Krataiboy

5 hours ago, mrfill said:

Crikey - if flu kills 650 million a year then in 10 years 6.5 billion will have died i.e. about the entire planet.

The figure you are looking for is between 290000 and 650000. Even with all the strict controls, lockdowns and quarantines, covid-19 has taken 480,000 and is still rising at 5000 a day. The 1968 flu was met with no lockdown, no controls and.. hey presto 80000 deaths. If nothing had been done this time the figures this time would have been at least comparable.

But I don't think there is a hidden agenda. Possibly more just opportunistic. A chance to get rid of western countries colossal debts by economic change, then back to the same old same old. No great 'new dawn'...

Apologies for the flu stats ricket. However, your speculation that UK deaths from COVID would have been comparable to the 1968 figure is not supported by the evidence.

By the time Boris locked the country down, deaths had already passed their peak and were declining fast, despite efforts to massage them back to more scary levels.

You may not see a new global economic dawn coming, but the WEF has opened the curtains to give us a glimpse.

https://www.weforum.org/great-reset

And at the risk of inviting that old put-down "conspiracy theorist" (again), I suggest this analysis of what is really going on is at least worthy of consideration.

https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1549-new-world-next-week-with-james-evan-pilato/

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I think that figure perhaps needs checking ???

Apologies for the ricket. Obviously, meant thousands, not millions.

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Yep got that, strange how on the 11th March he states: "COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu"

 

Then on the 26th March just 2 weeks later states: "May Turn Out to be Like a Bad Flu Season”

 

This is one guy we can surely trust. I have no idea which of his statements are correct so will go to the middle ground.

This is one guy we can surely trust.

Are you kidding? The man says different things out of the opposite sides of his mouth at the same time. And he's a fan of Bill Gates and his plans to vaccinate the whole world.

Just now, Meat Pie 47 said:

Rubbish for the seasonal flu you have a vaccine for Covid-19 you have not and it might take

years if ever we get an vaccine. I n the meantime millions will die.

Must be something in the meat pie.

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Can you check what Dr Anthony Fauci said? The only quote I can attribute to him on this is: 

 

"Fauci said COVID-19 is at least 10 times “more lethal” than the seasonal flu" Although I appreciate he may have updated his opinion on that but I can't find anything?

 

Also your flu figures are off by a rather large figure, its not 650,000,000 (million) people killed a year but between 290,000 - 650,000 (Thousand) although the average mortality rate from flu related deaths per year is 389,000 (Thousand)

Thanks for pointing out the arithmetical typo. I'll be losing my sense of smell and taste next!

Fauci's flu reference can be found here:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/dr-fauci-covid-19-may-turn-out-like-bad-flu-season/5708222

17 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

I don't know what you mean by "The policy of devoting the nation's public health facilities almost exclusively to victims of the virus has has also proved disastrous for thousands of people suffering from chronic progressive diseases such as cancer, heart problems and kidney disease, who have been deprived of life-extending hospital treatment."

It's the nature of a pandemic. If you have lots of people with a highly contagious disease needing to be hospitalized then it's going to be safer for those with weakened immune systems to stay away. What do you recommend hospitals do with seriously ill Covid patients? Turn away the critically ill in favor the chronically ill?

But we didn't.  A fortune was lavished on constructing prefabricated emergency field hospitals which were never used. Nurses and medical orderlies made viral videos of themselves dancing around deserted corridors of hospitals waiting for a crisis that never happened. Meanwhile, patients desperate for treatment for other serious conditions died in their homes under lockdown.

9 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I note the absence of the "It's only a 'flu and more die from influenza" brigade .

Have they read the science and the reports recently and found themselves failing?

 

Do you count the US's celebrated pandemic guru Dr Anthony Fauci as one of the brigade? He is on record of saying the consequences could be no worse than a severe flu pandemic. 

Not that this should make us complacent. Flu typically kills up to 650 million people a year, according to the CDC. But these regular culls do not typically lead to politicians to run around like headless chickens, savaging citizens rights and freedoms and destroying their domestic economies.

I'm old enough to remember that the Hong Kong flu epidemic of 1968 killed nearly twice as many Brits as has this latest corononavirus (evening using the Government's grossly exaggerated mortality figures). Yet hardly anyone turned a hair and life went on as normal.

Could there possibly be a hidden agenda behind the relentless COVID-19 fear-mongering by so-called "experts", politicians and the mass media? Nah, obviously just a coincidence that the World Economic Forum has come out swinging, demanding a total "reset" of the global economic and financial system.

Its an ill wind. . . 

https://scitechdaily.com/researchers-shocked-to-find-antarctic-penguins-much-happier-with-less-sea-ice/

6 hours ago, bendejo said:

 

Well, they started finding pieces of dinosaurs in the thawed tundra a few years ago.  The message there could be that we are still in that ice age you mention, and it's wearing off.  Just a matter of time until the Earth is "extremely hot" again.  Seems humans are helping to expedite it.

Two years in a row of massive crop failures in the northern hemisphere and it's time to relocate to a space colony.

 

 

Thank God for Elon Musk!

https://www.space.com/37200-read-elon-musk-spacex-mars-colony-plan.html

6 hours ago, robblok said:

So its not the government keeping them closed its the owners thinking it wont be profitable if they have to follow the rules. 

 

I don't get it what is the problem with the 50% capacity. I mean its not as if they would be at 100% capacity in low season anyway. 

 

 

Would you open a business to make a loss?????

44 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

In fact, in 2019 ICU occupancy was at 90% or greater. Which should be an unacceptable level. So during the height of the pandemic, what choice did the NHS have?

The UK's official COVID states are notoriously unreliable, but it appears that something like four out of ten mortalities are among elderly care home residents, whom the government egregiously failed to protect - indeed, some would argue deliberately left exposed and undefended.

Had these elderly victims been adequately shielded, fewer of them would have ended up in NHS hospitals, hardly any of which appear to have been overstretched even at the height of the COVID outbreak. Sending them back to residential and nursing home while still infectious simply compounded the catastrophic care home cull for which the Tory administration must be held to account.

The policy of devoting the nation's public health facilities almost exclusively to victims of the virus has has also proved disastrous for thousands of people suffering from chronic progressive diseases such as cancer, heart problems and kidney disease, who have been deprived of life-extending hospital treatment.

As the true cost of the government's execrable pandemic policies becomes clearer, that "Protect the NHS" slogan mouthed by team Johnson will have an increasingly hollow ring.

14 hours ago, Senior Player said:

And this is how fake news is spread. On 17 March, it was NHS England and NHS Improvement that wrote to trusts telling them to “expand critical care capacity to the maximum” by freeing up beds. This was to ensure that the NHS had the capacity it needed to treat Covid-19 patients in the coming weeks and months. NHS Providers, which is the association of trusts and foundation trusts in England, said: “NHS England and Improvement made this decision having just witnessed the health and care system in Northern Italy being overwhelmed by Covid-19 demand.” Two days later, the Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) and NHS England and Improvement published the discharge requirements in detail. 

 

So to claim that it was the British government that tossed them out on their ear to infect nursing homes is factually incorrect. It was NHS England and NHS Providers and a bunch of unelected bureaucrats in Department for Health that made that decision for England. As for Scotland and Wales, who had a far worse and shocking toll of deaths in care homes, they have their very own NHS Wales and NHS Scotland governed separately from England. So Scotland and Wales made their own health decisions independently. 

 

If there's any criticism to be had, then it should be laid squarely at the behemoth feet of the NHS. The testing was another centralized debacle at the hands of the Department for Health, only alleviated when the government finally stepped in, took it away and began farming it out to the private sector. Germany had no such problem as their healthcare system is totally private and financed by insurance contributions. There's no public middlemen or women to slow it down, waste money and cause red tape stoppage like in the NHS. 

 

I also don't think this is the right time to start measuring which countries have performed better or worse. The pandemic isn't over yet. Yes, it's mutating, but as China is currently finding out, it's still probably got a lot further to go before we eventually see the back of it. If their claims are correct, then they now have a more contagious and deadly strain. Or it could just be a symptom of having locked down too much and now those that didn't catch it before are now more susceptible the second time round. Don't ask me, I don't know as I wouldn't trust anything coming out of China with regards to facts and figures. 

Are you seriously implying the UK government didn't know what the NHS bureaucrats were up to? If so, Health Secretary Matt Hancock must be the ultimate spare pr-ck at the wedding.

Bob and weave as they and you might, the the Johnson administration has overall responsibility for the UK's pandemic strategy. The buck for the catastrophic care homes cull stops with Boris.

1 minute ago, johnpetersen said:

This is untrue. The temperature rebount from the last Ice Age ended about 7000 years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_temperature_record#/media/File:Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_temperature_record#/media/File:Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png

So the good news is our planet is actually cooler than it has been for for the last eight thousand years or so of the Holocene?

16 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Denying the reality by burying it into the argument of  cause does  nothing to alter the reality.

Sad  factor is that those perpetuating the denial will die of old age before they  need witness or cope with a  very altered world. Such selfish apes  we have become.

 

No one in their right mind would deny the world is warming, as we gradually emerge from the last ice age. The burning (sorry) question is the extent of mankind's contribution to the process.

Hopefully, when the media tears its attention from the panicdemic, we can have a cooler debate then in the past and introduce sensible policies to address this vital issue.

2 hours ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

poor kids... make them scared of each other and normal human interaction

 

kids do not DIE from corona stupid Mofo's

 

where to most people get new diseases ?  so called SANITIZED hospitals, full of germs

 

human is 100 trillion BACTERIA stuck together

A child who becomes infected with the COVID 19 virus statistically has more chance of being struck by lightning than dying of the disease.

The vast majority show only very mild symptoms or none at all, and all the research indicates that children aged ten and under cannot pass on the disease to adults, be they teachers or members of their own household.

While older students may be able to cope with such a dystopian learning conditions, younger children at risk of lasting psychological damage. For this reason alone, it is essential to get back to the "old normal" of education as soon as practically possible.

19 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

WHY ????

 

children DON'T DIE from corona

 

99,99999 SAFE

 

this stupid plandemic has to STOP

 

those same KIDS have been with parents & grandparents for months !!!

 

58 deaths in 5 months is a joke as that is less than DAILY ROAD DEATHS

 

Where are the real reasons of those people that died?  My guess: chronic diseases, old gate, overweight, T2D, no sun, no exercise, unhealthy lifestyle

Patchy national testing means we don't really know whether the virus has waved Thailand goodbye or is waiting for our collective guard to be lowered.

We will find out the hard way when our children are free once more to mix with their school chums.

If my daughter picks up the virus, she may well suffer no ill effects. But if she passes it on to her old dad . . . 

Surely better safe than sorry.

The number one priority should be to test students for the virus on arrival and at regular intervals thereafter, and immediately inform parents of any who test positive.

This is essential, particular for multi-generation households where a child who picks up the virus could pass it on to elderly relatives, with potentially fatal results.

17 hours ago, eeworldwide said:

You're STILL going go-go bars ??? Really?? What on earth is the appeal?!

Have you seen the guy without his mask?

13 hours ago, yuyiinthesky said:

It is very similar in Japan. Therefore also no real lockdown there. And surprisingly low numbers.

Last time I looked there were more than 20 COVID-infected countries which have not imposed lockdowns with better average results per capita than those which have.

In the US states with the tightest lockdowns have the highest infection rates. Alaska and Hawaii were the only states ranking in the top 10 most aggressive lockdowns that didn’t have high infection rates. They are also isolated relative to the contiguous United States.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/05/12/lockdown-fail-in-one-easy-graph/

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Its not really accurate to state that the more you test the more you find but its a good get out clause.

 

There are many variables in the results of increased testing. It really does depend on the state of the contagion in the country.

 

You can test more such as in the UK or NYC and countless other countries but still have your positive case numbers decreasing.

 

If you test more and your positive case numbers keep rising then you obviously haven't been testing enough previously and/or the pandemic is still spreading.

 

Other measures that are critically important, but a little more difficult to find data on is the positivity rate in testing. Then of course the time lag rates of hospital admissions

Sorry, I meant the more you test the more you find until you don't.

11 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Not a ramble and I have significantly more than a "basic biology" course  education. It's wonderful that you went to a thesaurus to find words that look nice. Unfortunately, it does not help with the BS you post.

 

Your Trump mimicking is laughable. I see the swipe you took at Dr. Fauci.  He's your bogeyman now isn't he, ever since he refused to support the idiotic claims of a miracle cure of Hydroxychloroquine. How did that multi million dollar fiasco work out? That's what happens when uneducated self appointed experts are unchecked.

 

Please explain how this herd immunity has been achieved in Sweden. For some strange reason there isn't anything actually published since the start of the Swedish adventure that supports this concept of "herd immunity". You need a long term immunity and guess what? No one has demonstrated that the long term immunity exists. If there was this magical herd immunity,  the numbers of infections in Sweden would not be continuing to grow while they have been falling over the past month in surrounding countries. Yes, i see your use of  Russian media. You cannot be expected to be taken seriously when that's your primary source of info. The Russians have been feeding and  distributing false information in a successful effort to destabilize western countries. 

 

I note your allegation of a conspiracy by Big Pharma and "politicians".  Another Russian sabotage campaign. What exactly is this Big pharma conspiracy? You do know that the most likely vaccines will be split between Oxford University and Sanofi, don't you?  Both are doing this as a public service. The vaccines will be sold at cost and will be shared with less fortunate countries. The delay in getting the vaccine out will be due to the lack of syringes and glass vials needed to administer the vaccine. Big Pharma will not profit from this.

 

I find it odd that you lambaste "Main Stream Media" in the West, but embrace as the gospel truth, information disseminated by China and Russia,  

I should have known better than to tangle with someone who learned basic biology.

14 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

No. that is your biased political agenda.  The 2nd wave was  expected and predicted. Unlike the first  wave, countries are better prepared and  have the equipment on hand, the testing protocols in place and a population that is mentally prepared.  Your opinion is assumes that an infectious disease cannot be managed or contained. on the contrary, a rapid response to a reoccurrence is  how it will be managed.

 

What is this herd immunity you claim exists? Can you please provide actual published data that supports "herd immunity" in respect to Covid 19. With your advanced knowledge of immunology and virology, please share how this herd immunity has magically appeared.  With your advanced education please enlighten us how this "herd immunity" has been achieved in Sweden or elsewhere and why no one is able to demonstrate that it exists in respect to the Covid19 infection.

 

Covid19  is a corona virus. Some common colds are caused by Corona viruses. if there was herd immunity, no one would become ill with the corona caused colds. If there was herd immunity, swine herds would not be wiped out by corona virus infections. This is why  there are vaccines for canine, feline and porcine specific corona viruses.

 

Did you ever attend university, and if so, did you successfully complete a basic  biology course? One of the topics covered is adaptation and  selection. You  should go and have a wee bit of a catch up session.

 

I can deduce from your discursive and largely irrelevant ramble around the subject of corona viruses that you took a basic biology course. 

Congratulations. I am suitably impressed.

You accuse me of "a biased political agenda" for postulating that Big Pharma and politicians have a shared interest in making mass vaccination the only way out of the COVID "crisis". And there was me thinking I was just stating the obvious.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/coronavirus-gates-foundation/5706842

I'm surprised a student of basic biology like yourself should summarily dismiss the notion that Swedes might gain herd immunity from the COVID virus. This process is apparently well advanced in my own homeland. Could be you're the one with some catching up to do.

https://www.rt.com/uk/489513-covid-pandemic-over-herd-immunity/

A recent survey showed university educated folk are more prone than us plebs to believe what they read in the mainstream media. Could this explain why you have swallowed their "second wave" scaremongering (though I note you are careful to hedge your bets, Fauci-style!)?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/health/health-news/dr-fauci-says-a-second-wave-of-covid-19-is-not-inevitable-in-the-fall/ar-BB14FVGJ