reduced-calorie diet combined with regular exercise."

I posted half of dozen links full of detailed explanations about relation between food and arthritis, and you expect me to find a few words taken outof context?

What is this?

A joke?

If I post link(s) I absolutely ensure that I have read and understood the content so that I am in a position to respond to any queries !

Wide, since per Health Forum rules posters are fully responsible for the accuracy of what they post.

Do you mean accurately "wise"? lol

..

Here are in a long non exhaustive list some of the very reputable Health organizations who DO believe osteoarthritis is diet related,and guess what? It's the exact same dietary recommendation for RA: ie eat less processed food, less meat less dairy and more fruits and veg.

Arthritis research UK http://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/arthritis-information/arthritis-and-daily-life/diet-and-arthritis.aspx

Physicians committee for responsible medicine http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-topics/foods-and-arthritis

Bio medical central http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2474/11/280

The arthritis research institute of America http://preventarthritis.org/category/diet-tips/

US National Library of Medecine http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18407528

University of Carolina http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/nov98/jordan.htm

Sorry but none of these sites state that osteorathritis is caused by or an be completely cured by diet, and several of them do not discuss diet and osteoarthritis at all, i.e.:

1. Arthritis research UK http://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/arthritis-information/arthritis-and-daily-life/diet-and-arthritis.aspx Discusses diet only in terms of weight loss (no question about that) and its effect on heart disease.

2. Physicians committee for responsible medicine http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-topics/foods-and-arthritis Is talking about rheumatoid arthritis. (I would also debate the idea that this site is "reputable"; it is certainly not a scientific journal and despite the name, not aimed at or likely to be utilized by health professionals or researchers).

3. US National Library of Medecine http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18407528 Is about the use of rose hips supplements.

In addition:

Bio medical central http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2474/11/280 actually concludes: "progression of hip OA might be amenable to dietary modification or nutriceutical intervention." (emphasis mine) which is entirely different from saying that OA is caused by diet.

University of Carolina http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/nov98/jordan.htm Is not a study but rather a news article about a study. In my experience these often (indeed, usually) distort actual study findings. I am unable to locate the study referred to in any of the scientific literature, but the date was 1998 and certainly no conclusive proof of a diet-OA link (other than as related to obesity) was made at that time.

I don't know if you are unable to understand what you read in these sites or not bothering to read them but in either case your post above violates Forum rules re posting inaccurate information.

My goodness!

You do want me to read them for you?

OK

http://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/arthritis-information/arthritis-and-daily-life/diet-and-arthritis.aspx

Why is diet important ?

Although there are no diets or dietary supplements that will cure your arthritis, some people do find that a change in diet can improve their symptoms. But because people are all different and there are many different types of arthritis, what works for one person and their symptoms may not work for another.

It’s still worth thinking about your diet for the following reasons:

• If you’re overweight, losing some weight will reduce the strain on your joints so you may find you don’t need to take painkillers quite so often.
• A good diet can help to protect you against some potential side-effects of drugs.
• A healthy diet can also help to protect against heart disease (which can sometimes be a complication of certain types of arthritis).
  How can changing my diet help my arthritis?

Several links between arthritis and diet have been discovered through research. The two most important things to think about are:

• whether you’re a healthy weight
• whether your diet provides enough important vitamins and minerals.

If you have arthritis, doing all of the following is likely to help:

• Eat a balanced and varied diet to maximise your intake of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants and other nutrients.
• Change the type of fats and oils you eat and include oily fish and olive or rapeseed oil.
• Eat a more Mediterranean-style diet with plenty of fruit and vegetables.
• Get regular exercise.

Do I have to take each of them ?

Kitsune

Here is a couple of extracts taken verbatim from one of the references you quote !

"No specific diet will cure rheumatoid arthritis"

"No special diet has been shown to help with osteoarthritis, but if you need to lose some weight we would recommend a balanced, reduced-calorie diet combined with regular exercise."

I posted half of dozen links full of detailed explanations about relation between food and arthritis, and you expect me to find a few words taken outof context?

What is this?

A joke?

I have no idea what was in fact wrong with you but I very much doubt there was any serious consideration of osteoarthritis in your case unless it was prior to an initial Xray. That dietary changes resolved it would suggest some sort of reaction to substances in your previous diet, perhaps to specific food preservatives or a severe food allergy. Something like that could indeed give a clinical appearance similar to RA/lupus since in both instances the immune system is hyper-reacting. Thai doctors do tend, in my experience, to often miss diagnoses related to allergic reactions.

But you did not have true lupus; lupus has never been cured by diet (and plenty of desperate lupus sufferers have tried). An inflammatory or allergic response to food additives or specific other constituents being ingested in food would, on the other hand, respond to diet and it sounds like this is what happened in your case.

Good that it did, but please do not let that lead you to believe or advocate that "all" diseases are due to diet or can be cured by diet.

Yeah right, I also had an "allergic reaction" to something that caused:

- Extremely painful Chrone Disease: ie atrocious abdominal pains that makes people think your apendice has burst or you are about to give birth.

- Also very painful and overloaded PMS

- Psoriasis

- Constipation: And no 2/3 times a week is not normal, now it's everyday, thank God!

- Chronic fatigue

- Depression and anxiety

- Repeated Ear infections

My doctor calls it DIET, and I was told in advance all these symptoms would disappear and they did (like the arthritis).

But my doctor and I must be wrong and Sheryl right:. It was an allergy !

PS: No I am not saying ALL diseases are food induced, but many are indeed due to diet.

Kitsune

Here is a couple of extracts taken verbatim from one of the references you quote !

"No specific diet will cure rheumatoid arthritis"

"No special diet has been shown to help with osteoarthritis, but if you need to lose some weight we would recommend a balanced, reduced-calorie diet combined with regular exercise."

1/ Sorry you need to resend the links or it has no value.

2/ Extracts taken out of contexts have no meaning

3/ the second one does recommend a "balance diet' as opposed to our Sheryl who claims "diet has nothing to do with it".

Same same.

Officially no one knows the origin of arthritis of both types, so really that does not matter, especially when none of the products available manage to cure any of them.

I asked the 8 doctors I saw during the course of my race against the disease for 6 months, no one could give me an answer.

Bangkok must be in a "developing country" as no one among the 8 "specialists" I saw could give me a firm diagnostic on arthritis. Let alone which type. To be more accurate it seemed like I had them all, the more doctor I saw the more diseases I had: RA one day, may be Osteo Arthritis the next, perhaps lupus, and a couple of other auto immune diseases I cannot remember now.

May be I should give you their name so you can explain to all the doctors I saw the differences between the two?, because it seemed to be depending of the mood of the day.

I don't know if the products you are referring to "help",but what I was given was nasty I thew it up instantly,never fell so nauseous in my life, I hard great difficulty in keeping them in and fell so dizzy could not stand up.

Changed diet got rid of it in 3 days, but you are going to say it's obviously "false".

Cambodia is affected by Western Diet and has been for years.

Yes most developing countries don't have data available but some have and they have very low prevalence.

Cambodia is affected by Western Diet and has been for years.

What a load of rubbish!

Most Khmers can not afford to buy food with western influence.

In Kamphon Speu province more than 50% of people live on .50c a day,

Have you ever been to Cambodia??????????

Erm "Western diet" does not only mean eating at Pizza Hut or Mc Donald's

I never said all diseases are diet induced.

Which source are you quoting when stating that "95% of Cambodians are unaffected by Western diet" ?

This FAO report clearly shows the rising of meat especially chicken (+36% in 4 years) and fish (+ 20% in aquaculture in 4 years) consumption.

That's only for the past 4 years but I bet it has been raising gradually before 2007.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/015/al988e/al988e00.pdf

Here are in a long non exhaustive list some of the very reputable Health organizations who DO believe osteoarthritis is diet related,and guess what? It's the exact same dietary recommendation for RA: ie eat less processed food, less meat less dairy and more fruits and veg.

Arthritis research UK http://www.arthritisresearchuk.org/arthritis-information/arthritis-and-daily-life/diet-and-arthritis.aspx

Physicians committee for responsible medicine http://www.pcrm.org/health/health-topics/foods-and-arthritis

Bio medical central http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2474/11/280

The arthritis research institute of America http://preventarthritis.org/category/diet-tips/

US National Library of Medecine http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18407528

University of Carolina http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/nov98/jordan.htm

"We, foreigners, use to treat any health problem with prescribed drugs, and herbs and natural food supplements are not of very common use in our culture....In some countries those products also are expensive for daily use....but now....we are in Thailand...."

Well not all....all of my family never uses medications unless sick. My parents over 70 don't eat any single tablet or supplement.....I as well....

For the mangosteen, please note that these nice anti-oxidants are the red color outside....much fun eating it.

Hint: We in Europe have a similar natural food supplement which tastes much better and has similar antioxidants. It is very wide used and called red wine.

content mmol/100 g

Red wine has 2.5 antioxidants.

Black tea :1

green tea 1.5

Grape juice 1.2

Expresso ; 14

pomegranate juice 2.1

walnut 21

macha 100

berries 119

dried amla 261

dragon blood from Peru 2897

I don't live in Peru but here we have amla /makampom widely available

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2891-9-3.pdf

Same same.

Officially no one knows the origin of arthritis of both types, so really that does not matter, especially when none of the products available manage to cure any of them.

I asked the 8 doctors I saw during the course of my race against the disease for 6 months, no one could give me an answer.

Bangkok must be in a "developing country" as no one among the 8 "specialists" I saw could give me a firm diagnostic on arthritis. Let alone which type. To be more accurate it seemed like I had them all, the more doctor I saw the more diseases I had: RA one day, may be Osteo Arthritis the next, perhaps lupus, and a couple of other auto immune diseases I cannot remember now.

May be I should give you their name so you can explain to all the doctors I saw the differences between the two?, because it seemed to be depending of the mood of the day.

I don't know if the products you are referring to "help",but what I was given was nasty I thew it up instantly,never fell so nauseous in my life, I hard great difficulty in keeping them in and fell so dizzy could not stand up.

Changed diet got rid of it in 3 days, but you are going to say it's obviously "false".

Cambodia is affected by Western Diet and has been for years.

Yes most developing countries don't have data available but some have and they have very low prevalence.

Just look at the world map !

Arthritis is only present in countries based on Western diet.

http://www.nature.com/nrrheum/journal/v6/n8/fig_tab/nrrheum.2010.86_F1.html

Nothing other than consuming fewer calories than you burn will do that, and the easiest way to achieve that, is a combination of caloric restriction and exercise.

+ 1

If loosing weight was just about calories counting and exercise the world would have no fat people.

Do you not think that the world has many lazy people that don't exercise and eat a lot

of junk food or fatty foods?

Highly processed high in sugar and fat food (such as Oreo) addiction had been proved to be higher than class A drugs.

Also calories intake does not account for the same amount of weight gain depending of how processed the food is.

So it's not just about counting calories and a few jogs around the block.

The fact that you cannot tell a Thai he/she's wrong, because of the face thing.

Or even make them feel like they have done something wrong

is tiresome.

Is everyone in the beauty contest a winner? Does every Thai boxing match end in a draw? Is every person in the Army a general. Are there no people in Thai prisons? Does every legal action in Thailand not have a winner? ...........

Is losing a competition the same as being wrong?

My food bill is about one third of what you quote (around 2000-3000THB a month) and it's whole food mostly organic.

Nothing other than consuming fewer calories than you burn will do that, and the easiest way to achieve that, is a combination of caloric restriction and exercise.

+ 1

If loosing weight was just about calories counting and exercise the world would have no fat people.

No supplement will change anything to your condition.

It's the food.

PhiPs are a class of carcinogens which are a class of mutagens found in cooked meat poultry fish and cigarets smoke.

PhIP is a single chemical, not a class. It is formed when certain amino acids found only in meat are heated in the presence of sugar. It is not found in cigarette smoke.

It is undoubtedly mutagenic, and carcinogenic in lab animals. There isn't any evidence (yet) of its being carcinogenic in man.

The intake of PHiP found in processed, fried, or stir-fried meat was correlated to the DNA mutation they found in women breast tissues

Reference? I couldn't find any such study. (There is a similar study in rats - Durling et al. 2005)

PhiPs were discovered in ALL breast milk of meat eating women whichever the cooking method (but none in the vegetarian)

Reference? I couldn't find any such study.

Incidentally, not all cooked meat contains PhIP. It's only if you "cremate" it that PhIP is formed. Medium-done lamb chops, medium burgers, and lightly browned bacon contain none (Nomish et al. 1990).

Edit: fixed quotes

Psst :watch the video, the references are there.

Opps

Actually food is cheaper here, but the quality is generally poorer. I personally cook for myself (not just Western food) because I really don't think much of Thai food.

Must learn to type one day.

How is food quality "poorer"?

The fact that you cannot tell a Thai he/she's wrong, because of the face thing.

Or even make them feel like they have done something wrong

is tiresome.

Those price are for idiots who still buy toxic overprice processed junk.

Tell your friend who cannot write on Thaivisa that dogs who bark at night have issues.

Putting anti-barking collars is like moping around an open water tab.

Tell him to stop mopping and turn the tap off.

Bangkok metro

Huge waste of talents

Dogs help blind people, do your shopping, save thousands of lives by diagnosing cancers, epilepsy fits, detecting heart attacks or even driving your car?

Fetch is a great game,and he's already good at it

Adorable affectionate and well behaved puppy.

Great with kids, very loving, sweet personality, does not bark, sit and give paw on command.

Looking for good loving home with garden.