Thait Spot

This will be a hard concept for Thaksin and his PTP lackeys to understand - that someone would take a stance on a moral position where there is no benefit to themselves.

I don't see any Democrat Minister taking a moral stand. Mores the pity.

As for former PM Abhisit he appears to have broken all of the rules of moral conduct in his handling of the Redshirt demonstration in the Thai Capital thus being directly or indirectly responsible for much loss of life. Given his illustrious UK education at the seat of the greatest law makers on the planet his actions puzzle law abiding members of the Thai public.

Of course they are taking a moral stand and one to be applauded by the nation.

Ever since Thaksin, Chalerm's sons, Arisman and the rest set the tone for fleeing from justice for enough time to get things illegally "fixed" the whole criminal population flees justice from murderers to bus drivers.

Aphisit's and Suthep's stand is truly admirable.

The reason those with a red affiliation don't like it is that it shows that one side has morals that Thai children can take example from at a time when corruption is so widely accepted. The other side doesn't despite having their "government" in power and their arms around a few authorities' throats.

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Nonsense.

The fleeing has been happening way before Thaksin came along. It's the way it has always been.

Chuan Leekpai's (Abhisit's mentor) own brother fled the country after allegedly embezzling from a Thai bank. Chuan also has a conviction from the National Anti-Corruption Commission for undeclared shares in a co-operative.

Suthep brought down Chuan's administration in the 90's with his corruption.

One side has morals? History says otherwise.

The "Johnny threw a stone at me so I threw one back" defence is also a disease in Thailand.

You don't believe the actions of the politicians influence those of the public? You don't think that setting an example is as important for the country's leaders as it is for someone like John Terry?

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Does anyone know what the exact communiqué was from the CRES to the RTA?

Was it an authorisation to use live ammunition in self defence?

Was it an order to clear protesters with the use of arms?

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‘In the case when [the authorities] find flagrant offences in which the perpetrators are using firearms against officials, or use weapons or explosives against military positions and important premises as specified by the CRES, the authorities are authorized to use firearms against the perpetrators to stop their actions. But, if the perpetrators are mingling among the protesters to the extent that such use of firearms might endanger innocent people, the use of firearms is prohibited, except in cases where military units have already deployed marksmen sufficiently able to shoot to stop the activities. In addition, if military units find targets but cannot themselves carry out the shooting, for example, because the targets are shielded, etc., the units can ask for support from snipers from the CRES.’

The pro-bono Red Shirt propagandist will tell you that means Abhisit ordered the murder of innocent, unarmed Red Shirts.

That seems to be very straight forward to me.

I can't imagine how that directive, coupled with a man running out of a building and into ongoing crossfire could be construed as murder by anyone let alone somebody who is the head of the DSI.

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Does anyone know what the exact communiqué was from the CRES to the RTA?

Was it an authorisation to use live ammunition in self defence?

Was it an order to clear protesters with the use of arms?

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Dear Chalerm,

Are you aware that there have been more deaths in the Thai south conflict than there have been allied troop deaths in Iraq?

And more than double Afghanistan?

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Thailand needs an independent ministry of corruption so the politicians and poo yais can be warned to cover their tracks and corruption will subsequently disappear.

Alternatively the resplendent Chewit could be tasked with the job.

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Abhisit and his cronies did really think they would get away with this Scott free didn't they, amazing, how on earth did he expect anything other than charges for what he did in 2010. And to now try to say it s part of some conspiracy aimed and reconciliation is just embarrassing.

Time to face the music Abhisit. The sad thing is he was probably just a puppet in all this and the orders came from the army that put him in power, they saw a weak man and took advantage of him and now He must pay the price.

<deleted>. The PM has the duty to control a violent gathering impeding citizens of the capital. A SoE was rightfully declared and ample warnings given that force would be used to end it. Extrapolating a stray shot into a murder charge for giving legitimate orders is a ridiculous construct that appeals only to the mindless.

Speaking of mindless you have put your finger right on the seat of Thaksin's power. Add in unwarranted wealth and you have the brother of Yingluck the Prime Minister of Thailand. What a coincidence.

It reminds me a bit of Julian Critchley's description of Michael Hesseltine. Quite apt for Thaksin

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Is this another "G2G" deal that may be as slippery as the rice scam?

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You have no idea what was discussed behind those closed doors. All you know is that the army provided a safe location. The rest is idle speculation.

Even if the army had persuaded some coalition parties to defect it would not have been illegal.

Blatant denial of the established facts makes you look stupid.

“Gen Anupong accepted that meetings between him and politicians from the Democrats and other smaller parties at his residence at the First Infantry Regiment on Vibhavadi Rangsit road paved the way for the Democrats to eventually form a new coalition government." (Newin VS the army)

Personal abuse will just confirm to everyone that you are a thug.

Have you nothing more than abuse and even more idle speculation to support your view?

I guess Yingluck and her collection box wielding acolytes must be hoping above everything that the tens of billions of dollars spent on building massive concrete walls was spent effectively and that the neuronically challenged Plodprasop is not declaring an inundation as being an "act of God" and not a flood as he did in Sukhothai this week.

And........I suppose that those mysterious 'men in black' were using spud guns and water pistols that go bang!!!!.

Have I ever said that , No, so why bring it up? The mysterious "men in black" were armed. As to who they were, that's never been solved, which is strange because the government of the time claimed to have military intelligence that there were 500 of them ( enough to warrant a military response of 30,000 soldiers, apparently) yet none were arrested. Well, I find it strange, with that number of security forces milling about.

Maybe all the evidence went the same way as the millions of bullets the army was supposed to have fired along with all the death and damage caused.

Of all the contentious issues in Thailand this is a disgusting example of the Govt turning a blind eye to a very lethal and urgent problem. And they still demand environmental impact studies when this crap exists... What? Charge or pay for the study and show protocol of having complied yet ignore all else? <deleted>...

Just this government?

Yeah but! Yeah but! Yawn

96 in total with the 5 red shirts killed up north after the 19th. Take away 15 security forces (actually 14 as one army guy was definitely shot by his own comrades) That leaves 82 - add in the 1 guy who recently died in hospital from his wounds. That to me adds up to 83 civilians more than likely shot by the security forces. My case stands.

You forgot the multi-coloureds and by-stander at Silom.

Sent from my HTC phone.

Forgot how?

Your HTC Phone seems to be talking to itself.

Is that available at Google Play? Or is it a plug-in to the TV app?

If you repeated your stupid question in the right thread you may get an answer, However seeing as that kind of question is regularly asked in one form or another you'll probably find an answer using the amazingly forensic TV search function.

Here's another stupid question to ask:

How many goverments having presided over a badly botched first crackdown on a protest resulting in 25 deaths and a couple of hundred or so injured would consider upping the ante to include live fire zones and snipers and spend another 9 days ensuring that the death toll reached 83 and over 2,500 injured, including innocents, journalists,cameramen, and medics?

Shouldn't take long to get and answer to that one

Yes, that is a truly stupid question - good of you to say so.

The 'crackdown' was a last resort by the government after offering the occupant's leaders a way out.

'Ensuring the death toll reached 83......'. This is more than stupid - it just reveals how your hatred is clouding your judgement.

If you really believe that the government at the time was actually wanting death, I'm sorry for you.

You're telling me that the government authorises the use of live ammunition, announces an emergency decree that provides amnesty to all security forces, kills 20 civilians in one botched crowd control operation but still goes on to set up live fire zones and deploy snipers, is suprised when the death toll rises?

Then we on this forum are regularly told that the red shirt leadership, but mainly Thaksin, deliberately caused confrontation so as to cause red shirt deaths so that the government of the day could be wrongfully accused. Meanwhile, back in reality we have the "democrat" party MP's actually accuse them of doing so.

Thats not stupid, thats Criminal

How many live rounds were fired?

As us Welsh rugby supporters say, PPD is on song here............

An accurate description of the horrific government incompetence and needless army violence / ineptitude that made a bad situation a thousand times worse.

Rourke's Drift comes to mind. Dwp.

The porosity of the soil in the whole Chao Phraya delta means this practise is very dangerous.

Given that most people use well water puts it right back into the food chain.

Given some if the chemicals stated, this waste contains industrial refuse

Forgive my ignornace as regards hydrology but <deleted> is a water pushing machine ?......is this a new PC term made up by the esteemed science and technology minister to describe a tug boat with its prop turning...

It is a boatless motor.

Very smart man is Plodprasop. You don't need the boat, just the engine!

In fact I would go as far as saying that the natural flow of water, which has its fastest currents in the centre of the canal, would be slowed down by introducing turbulence

So Kittiratt is a liar and a coward.

Can't imagine where he gets it from....

Others in the financial sector (in the past).....

If you think that lying is excusable, why should anyone bother reading what you write?

And the little white lie about people running into bullets..??

Or was that a little white statement of denial ?

All this government's policies are short of the truth.

The term "running into bullets" can also imply that the victims were shot retreating to what they assumed were their own ranks.

I wonder how Abhisit knew the armed groups inside the protest wanted to cause a civil war? Did he have a chat with them or was he just projecting these intentions on them - you know like people do with their pets, ...

The Red Shirts aren't that hard to figure out.

I'm slightly confused here.

"The democrats have been known to "pimp their ride" with populist promises before election time"

followed by a few things the Democrats led government did. Does that mean the Democrats fulfilled their campaign promises? That's unfair, even under Thai rules, And look at the long list of items, not a single one seems to be aimed at deserving people

"the government issued a number of freebies some are extensions of what previous governments did, including free 15-year schooling (up from 12 years), extending free medical insurance, free electricity for the first 90 units, free water for the first 30 units, free rides on public buses for certain routes, and a THB500 monthly assistance for the elderly aged over 60.............."

Shame on them. Didn't they know Thailand needs multi-billion Baht projects which are easier for the 35% rule? What were they thinking? I can only hope the current government which is truly endorse by the electorate has cancelled all these freebies which only seem to benefit poor people, old people, school going children, but not the people who choose them with an overwhelming mandate, the people who want 'Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts' in a nicely, flowing down the river way as well!

No need to be confused rubl, all you needed to do was read the link provided. If you had read the link you would have understood that the dems were going well down the populism route but as usual you're in denial,

... end removed

In a discussion on how well the current government delivered on election promises you came up with an article which seems to show the previous government promised while in office and delivered (as far as possible till the new elections). Measurement to help the population in a structured manner as one would expect from a government.

Now you may like to complain about the costs, but even if those 'populist' measures cost THB 100 billion instead of THB 2 billion, it still shines nicely in the face of the curret governments grandiose plans like THB 350 billion on rice price pledging which helped lots of rich people getting richer, but didn't do much for small farmers apart from increasing the domestic price for rice which directly eats into the daily minimum wage increase most didn't didn't even get yet. Structural approach to help? Oh yes, corporate tax decreased almost on day zero, helping those companies who do pay corporate tax, the needy big ones.

Wage hike will stimulate economy: expert

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The increase in the daily minimum wage to Bt300 in another 70 provinces, which was approved on Tuesday and will go into effect on January 1 next year, will help stimulate consumption of domestic products and be beneficial to the economy in the long run, a Chulalongkorn University economics lecturer commented yesterday.

The hike would not affect employers or result in much higher costs, said Assoc Prof Narong Phetprasert.

"There is a wide misunderstanding that the hike will result in a 40-per-cent rise in production costs, but the figure is more likely to be 15 per cent on average," he said.

Businesses expected to be most affected by the hike are those in labour-intensive sectors such as textiles and furniture. Some of these, however, should be able to take advantage of government help to negotiate with neighbouring countries for incentives and assistance in relocating out of Thailand, said Narong.

"Those [Thai-owned] factories should be operated in Myanmar, Cambodia and Laos, hiring local workers under tax incentives and other investment-relevant benefits given by host countries," he added.

A Thailand Development Research Fund senior official, Yongyuth Chalaemwong, approved a minimum-wage hike in principle, but said it should be implemented step by step over a three-year period.

"Paying Bt300 to workers in 70 provinces [in addition to the seven already covered] at one time will abruptly and greatly burden employers, who as a result may have no choice but to opt for lay-offs or to give up their businesses.

"Increasing work efficiency through skills training will be an effective way to cope with unemployment in the long term, because it will help unskilled labourers extend their contracts, while those laid off will be able to get training and be re-hired quickly - there is still a lack of skilled labour," he added.

-- The Nation 2012-09-07

So, to paraphrase this denizon of fiscal discipline's academia , we can expect over 15% inflation, a sharp increase in unemployment and Thailand's neighbours to be laughing all the way to the bank.

This will be good for Thailand because it will stimulate the domestic economy? Screw the poor and the unemployed!

If you want a large pump like New Orleans now have, you need an engine like this:

You'd turn every Bangkok toilet into a foul smelling geyser with that horrendous monster.

It'd be raining sanitary ware all over the Chao Phraya delta

350 billion baht of routine weed removal works wonders.

Routine maintenance? Might just catch on!