snake24

If the OP is interested in the hierarchical social system in Thailand he needs to do some research on 'sakdina'. Here's a start...

http://www.hrsolidarity.net/mainfile.php/1999vol09no06/1018/

So i am correct after all.

Original Thai's came from China?? You mean the Isaan guys originated from Yunan?

Yup that's right. Go search on the Dai ethnic group of china one of the recgonized 52 minority groups of china from yunan province. They celebrate the water festival and have similar practices to the thais. The dai are the ancestors of the modern day thais.

Go search up on mongolian invasion of china and how the minorities like the dai escaped china proper from yunan and went down into south east asia.

Utter drivel, are you seriously trying to tell us there were no Tai people living here before the Dai from Yunan arrived?

dai and tai are very different and also pls there is a difference in mass migration and small numbers living there. Lame.

Original Thai's came from China?? You mean the Isaan guys originated from Yunan?

Yup that's right. Go search on the Dai ethnic group of china one of the recgonized 52 minority groups of china from yunan province. They celebrate the water festival and have similar practices to the thais. The dai are the ancestors of the modern day thais.

Go search up on mongolian invasion of china and how the minorities like the dai escaped china proper from yunan and went down into south east asia.

Isaan people did not originate from the same place. The Thais used to nip over the Mekong River and kidnap Laos people to work in their rice fields - hence the linguistic and cultural similarities with natives of modern Laos (if that's not an oxymoron)

I don't mean issan ppl muppet.

No superiority comes with being "pure Thai" because a) it can't be seen on one's face, it can't be seen in one's surname, c) wealth/power mean much more (neither the Royal Family, major politicians, nor any major business dynasty I can think of is "pure Thai"), d) there are probably very few "pure Thai" even in existence -- and the ones that do exist are probably farmers.

Next brilliant theory?

Let's not try to be anal about it but the fact of the matter is there are different thais and some can be seen from physical appearance like the dark skinned issan ppl. You can tell them apart from thais from other regions.

and lets cut to the chase...where do "resident" farangs figure in the pecking order...just above or just below the Soi dogs ?

you trying to sound all intellectual, but not doing a very good job dear boy

Below the soi dogs though. That's payback for the slavery of black ppl. At least you can use the same rest rooms and get served in the same restaurants as the thais.

Original Thai's came from China?? You mean the Isaan guys originated from Yunan?

Yup that's right. Go search on the Dai ethnic group of china one of the recgonized 52 minority groups of china from yunan province. They celebrate the water festival and have similar practices to the thais. The dai are the ancestors of the modern day thais.

Go search up on mongolian invasion of china and how the minorities like the dai escaped china proper from yunan and went down into south east asia.

Surprised you guys don't understand what i mean or doing it on purpose.

go read about this. Aren't they all british regardless if they are english or scottish? Yet this english girl got beaten up in scotland. It's just like a central thai beaten up in issan but you would say aren't they both thais?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1114567/Scars-girl-beaten-English-Scotland.html

This young woman was viciously assaulted in Scotland because she has an English accent.

Lucy Newman, 22, was left with two black eyes and a broken cheekbone after a night out with friends in Aberdeen.

The beauty therapist, who is 5ft 3in tall, said: 'Two guys walked past and shouted something about the English.

'I didn't think it was aimed at me until one of them whacked me right in the face. The next thing I was lying on the ground with blood pouring from my head.'

Miss Newman moved to Scotland with her family when she was four and, 18 years on, has almost lost her English accent.

But she says it still comes through on certain words, leading to endless taunts.

'The English thing doesn't bother me, I'm used to it,' she added. 'But no one has ever gone this far before. Why would they? The guy was obviously a coward.'

It is feared that she might not fully regain sight in her left eye, which was left swollen shut by the attack.

The alleged racist assault happened on busy Union Street, in central Aberdeen, about 2am on Saturday after Miss Newman left a nightclub and was heading to a bus stop with a friend.

Two men walked past and one of them, wearing a hat and scarf, lashed out and punched Lucy in the face. He then calmly walked away, accompanied by his friend, who was wearing a blue shirt.

A good Samaritan chased after the attacker but could not track him down.

Her father Leslie said his daughter was 'unrecognisable' when she arrived at Aberdeen Royal Infirmary in an ambulance.

Doctors will assess this week whether Miss Newman, from Gourdon near Aberdeen, needs facial plastic surgery.

She is due to start a new job as a nursery play assistant as soon as a disclosure check is completed - and hopes the severe bruising will have faded by then.

Her distraught mother Susan, 47, said: 'Lucy is tiny. I just can't believe somebody, especially a man, could do something like this to such a lovely and quiet girl.

'There is no reason why one person should attack another. But a man punching a young woman is inexcusable.'

Grampian Police, who have been unable to locate CCTV footage of the attack, said such incidents were not uncommon.

'Whilst this is clearly a despicable act, it is still unfortunately not uncommon for racially motivated incidents to take place,' Sergeant David Forsyth said

In before some self righteous farang says all thais don't care about you and ignore the fact that ppl from their countries do the same thing too.

I can only speak for the UK and i can tell you that nobody would take a child out somewhere without informing and getting permission from the parent or guardian. To do so would be considered as kidnapping!

Please give examples of the countries that people take children out without informing the parents or guardian where it would be considered normal or acceptable.

The uncle is a family member and thus is considered a guardian in fact they are related closer compared to the likes of you.

It was just an oversight on the part of the uncle and you can teach your step daughter to inform you to do so in future. Sometimes ppl forget and as for the UK well would you actually consider a relative or friend as kidnapping your child or do you mean to tell me you have grounds to report it as a kidnapping? The fact of the matter is you can always call the police in the UK to tell them your child wasn't actually kidnapped and it was just someone else that took her/him out and the police will just let the matter rest. Sure they have ppl calling them about a mistaken kidnapping before.

In before some self righteous farang says all thais don't care about you and ignore the fact that ppl from their countries do the same thing too.

Well you know it happens in every country in the world.

Let's take the UK. The english are like the top dogs in british society with the irish below and i heard of english girls being abused when they were in scotland and so on.

So this also occurs in thai society. For an outsider he would probably say the issan brown skinned folk are like lower down the hierachy compared to the central thais but it really isn't that simple is it? Central thais can be pretty tanned too and some aren't natural thais but chinese thai but not all fair skinned thais are chinese, yes this is obvious cos not all oriental looking ppl are chinese,korea,japanese etc.

I hear there are thailand is divided into 4 major regions. The north, central, northeast and the south.

I hear that the central region of thailand is where most of the power and wealth is concentrated not surprisingly the capital is located there. I understand that the original thais came from china and they look chinese from yunan province and they managed to spread their thai culture to the entire thailand and u know along the time line things were adopted were borrowing cambodian culture, the adoption of thai writing system from some sanskrit stuff like that.

Could we have some discussion on this.

....

I am staying at amanta resorts at ratchada area. They have airport transfer but it costs 1000bht.

Not worth it IMHO. Even a taxi meter can get you there for less than 300 baht + the airport fee.

As I mentioned in my response to your post asking about the Amanta; if you take the Airport Express to Makkasan (90 baht) and then get a cab, you will be at the Amanta pretty much within 2 clicks of the taxi's meter, around 45 baht. Fastest I ever managed was deplane at 21:00 and in my suite at 21:40 (no checked bags).

Since the Express service is less frequent these days, you can take the alternate 'slow' one and get off there anyway. Also, the taxis don't come to Makkasan much unless they are dropping off but last time I used the airport train, they had a shuttle bus (big golf car) that would run you up to Ratchada and the MRT access then you can get a cab for 38 baht, or use the MRT.

There may even be a better, covered connection between Makkasan and the MRT now as I recall a thread detailing the construction of such.

Is the airport express a bus or something?

Honestly i would rather some convinence even if i wasn't going to pay 1000bht or around those prices from the limo services and of course avoid getting rippped off by taxi drivers.

Honestly getting gear is also one of the reasons why some ppl travel to thailand cos it's cheaper but might not be the authetic one. One such famous on a forum personality by the name of aziz from bodybuillding.com from australia died of a heart attack in a sauna in bkk which is unrelated to the reason as to why he went to thailand to get dat cell tech.

That's because chinese are a more united race. India isn't. India is just like if the entire europe was a single country. If you care to read about the history of china the emperor qin shi huang destroyed his enemies written languages to unite them with his country that's how china was first united thousands of years ago. if not for that the china of today would be as varied as that of india.

You have to remember india as a country was done by the brits were it not for them india would be like europe.

I think it's more likely due to Mao and his Cultural Revolution which destroyed many of the ancient relics and extirpated ancient customs.

Oh yes that too. Thanks for reminding me of this.

Let me start by saying this. I've been involved in 3 accidents and everytimes, i've been cleared of everything. I'll try to answer as best as I can and my apologize for the mistakes as my main language ain't English. Still, I'll take the time to answer to your questions and, in the eventuality it happens again, you'll know what to do.

There are things you did pretty well. The first one is that you haven't ran away from the scene. The second is that you know the Thai road safety code. The third good thing is that you have all the papers as required by the authority to drive in the kingdom.

There are 2 things you should have done not to be involved in the "farang is wrong" circle. The first one is to get a lawyer right before you and the insurance officer sign the papers at the police station to make sure that:

1- they wrote the report properly

2- the insurance officer wrote his repport properly

Insurances companies in Thailand have a bad reputation when it comes to pay for a car accident and this is caused by their wrong way to write their report. Exemple: they are going to write in Thai that you have for 20000 BAHT in damage on your vehicule but they are going to avoid writing that "it may cost more for unknown damages" the car accident may have caused, or, in the case the lady sue you, to pay for her damages. This said, this is one of the problem you may face pretty soon.

The second thing would have been to take evidence by yourself on the scene. You could have taken photos, videos and witness testifying about what happened over there. Usually, Thai people are not lying when the event just occured. They tend to lie more once they gossip about it with friends and family to make the farang looks "bad".

One more suggestion would be to install a dashcam. Don't forget that we are guests here and we need to do our own safety.

I'm lucky as I have a high rank policeman in my family who likes to teach me about the laws and how to do things in Thailand. I would tell you that it is not about not being welcome here, but all about money. Thais act this way towards Thais and so they act this way too towards foreigners. However, the difference is that Thai people are going to stick together to win over you while the foreigners living in Thailand don't care much about each other. That is the reason why we have such a hard time getting respect here.

One more suggestion: get a lawyer now!

Send me a private message if you have more questions.

Could not agree more, especially your last paragraph. Until All farangs stick together and stop wearing rose tinted glasses this will continue, I 'm not suggesting that we support other farangs when they are obviously in the wrong, but unfortunately some farangs seem to always make excuses and take the side of the Thai, perhaps mistakenly thinking that this will make the Thai's accept them as one Their own.

You're promoting a form of seperation that isn't good at all. It's like how some thais think. All thais should help one another and if this was the case you wouldn't have any thais helping you out.

Btw farangs are so different from one another too. In europe so many different farangs that speak so many different languages.

You have lived here 11 years, and you still refer to yourself as "farang".

On the one hand you complain about being discriminated for being the "other".

And yet, you happily call yourself "farang".

One thing is for sure, if you cant even stop calling yourself "farang" (an object, rather than a human being), how on earth are you going to expect Thais will view you in another way??

The term "farang" doesn't denote an object, it is a mass noun used to identify a person of foreign ancestry the same way we refer to people being african americans.

How would you be able to stop calling yourself an "african american" in case you live in Asia for x number of years...? Are you saying the correct term should be "african american asian".

Brings to mind Tiger Woods home-made definition of himself: "Cablinasian". Apparently he made that up from being Caucasian, Black, American, Native American Indian and Asian or something in that region.

First of all, Thais do not view a "white person", the way most of the rest of us view race.

We, well most of us at least, think, underneath the skin, the main factor that decide how we behave, is based on cultural, national heritage and individuality, NOT primarily skin color (even though, there are minor differences between races).

But for a Thai, skin color is THE most important thing that decides how we behave, much more important than nationality, or culture. This is also the reason, why Thais can never, even for a second, get passed the fact that you have white skin, and that is the most important thing for a Thai to point out.

Apart from accepting that I can't possibly know what a Thai person think (other than the overwhelming Thai majority of my own family whom I can ask) I dont agree with your idea that skin colour is THE most important thing. I employed a Thai national who grew up in Europe and didn't speak a word of Thai. Every single person who met him initially believed he spoke Thai because of his appearance. Despite his apparent Thai appearance, he was referred to as farang wherever he went when people realised he was a foreigner.

My perception is that Thais use the farang to denote a foreigner not someone with white skin.

Wait that thai person grew up in europe so suffice to say he spoke with a european accent correct?

Honestly non western foreigners like africans, japanese, koreans, chinese aren't ever referred to as farang. When someone says farang he thinks blond hair and blue eyes he won't think of a japanese or a negro.

Meanwhile in other parts of the world like the US. Farangs met a farang that grew up in HK so he didn't really speak english at all but they all spoke to him in english and assumed this farang that grew up in HK could speak english as good as them.

A few expats in that area and almost zero western tourists. It is popular with Chinese and Japanese tourists however. Sukhumvit is a 10 - 15 minute train ride away if you want it. There is a lot of great value accomodation (both short and long term) at less than half the price of something comparable on Sukhumvit. The thai food in that area is way better than sukhumvit. The nightlife there is not aimed at westerners but it does exist and can be interesting. If you want to drink imported beer at a faux British pub, you won't find anything like that on Ratchada. Plenty of shopping on Ratchada without the crowds and hassles of sukhumvit.

may i know why so few western expats hate the area?

Not all Thais assume a Thai girl is a prostitute if she is with a farang. However, the Thais can definitely tell who is a hooker and who isn't. If your darling is a dark skinned Isaan girl who wears garish makeup, is crude, has tattoos, speaks fluent English, and has no education--well, you don't have to be a brain surgeon to figure it out.

I have dated bargirls, and professional women (a nurse, an office manager, and teacher), and the Thais can tell who is who.

That said, even when I was with a bargirl, I was never treated badly. I speak Thai and Isaan and can overhear most conversations. The only bad thing I ever heard was a regular girl lamenting that all the farangs go out with bargirls. She was venting her frustration to one of her friends. At the same time, I was treated with an odd form of respect--hard to understand it but it is something like--I am taking care of the poor girl from the village and she is lucky to have me for that.

Personally, I could care less what people think. I took my LBFM to museums, and other cultural events and spoke with professors who were more than polite to our face at least. I get the feeling that they think I am a dirt bag anyway so what does it matter? When I brought an American born Thai girl to a bar in BKK when we traveled together--the bargirls were embarassed and wondered why I brought such a nice lady to a bar like that. The bargirls have zero self worth and it showed when they were around a woman from a less checkered background.

At the end of the day--it's your life. The Thais aren't paying your bills--you are.

Try walking around with a ladyboy in tow someday if you really want people gawk.

Why is such a nice, good looking, educated man with a low class woman?

Do you really care?

seriously you are a nice good looking educated person? so why were you with a thai bargirl?

Where is the irony that the OP writes about in his headline?

The irony that thais look down on women working as prostitutes and the most visible one is the farang with the thai girl after all they cannot tell if it's a local thai man with a hooker for example and how so many thai women see working as one as a viable option yet they are taught by family and all that it's no good and it's shameful yet so many work as one.

This is melodramatic overreaction. The numerous recent events are more likely examples of a journalistic trend rather than a rising crime trend. India is a vast country with more than a billion people. To focus on a few events demonstrates an ignorance of large numbers.

A bad case of Delhi Belly can happen anywhere in the world. In my 18 visits to India I have only once had diarrhea. Properly treated it was gone in 24 hours. I have been sicker eating oysters in France (Paris Belly) and the UK (Manchester Belly).

India is crowded, dilapidated, filthy and noisy and I would respect the opinion of anyone who said they would never go there again for these reasons. But it is also one of the richest cultural experiences that the planet has to offer. It is the only extant ancient civilization. It is teeming with colour, rhythm and history. To attempt to dissuade anyone from visiting India by reason of a few journalistic sensations and a belly ache is tendentious and irresponsible.

i can bet somehow you wouldn't say the same thing about their neighbour china even though they have an equally old civilization and the place is more modern but they don;t look as caucasian.

You're right. Nothing to do with looking Caucasian. China's ancient civilization is no longer extant except, perhaps, for the written language. It's a cultural moonscape compared to India.

That's because chinese are a more united race. India isn't. India is just like if the entire europe was a single country. If you care to read about the history of china the emperor qin shi huang destroyed his enemies written languages to unite them with his country that's how china was first united thousands of years ago. if not for that the china of today would be as varied as that of india.

You have to remember india as a country was done by the brits were it not for them india would be like europe.

Best is if you find a Hotel via AGODA or SAWASDEE etc. if there is not written if airport transfer is free or on charge do as I do, go direct to the Hotel WEB and check it. Have many hotels around Suvarnabhumi which offer free transport.

Also it depend often how many night you stay in hotel. Around airport 1 night is okay, if you go to down town they ask 2 or more nights stay.

Anyway I made bad experiences with the booking WEB as AGODA, even if I ask for airport transfer often NOBODY wait me at airport. So I check first Hotel direct, after I book hotel via AGODA etc and after I send a copy of my voucher to the hotel with the request to pick me up. This works better but also not 100% sure in Thailand width=20 alt=wai2.gif>

Yup even if you booked all of this on agoda or who knows directly with the hotel's website you should still call. I always call directly after making a booking to make sure.

Two things here......firstly WHERE do you want to stay, what area? Near airport or in the city etc?

Secondly some or maybe many that offer airport transfer from hotels will be by there own limo or exec car and thats why the price will be more. A taxi is usually around 250 baht from airport to downtown bangkok. Do not forget there is a 50 baht additional surcharge fee from airport.

Some free transfers from hotels near the airoort use minivans.

If you give a little more info we can give more accurate response.

I am staying at amanta resorts at ratchada area. They have airport transfer but it costs 1000bht.

A few expats in that area and almost zero western tourists. It is popular with Chinese and Japanese tourists however. Sukhumvit is a 10 - 15 minute train ride away if you want it. There is a lot of great value accomodation (both short and long term) at less than half the price of something comparable on Sukhumvit. The thai food in that area is way better than sukhumvit. The nightlife there is not aimed at westerners but it does exist and can be interesting. If you want to drink imported beer at a faux British pub, you won't find anything like that on Ratchada. Plenty of shopping on Ratchada without the crowds and hassles of sukhumvit.

thanks for this input. Appreciate it but you know what pisses me off is that i told a few thai friends that i was staying in ratchada area and they told me oh so you stay there cos you want to go to those massage places as if implying the entire ratchada area is like one big brothel with nothing else but massage places while sukhumvit didn't have those things and like you couldn't simply take a taxi/train to those massage places if you stayed elsewhere.

Anyone know if Thailand is on the list of the 40 countries? Or when it will actually come into effect?

My wife and I have flights booked to India for late December. I picked up a 10 year multi-entry visa in the US a few years ago, but it would be great if she didn't have to deal with getting a visa.

I hope you have a couple of Armed Guards to accompany you and protect your wife.

I've been to India several times in years gone by to write and produce Travel stories for newspapers, radio and t.v. I enjoyed some parts of it, although nearly "died" on a bloody awful trekking expedition and despite my love of Indian Food, I came home with a very bad case of Delhi Belly.

In light of numerous recent events involving rape and murder and the lack of any serious action by the Indian Authorities, I think INDIA is, at the moment, one of the Last Places on Earth to take your wife.

This is melodramatic overreaction. The numerous recent events are more likely examples of a journalistic trend rather than a rising crime trend. India is a vast country with more than a billion people. To focus on a few events demonstrates an ignorance of large numbers.

A bad case of Delhi Belly can happen anywhere in the world. In my 18 visits to India I have only once had diarrhea. Properly treated it was gone in 24 hours. I have been sicker eating oysters in France (Paris Belly) and the UK (Manchester Belly).

India is crowded, dilapidated, filthy and noisy and I would respect the opinion of anyone who said they would never go there again for these reasons. But it is also one of the richest cultural experiences that the planet has to offer. It is the only extant ancient civilization. It is teeming with colour, rhythm and history. To attempt to dissuade anyone from visiting India by reason of a few journalistic sensations and a belly ache is tendentious and irresponsible.

i can bet somehow you wouldn't say the same thing about their neighbour china even though they have an equally old civilization and the place is more modern but they don;t look as caucasian.

Actually if they have free airport transfer they would mention it but agoda either doesn't report it.

Here's the thing. Most tourists to bkk or thailand would use the websites dedicated to hotels like agoda, expedia and so on.

Let's not forget there are like 700 over hotels in bkk alone now obviously some of these tourists are going to get ripped off.

Anyway i book my hotels mostly throught agoda so far never seen them talk about airport transfer costs but assume that would cost you 500-1000 bht or more. Cheaper to just take a taxi with the forigner prices unless you go with a thai friend or speak thai well enough to negotiate.

Actually i feel that as a foreigner you deserve to just get ripped off.

U see i called my hotel to ask about airport to hotel prices and she quoted me some very expensive price and told me you can just take a taxi and quoted me 300-400 THAI bht from swampy to ratchada area i instantly knew those were foreigner prices cos it doesn't cost 300-400 bht to travel from ratchada to the airport or vice versa. It's not that far for the meter to quote those prices.

Yes aside from those damn massage places there and hway kwang is there anything else? How does it compare to sukhumvit?

At times like this I always reflect on the words of the famous Thai Philosopher ...... Eh? Free thinker..... Eh? Astrologer ... Eh Physicist ... Eh Mathematician ... Eh? Inventor ... Eh? ? Dramatist? Film Producer ... Eh? Human Rights activist ... Eh? Suzy Wong who said you can beat an egg but you cant beat a 8ank. Even she was a fictional character from Hong Kong?

So there are no thai film producers, human rights activists, astrologers, physicists, mathematicians, inventors, philosophers around?

Actually i don't know of any western human rights activists i have decided to come to the conclusion that they don't exist. The rest i know of in the western world but i think some thais don't know of their existence so they don't exist in the western world.